New Video! Must See

[MaineDrummer]

Did anyone else notice all the new music videos on the main page?

Blitzkreg Bop-Tom Sayer-Here It Goes-Run To The Hills and more!!!!



Edit:Holy ****! The animations are incredible. Just watched the drummer on TS. WOW!

[Terranova]

Yeah great vids HMX did a excellent job with the mo-cap. and some great look outfits and stage effects.

[MaineDrummer]

How cool is the venue for Black Hole Sun:D

[Terranova]

How cool is the venue for Black Hole Sun:D

have to say that's the best of them so far imo, with the one for TS coming a very close second

[admanimal]

Puts GH3 to shame in the animation department for sure.

[Terranova]

Puts GH3 to shame in the animation department for sure.

Sure does, they seem miles apart, quite strange really seeing as Neversoft can Mo-cap Tony hawk and skating fine enough but not guitar, drums and vocals.

[MaineDrummer]

BTW be sure to check out the Game Info section, more new video there as well.

[axe990]

holy Christ sick!

[MaineDrummer]

Sure does, they seem miles apart, quite strange really seeing as Neversoft can Mo-cap Tony hawk and skating fine enough but not guitar, drums and vocals.

That's because they don't have an actual musicians to the left and right at all times as is the case at the AWESOME HMX offices.

[mobhit101]

Dizamn! The new site looks feckin' awesome!!!!!!!!!! Love the stuff on the left side!

[vtjustinb]

Jeebus--that is unbelievable. What a difference that makes, and the drummer girl on TS is tearing it up!

[mobhit101]

I'm loving the vids in the game info page! Tattoo creator looks BAMF! Good GOD! Is it really only 2 more weeks?!?!?!??!?!?!

[seafisch]

BTW be sure to check out the Game Info section, more new video there as well.

Holy schneike, the character creator, rock shop, and ink shop are crazy... *wipes drool off keyboard*

[DrBraun]

On thing that bugs me about GH, GH2, Rock Band and that other new guitar game is the lack of guitar straps in the games... is this a feature that is totally impossible to animate - or what's the deal with that?!

[ThePaska]

I didn't notice the site had been updated! Awesome, guess they are getting ready for release. This is what slowed down the forums so much last night. The videos are sweet! Rock Band character animations look so much more realistic and natural than any other game before it.

[MundaneSoul]

Freaking incredible. Somehow, my anticipation seems to double every day.

[tombrady]

The lasers on Tom Sawyer remind me of Tool :'(

[vtjustinb]

On thing that bugs me about GH, GH2, Rock Band and that other new guitar game is the lack of guitar straps in the games... is this a feature that is totally impossible to animate - or what's the deal with that?!

I think it might just be one of those "more trouble than it's worth" things. Mainly the occlusion problems of the models that have so many different movement animations and body sizes, as well as all of the different costume elements. The guitar isn't too hard to place since it's pretty consistent model to model but the strap would actually suck to make it look awesome for every animation and every configuration of outfit and body type. Dunno what GH's excuse is though, since they have a pretty finite set of models and animations.

[DrBraun]

I think it might just be one of those "more trouble than it's worth" things. Mainly the occlusion problems of the models that have so many different movement animations and body sizes, as well as all of the different costume elements. The guitar isn't too hard to place since it's pretty consistent model to model but the strap would actually suck to make it look awesome for every animation and every configuration of outfit and body type. Dunno what GH's excuse is though, since they have a pretty finite set of models and animations.

I kinda figured that was the cause... but it still bugs me, at least with RB where all the other animations and the overall design is super slick.

[tombrady]

Yeah, besides, when you play you'll be watching the note charts anyway so it's not going to be mind blowing...

I don't think HMX needs to implement the havok physics engine so we can have pretty guitar straps :P

[holyangel]

Awsome the site, the videos are incredible, i think we all know who won the animation battle.

Way to go HMX!!:cool:

[sa_nick]

Dunno what GH's excuse is though, since they have a pretty finite set of models and animations.


Ummm... they suck? *nods*

What? I'm allowed to be a RB fanboy. I just watched all the videos, I think it's perfectly fine to be fanboyish right now.

