Harmonix Don't disappoint

[elliott4179]

I just wanted to say that I have played GH3 now for the past 3 days [yes I got it early, don't ask me how] and that I am very disappointed. It is very evident that you guys were the driving force behind the success of guitar hero. The note charts on half of the songs are terrible. You can definately tell that they hired some people from scorehero who made custom songs. Some songs are missing notes, some songs don't feel right, and some songs are just basically unplayable because of the unrealistic 3 button chords just jammed into the later tier songs. I can honestly say that they are not fun at all. They turned possible into the impossible. And no I don't need practice, I am ranked in the top 1000 on scorehero. I was anticipating rockband more than gh3 before I played it. Now I need rockband to show me how it was suppossed to be done. I'm sure you guys will do great. So if anybody was on the fence about gh3 or rockband, I would recommend you rent gh3 before you buy it. There is just no way that rockband can be half this bad.

[afroduck]

Heh, and I was hoping the demo felt off just because it was the demo. Not surprising though as I knew HMX was the driving force behind the series anyway. I'm just hoping at this point there are enough semi-decent note charts to tide me over until the 20th.

[RkBndDrmr]

I haven't played GH3 yet, but got the same impression from watching the full song videos. After watching a few I just kind of thought "what did they do??!"

Half my enjoyment of playing the past GH games was listening to the music as I played and the songs just felt right Which BTW is why I'm not looking forward to Battle Mode, I want to play the song not destroy it.

I like the volume at 11, not the difficulty. The heart and soul of HMX lives on in RB.

[hardyfoster]

i got flamed for giving my review of gh3 earlier. though it was from a demo and i played 2 songs on hard, i knew they made the notecharts different.

everything else about the game was fine. looked great, sounded great, but the note charts suck.

i know what they did. they made the note charts based on "pitch"
harmonix made the note charts based on the "feel" of playing the guitar.

I tend to play by ear and with gh1 and gh2 i could easily do that. on gh3 the placement of the notes and how it would feel on a real guitar wasn't there. to a casual gamer, i don't know if they'll notice a difference, but i did and obviously the guy above did.

plus they ruined "good girl" judy nails and made her a slut.

i wouldn't worry, harmonix has never had a disappointing game. except for the fact that they didn't make eyetoy antigrav 2. (i know, i'm beating dead subject for all these years hmx, great game!)

[axe990]

its seems like people who are saying "OMG GH3 PWNS!" are the gamer type ppl, who dont really care as much about music as they do about difficulty. And Rock Band people actually appreciate music and fun. Just seems that way...

[Rook_x51]

its seems like people who are saying "OMG GH3 PWNS!" are the gamer type ppl, who dont really care as much about music as they do about difficulty. And Rock Band people actually appreciate music and fun. Just seems that way...

Give it time. Even the hardcore GH fans will rebel against these charts. I like to consider myself a pretty hardcore music rhythm fan (between DDR, KR and GH I log about 20 hours a week) and I played all the songs on the GH3 demo... it's not good. I felt so detached from the song I just couldn't take the time to continue playing.

Very disappointing :(

[Paakaa10]

I played the demo for Guitar Hero 3 on my buddy's 360 yesterday (I have a PS3 and, with my PS2 at home, it's been slim picking for guitar games) for the first time. I don't know if it was because I was rusty, because I'm unfamiliar with the X-plorer controller, or because Guitar Hero 3 has somehow messed with the system of how I play the game, but I failed "Even Flow" and "Rock You Like A Hurricane" on Expert charts that really weren't even that difficult because the game was registering over-strums and claiming I missed notes that I felt I'd hit. If it's for either of the first two reasons that I was struggling then that's fine, but if it's because (as many have been saying) the core gameplay has been changed, then that'll be really disappointing when I go pick up the game tomorrow night.

It's bad enough that the venue environments are sterile and that the band has no personality outside of the character you choose to play as (and even they spend most of the song just kind of standing around strumming, even during the most thrashing sections--yes, yes, this is a similar criticism of GH 1 or 2, but this has been changed mightily in Rock Band from every video we've ever seen). I'll say that I love seeing what the game can look like in 60 fps and HD, particularly after playing Guitar Hero solely on the PS2 before this, but I would rather the game look muddy and play like I remember then have a nice glob of polish on something I can't enjoy.

We'll see how it goes. I'm looking at using the Les Paul controller for Rock Band until the Strats get single release, but if the game is a disappointment and can't last the next few weeks, that part of it might be going back to the store. While I haven't played Rock Band personally and likely won't until the release date, I have the utmost faith and respect in Harmonix to get the job done right, versus a developer known more for a stagnant skateboarding series similarly outdone by a new EA production.

