Who do you think is the most overated guitarist

[kirkwood]

Im dying to know

[a21schizoidman]

jimmy page
/thread

[kirkwood]

you might have somthing there but he is like the greatest riff creator ever

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

you might have somthing there but he is like the greatest riff creator ever

Kind of a tie between him and Iommi with riffs. Page's riffs are really unique, but Iommi's are simple but iconic.

[kirkwood]

ya that is true.....you win,,,,,,ok now who else

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

Before anyone says Hendrix, he was a great songwriter and really inventive.

But maybe it was all the LSD that induced the talent. :p

[kirkwood]

he basicly paved the way for many

[gusano311]

pete towsend eric clapton imo. there great but i dont listen and go omg there guitar gods.

[soylee2]

Gotta be Herman Li. The guy cant play live, and has absolutely no soul to his guitar playing. On the other hand, Page and Iommi are easily the two greatest riff creators in the history of music, and both are talented technically whilst also being soulful (Page more than Iommi - Since I've Been Lovin' You - AHH!)

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

pete towsend eric clapton imo. there great but i dont listen and go omg there guitar gods.

Townshend isn't. With Clapton, listen to some of his Yardbirds or Cream solos.

[kirkwood]

ya jimmy has the most soul, and since ive been loving you is a great song

[Tender-Surrender]

Yea, Iommi is definately the Riff Master!!

[kirkwood]

i think pete townsend is way way overated

[gusano311]

imo they are< i have seen both live quite a few times. i really love cream that is about the olny time i clapton has wowed me. townsend is a great great guitarist but imo he is overated. dont even think he is a top 20 from his era. many other guitar guys from his time blow his doors off example carlos santana . dont get me wrong i do think he is good but overated.

[soylee2]

I didnt even know Townsend WAS rated lol. Outshined by his band members, but he's iconic as the first real "guitar rebel", and actually, his solo on Who Are You is pretty impressive for a rhythm player, and his Young Man Blues stuff is very good too. He's not like THE most godly guitarist to wield the axe, but hes better than alot.

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

ya jimmy has the most soul, and since ive been loving you is a great song

My vote goes to Eddie Hazel, SRV and David Gilmour as the most soulful.

But that's off topic. I'll agree that Herman Li is incredible overrated.

I hereby create "Julio's Law." The longer a music-related thread goes on, the more likely an insult to DragonForce is to be posted.

[soylee2]

Methinks Gilmour is the most soulful, though i do love SRV, and his contemporaries (Satriani, Steve Vai, Jeff Beck etc you know the guys). I haven't listened to much Eddie Hazel though, I'll check him out.

Julio's Law... might catch on. Though, it comes as such a universal instinct to insult DragonForce - they pretty much some up the GH franchise to me, especially the fanboy's who decide that DF are their fave band cos they herd their song on Guitar Hero.

[Tender-Surrender]

My vote goes to Eddie Hazel, SRV and David Gilmour as the most soulful.

But that's off topic. I'll agree that Herman Li is incredible overrated.

I hereby create "Julio's Law." The longer a music-related thread goes on, the more likely an insult to DragonForce is to be posted.


Ain't that the truth. Julio's Law is now in effect!

[gusano311]

also i kinda recall the best yardbirds work was done with jeff beck and jimmy page.who again imo are better them clapton and townsend.

[kirkwood]

very true, jeff is great but jimmy is amazing at riffs but there are better

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

very true, jeff is great but jimmy is amazing at riffs but there are better

The original Led Zeppelin was going to be Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Keith Moon, John Entwistle and an unspecified singer IIRC.

[soylee2]

Haha Julio - that would have been the most epic band ever.
Though, the more I look at it, the more it looks like "The Who: With Special Guests..."

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

Haha Julio - that would have been the most epic band ever.
Though, the more I look at it, the more it looks like "The Who: With Special Guests..."

That's what everyone at the Zeppelin forums said. :D

Imagine it, The Who and Zep (Zep were basically Jimmy's band)... with ORIGINAL LYRICS! Who'da thought? :D

[Mystlyfe77]

Most overrated: Herman Li

Also overrated: Pete Townshend, Kurt Cobain (people cite his "creativity" as making him a great guitarist), Kerry King

[soylee2]

Oh yeh, gotta say, Julio - EPIC sig lol.

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

Oh yeh, gotta say, Julio - EPIC sig lol.

Courtesy of Stephen Colbert. :D

[Mystlyfe77]

Courtesy of Stephen Colbert. :D

Can you change the color though? The blue just seems to blur and hurt my eyes for some reason on this monitor. Dunno why. lol.