The animation was perfect for all band members, awesome moves for the instrumentalists, the different attitudes play a much bigger part than i thought they would. As for the singer, just pure awesomeness, their movements with their whole body, to their hands and of course the lip sync and the times they close their eyes at just the right time. All looked so great.

Venues rocked. Sweet designs, characters moves around them well, the lighting cues were great all the time. Footage cut at the right times (although some the intro wide shots to another wide shot seemed a little garring). Continuity was sometimes annoying, but theres always the whole "its like a music concert filmed over several nights" thing to fall back too.

Actual camera movement was sweet, characters interacting with the camera is always a nice little touch (oh, and the crowd surfing *thumbs up*). Not a huge fan of all the post-production type effects. Greyscale looked cool, but the inverted colours and mirror screen seemed a little ameture-ish. I can't remember what venues they were in, maybe the effect get better as u get more popular and play bigger venues?

Overall, they're all so very very awesome an got me hyped, which is bad coz its 2am and I need to get up early tomorrow. 3 weeks give or take (damn shipping to Australia) and I'll be playing this game. I can't wait. Goodnight

[Apples]

I like the skull head guitar/bass at the end of the Run To The Hills vid... glad to see the funny gimmick guitars are still going to be around. :cool:

[WingsOfSteel]

Wow, this was my first time listening to the Tom Sawyer cover with no distractions, and it's really good. The instruments are spot-on and the vocals are really good at some points and at their very worst, they're still decent.

[Sairynn]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade (mine too), but I am pretty unimpressed with the animation of the band. Sure, the drummer is a million times better than GH3, but on fast songs everyone (yes the drummer too and especially the singer) looks like they're having a seizure. The movements themselves are awesome - they captured some great motions and they look nice - but they are extremely choppy and do not flow. The best video is Black Hole Sun just because it's slow and subdued and thus looks halfway realistic. While I don't expect HMX to have the motions match those of the real artists (though how much would that ROCK?), I am a bit disappointed, in particular with Run To The Hills. I know the characters are stylized and "cartoony" (and I'm a big fan of the art style of the game), but I very much doubt anyone could belt out that chorus while performing those moves.

Maybe (read: hopefully) it's just because of the flash video, but everything just looks choppy and the lip syncing appears delayed.

[jq71586]

Maybe (read: hopefully) it's just because of the flash video, but everything just looks choppy and the lip syncing appears delayed.

Yeah, thats why it was choppy. I kept it on pause at the beginning of each video for about a minute and it ran smooth the entire way.

[vtjustinb]

but I am pretty unimpressed with the animation of the band

I just can't fathom how anyone would think that--short of having unrealistically high expectations for essentially the background elements of the game, or just being "one of those guys." :P

Compared to what we've seen in the GH franchise for years, this gameplay footage is miles and miles beyond it. Sure, anyone could be picky and cite things they think could be improved--but I think that's mainly because it's skirting on the edge of the realism curve.

Just as a sidebar, the realism curve (forget what it's formally called) is a graph that maps people's satisfaction or comfort with an animated avatar. Their satisfaction typically increases steadily right up until near-photorealism where it drops off sharply. The closer you get to realistic animation the more unsettling it is to people because of the minor things that are "off" about it. That's part of the reason why Pixar and Dreamworks have made careers out of making stylized "cartoony" animation.

[holyangel]

Yeah, thats why it was choppy. I kept it on pause at the beginning of each video for about a minute and it ran smooth the entire way.

Well, at least in my opinion, the videos are fine, so the problem it was the amount of flash the page uses, but it is a great site.

[BiffMan]

Maybe (read: hopefully) it's just because of the flash video, but everything just looks choppy and the lip syncing appears delayed.

Bear in mind the actual game is going to be running at a much, much higher framerate than those videos. Don't know if we've heard it's 60FPS or not, but the demo at Best Buy sure seems like it's running that fast and the animations are very smooth on the demo. So fear not, it's all gonna be good....

[Sairynn]

I just can't fathom how anyone would think that--short of having unrealistically high expectations for essentially the background elements of the game, or just being "one of those guys." :P

Compared to what we've seen in the GH franchise for years, this gameplay footage is miles and miles beyond it. Sure, anyone could be picky and cite things they think could be improved--but I think that's mainly because it's skirting on the edge of the realism curve.