[Rook_x51]

I played the demo for Guitar Hero 3 on my buddy's 360 yesterday (I have a PS3 and, with my PS2 at home, it's been slim picking for guitar games) for the first time. I don't know if it was because I was rusty, because I'm unfamiliar with the X-plorer controller, or because Guitar Hero 3 has somehow messed with the system of how I play the game, but I failed "Even Flow" and "Rock You Like A Hurricane" on Expert charts that really weren't even that difficult because the game was registering over-strums and claiming I missed notes that I felt I'd hit. .

I think it's a different issue entirely. It has to do with the feel of the note chart. I never realized how important that was before the demo came out.

If you want to see how bad it is, head over to any GH3 forum. No doubt there is discussions on it right now.

[MartyMcFly]

I have to agree with everything said here. Even though I've only been playing the demo. But the songs just don't seem right. I thought it was just me.

I seriously thought about it for a good 10 minutes, and I've decided to cancel my pre-order for GHIII. I have Gamefly, so I'll just rent it, hold onto for less than a month till Rock Band comes out.

Essentially I'll be paying $15 (monthly fee for Gamefly) and I'll have GH3 for as long as I want, then send it back.

I took the time to go over the entire track list (which I don't like to do, because I wanted to wait till I played to know the songs) but I had to make sure it would have a high replay value for myself.

After really looking at only 5 songs that I would actually want to constantly play, I decided it's not worth $60 (I never planned on getting the guitar either).

I'll save $45 and just put it to Rock Band, because that's the game I'll be playing for the next 2 yrs AT LEAST. HMX will not disappoint, I have full faith in it.

[hardyfoster]

neversoft, if you do any more guitar heros' hire some musicians to do the note chart for how it would "feel" on the guitar

instead of just placing notes by pitch. i can tell that's what you did.

[Cr1ckt]

For the most part, the songs on the demo don't inflate the difficulty. The notes in GHIII were designed to feel more like guitar (look at the opening riff of Paranoid). Previous games went by pitch, hardyfoster. If you're playing by ear, then you would be playing by the pitch before, not by how it would feel on guitar.

I understand that the wider window for HO/PO timing makes GHIII feel less like music, but people are being overdramatic about the difference it makes. Even Flow is one of my favorite songs to play in the series yet.

I will be buying both games. Both have excellent songs, and both will be enjoyable for me. That being said, I do think Rock Band will trump Guitar Hero III in almost every way; I just don't think Guitar Hero III was a disaster. If you don't like the challenge (which isn't that bad; I've already FC'd most of the demo songs) then maybe Guitar Hero isn't for you. That's cool; I still look forward to playing Rock Band with all you guys online come November.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Well....This is really what I don't want to hear! I knew it was a bad idea for Neversoft to take over. I still want to get it though. I've been a huge fan ever since it came out and still feel like I need this game to add to my already vast GH collection.

[hardyfoster]

well, we'll have to agree to disagree.

i can tell from hearing what type of chord it should be. whether it's a 12 or 3-5 or 1-5

in rock you like a hurricane some of the powerchords weren't powerchords and some of the single notes should have been chords. i'm not a musical snob, it's just something i can hear. some of the double notes shouldn't have been double notes.

way back when when i was about 16, i would listen to songs to figure out the chords and i got really good at it.

with gh1, gh2, i was amazed how much it felt like i was playing a guitar. on gh3, it didn't feel that way and it threw me off quite a bit. i have to pay more attention to the notechart to get it right than i do just hearing it and using the note chart as a guide. i never relied on the note chart that heavily.

hmx didn't make the note chart solely by pitch like gh3 is done. i can tell.

[stiper327b]

When it was first announced that Neversoft would be taking over the development duties on GHIII, I made a post on the GH forums where I basically said I was worried about the franchise now that programmers were making the game rather than musician programmers. I was afraid that the soul of the game would be lost. I knew that most of the HMX folks were either in bands or had a burning and abiding passion for music. They knew, mostly by first hand, what it felt like to not only play these songs on a real guitar, but also what it felt like to be up on stage, with thousands of fans cheering (or booing, as the case may be) your every move. They knew what it felt like to hit the perfect chord at the perfect moment for the perfect result. They knew what playing live music was like, and against all odds they managed to capture that feeling in GHI and II (especially I), and look to do the same in Rock Band.