[soylee2]

Yeh the colour is kinda irritating lol. Sheers through my eyes like dissapointment of Moving Pictures.

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

Yeh the colour is kinda irritating lol. Sheers through my eyes like dissapointment of Moving Pictures.

LOL. :D

fixedededed

[Shredder87]

Kind of a tie between him and Iommi with riffs. Page's riffs are really unique, but Iommi's are simple but iconic.
Iommi created everything that is man.

[soylee2]

Iommi created everything that is man.

Apart from everything that is wrong with man - emo, scremo, death metal, doom metal, gloom metal, vileploom metal.

[BhindBluEyes430]

jimmy page
/thread

Agreed......

I dont see how townshend is overrated just because he dosent solo dosent mean hes not an amazing guitarist. And he dose do solos just dosent record them because he gets bored of them and would rather play heavy chords and awesome rhythm. Greatest rhythm guitarist next to bo Diddley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUu0B63qnAI

also how can you deny pinball wizards epicness He is just a guitarist made of epicness

[Shredder87]

Also overrated: Kerry King

Well we all know he can't solo if his life depended on it, but both Kerry and Jeff have some mad riffing chops. It took me a LONG time to get the War Ensemble riff down.

Of course the best riffer ever is this guy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xpgXRIhrJw
God Abbath seems like a cool guy to kick it with. He's hilarious!!!

[gusano311]

Greatest rhythm guitarist next to bo Diddley imo that would be scott ian best second guitarist ever.

[instantdeath999]

Overrated threads are overrated.

[guitarguru2112]

Kurt Cobain

[Mystlyfe77]

Well we all know he can't solo if his life depended on it, but both Kerry and Jeff have some mad riffing chops. It took me a LONG time to get the War Ensemble riff down.

There is some truth to that. Seasons in the Abyss has one of my all time favorite riffs at the end of the intro section.


Apart from everything that is wrong with man - emo, scremo, death metal, doom metal, gloom metal, vileploom metal.

First off, no ripping on Death and Doom metal. Both awesome genres.
Seconly, Iommi basically did create Doom Metal. Doom metal is heavily inspired by Sabbath (to the point some bands essentially rip them off), particularly Iommi's riffing style.

[guitarguru2112]

Overrated threads are overrated.

Agreed! There have been a lot of them lately, first the overrated drummers, now guitarists. Next on the list will be the overrated trumpet players thread.

[Mystlyfe77]

Agreed! There have been a lot of them lately, first the overrated drummers, now guitarists. Next on the list will be the overrated trumpet players thread.

As a former Trumpet player, I'd love for more attention to be placed on such as wonderful instrument. :D

[a21schizoidman]

As a former Trumpet player, I'd love for more attention to be placed on such as wonderful instrument. :D

Magic Dick is underrated as a trumpet player

[guitarguru2112]

My theory is working!

[Hungryfreak]

I hereby create "Julio's Law." The longer a music-related thread goes on, the more likely an insult to DragonForce is to be posted.

Pfft... that theory obviously has no weight. I bet it's the complete opposite.






































HERMANLIISTHEMOSTOVERRATEDGUITARISTEVER
Dammit...

[HeavyChains]

Easily Slash.....

[instantdeath999]

Magic Dick is underrated as a trumpet player

Must... resist... commenting on the name.

Most underrated banjo players? Most underrated xylophone players? Most underrated triangle players?

[clashcityrocker10]

Must... resist... commenting on the name.

Most underrated banjo players? Most underrated xylophone players? Most underrated triangle players?

Don't forget about most underrated didgeridoo players.

[a21schizoidman]

Must... resist... commenting on the name.

Most underrated banjo players? Most underrated xylophone players? Most underrated triangle players?

its the nickname for the trumpet player/harmonica player from J Geils Band

[Mystlyfe77]

Don't forget about most underrated didgeridoo players.

Clearly me. I've never been praised for my didjeridu skills.


Yes, I actually have played one. In an actual concert.
Yes, it was sweet.

[jdweber1982]

Has to be whoever is in Bang Camaro. Let's overchart our songs so it looks like I'm awesome!!

[Hungryfreak]

Clearly me. I've never been praised for my didjeridu skills.


Yes, I actually have played one. In an actual concert.
Yes, it was sweet.

I tried once, but had trouble getting it to work. Then again, I didn't really have much time to mess around with it. Didgeridoos are awesome, though. Nice low sound. I would like to see a folk metal band use them.