Just as a sidebar, the realism curve (forget what it's formally called) is a graph that maps people's satisfaction or comfort with an animated avatar. Their satisfaction typically increases steadily right up until near-photorealism where it drops off sharply. The closer you get to realistic animation the more unsettling it is to people because of the minor things that are "off" about it. That's part of the reason why Pixar and Dreamworks have made careers out of making stylized "cartoony" animation.

Haha, I'm trying not to be "that guy". =)

Maybe I should have clarified... it's not the actual movements I don't like, it's that they looked really really choppy when I watched the videos, which could just be due to the flash player. The game might be perfect and then all my fears shall be thrown out the window. I also feel like the singer might be a tad overdone... he doesn't have to move around ALL the time, which is what it looked like they had him programmed to do. Real singers bounce around while they *aren't* singing. I know, I know, Rock Band != real life, but one way to make animated characters look more natural is to have them do things that real people would do. Part of why Dreamworks/Pixar have been so successful is that they are very good at capturing lifelike mannerisms in their animated characters.

But that's just my opinion, like I said the game may be smooth as butter and then I'll be perfectly happy.

Obviously RB's animation is waaaay above and beyond GH3 but, boring as my guitarist may be in GH, at least she isn't flailing wildly.

[WingsOfSteel]

Just as a sidebar, the realism curve (forget what it's formally called) is a graph that maps people's satisfaction or comfort with an animated avatar. Their satisfaction typically increases steadily right up until near-photorealism where it drops off sharply. The closer you get to realistic animation the more unsettling it is to people because of the minor things that are "off" about it. That's part of the reason why Pixar and Dreamworks have made careers out of making stylized "cartoony" animation.

I'm pretty sure what you're describing is the "Uncanny Valley."

[vtjustinb]

I'm pretty sure what you're describing is the "Uncanny Valley."

Yup! That's it. My virtual environments course was definitely a while ago. :P

[HMXJohnlok]

It's so awesome seeing the response to the hard work everybody put into the game. Of course, in-game footage on the console is going to be much higher quality, and smoother, since it isn't streaming off the web! My favorite of those videos was actually Run to the Hills =D

[dragulaAC]

I dunno, I've seen quite a few bands perform with an energetic singer that's all over the place. heh, much more so than the RB singer.

[Sairynn]

It's so awesome seeing the response to the hard work everybody put into the game. Of course, in-game footage on the console is going to be much higher quality, and smoother, since it isn't streaming off the web! My favorite of those videos was actually Run to the Hills =D

Good to hear, and other than the "choppyness" I really did like them all. The stage for that song was epic!

[Bakkster]

Obviously RB's animation is waaaay above and beyond GH3 but, boring as my guitarist may be in GH, at least she isn't flailing wildly.

I like the choice for HMX to make the animations look like a music video. I'm sure that when Van Halen play(ed) Jump live, they didn't all simultaneously leap into the air off of the drum platform at the start of the chorus. It sure as hell looked cool in the video, though :cool:

I also noticed that in GH3 demo, the singer would sometimes back away from the mic while still singing. Oops! ;)

[Supergeek]

The new website is great, but I CANNOT STAND when sites resize my browser. It's annoying as hell.

[army_of_me]

Just as a sidebar, the realism curve (forget what it's formally called) is a graph that maps people's satisfaction or comfort with an animated avatar. Their satisfaction typically increases steadily right up until near-photorealism where it drops off sharply. The closer you get to realistic animation the more unsettling it is to people because of the minor things that are "off" about it. That's part of the reason why Pixar and Dreamworks have made careers out of making stylized "cartoony" animation.

The uncanny valley!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley

(aww crap... super late)

[Jack_Harvard]

Firstly: the videos are fan-freakin-tastic. I love everything about them.

Secondly: I just found this odd. None of the guitarists have guitar straps. Just noticed that. Does anybody know why? It's not a complaint, just something interesting.

[vtjustinb]

I'm sure that when Van Halen play(ed) Jump live, they didn't all simultaneously leap into the air off of the drum platform at the start of the chorus. It sure as hell looked cool in the video, though :cool:

I'm pretty sure now that DLR is 53 it'd be more of a hop, but you know he's still doing it. :P

[admanimal]

Secondly: I just found this odd. None of the guitarists have guitar straps. Just noticed that. Does anybody know why? It's not a complaint, just something interesting.