I just didn't know if a bunch of programmers could adequately relate to that feeling, let alone capture it. I'm sure they love music too, but do they know what it's like to play music? Do they know what it's like to devote every ounce of your free time to creating and performing music?

Case in point: The bonus songs on GHI and II were made up of many bands consisting of HMX employees, especially on I. How many Neversoft bands appear in the bonus section of GHIII?

I've been a devoted Rock Band follower since before E3, but I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Guitar Hero. Too many nights of sleep were lost to those games, I couldn't simply turn my back so easily. And even though I saw all the writing on the wall (why did they give the lead singer's jaws the surface area of a Wyoming cattle ranch? Why bring in go-go dancers?), I still held out hope.

But now, now I think it's just time to move on. I've seen the videos, I've played the demo, and it just isn't there. I don't want to be forced to play Battle Mode in the career progression. I don't want to listen to three crappy metal songs in a row as I play through. I don't want to see everything slutted up for no reason other than to get more pre-teen boys to play the game.

I want to play a music game made by people who love music, who cherish music, but most importantly, who know music.

[vtjustinb]

I guess I have to play devil's advocate here.

The note charts are a little screwy. There's no denying that. But not every note chart in GH1/2 was perfect either, so I don't know if we're holding 3 to some kind of idealistic standard we didn't hold 1/2 to.

The big thing for me with GH3 is I can play a rhythm and not get screwed for it. Which is to say, I can play the actual rhythm of how the notes relate to the song and I hit the notes everytime. For someone like me who has a lot of marching percussion experience and a pretty precise sense of timing that's been monumental. I'm not sure if that's just a change in the timing window, a change calibrating HD lag with my DLP, or a change in the engine but that's a huge positive for me. I was able to nail expert out of the gate for that fact alone, not really that I'm all that good (never got my log).

I can't really attest to the "authenticity" of the note charts in relation to playing the real part. It did seem like it felt more like a fun rhythm game than a guitar simulator, which may or may not be its aim, but you can definitely feel HMX missing in GH3. I'm just not sure that alone is enough to discredit the entire game. It has some great tracks, a lot of fun features, and I've been generally impressed with the engine for it being a scratch effort.

[bounchfx]

I'm having fun with it, but no, it's just not the same.

[Electric_Zen]

I did not come here to bury GH3, and I hate to pile on. But after playing through the demo, I also decided to take GH3 off my purchase list.

It did feel mechanical and uninspired. Even little touches like the loading screens were so poorly written that they take you out of the experience a little.

If I had to point to a single example of where this game has gone wrong, it would be the HO-PO window. By widening the window, they increase the number of insane notes that can be played together at the expense of rhythm. This is the prioritization of button-mashing over music.

I have not touched the battle mode, which has horrified me from the beginning. In GH4, are you going to play as Master Chief, blasting Covenant by nailing streams of chords? What does this have to do with music?

The main reasons I was looking forward to this game are One and Paint It, Black. Right now, I think I'm just going to have to wait for One to make its way as Rock Band DLC.

[hardyfoster]

time to break out umjammer lammy until rock band comes out !

[Nilsen31]

online play

wireless guitar

new songs

achievments

it's guitar hero


So even if they messed it up, I'll still get it, all it has to do is hold me over til Nov 20th.


Plus, Call of Duty 4, Assassin's Creed, Smackdown are coming out between now and the 20th!!

[Hendrixx]

Don't get me started on the whole issue of strumming problems... we've discussed it in another thread... that sucked the rock out of GH3.

[McDeezy]

I have not touched the battle mode, which has horrified me from the beginning. In GH4, are you going to play as Master Chief, blasting Covenant by nailing streams of chords? What does this have to do with music?

I think they just made it more of a game. They aren't thinking of the music. They are thinking how can we make it more competitive.

[Maherj]

Very sad post indeed.

Here's hoping MTV somehow steals the GH franchise...

[ImUrDaddy]

Well I guess I should prepare to get flamed here...

I played the demo and I liked it a lot. Maybe because I could never get the lag quite right with GH2 or maybe I just like the HOPOs better. MAybe it was just nice to have new music. But I have been playing music for a long time and have a good sense of rythm but I just couldn't nail GH2 fast HOPOS just right. I have 5 stars on most items but definitely not all. On GH3 I can get the every time.

Maybe I also just like the original master tracks better too (evenflow rocks). In any case, I am still think RB will easily pound GH3, but I think GH3 was a bit easier for me to play than GH2. I have never played real guitar before GH2 so maybe the new notes charts feel more natural to non-guitar players.

