Delay with drum free fills section?

[toelessfoot]

Question for those who have already played the game. Since during the free fills section on the drums you can hit the pads to make your own fills, and there is a slight delay for most TVs, is the delay from when you hit the pad to when you hear the sound noticeable?

[That_One_Dude]

There shouldn't be a delay at all, at least there wasn't at the demo sites.

You hit it, you heard the noise as soon as your stick was coming back up :P

[SmokaCola]

Question for those who have already played the game. Since during the free fills section on the drums you can hit the pads to make your own fills, and there is a slight delay for most TVs, is the delay from when you hit the pad to when you hear the sound noticeable?

If you're having delay problems you need to calibrate the lag. Apparently RB has the best lag calibration system ever made for a rhythm game. As the above post said, you shouldn't have a delay. Period.

[Comedian]

Actually, he makes a good point here. This is the opposite situation from normal lag.

For example, lets say it takes 30ms for the game to make sounds appear on your speaker system. Rock Band has a lag calibration that will fix this, causing the audio to be sent 30ms before it expects the press on the controller to signify that you are hitting the note. I'm assuming if it doesn't get the controller press it just stops the audio - so you hear just a flash of guitar.

But with the fills, it can't predict what you are going to hit. So when it sees the indication from your controller, it knows it needs to play that drum sound - 30ms ago. It's too late at that point.

I played the demo and didn't notice a huge delay. But it was loud in there, I'm not very good, and it was plugged directly into an LCD TV. I do wonder how well this will sound on my home setup.

Might just have to learn to hit them a little early.

[Bakkster]

For example, lets say it takes 30ms for the game to make sounds appear on your speaker system. Rock Band has a lag calibration that will fix this, causing the audio to be sent 30ms before it expects the press on the controller to signify that you are hitting the note. I'm assuming if it doesn't get the controller press it just stops the audio - so you hear just a flash of guitar.

Not quite correct. The game outputs the sound on time, it is the A/V equipment (TV, stereo receiver, speakers, etc) that causes the delay, usually because of digital components. If you hear drum hits too late, it's because there is a lag in your setup, and there's nothing the game can do about it.

[tbradshaw]

I'm assuming if it doesn't get the controller press it just stops the audio - so you hear just a flash of guitar.

This isn't directly related to your question, but I couldn't resist:

Oh man, good ear. Turns out this happens for a different reason though, it's due to the leniency given to players for striking notes.

Here's an example. Let's say there's a series of just green notes and that the designers have decided to give a 30ms "window" to hit any note as it goes by and they've decided to "center" that window on a note. That would give us a series of 30ms windows mapped over time that looks like this:


|-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----|

The sound from the notes on the music track, however, is perfectly synchronized with the center of the gems. So we can overlay the sound with the "hit windows".



|-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----|
d`--------- d`--------- d`--------- d`---------

Next, let's say that our timing isn't particular consistent, and we it the notes like this (where S means a strum)



|-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----|
d`--------- d`--------- d`--------- d`---------
S S S

Notice that we missed the last note, but we were inside the hit window on the first three notes. This is what we're going to hear where squiggles (tildes) are played track.



|-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----|
d`--------- d`--------- d`--------- d`---------
S S S
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~XX

We hear the first three notes perfectly, as we expect, even though we were pretty far from perfect. However, when we miss the last note, the entire "hit window" has to pass by before the game knows for "sure" that we've missed the note. Often this results in a snippet of guitar being played (corresponding to the portion of the audio track that exists during the hit window) and then getting cut off brashly with the "thunk" sound of a missed note.

This is ultra obvious with Guitar Hero 3, where they have increase the window of time you get to hit notes.

[toelessfoot]

This isn't directly related to your question, but I couldn't resist:

Oh man, good ear. Turns out this happens for a different reason though, it's due to the leniency given to players for striking notes.