Maybe it's just so they can take an artistic license with the kinds of movements the guitars can make without having to worry about the straps breaking any physical laws.

[Sairynn]

I like the choice for HMX to make the animations look like a music video. I'm sure that when Van Halen play(ed) Jump live, they didn't all simultaneously leap into the air off of the drum platform at the start of the chorus. It sure as hell looked cool in the video, though :cool:

I also noticed that in GH3 demo, the singer would sometimes back away from the mic while still singing. Oops! ;)

Yeah, GH3 becomes less and less impressive as you play it more.

I watched the videos some more, and I'm coming around to them. The interactions between band members and just overall presentation are wonderful. Watch the guitarist at the end of Run To The Hills. Pure awesome.

Still, for anyone who wants an example of what I'm whining about, check out the singer's right arm in the Blitzkrieg Bop video. You can't tell me it doesn't look like he's having some sort of arm spasm.

[MaineDrummer]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade (mine too), but I am pretty unimpressed with the animation of the band. Sure, the drummer is a million times better than GH3, but on fast songs everyone (yes the drummer too and especially the singer) looks like they're having a seizure. The movements themselves are awesome - they captured some great motions and they look nice - but they are extremely choppy and do not flow. The best video is Black Hole Sun just because it's slow and subdued and thus looks halfway realistic. While I don't expect HMX to have the motions match those of the real artists (though how much would that ROCK?), I am a bit disappointed, in particular with Run To The Hills. I know the characters are stylized and "cartoony" (and I'm a big fan of the art style of the game), but I very much doubt anyone could belt out that chorus while performing those moves.

Maybe (read: hopefully) it's just because of the flash video, but everything just looks choppy and the lip syncing appears delayed.

Wow... What we have here is the best animation ever for this type of game, MILES above anything preceding it and your disappointed?? unimpressed?? You have your opinion and that's cool, but my god man what would it take to impress?

And I would challenge you to play drums, or sing BB in a real band without looking like your having a seizure:p

[Bakkster]

Maybe it's just so they can take an artistic license with the kinds of movements the guitars can make without having to worry about the straps breaking any physical laws.

Flowing objects are just very hard to model. So there would be three options for guitar straps:
1) Make them rigid (looks worse than no strap)
2) Model them with an engine (processor and code intensive)
3) Pre-render them (developer intensive, breaks as soon as the character dons a massive spiked shoulder-piece and the strap goes through the costume)

Since none of these options are very good ones, straps end up getting left out. It's a small price to pay, IMO, for better animations all around.

[Jack_Harvard]

Flowing objects are just very hard to model. So there would be three options for guitar straps:
1) Make them rigid (looks worse than no strap)
2) Model them with an engine (processor and code intensive)
3) Pre-render them (developer intensive, breaks as soon as the character dons a massive spiked shoulder-piece and the strap goes through the costume)

Since none of these options are very good ones, straps end up getting left out. It's a small price to pay, IMO, for better animations all around.

Thanks! I had a feeling it was something to do with difficulty with animation. I have no problem with strapless guitars!

[LongDarkBlues]

I don't care about strapless guitars wither, but Half Life 2 had perfectly functioning cables 4 years ago that would convert perfectly to guitar straps - it's certainly possible. A minor point, though, there's so much have done - the tattoos, the outfits, etc that I don't mind it at all - it's not an impossible technology, though.

[Eman311]

wow, they went nuts with the new site.

[Siberian]

Coolest animation I've seen wasn't in one of these videos.

Watching a buddy play the demo at Best Buy during one section the Lead Singer leans over to the Bassist and the two of them are singing part of the chorus to In Bloom together.

[vtjustinb]

I don't care about strapless guitars wither, but Half Life 2 had perfectly functioning cables 4 years ago that would convert perfectly to guitar straps - it's certainly possible. A minor point, though, there's so much have done - the tattoos, the outfits, etc that I don't mind it at all - it's not an impossible technology, though.

It's not that it's impossible, and no one here is saying that, it's just that it would require an engine to model the relationship between the strap and the model so it could handle variations in model topography, and that's just not practical for RB.

