Both Of You! Stop!

[Lambeauleap]

Ok, I'll admit. I have GH3 & Aerosmith for wii, but no RB ($130 for THAT? sorry, not worth it) But I'm not here to Bash RB.
On the GH forums there have been many "RB copied GH" and there has been RB people saying "GH:WT copied RB"

NO ONE COPIED ANYONE!

GH was the 1st Guitar based game to be play at home, and RB was the 1st BAND based game to be played at home.

"But RB took the the main idea of GH"

Yes, but a branch of GH ALSO Helped with RB. RB focused more on the Drums & mic since they were new, but didn't focus enough on the Guitar. Thats where GH comes in.
So you Can't Copy youself.

"But GH took the idea of the insurments"

Wrong-o. GH had been planning a band based game for a while. They are taking their time. RB made a game with the insturments 1st, but they wern't the 1st to think of it.

In the end, no one copied anyone. RB has some serious work to do to compete with GH:WT. But seriously, Don't wait 6 months to release for wii. and then how much you took out of it? It just wasn't worth my money.

So now lets each return to our Forums, and leave each other alone. You try to keep your guys away, and I'll try to keep mine away. GH fanboys will stand by WT, and RB fanboys will stand by RB & RB2.

I have posted my opinion and will be returning to my forum. I will only come on here to check for replies to this topic. I am not here to flame RB, and you RB users shouldn't come to our forums to flame us. The only thing that sets us off is when you come and say GH:WT copied RB. Because NO ONE COPIED ANYONE

[monkeyfish]

Both of these series copied Konami, according to Konami. :)

[Rock_Starman]

Harmonix made GH,GH 2 and GH 80's and Rock Band sooooo yah.

[lpfan4ever]

//flame

But no. Really. I like Rock Band a lot more than GH, but I will admit, Rock Band does kinda owe itself to GH and other games before it. GH also owes itself to Rock Band a bit, as they probably used a couple of their ideas and put it into their peripherals/ gameplay.

There's no saying one or another is better, because you like what you like. I think people who sit around and troll GH/RB forums shouldn't exist, as all these games are here to make us have fun. (And to take all our money :P )

[PacoL250]

Actually yeah, Konami should be kicking and screaming about being copied. :):p

But that's besides the point.

Harmonix made GH, GH 2, and GH: 80s and moved on to RB. Simply put, Activision knew they had a cash cow on their hands and as such GH 3 was given to their internal development studio, Neversoft, to be worked on.

So you could say Neversoft copied Harmonix, but in reality, Activision simply had rights to the GH name. Harmonix simply moved on to different things.

The band idea in regards to these games however, was always Harmonix's idea. We all heard about a band based GH back in the days of GH and GH 2 and at that time, Harmonix was still in charge of the GH franchise.

[RobbySuave]

I think if Rock Band completely tanked and wasn't successful, there wouldn't be a Guitar Hero: World Tour.

[coolcool23]

My $0.02:

If Rock Band isn't released, Activision comes out with Guitar Hero 4: now with more guitar edition, followed up with Guitar Hero 5: Dueling Guitars, followed by Guitar Hero 6: We're running out of Guitar Tracks edition.

As an above poster said, Harmonix DEVELOPED the GH series to begin with, when Activision came in and scooped up the rights to the franchise. It was a cash cow to begin with which means that there was no reason for Activision to go any further than they needed to just release a quick guitar-oriented cash-in every 12 months and call it done.

I also believe it wasn't until after RB was released that you heard about Activision trademarking "Drum Hero" which eventually led to Guitar Hero: Rock Band.

'Nuff said.

[bonethug0108]

Harmonix made GH,GH 2 and GH 80's and Rock Band sooooo yah.

This.

So the NEVERSOFT versions of gh are copying both the hmx versions of gh and rb.

But in the end, who cares. If the games are fun, then they are fun.