[afterstasis]

I tried once, but had trouble getting it to work. Then again, I didn't really have much time to mess around with it. Didgeridoos are awesome, though. Nice low sound. I would like to see a folk metal band use them.

i occasionally use a didgeridoo in my drone-doom solo project.

[Hungryfreak]

You got any samples of it? Would love to hear it.

[BigMonkE]

Jimmy Page.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Randy Rhodes, Jason Becker, MAB, Yingwie Malmsteem, Brain May, and to some degree George Harrison.

HERMAN LI AND KURT COBAIN ARE UNDERRATED!!!

[Hungryfreak]

Herman Li can't shred. He can speed up the tracks to make it look like he shreds.

Cobain wasn't a great guitar player at all. He was, however, a great songwriter (though a VERY overrated one, too).

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

Randy Rhodes, Jason Becker, MAB, Yingwie Malmsteem, Brain May, and to some degree George Harrison.

HERMAN LI AND KURT COBAIN ARE UNDERRATED!!!

Did you get your bong in the mail yet?

[a21schizoidman]

Did you get your bong in the mail yet?

he wouldn't know what to do with it...

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

he wouldn't know what to do with it...

"MAAWWWWM! Why'd I get a penis pump in the mail?"

[My name is Fez]

Herman Li, probably.

Also, I never knew Pete Townsend was rated =p I've always considered The Who a bass and drum band (wonder why?)

But whatever.

And while I love Jimmy Page and consider him one of the best guitarists of all time, he IS overrated. Not like, ridiculously overrated. Just a little.

[a21schizoidman]

"MAAWWWWM! Why'd I get a penis pump in the mail?"

win .

[Rockbandfan23467]

Let me quote the GHG Post:


are people ever gonna realize that personal musical tastes have EVERYTHING to do with how a guitarist, or any musician for that matter, is recieved by the public? as a musician myself (no, i don't play guitar, but i perform regularly in four or five different groups in my town) it pisses me off to no end to hear/read about people who can't shut their mouths and just appreciate the music around them. i'm gonna get everything out right now, and if you have a problem with it, great, i'd love to hear it. here it goes:

1. Kurt Cobain has NEVER EVER beenhailed as a brilliant guitarist, even by those who are huge fans of his. he was a great songwriter and he pretty much single handedly ended the hair metal movement and started modern rock into a new direction. for that reason, i laugh every time i read that he's an overrated guitarist. just get over it. kurt cobain did more for his generation of music than most people in history, and nothing will ever change that.

2. I am so f***ing tired of people bagging on jack and meg white. first of all, in meg's case, if they needed her to be a good drummer for that band, she would be a better drummer by now. shes never had a lesson in her life, and the truth of it is, she has a natural instinct for playing what is NEEDED for a song, not what makes her sound good or what will impress other drummers. this is EXACTLY the reason that Ringo Starr is regarded as such a great member of the beatles, because he played what the music called for, not what his ego called for, which is a big problem in a lot of drummers.

as far as Jack White, has anyone here who has called him a bad guitarist heard him live? and if not, have you even heard any of his guitar work from elephant (seven nation army and hardest button to button don't count), try listening to ball and biscuit and then tell me he can't play. and after that, listen to his songs, not just his guitar work. the White Stripes are a MINIMALIST rock band. Jack writes songs, and if along the way he happens to add in a good guitar riff, fine, but first and foremost he is a songwriter.

3. How the f*** is srv underrated? i've heard a few people say this, and it makes absolutely no sense. when have you ever EVER asked a guitarist about srv and heard them respond with "who? oh, i think i heard of him once." never. i guaruntee it, or your money back. same goes for jimmy page, jimi hendrix, etc. etc. these people were pioneers who are widely recognized for what they did, so stop telling me that they haven't been given due credit.

4. Johnny Ramones invented the punk downstroke, but not even he will try and tell you he was a great guitarist. that alone is worthy of every single praise he's gotten. period.

5. Buckethead isn't overrated, nor is he underrated, he's just unknown. he plays fast because that's what he's good at, and until he becomes better known, that's what he'll do because that's how he's built a fanbase. no one else has the natural talent without the widescale success.

last but not least:
6. as long as there has been music, there has been the music critic. mozart killed himself from stress because he was trying to be better than he needed to be, just to prove that he was the best. people these days get so into talking about who's better than who that they forget what these people have given us to listen to. so go ahead, talk about how much kurt cobain sucks, and tell us about how jimi hendrix isn't the best, but maybe before you do take a minute to think about what music would be like without them.