Most modern shooters already rely on an engine to handle things like gravity, the physics of object collisions, deformations, and the like. What Half Life 2 did was make more of the scenery an actual object in the engine (as opposed to just being bitmapped skins that rest on a polygonal model), so that the physics of the engine (object collisions and gravity mainly) could be applied and that's why you can interact with it.

Like Bakkster mentioned, modeling the straps with an engine would be processor/code intensive and there's really wayyyy too much going on in the simulation to let this be something that eats a lot of cycles. There's more to it than just "converting cables to RB," and it's one of those compromises they made for the sake of simplicity and performance.

[MundaneSoul]

Coolest animation I've seen wasn't in one of these videos.

Watching a buddy play the demo at Best Buy during one section the Lead Singer leans over to the Bassist and the two of them are singing part of the chorus to In Bloom together.

Yeah, the singer does that with the guitarist in one of the videos (Suffragette City, I think). That was definitely a mind-blowing moment for me. Just another confirmation of how freaking awesome this game will be.

[Bakkster]

Like Bakkster mentioned, modeling the straps with an engine would be processor/code intensive and there's really wayyyy too much going on in the simulation to let this be something that eats a lot of cycles. There's more to it than just "converting cables to RB," and it's one of those compromises they made for the sake of simplicity and performance.

Rock Band could run the Source engine, I guess. ;)

If so, I switch from Bass to the Portal gun. BEST MOSHPIT EVER!

[vtjustinb]

Rock Band could run the Source engine, I guess. ;)

If so, I switch from Bass to the Portal gun. BEST MOSHPIT EVER!

So brutal.

[espher]

I'm stuck here.

When I try to view these from home, either I can't load the Rock Band home page or it loads atrociously slow. When I try to view these from work, due to the crappy onboard video, the videos play at a frame rate I can count thanks to the ornate animation under the menu to the left (this is a problem I have when watching all flash video with flash ads or other animated gadgets, so it makes watching the GameSpot crap mostly unbearable, except a lot of their stuff is Shockwave so I can right-click and uncheck Play and Loop).

Any chance of a nice standalone player or standalone links for these videos?

[Quastor]

There are so many videos it blows my mind. Don't forget about some of the new videos under game info! See a bit of the inking in action.


Yeah, the singer does that with the guitarist in one of the videos (Suffragette City, I think). That was definitely a mind-blowing moment for me. Just another confirmation of how freaking awesome this game will be.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I actually restarted the video to make sure I saw it right. Just goes to show how much care was put into the game by Harmonix!

[TheRocker]

Run To The Hiiiills! and Blitzkrieg Bop for the Win!

[sushi111]

Amazing videos!

[TheRocker]

My god.. Hype is now over 1billion%

[Xzyliac]

Black Hole Sun wins.

[foolosophy]

Seriously BHS was the greatest thing ever. That black & white effect was so ****ing awesome. And Tom Sawyer was nothing to sneeze at, my favourite arena thus far. So many effects like lasers and fog! The jumping over the drummer was pretty funny.

One small issue is some of the camera cuts make no sense, involving teleporting bandies.

[juiceman23]

yeah i liked the cover for run to the hills.. its actually good

[espher]

One small issue is some of the camera cuts make no sense, involving teleporting bandies.

They've already stated that the style they're going for is "music video recorded from concert footage".

Multiple shows = multiple video = continuity problems.

[foolosophy]

They've already stated that the style they're going for is "music video recorded from concert footage".

Multiple shows = multiple video = continuity problems.

Oh true, that makes sense. I was just thrown off because most montages involving concert music videos are from different arenas. But I like the way they did it better. Well done Harmonix!

[TK-757]

OMG! I've got the boards bookmarked, so I haven't been to the main site in ages!

I LOVE the new design!! :)

[Bobble]

I like how they toss the negative filter on in Paranoid after Ozzy says "I must be blind", I also love the fact that the chars are playing actual notes on the guitars with proper fingering (not perfect but accurate).