[JakeFatal]

actually konami did everything first

[DarkEternal37]

Both Of You! Stop!

http://www.themoa.net/b2evolution/blogs/media/stop1.png

[bonethug0108]

actually konami did everything first

But they did not do it best.:p

[BuRn7 CaK3]

Harmonix made GH,GH 2 and GH 80's and Rock Band sooooo yah.

Yeah Very True. But its just a game, the only thing i find funny is how activision is saying that they are the first to do a band type thing. (I.E. Rock Band)

[Lambeauleap]

//flame
I think people who sit around and troll GH/RB forums shouldn't exist,

:O you dun like trolls? you guys obviously don't have a "7" on your forums. People like 7 teach you to like trolls :D

[Death50]

Rock Band to me wins over GH1-3 for a few different reasons and as someone who has both I'm not just assuming.


Rock Band has create a chracter mode and it is not until now that Guitar Hero finally... adds in Guitar Hero World Tour. How could they not have added this sooner? Then Rock Band has been faithful on weekly downloads with now 200 playable songs while working on Rock Band 2 on the side. So Guitar Hero can't use the excuse that because they been too busy with AH (a total over priced expansion pack waste that only the hardest core of Areosmith fans could enjoy) and Guitar Hero On Tour (do you really need Guitar Hero with you at all times? Seriously...) and Guitar Hero World Tour (someone is taking on more than they can handle). Lastly Rock Band though still somewhat cartoonish does look more realstic in all aspects chracters, stages, guitars, etc. than Guitar Hero which keeps a cartoonish look and feel.

Those are just some things are are big in my eyes but again maybe small to others.

[themadspin]

To be even more precise, Harmonix developed:

Guitar Hero
Guitar Hero II
Karaoke Revolution I, II, III, Party, Country Edition
Then, of course, Rock Band

One could argue that the only place Harmonix didn't pioneer things is in the drum category, but I've played the Mania games by Konami and they don't hold a candle to what Rock Band does.

So Harmonix is pretty much the Oregon of the Oregon trail and Activision and Konami are the settlers hoping to keep their axles from breaking and their wheels from sticking in the mud.

[BBoiBebop]

But they did not do it best.:p

I disagree... For its time, IIDX was (IS) the shiznit! :D

[bonethug0108]

I disagree... For its time, IIDX was (IS) the shiznit! :D

Read what you wrote. For its time.;)

Sure back then it may have been best, but not now.:D

[CENACHAINGANG54]

Actually yeah, Konami should be kicking and screaming about being copied. :):p

But that's besides the point.

Harmonix made GH, GH 2, and GH: 80s and moved on to RB. Simply put, Activision knew they had a cash cow on their hands and as such GH 3 was given to their internal development studio, Neversoft, to be worked on.

So you could say Neversoft copied Harmonix, but in reality, Activision simply had rights to the GH name. Harmonix simply moved on to different things.

The band idea in regards to these games however, was always Harmonix's idea. We all heard about a band based GH back in the days of GH and GH 2 and at that time, Harmonix was still in charge of the GH franchise.

This is very true. I still have the article done with Alex where it was stated that they have always wanted to do something like Rock Band, but wanted it to be right. By giving GH to Activision, it allowed them to concentrate on RB and take the music gaming world to a new level.

Not to add to the fight, but Activision owes HMX as you cannot copy yourself, and the makers of that game is who gave you RB.

[dman7529]

Seriously people, learn your Harmonix history!

You are right, the people that made Guitar Hero 1, Guitar Hero 2, and Guitar Hero: 80's (thats Harmonix for those that didn't know), had been thinking of creating a full band game. They (Harmonix) even created the Karaoke Revolution game (KR1, KR2, and KR3 for sure), which was published by Konami. This is how they (Harmonix) had the vocal engine, which they "improved" upon by including the talky-parts and percussion notes (tambourines and cow-bells). When they split ties with Konami, Konami had the engine for creating the other Karaoke Revolution games (which hasn't changed much since KR1), as well as the name.

When Harmonix was bought by Viacom/MTV, they (Harmonix), probably gave Neversoft/Activision the basic engine they had used for GH1, GH2, and GH:80's, as well as the name (big mistake IMHO). (I wish they (Harmonix) could've kept the circle gems, because I still have a problem discerning hopo-able rectangles...)