(with that being said I did go buy a cheap fender a few weeks ago and adding guitar to my skills. Maybe I can play a greenday song in a year! Yeah I'm a poser, what are you going to do about it.:D )

[MartyMcFly]

If I had to point to a single example of where this game has gone wrong, it would be the HO-PO window. By widening the window, they increase the number of insane notes that can be played together at the expense of rhythm. This is the prioritization of button-mashing over music.


This is an excellent point! I've been trying to think of how explain it. But it seriously is button mashing!! I never thought of putting it that way.

A perfect example is the Rock You Like A Hurricane solo. It just seems to lose it's flow (not the sound obviously, just the notes) They eventually seem out of order, and you're just throwing your fingers all over the buttons.

Compare that to the solo in Hangar 18, where you can actually feel it as if you're hitting the notes for real. I dunno, it just seems crazy.

[DJ_J_Positive]

i got flamed for giving my review of gh3 earlier. though it was from a demo and i played 2 songs on hard, i knew they made the notecharts different.

everything else about the game was fine. looked great, sounded great, but the note charts suck.

i know what they did. they made the note charts based on "pitch"
harmonix made the note charts based on the "feel" of playing the guitar.

I tend to play by ear and with gh1 and gh2 i could easily do that. on gh3 the placement of the notes and how it would feel on a real guitar wasn't there. to a casual gamer, i don't know if they'll notice a difference, but i did and obviously the guy above did.

plus they ruined "good girl" judy nails and made her a slut.

i wouldn't worry, harmonix has never had a disappointing game. except for the fact that they didn't make eyetoy antigrav 2. (i know, i'm beating dead subject for all these years hmx, great game!)


What, you don't like sluts?:rolleyes: Lol, I didn't mind them turning Judy into a whore (chicks with pink hair always are:D ) but when I was playing the GH3 demo all I could think of was Rock Band. I don't want to waste my money on GH3 so I'll just steal it or something so I'll have more money to get the RB Bundle.:cool:

[DJ_J_Positive]

Well I guess I should prepare to get flamed here...

I played the demo and I liked it a lot. Maybe because I could never get the lag quite right with GH2 or maybe I just like the HOPOs better. MAybe it was just nice to have new music. But I have been playing music for a long time and have a good sense of rythm but I just couldn't nail GH2 fast HOPOS just right. I have 5 stars on most items but definitely not all. On GH3 I can get the every time.

Maybe I also just like the original master tracks better too (evenflow rocks). In any case, I am still think RB will easily pound GH3, but I think GH3 was a bit easier for me to play than GH2. I have never played real guitar before GH2 so maybe the new notes charts feel more natural to non-guitar players.

(with that being said I did go buy a cheap fender a few weeks ago and adding guitar to my skills. Maybe I can play a greenday song in a year! Yeah I'm a poser, what are you going to do about it.:D )
YOU YOU FLAMING POSER! LOL Just playing man. So has playing GH help you play a real guitar?

[AVC808]

it's great that although the game is getting poor reviews, the reviews are backed up in a civil manner and not just in a RB fanboy fashion. i only hope GH fanboys dont show up to "defend" their favorite game and turn this place into a flaming warzone.

for those of you that are still planning to buy both games, do you think switching between games will throw your timing off? or is everyone planning to be done w/ the first game before RB comes out?

i personally never intended to purchase GH. i probably would have considered it later if everyone here raved about it, but so far it looks like i'll be fine with just RB :)

[mxmarks]

Yeah - I was GOING to buy GH3, but I played the demo, and due to a lot of things I won't re-hash, cancelled my pre-order. Such is life.

And honestly, if I play a Rock Band demo and have the same experience that I got when I played GH3, I won't buy Rock Band either! But I HIGHLY doubt that will be the case.

Thats why I like this board - people who have enjoied GH3 have let us know in a respectful manner, and those who don't have been equally mature. Hey - we're all dealing with potentially future band mates, so it works out great!

And as a total aside...I think even if RO and Harmonix never split, Rock Band would have been the next Harmonix project anyway...it was just time for them to finally do what GH1 and 2 were preparing them for...

[ManOwaR]

This post is very eye opening. thanks.

[MartyMcFly]

This post is very eye opening. thanks.

New member! ....perhaps we're stealing you from the darkside (that other game..) :)

[ImUrDaddy]

YOU YOU FLAMING POSER! LOL Just playing man. So has playing GH help you play a real guitar?

Actually yes. Guitar was one of those intruments I tried once a long time ago and got dissapointed really quickly. I never thought I would have the hand dexterity to play it well. Now after playing guitar hero for a few months, my left hand has done things it has never done before.:cool:

So this time around playing guitar I can already change some basic chords and not have it sound too sloppy after two weeks. I can almost play good riddance, glycerine and heart shaped box. The wrong way of course.