*edited for typo*

[MetaLSavioR]

Speaking of Paranoid, does anyone else besides me notice that there is a lack of drums during key parts of the song, even though the drummer is clearly beating the skins? Is this because these key parts are supposed to be the "drum fills" that we play ourselves, or am I just being weird? I'm asking because I love this song, and the lack of drums that were otherwise in the original is throwing me off....

and to remain on-topic, the videos all ROCK! \mm/

[foolosophy]

Yeah I'm pretty sure those are the fills because the note that you hear after the silence is a cymbal. So they're probably running some auto-play that hits all the notes required perfectly. A performance mode.

[bmore007]

These videos don't do anything for me. I'd rather see the vids with note charts.

[BiffMan]

Yeah I'm pretty sure those are the fills because the note that you hear after the silence is a cymbal. So they're probably running some auto-play that hits all the notes required perfectly. A performance mode.

It's definitely someone or something playing because in addition to those cymbal hits at the end of fills, you can also hear the ding of 1-2-3-4-5 stars being acheived and also hear when a player goes into overdrive. Not certain it's auto-play because I swear in some of the songs there are some notes being dropped on various instruments, but hard to say for sure at this point.

As an aside, anyone notice some of the other awesome little touches in the videos. My favorite is about the mid-point in Run For The Hills, just before the solo, the bassist comes walking at the camera and does an air-kick toward it and apparently actually hits the camera because it immediately tilts way up. Awesomeness +11...

[JakeFatal]

the bliztkreig bop one is amazing

[foolosophy]

It's definitely someone or something playing because in addition to those cymbal hits at the end of fills, you can also hear the ding of 1-2-3-4-5 stars being acheived and also hear when a player goes into overdrive. Not certain it's auto-play because I swear in some of the songs there are some notes being dropped on various instruments, but hard to say for sure at this point.

As an aside, anyone notice some of the other awesome little touches in the videos. My favorite is about the mid-point in Run For The Hills, just before the solo, the bassist comes walking at the camera and does an air-kick toward it and apparently actually hits the camera because it immediately tilts way up. Awesomeness +11...

If I'm not mistaken the Performance Mode cheats in Guitar Hero activates SP. The dings would be natural, considering Performance Mode hits every single note perfectly, therefore an unbroken combo which would give you a 5 star most definitely.

[Sairynn]

Did anybody else notice that the Tom Sawyer venue is apparently on the top of some really tall building? You can see city lights way below you through the windows behind them! Some people think you might be in the top of the Space Needle in Seattle, or some similar tower.

[Axel32]

I REALLY like the animations in Black Hole Sun.. I like how the singer plays the camera often there.. and falls on the ground for some of the lyrics. MAN! HMX has put alot of time in the animations depot.. everything looks right on synch.. Unlike in GH3 where the drummer is a robbot and the singer will eat you with his muppet-ness. I hate what Neversoft did with him... he was so cool in GH2.. now he's just.. eh..

[Sairynn]

I REALLY like the animations in Black Hole Sun.. I like how the singer plays the camera often there.. and falls on the ground for some of the lyrics. MAN! HMX has put alot of time in the animations depot.. everything looks right on synch.. Unlike in GH3 where the drummer is a robbot and the singer will eat you with his muppet-ness. I hate what Neversoft did with him... he was so cool in GH2.. now he's just.. eh..

Agreed. Awesome venue too, looks like it's in Germany or something (the sign on the wall looked like it might be in German).

[juiceman23]

Speaking of Paranoid, does anyone else besides me notice that there is a lack of drums during key parts of the song, even though the drummer is clearly beating the skins? Is this because these key parts are supposed to be the "drum fills" that we play ourselves, or am I just being weird? I'm asking because I love this song, and the lack of drums that were otherwise in the original is throwing me off....

and to remain on-topic, the videos all ROCK! \mm/

i noticed that too!... but in Here it Goes.... i think its the parts in the songs where the drummer "free styles" on toms... just a theory

[KingColon]

I didn't care too much for the Tom Sawyer video, something was just off about it to me.


The Run to the Hills video, on the other hand, rocked somethin' fierce. It was awesome.

[ZkDotNet]

I could say a lot, but I'm just going to say the videos are f'n awesome. Black Hole Sun particularly amazed me at the level of detail HMX put into this game... and seriously, this stuff is just extras... it's not even gameplay.

But, after seeing that, I really hope we can save videos of our performances.