Now you have Activision/Neversoft trying to enter the full-band rhythm game sub-genre, without perfecting their guitar game first! Do I think they (Activision/Neversoft) copied Harmonix. I don't know, because I have yet to see any gameplay footage of GH:WT. I do think they're jumping onto the full-bandwagon :p rather quickly though...

There's also apparently a full-band game coming from Konami! Now while Konami did come out with Guitar Freaks and DrumMania before Rock Band, they do not have a proven record with either game outside of Japan (someone correct me if I'm wrong here please). Besides, the mechanics of these games are different enough. First of all, they (DrumMania and GuitarFreaks) are arcade games. As far DrumMania, they have 3 pads, 2 cymbals, and kick-pedal, which the GH:WT drum set reminds me of... As far as Guitar Freaks, the guitars only have 3, yes 3, buttons.

As far as Konami's claim, if they do win, which will be a sad day in this wonderful genre, then they will have lost a KR fan. My girlfriend and I will be sending them all of our KR game cd's, and a note asking for the $120+ back for all of the DLC we bought for KR American Idol Encore..

Next thing, we will see is Activision/Neversoft suing Harmonix for "stealing" their ideas...

/soapbox

[Phil Manutz]

Yeah Very True. But its just a game, the only thing i find funny is how activision is saying that they are the first to do a band type thing. (I.E. Rock Band)

ok, I wish people would stop making this comment, it was very obvious that he meant that statement in regard to the guitar hero franchise, since they were on stage to talk about guitar hero, he shouldn't have had to say that he meant guitar hero. it's a given. the interviewer was just busting his balls. it was funny sure, but it was also a tad disrespectful to him and activision/neversoft.

[Death50]

ok, I wish people would stop making this comment, it was very obvious that he meant that statement in regard to the guitar hero franchise, since they were on stage to talk about guitar hero, he shouldn't have had to say that he meant guitar hero. it's a given. the interviewer was just busting his balls. it was funny sure, but it was also a tad disrespectful to him and activision/neversoft.


No it's not obvious (even if it is) people should keep bring it up, why? Because it was a stupid and embarssing thing to say and the lesson needs to be thought; and that lesson is to be more careful with your choice of words... in an interview.

Just saying look at it this way if Harmonix said "we were the first to use the song Number of the Beast." Well I'm sure all the GH fans wouldn't lay it to rest but it's rather obvious they ment use it as DLC right?

Lesson learned.

[Ultimatum]

Ok, I'll admit. I have GH3 & Aerosmith for wii, but no RB ($130 for THAT? sorry, not worth it) But I'm not here to Bash RB.
On the GH forums there have been many "RB copied GH" and there has been RB people saying "GH:WT copied RB"

NO ONE COPIED ANYONE!

GH was the 1st Guitar based game to be play at home, and RB was the 1st BAND based game to be played at home.

"But RB took the the main idea of GH"

Yes, but a branch of GH ALSO Helped with RB. RB focused more on the Drums & mic since they were new, but didn't focus enough on the Guitar. Thats where GH comes in.
So you Can't Copy youself.

"But GH took the idea of the insurments"

Wrong-o. GH had been planning a band based game for a while. They are taking their time. RB made a game with the insturments 1st, but they wern't the 1st to think of it.

In the end, no one copied anyone. RB has some serious work to do to compete with GH:WT. But seriously, Don't wait 6 months to release for wii. and then how much you took out of it? It just wasn't worth my money.

So now lets each return to our Forums, and leave each other alone. You try to keep your guys away, and I'll try to keep mine away. GH fanboys will stand by WT, and RB fanboys will stand by RB & RB2.

I have posted my opinion and will be returning to my forum. I will only come on here to check for replies to this topic. I am not here to flame RB, and you RB users shouldn't come to our forums to flame us. The only thing that sets us off is when you come and say GH:WT copied RB. Because NO ONE COPIED ANYONE

It's not the publisher's job to come up with new ideas, that's the developers. The ideas circling around Activision were either already stated by HMX employees, or were just part of a natural evolution.

