How Solo Play (Seems To) Work, With Evidence

[HeXcoda]

Since I'm guessing a dev is not gonna answer my question about how solo works, I decided to do some research. I found a number of videos of solo play in action...

First, a montage of various solo outings across many arenas...
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/106081.html

Then, a quick one for Orange Crush...
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/111602.html

Finally, the IGN Ignorant Sluts video...
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/120647.html

Interesting things to note:
* The other bandmates are ALWAYS generic black/white dressed... and the guitarist is some horrible mishmash of color and face paint. Guess which one the movie's creator was probably playing?
* A female vocalist is used for the Maps song -- and a different one for Garbage.
* When the venue changes, the band typically changes... especially near the end of the videos. The vocalist also changes a lot, in particular.
* In the gothy arena, the word "Pete" can be seen on the back. Name of the created guitarist, not the band, I'm guessing... in the Ignorant Sluts video, the same arena is seen and it reads "Ignorant Sluts" back there.
* In the IGN video, there's a loadscreen with only two of the four bandmembers. Likely a multiplayer session with only two people... and the remaining two slots get the generic black/white fill-ins.

The Unfortunate Conclusion:

When playing solo, generic fill-in bandmates are used, as evidenced by the shifting lineup and the very generic white and black clothes they wear compared to the obvious created-character guitarist. They're being generated randomly or pulled from a pool of HMX designed characters.

There is no band logo in sight and the only text is a name, likely the name of the character. You can't make a band for solo use, not even as window dressing -- all you have is your named soloist and the rest are Anonymous Nobodies.

In other words... solo mode is basically just a yawning rehash of Guitar Hero with no features similar to BWT.

I think HMX has really put too many eggs in one basket when it comes to BWT mode. It's the only thing that makes this game different from Guitar Hero other than drums/mike, and without it, there's little unique or interesting going on that we haven't seen before. It'll play well for a "Hit Notes!" music game, but without any depth or interactivity beyond that.

[espher]

Thank you for doing the research, but I honestly can't say I'm happy to see another thread ripping !on the solo play being 'the same'.

[foolosophy]

Fair analysis. Could it be that possibly you cannot control your band mates in Quick Play, but you can in Solo Tour?

[Eman311]

But does this prove solo mode is in fact not BWT with just one person? I'm not convinced quite yet.

[HeXcoda]

Fair analysis. Could it be that possibly you cannot control your band mates in Quick Play, but you can in Solo Tour?

That part I don't know. Hence "Seems To" in the thread title. There was no video of the actual structure -- this could conceivably be quickplay.

The evidence to the contrary is that in the first video, five or so songs all play out in the same arena before it 'graduates' to another one, then a few there, etc. In GH quickplay you don't squat in one arena; it's random, tied to the song. They may have changed that, but given you seem to be in one location for multiple songs, that is more likely to be the solo career mode.


Thank you for doing the research, but I honestly can't say I'm happy to see another thread ripping !on the solo play being 'the same'.

Once Harmonix shows us proof to the contrary I have to go by what I've seen so far. And what I've seen so far shows absolutely nothing different from Guitar Hero style gameplay.

This is a disappointment to me. I really wanted to design four characters, a name and a logo, and use them -- even if I couldn't do BWT with them at least they could jam along side me while I'm soloing. It's disheartening to have to jam alongside a bunch of anonymous nobodies instead. It takes the personality and the personalization out of the game.

[Magnet]

I'm pretty sure solo tour will get its own blog some time in the next couple weeks. They'll talk about it at some point before the game is released. It's difficult getting devs to answer questions directly (I've been trying to get some info on something minor in the game for over a month to no avail so far :(), so I guess we just have to hope for blogs and let them know what material we want them to write about.

[HeXcoda]

I'm pretty sure solo tour will get its own blog some time in the next couple weeks. They'll talk about it at some point before the game is released. It's difficult getting devs to answer questions directly (I've been trying to get some info on something minor in the game for over a month to no avail so far :(), so I guess we just have to hope for blogs and let them know what material we want them to write about.