Here's an example. Let's say there's a series of just green notes and that the designers have decided to give a 30ms "window" to hit any note as it goes by and they've decided to "center" that window on a note. That would give us a series of 30ms windows mapped over time that looks like this:


|-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----|

The sound from the notes on the music track, however, is perfectly synchronized with the center of the gems. So we can overlay the sound with the "hit windows".



|-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----|
d`--------- d`--------- d`--------- d`---------

Next, let's say that our timing isn't particular consistent, and we it the notes like this (where S means a strum)



|-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----|
d`--------- d`--------- d`--------- d`---------
S S S

Notice that we missed the last note, but we were inside the hit window on the first three notes. This is what we're going to hear where squiggles (tildes) are played track.



|-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----| |-----30ms-----|
d`--------- d`--------- d`--------- d`---------
S S S
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~XX

We hear the first three notes perfectly, as we expect, even though we were pretty far from perfect. However, when we miss the last note, the entire "hit window" has to pass by before the game knows for "sure" that we've missed the note. Often this results in a snippet of guitar being played (corresponding to the portion of the audio track that exists during the hit window) and then getting cut off brashly with the "thunk" sound of a missed note.

This is ultra obvious with Guitar Hero 3, where they have increase the window of time you get to hit notes.

Nice breakdown.

I know for sure my TV has lag and i'm guessing that it syncs the audio on it's own speakers to match the video, so i'm hoping that my Logitech speakers have none. I guess I'll find out soon :).

[tbradshaw]

Nice breakdown.

I know for sure my TV has lag and i'm guessing that it syncs the audio on it's own speakers to match the video, so i'm hoping that my Logitech speakers have none. I guess I'll find out soon :).

Yeah, very soon. I'm stoked.

Of note, the new calibration process allows you to separately calibrate the controller, the audio, and the video. Even if you TV or audio equipment have lag, I'm feeling pretty confident that Rock Band is going to be able to be adjusted to make it play great.

[hargabyte]

If you want to cut down on lag try to remove as many connections as possible. so instead of pluging the audio cables into your tv and then using the audio out on the tv to run audio to your amp, just run the audio straight to the amp. if you need to you can get audio couplers at radio shack. here (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103236&cp=&sr=1&origkw=audio+coupler&kw=audio+coupler&parentPage=search)is what you would use.

The best way though is to use a digital audio cable. If you have a 1 or 2 year old tv or an amp that is less then 3 years old you should have digital audio connectiors. If it it is older than that you may want to still check. Digital audio has been around for a while now but it has only been common for a few years. The 360 and ps3 both have optical out connectors. The 360's is built into the av jack that you plug into the back of the 360. There is a little black square flap where the cable plugs in. Im not sure where the ps3's is.

If your run optical audio to an amp or directly to your tv you should have almost no lag. I have had my 360 setup like this since I got it and havent had any lag issues in gh2 or gh3.

[toelessfoot]

If you want to cut down on lag try to remove as many connections as possible. so instead of pluging the audio cables into your tv and then using the audio out on the tv to run audio to your amp, just run the audio straight to the amp. if you need to you can get audio couplers at radio shack. here (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103236&cp=&sr=1&origkw=audio+coupler&kw=audio+coupler&parentPage=search)is what you would use.

The best way though is to use a digital audio cable. If you have a 1 or 2 year old tv or an amp that is less then 3 years old you should have digital audio connectiors. If it it is older than that you may want to still check. Digital audio has been around for a while now but it has only been common for a few years. The 360 and ps3 both have optical out connectors. The 360's is built into the av jack that you plug into the back of the 360. There is a little black square flap where the cable plugs in. Im not sure where the ps3's is.

If your run optical audio to an amp or directly to your tv you should have almost no lag. I have had my 360 setup like this since I got it and havent had any lag issues in gh2 or gh3.

Nice yeah that's how i have it setup, optical cable direct to my Logitech z5500 or whatever they are (great speakers). I guess I should almost be lag free then, audiowise anyway.

[toelessfoot]

wow that sucks, i wonder what's causing the lag.

[Jman03]

I have my system set up this way (optical cable run directly from 360 to my Yamaha audio receiver) and I still have 50-100ms of lag. It's enough to make drum fills impossible and it's really bumming me out (I'm a drummer as well). Is there anything else I can do to kill the lag in my audio system?
It's kinda ironic that for movies and TV, etc., I actually need to ADD about 75ms of delay to my audio to make it sync with my video. Now I'm needing to go in the other direction...
Help would be great! Thanks!