[Xerosnake90]

This thread is FULL OF WIN!!!

[themadspin]

really, i didnt know hmx 'pioneered' guitar based games back in the ps1 era...

y'know thius is exactly why i hate stupid fanboys. very few if any know anything about any damn aspect of games. instead we get threads like this arguing over who invented rhythm games between two companies who didnt invent rhythm games.

My comment on pioneering was mostly in relation to the full band idea. However, the Konami games are at a local Gameworks and they are clunky and awkward. Drawing a picture of a path isn't the same thing as making one.

Also, calling someone stupid is pretty much the intellectual equal to tabloid reporting.

Whether you want to face it or not, Guitar Hero blazed a path that no one else had. So did Karaoke Revolution and now Rock Band. The other guys are giving this thing a try because of what Harmonix was willing to risk. The risk is what makes them pioneering. Some three button guitar that weighs 10 lbs, is tethered to a machine and plays poor covers of midland songs--well, that's not quite the same thing.

Please try to show a little more respect in the future, I promise I'll do the same for you, but it's silly to come into an intellectual debate without any. You'll always sound more credible if you don't sound like the very fanboys you pretend to be attacking.

[Peppino]

Imho GH, GH2, GH80s, RB = Semipro software
GH3 = Really nice game helping kids to say "I'm God"

:D (as usual sorry for my english)

[Death50]

Maybe it's just me but who gives a birds eye (people still say that right?) about the damn history? What is this Video Gaming History Chapter 3 How Music Games Started? Goodness gracious people! At the end of the day will it even matter? Will who made what first effect the darned game?

No it will not.

As far as I'm concerned Hey You Pickachu was the first rhythm game because it had a microphone! You see the argument sounds stupid huh? And has nothing to do with how these games will play does it? No... so let's just drop this crappy Video Game 101 can we please?

[gmagnus]

OP doesn't know HMX made GH and RB.

" "But RB took the the main idea of GH" "

They created it (actually Konami did... Guitar Freak), they can take it all they want.

"GH had been planning a band based game for a while. "

Yup. And they made it. It's called Rock Band. The people who made GH (not GH itself, since it's a game, and cannot plan anything) planned a band game, got a new publisher, and made that band game.

Now Neversoft makes the GH games and is copying what HMX does to compete. But there's nothing wrong with that.

When Quake 2 came out, some people seriously accused it of copying Duke Nukem 3D. Why? Becuase you could crouch. Some ideas are too basic for copying them to be offensive.

[BuRn7 CaK3]

ok, I wish people would stop making this comment, it was very obvious that he meant that statement in regard to the guitar hero franchise, since they were on stage to talk about guitar hero, he shouldn't have had to say that he meant guitar hero. it's a given. the interviewer was just busting his balls. it was funny sure, but it was also a tad disrespectful to him and activision/neversoft.

im talking about the little quote on the Game Informer Magazine. Not the other thing.

[Artemecien]

How about we all just chill out and play a game of Ouendan.

No rivalry between companies with that.

[Sarge51]

-thinks the OP doesn't know a damn think about GH or RB-

[thedoorsdk]

I will say that, as far as the whole Konami vs. Harmonix argument goes, releasing stand-alone arcade machines is a whole different ballpark from releasing home versions with specific peripherals. In that respect alone Harmonix are 'pioneers.'

[Peppino]

there all silly little games with little plastic toy controllers. they are certainly not "semipro" anything unless u make a living off of guitar hero tournaments.

I mean that Rock Band technically is better than GH, and that GH3 si more a game than RB. Of course RB is not pro... but it is looking at the videogames world.

EDIT: And yes, Ouendan > All :D

[Artemecien]

EDIT: And yes, Ouendan > All :D


A beast of a rhythm game,to be sure.

[sa_nick]

This thread is stupid and there are a few people here who are either greatly misinformed or they're just trying to start an argument. I can't see this going anywhere good.