My concern is we WON'T get info from them because it falls under the category of "bad news". Remember, we didn't get the announcement about a lack of online BWT until someone posted it in a thread that was only tangential to the topic. Something that critical could've easily gotten lost in the shuffle, and has barely made it out to the gamer news core at large, even though it's common knowledge here on the boards. If they don't want to come out and admit "There's no difference between GH's solo and our solo" they don't have to; they can sit back and wait for the preorders to cash in.

I'm being pretty cynical about that, I realize, but given how they're putting 100% emphasis on BWT mode -- every major feature is going into it -- and showing little to nothing about the others, that's worrying...

Alright, gonna hit the sack. Don't wanna obsess about this too much and blow it out of proportion. Laters.

[espher]

Once Harmonix shows us proof to the contrary I have to go by what I've seen so far. And what I've seen so far shows absolutely nothing different from Guitar Hero style gameplay.

This is a disappointment to me. I really wanted to design four characters, a name and a logo, and use them -- even if I couldn't do BWT with them at least they could jam along side me while I'm soloing. It's disheartening to have to jam alongside a bunch of anonymous nobodies instead. It takes the personality and the personalization out of the game.

I think I'm just getting sick of seeing the crying and/or comments about disappointment about BWT and/or solo mode in just about every thread.

It's the new double bass pedal to me.

Like, I can appreciate peoples' frustrations, but after a certain point the eyes just start to roll. ;)

[Xzyliac]

This was all pretty predictable and just about meets my expectations.

To be fair the guitar montage could very well be Quick Play.

[travmeatwad]

I'm alright with it being like that.. if I wanted to create a full band, I'd play with some friends.

[Electric_Zen]

Harmonix has stated multiple times that Solo play works like Career Mode in Guitar Hero. This is a manufactured controversy.

[tbradshaw]

Harmonix has stated multiple times that Solo play works like Career Mode in Guitar Hero. This is a manufactured controversy.

QFT.

However, to be fair to Hex, he's already come to grips with the fact that the solo career is just like GH. He's just grasping for straws to try and get some of the "band" feel out of the solo career by designing a band and getting a little role playing out of the deal.

So while it's very clear that solo play is just like the Guitar Hero series single player mode and some people in the thread have tried to make this tread about that (again, like the last 20 threads), Hex was just sharing his results after trying to research more about solo play and see if he can make a band. It's still helpful for him to share his findings of "just as expected," and maybe it will help end the banter about the solo career being like BWT in spite of blatant confirmation that it is not.

[sa_nick]

Didn't we already know all this?

What is it with ppl hating on the way the whole BWT thing is?

[Maggot_Brain]

Here's the way I'd like solo to work: I create 4 players, each with their own look. In solo mode, I can assign them to whatever instrument I want and also assign which ones are played by the computer and which ones are human. That would be the best way to do it, I think. I could finish the vocal solo mode and have the rest of the band being the actual solo characters that finished other instruments.

[HeXcoda]

However, to be fair to Hex, he's already come to grips with the fact that the solo career is just like GH. He's just grasping for straws to try and get some of the "band" feel out of the solo career by designing a band and getting a little role playing out of the deal.

Precisely. I've gotten over the fact that it's just a GH clone in structure -- ie, tiers, setlists, grind your way through, done. I don't LIKE that, but whatever, it'll still be fun in the same way GH2 was fun.

This thread is about the NEW revelation that, unless I'm wrong and I'd LOVE to be wrong, your "band" in solo play is not a band at all. It's an ever-shifting lineup of generic nobodies, completely outside your control. You can't even name your band, you're just "Pete" or whoever you name your solo character.

Why does this matter? Next quote:


Here's the way I'd like solo to work: I create 4 players, each with their own look. In solo mode, I can assign them to whatever instrument I want and also assign which ones are played by the computer and which ones are human. That would be the best way to do it, I think. I could finish the vocal solo mode and have the rest of the band being the actual solo characters that finished other instruments.

Bingo.

That's what I was hoping for. Even solo, at least give me the option of creating 3 other characters as window dressing, let me name and logo a fake band, and have them play alongside my solo guy. Okay, fine, no unlocking a van, no roadies or managers. Again: I am cool with tier grinder even if it's a little weak.