[afterstasis]

You got any samples of it? Would love to hear it.

i've actually never uploaded any of it...
i may bite the bullet and put up a myspace page or something sometime. if so, i'll give you a head's up.
if you have a stomach for outside influences (mostly psychedelic folk and space-rock) then it may be up your alley.

[Hungryfreak]

1. Kurt Cobain has NEVER EVER beenhailed as a brilliant guitarist, even by those who are huge fans of his. he was a great songwriter and he pretty much single handedly ended the hair metal movement and started modern rock into a new direction. for that reason, i laugh every time i read that he's an overrated guitarist. just get over it. kurt cobain did more for his generation of music than most people in history, and nothing will ever change that.


Have you checked many "greatest guitarists of all time" lists? Cobain manages to rank on a lot of them. If people only considered him a great songwriter, he wouldn't be on any of those lists. He may have changed the course of music history, but it sure wasn't his guitar skillz that did it.


i've actually never uploaded any of it...
i may bite the bullet and put up a myspace page or something sometime. if so, i'll give you a head's up.
if you have a stomach for outside influences (mostly psychedelic folk and space-rock) then it may be up your alley.

Yeah, as much as I hate myspace, it is good for that sort of thing.

I'm definitely interested. Not that I ever kept up with the genre much, but I haven't heard anything about space rock since UFO's earlier material, haha.

[JukeBoxHero]

i've actually never uploaded any of it...
i may bite the bullet and put up a myspace page or something sometime. if so, i'll give you a head's up.
if you have a stomach for outside influences (mostly psychedelic folk and space-rock) then it may be up your alley.

If I could interject, I would also to see samples of your work if you did upload it.

[instantdeath999]

Randy Rhodes, Jason Becker, MAB, Yingwie Malmsteem, Brain May, and to some degree George Harrison.

HERMAN LI AND KURT COBAIN ARE UNDERRATED!!!

Herman Li is, anyway. He is commonly criticized of being the worst guitar player on earth, which is not true... he just tries to play something he really cannot play. If Dragonforce would simplify their music, he might be pretty good. So in a way, he is underrated.

I don't think Kurt Cobain was bad, either, especially after listening to the "Unplugged in New York" album.

[Ultimatum]

Angus Young

/thread

[Ultimatum]

Randy Rhodes, Jason Becker, MAB, Yingwie Malmsteem, Brain May, and to some degree George Harrison.

HERMAN LI AND KURT COBAIN ARE UNDERRATED!!!

How is Jason Becker overrated?

The man has ALS for Christ's sake and made 2 studio albums while having ALS.

[topperharley]

Easily Slash.....

I agree 100%

[Johnny Staccato]

Angus Young

/thread

That was gonna be my choice...

[Rockbandfan23467]

Show me a greatest Guitarist list OTHER THAN THE ONE FROM ROLLING STONE where Kurt is placed highly.

[Ultimatum]

Show me a greatest Guitarist list OTHER THAN THE ONE FROM ROLLING STONE where Kurt is placed highly.

Show me how Becker is overrated.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Show me how Becker is overrated.

Were you at the original Guitar Hero Boards? They had an annoying member named Teh_Jakester that was obsessed with him! Several others were too.

[AxlVanHagar]

Jason Becker is under rated if anything. ALS cut his guitar playing career short. He should have been a "house hold name". Damn shame. Dude has balls of steel for soldiering on the way he has. Great player when he could play.

[Ultimatum]

Were you at the original Guitar Hero Boards? They had an annoying member named Teh_Jakester that was obsessed with him! Several others were too.

Alright, I have a challenge for you.

Try making music after coming down with ALS. Even when he didn't have ALS, he was one incredible player. Pertual Burn and Perspectives were two of the best releases that Guitar Virtuosos ever came out with.

He is damn good, people have the right to obsess over him, and I don't blame them, the man is a huge inspiration by continuing to make music even with ALS. He was just beginning to show his full abilities when his career was tragically cut short by ALS.

Judging from your posts, I can see that you've never listened to his work with an open mind.

[Mystlyfe77]

Show me a greatest Guitarist list OTHER THAN THE ONE FROM ROLLING STONE where Kurt is placed highly.

http://www.guitarmx.com/blog/index.php/gigwise-ranks-the-top-50-greatest-guitarists-ever/
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/chat/40944-top-100-guitarists-voted-total-guitar-readers.html
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-496821.html

[Rockbandfan23467]

http://www.guitarmx.com/blog/index.php/gigwise-ranks-the-top-50-greatest-guitarists-ever/
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/chat/40944-top-100-guitarists-voted-total-guitar-readers.html
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-496821.html

That last one does not count. It was made by forum-goes.