Now my wife is letting me get a drum kit again as long as its small and silent... So Roland HD-1 lite here I come!

[Shredder]

Am I the only person here who thinks GHIII will be awesome? I played the demo and didn't experience any of the problems reported here. I hit all the notes just fine; the timing feels easier if anything. The notecharts were also extremely fun, especially for The Metal and Lay Down. The unwarranted GHIII bashing needs to stop.

[Electric_Zen]

The unwarranted GHIII bashing needs to stop.

I haven't seen any unwarranted GH3 bashing here. I expressed my personal opinion on why I decided not to get the game, but I'm certainly not trying to persuade anyone else not to buy it.

A lot of people are going to buy and enjoy GH3, and I think that's great. The more people enjoying these music games, the better.

[Paakaa10]

Am I the only person here who thinks GHIII will be awesome? I played the demo and didn't experience any of the problems reported here. I hit all the notes just fine; the timing feels easier if anything. The notecharts were also extremely fun, especially for The Metal and Lay Down. The unwarranted GHIII bashing needs to stop.

It's not unwarranted if people have legitimate and well-articulated beef with something. Based on my playtime with the demo, I'm worried about a game I've spent $100 on already. Maybe my experience with the full game will change my mind about it, but based on the notecharts I've seen from YouTube videos to this point, I'm not entirely sure about that.

That said, the notechart for "Lay Down" is pretty sweet. My favorite song on the demo. Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't feel like the classic Guitar Hero I enjoyed so much.

[JackBNimble]

If I want to buy a new guitar for my GH2 for Ps2 then it going to cost me about $70.Now I'm going to need 2 guitars for RB for my Ps3 ,so my biggest resone for wanting GH3 isn't the game at all, but for the les Paul.I dont mind spending $100 for GH3 for the game and guitar even if GH3 turns out to be an exspensive coaster for my fine Canadian beer.

[Magnet]

Am I the only person here who thinks GHIII will be awesome? I played the demo and didn't experience any of the problems reported here. I hit all the notes just fine; the timing feels easier if anything. The notecharts were also extremely fun, especially for The Metal and Lay Down. The unwarranted GHIII bashing needs to stop.

The topic creator is just expressing his opinion. He gave his reasons. It's not unwarranted. You're expressing your opinion that GHIII will be awesome. You gave your reasons. That's not unwarranted either. Experiences vary. If you disagree with his opinion, then feel free to counter it like you did just there. But don't say that it's unwarranted and that it needs to stop. Unwarranted bashing would be along the lines of saying that it sucks and telling everyone to never buy it. Instead, this topic outlines what he didn't like about the game and he recommends that people rent it before buying.

There are topics on this board where people express that they may decide not to buy Rock Band because they're having problems with some of features in it. As long as they outline what they don't like, there's no problem with "bashing" on Rock Band here either.

The only problem with this topic I can see is that it's mostly off-topic and would probably be better suited to the General forum.

[Rook_x51]

The only problem with this topic I can see is that it's mostly off-topic and would probably be better suited to the General forum.

The General forum is a dark and scary place. Last time I went there I came out of it with deep emotional scars.

[RkBndDrmr]

If I want to buy a new guitar for my GH2 for Ps2 then it going to cost me about $70.Now I'm going to need 2 guitars for RB for my Ps3 ,so my biggest resone for wanting GH3 isn't the game at all, but for the les Paul.I dont mind spending $100 for GH3 for the game and guitar even if GH3 turns out to be an exspensive coaster for my fine Canadian beer.

That was my plan as well. GH1 and GH2 are on my PS2, so plan was to get GH3 (360) for the bass. I'm not real happy with what I have seen of GH3 so far, but I'm getting it anyway. The game will likely be put down for the last time when RB comes out, but it'll if nothing else kill some time waiting for the 20th to come.

[toymachine]

lame paragraph about how I didn't like GH3 on PS2

how dare you disgrace the proper spelling of my name

[e1duke]

I considered my self a pretty decent expert GH player, ive beaten every song on every game and 5 starred most of the songs on all the GH games. Having said that, I failed THE METAL on GH3 demo atleast 10 times in a row within the first 30 seconds of the song? I dunno if it was lag or what, but I calibrated it and it still felt off, and the note chart doesn't feel like it goes with a real guitar, just like a lot of you are feeling, I have felt the same way the note charts don't "feel" right.