But take away EVERY SINGLE TOY that they've created, leaving us with literally nothing but a GH clone -- and in fact a step backwards, since we apparently can't even NAME our "band" -- and, wow. That's pretty weak. That is, as I said, putting all your eggs in one basket (BWT).

Now, if a dev wants to come along and say "No, you're looking at an earlier build" or "That's just for quickplay" or anything else, hooray! If not, and if I'm right, I stand by my opinion that this is disappointing.

[85_SWB]

atleast your playing with your created guy and not some made up character. And it is SOLO and what would that be with your band? Not your guy solo thats for sure. Besides the fact that its just you playing. Solo is when your member of the band wants to stray from the band and do something else.

[foolosophy]

atleast your playing with your created guy and not some made up character. And it is SOLO and what would that be with your band? Not your guy solo thats for sure. Besides the fact that its just you playing. Solo is when your member of the band wants to stray from the band and do something else.

...Well if those videos (the montage) are any evidence it looks like your band changes sporadically, which in essence makes no sense.

[Bakkster]

Having 3 individual solo careers is enough innovation for me. Anything else would just be gravy. I don't need gravy when I've already got awesome.

[HeXcoda]

...Well if those videos (the montage) are any evidence it looks like your band changes sporadically, which in essence makes no sense.

That's the only thing suggesting this is quickplay and not solo tour. It makes no logical sense for your band's lineup to change that often -- even "star soloists" like Sting or Santana keep a regular group around them for support.

...problem is, the band IS the same for a long stretch in each arena. The vocalist changes a lot but the bass and drummer are the same. Then, new arena, whole new band. Then once or twice, same arena, whole new band. Huh? What the heck's going on there?

At least in the GH games your band is consistent. Granted, in GH3, your band is consistently made of fugly muppets that are physically painful to look at. :) (And BACKUP DANCERS? whaaa?)

[Xzyliac]

Having 3 individual solo careers is enough innovation for me. Anything else would just be gravy. I don't need gravy when I've already got awesome.

Quoted for the fùcking truth.

[Jimmik]

I don't see what the big deal is, playing single player GH was still fun. And I don't think calling them "canned bandmates" is fair, they still look pretty sweet and they're generated randomly I'm assuming

[Bullseye]

It just seems a shame that you can create multiple band members, but they can only be used for the WBT stuff. It would be nice if the computer could sub these extra user made characters into it's pool of generic band-mates for Solo play.

[Nazriel]

Hypothesis:

Solo tour mode is made out to be as if you are a "solo artist."

Specifically, the usually nameless and interchangeable background musicians who support the guy whose name is on the CD cover.

As one example, after The Police, Sting was just Sting. Do you think the other musicians playing instruments for him received much acclaim? Not really, because it was Sting's show and no one else's. The other band members are practically temps. They're not high enough priority to be in the music video when Sting's being driven through the desert in a car commercial.
:cool:

Again, call it a theory, but it seems to make sense when you look at the black and white nameless members not calling attention to themselves in a Solo Tour. :)

[HeXcoda]

It does make sense, and it does fit the evidence.

Seems kinda... boring, though. Yes, you're the focus of attention, good for the ego. But compared to creating FOUR characters to dance around on stage while you're jamming it pales.

It's obvious Harmonix poured all their efforts into BWT mode. It shines. It's got depth and innovation, new approaches to the music game concept. I hope next year when RB2's out, though, they'll show some loving for modes other than BWT. Solo play should not be an afterthought -- you can't always play a game in multiplayer, unless you have an online pool to draw from. (Which we don't. Not until the patch, at least.)

[Murderous_Urges]

I read somewhere (can't remember probably here somewhere) that in world band tour if a member isn't there you can have an AI fill their spot so in my mind if you can play BWT with only two members then you probably could play with just one and all AI. I also remember a video of some sort I'l check and post if I find it.

[Bullseye]

Solo play should not be an afterthought -- you can't always play a game in multiplayer, unless you have an online pool to draw from. (Which we don't. Not until the patch, at least.)