[Shredder87]

That last one does not count. It was made by forum-goes.
He still got you with two other ones

[Rockbandfan23467]

He still got you with two other ones

Well, here's a list where Cobain isn't even in the top 200! (digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_newguitar.html)

[Mystlyfe77]

That last one does not count. It was made by forum-goes.

So? Still proves he gets praise. Word of mouth praise by fans is just as important as critical praise, if not more so.

[Mystlyfe77]

I tried once, but had trouble getting it to work. Then again, I didn't really have much time to mess around with it. Didgeridoos are awesome, though. Nice low sound. I would like to see a folk metal band use them.

Not really folk metal, but Ayreon uses them in the song "Day Sixteen: Loser"

[instantdeath999]

I've never fully understood what is meant when someone say's a musician is "overrated". Is that judging by a technical standpoint? If so, than Kurt Cobain and Angus Young aren't very good. Or are we judging by a writing standpoint?

[Ultimatum]

Well, here's a list where Cobain isn't even in the top 200! (digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_newguitar.html)

They put Hendrix at the top....

Of all the great, innovative guitarists, they put Hendrix.

And Zappa's only 39.....


It's clearly using popularity as a weight, because some of the greatest guitarists out there are near the bottom, like Mattias Eklundh, who has written many books and DVDs and held many clinics about odd-time playing and shredding, and he's not even in the Top 200.

[Hungryfreak]

Zappa never gets enough credit. In my experience, I have never seen him in anyone's top 10. Luckily, fortunately, he does manage to make a lot of the lists in the first place.

Jimi Hendrix topped all of those lists. He really does deserve a lot of the credit, though

[Hungryfreak]

Not really folk metal, but Ayreon uses them in the song "Day Sixteen: Loser"

I'm going to have to check that one out.

[Rockbandfan23467]

I've never fully understood what is meant when someone say's a musician is "overrated". Is that judging by a technical standpoint? If so, than Kurt Cobain and Angus Young aren't very good. Or are we judging by a writing standpoint?

It means that they get more praise than they deserve. Jimmy Page, for example, gets a ton of praise, so someone might think he is overrated. Ovarrated is not the same as bad. I think David Gilmour is a little overrated but I still really like him.

[Rockbandfan23467]

They put Hendrix at the top....

Of all the great, innovative guitarists, they put Hendrix.

And Zappa's only 39.....


It's clearly using popularity as a weight, because some of the greatest guitarists out there are near the bottom, like Mattias Eklundh, who has written many books and DVDs and held many clinics about odd-time playing and shredding, and he's not even in the Top 200.

You know that Jimi is a one hit Wonder, right? (As is Zappa, BTW) He's guitar abilites are second to none.(at least in Rock and it's subgenres.) He was good both Technicly and he had soul. There are thousands of reasons why he should be number one, but I don't really know them, so do your research.

[instantdeath999]

You know that Jimi is a one hit Wonder, right? He's guitar abilites are second to none.(at least in Rock and it's subgenres.) He was good both Technicly and he had soul. There are thousands of reasons why he should be number one, but I don't really know them, so do your research.

One hit wonder? Maybe in terms of charts... but he had many very good songs.

[GNRrockslife]

The Edge gets my vote.

And just for the record, I nominate Mick Mars as most underrated.

[Ultimatum]

You know that Jimi is a one hit Wonder, right? (As is Zappa, BTW) He's guitar abilites are second to none.(at least in Rock and it's subgenres.) He was good both Technicly and he had soul. There are thousands of reasons why he should be number one, but I don't really know them, so do your research.

Did he arrange Classical music like FZ? Did he pioneer new studio recording techniques?

Most of all, could he randomly pull out odd-time signature jams that even the world's greatest percussionists had trouble with?

[Mystlyfe77]

I've never fully understood what is meant when someone say's a musician is "overrated". Is that judging by a technical standpoint? If so, than Kurt Cobain and Angus Young aren't very good. Or are we judging by a writing standpoint?

From any standpoint Cobain is overrated. His "creativity" and "song writing" are often why he rates high, but even Cobain admitted he essentially ripped off riffs. Even he said Smells Like Teen Spirit's main riff is based off of More Than a Feeling. Tons of other circumstantial evidence that other songs of his are based off the Pixies and other bands.