That's most likely the key. The devs were probably banking on the WBT working online, so that you'd always have human band members, but that didn't pan out. So we're left with WBT functioning only if 2 or more people are in the same room, and the solo career a little underdeveloped.

[mxmarks]

Essentially I don't mind. It would be NICE, but it's one of those things that I really won't realize after the 1st two songs.

What I'm still more excited about is developing my solo guitarist, my solo drummer, my solo singer...and then having them LEAD a band of my friends, using the songs I've unlocked in my set.

Here's an interesting question - are all songs going to be available to everyone in solo mode? Or like, will I have to play solo drums to get a song, because solo guitar won't have it?

On one hand, that would suck...on the other, I'm 'excited' to bring in my roomate drummer to play some of his 'solo' hits in our set, while I bring in my own group.

Either way, this is the most anticipated game...well, ever.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Regardless of this assumption, I can safely say I won't be as disappointed as I was with GHIII!

[Reaper0563]

Here's an interesting question - are all songs going to be available to everyone in solo mode? Or like, will I have to play solo drums to get a song, because solo guitar won't have it?


for anyone who hasn't played, that's how GH3 worked, there were some songs you could only get by playing co-op, "reptillia" "suck my kiss" "city in flames on rock n roll" and three others

it was supposed to be online but GH3 failed with online co-op too, so that makes it difficult for some to get these songs. I'm hoping that harmonix did not make the mistake of having some songs exclusive to a particular instrument, i don't want to sing a full career a few songs at the most. And if i can't play BWT then i don't want there to be exclusive songs there either.

[stiper327b]

From what I understand, if anybody in your band has unlocked a song through the Solo mode, that song will be available in BWT. As far as I know, there are no exclusive songs to BWT or Solo.

[Bakkster]

From what I understand, if anybody in your band has unlocked a song through the Solo mode, that song will be available in BWT. As far as I know, there are no exclusive songs to BWT or Solo.

Yes, my understanding is that every solo career has the same 45-songs in the list. They are arranged for each instrument, based on difficulty for that instrument.

[HeXcoda]

That's one advantage Rock Band has over GH3 -- no songs are locked under multiplayer only. You can gain access to every single song even if you're a soloist, whereas in GH3, you can only unlock using local multiplayer (no online coop campaign).

Only song I'm missing due to that is Sabotage... the others are modern day rock I haven't heard of before. Guess I'm getting old... but RB has Sabotage, so I get my way in the end! Evil laugh goes here.

[Reaper0563]

That's one advantage Rock Band has over GH3 -- no songs are locked under multiplayer only. You can gain access to every single song even if you're a soloist, whereas in GH3, you can only unlock using local multiplayer (no online coop campaign).

Only song I'm missing due to that is Sabotage... the others are modern day rock I haven't heard of before. Guess I'm getting old... but RB has Sabotage, so I get my way in the end! Evil laugh goes here.

you're also missing the Blue Oyster Cult song, if you're into that. That is only unlockable through coop campaign too. The BOC song is one of my favorites in the game.

[JackBNimble]

When all is said and done you have 2 choices.
1) I will buy rock band
2) I wont buy rock band

In the end ,after playing my defective GH3 ,I know that Rock Band (no matter how bad solo mode my be to you) has more options all around on and off line.So who really cares if solo resembles GH ,they dont have the full band exp on or off line.They cant create a character,or logo for band or play with 4 buddies or get the online features that we get.WE win because HMX worked hard and made a better game all around.

[MartyMcFly]

WE win because HMX worked hard and made a better game all around.

This should be the only statement needed in a comparison of RB and that other game.

QFT

[JackBNimble]

It does make sense, and it does fit the evidence.

Seems kinda... boring, though. Yes, you're the focus of attention, good for the ego. But compared to creating FOUR characters to dance around on stage while you're jamming it pales.

It's obvious Harmonix poured all their efforts into BWT mode. It shines. It's got depth and innovation, new approaches to the music game concept. I hope next year when RB2's out, though, they'll show some loving for modes other than BWT. Solo play should not be an afterthought -- you can't always play a game in multiplayer, unless you have an online pool to draw from. (Which we don't. Not until the patch, at least.)

You F'n crying biatch.Why dont you just go join the guitar hero forum.HMX has taken this game to an all new level beyond most of our expectations and your crying like a girl.Give it up already,just look at the options you have with this game and what you have with GH.Do ya still wanna cry?

[Nazriel]

You F'n crying biatch.Why dont you just go join the guitar hero forum.HMX has taken this game to an all new level beyond most of our expectations and your crying like a girl.Give it up already,just look at the options you have with this game and what you have with GH.Do ya still wanna cry?


While it is appreciated that you respect RB and want to defend it from naysayers, in this case that is uncalled for.

What HeXcoda stated can hardly be construed as "crying" about it. The lady/gentleman seems to merely be stating what the built up image in the mind was, and sharing a wishlist like disappointment. "Aww man, would have been cool to have this, but it is still good!"

People often dream up paradise but expect and accept reality.

There's nothing wrong with piping up with ideas of what one thought may be there but weren't, if nothing else it can encourage the developers to look into extending the experience in new ways in the future as different ideas are gleaned from players' thoughts and dreams.

[HeXcoda]

You F'n crying biatch.Why dont you just go join the guitar hero forum.HMX has taken this game to an all new level beyond most of our expectations and your crying like a girl.Give it up already,just look at the options you have with this game and what you have with GH.Do ya still wanna cry?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a shining example of the sort of quality discourse you can only get from the internet. Internet! It's what's for dinner.

But let's take what little logic and debate you're actually presenting and try to make something of it...

I'm sure his snappy reply will be something like "tl;dr", but, it's worth a try. And it's only proper to show some respect even when I get none in return. Once, at least.

"Why don't you just go and joint the guitar hero forum?"

Because there's no real community around Guitar Hero. The way the GH series works is they give you a pile of songs to hit notes on, and you hit notes on them. You could do that with two people but it's not all that different from doing it with one. Other than comparing scores there's really no reason to interact with anyone. So, what good is joining their forum? There's nothing to discuss.

On the other hand, Rock Band was designed AROUND the concept of community. It's from the title ("Rock BAND") straight on through to the presentation and the highly innovative Band World Tour mode, which is the obvious emphasis of the game. THAT is the way HMX wants people to play because then, it becomes more than a note-hitting setlist grinder, it becomes an interactive community experience.

"HMX has taken this game to an all new level beyond most of our expectations and your crying like a girl."

Here's where we hit problems. Yes, they've taken it to a whole new level, but the problem is that in doing so they fell short of some goals. One, it's not that fun to play solo. From my research which started this thread, research I did so I could do something constructive and not simply "whine", the solo experience is looking to be on par with GH -- which as I said above, is not much of a great experience. You'd agree to that, no doubt.

What I'm expressing is displeasure that while Rock Band has pushed the genre forward, it's done it at the expense of solo play (which in several ways is a step backwards). For MOST people, MOST of the time, solo is going to be where they are due to not being able to have 3 friends at their beck and call whenever they want to play. We're adults (presumably..) and lead adult lives and that means our options are limited. If we're not given a compelling solo element ALONGSIDE the very, very compelling multiplayer element, the game suffers.

"Give it up already,just look at the options you have with this game and what you have with GH."

Ah, that would be the brilliant "Buy it or don't!" options presented above? You're missing a nuance here. One doesn't have to feel a game is 100% flawless and perfect and holy in order to buy it and get some fun out of it. I'm going to buy it, I'm going to get some fun out of it, but I still feel that RB2 or whatever comes next needs to have more loving given to the solo element. That's called constructive criticism and it helps HMX in deciding what directions to take the series.

"Do ya still wanna cry?"

Considering I just somehow pulled useful nuggets of discussion out of the steaming pile you called a response... do YOU wanna still cry? Because if all you have to offer behind your arguements is childish insults, I'm done with you.

The executive summary for people who go "WALL OF TEXT" -- I like Rock Band and am going to buy it, but I do feel it has some areas that could use improvement, and am hopeful the inevitable sequel will be even better. Thank you, drive through.