[Runesmith]

Did he arrange Classical music like FZ? Did he pioneer new studio recording techniques?

Most of all, could he randomly pull out odd-time signature jams that even the world's greatest percussionists had trouble with?

It's not really a classical piece, per se, but Jimi is pretty famous for translating the star spangled banner (bombs and all) into guitar form.


From any standpoint Cobain is overrated. His "creativity" and "song writing" are often why he rates high, but even Cobain admitted he essentially ripped off riffs. Even he said Smells Like Teen Spirit's main riff is based off of More Than a Feeling. Tons of other circumstantial evidence that other songs of his are based off the Pixies and other bands.

As a huge Nirvana fan and an even bigger fan of Kurt's guitar playing abilities (or, more appropriately, lack thereof), I'll be the first to say this is a perfectly acceptable viewpoint. He did copy a lot of riffs and techniques from other bands and musicians. However, the reason why I like Kurt so much is because he was able to take every thing The Pixies had - unique use of distortion, stop-start/soft-loud dynamics, oddball songwriting - and perfect them.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Ultimatum]

From any standpoint Cobain is overrated. His "creativity" and "song writing" are often why he rates high, but even Cobain admitted he essentially ripped off riffs. Even he said Smells Like Teen Spirit's main riff is based off of More Than a Feeling. Tons of other circumstantial evidence that other songs of his are based off the Pixies and other bands.

I'm pretty sure it was a Pixies song, not MTAF.

[Mystlyfe77]

I'm pretty sure it was a Pixies song, not MTAF.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/6596345/more_than_a_feeling

Krist Novoselic sang the lyrics to "More Than a feeling" during a performance of SLTS in 92.

[Ferocious Q]

that dick from the who, slash, and keith richards. ewww

[Ultimatum]

Pete Townshend?

You mean the person that single-handedly wrote almost every Who album, wrote both of their movies, and is now a very good solo artist with a voice that is all his own, that also happens to be a multi-instrumentalist on top of being a vocalist?

Yeah, definitely overrated.

[shwingles]

Pete Townshend?

You mean the person that single-handedly wrote almost every Who album, wrote both of their movies, and is now a very good solo artist with a voice that is all his own, that also happens to be a multi-instrumentalist on top of being a vocalist?

Yeah, definitely overrated.

what can you expect from someone who wants slipknot, korn, AND dragonforce in rockband?

[Ultimatum]

Oh wow, didn't even notice that one.

[instantdeath999]

From any standpoint Cobain is overrated. His "creativity" and "song writing" are often why he rates high, but even Cobain admitted he essentially ripped off riffs. Even he said Smells Like Teen Spirit's main riff is based off of More Than a Feeling. Tons of other circumstantial evidence that other songs of his are based off the Pixies and other bands.

While I don't know about the riff, I know the "loud-quiet" technique was borrowed from "Tame" by the Pixies.


that dick from the who, slash, and keith richards. ewww

I'd expect nothing less from you. I somewhat agree on slash, but not on Pete Townshend or Keith Richards.

[Ultimatum]

Apparently if they can't shred they're not good in his opinion.

[Rockbandfan23467]

While I don't know about the riff, I know the "loud-quiet" technique was borrowed from "Tame" by the Pixies.

The Pixes invented that formula. It's as signifficant as the Bo Diddly Beat.

[lufoxe]

I'm actually going to say 2 different ones, one being zakk wylde (while his solo's seem impressive they are very repetitive) and Joe satriani, while being very technical there is no heart and soul into his solos (see anything live with him)

[jmiscavish]

I think most of the 'shredders' are pretty overrated. Playing fast does not always a good guitarist make.

I always thought that Peter Frampton was pretty overrated.

I used to think Hendrix was way overrated, then I listened to his whole greatest hits and decided he is the best guitarist of all time. So many people have covered hey joe and voodoo chile that I hadn't given him any credit. Red House is epic.

[instantdeath999]

I'm actually going to say 2 different ones, one being zakk wylde (while his solo's seem impressive they are very repetitive) and Joe satriani, while being very technical there is no heart and soul into his solos (see anything live with him)

I don't get when people use "he has no soul in his music" as criticism. Joe Satriani is a very good guitarist, and I'm not quite sure how he has "less soul" than others.

[lufoxe]

when you play an instrument, there is a difference on playing the music and feeling the music. Unfortunately it's a bit hard to describe. THe best analogy is someone who plays rock band, and someone who plays rock band for their love of the rock genre. You know the people.

[instantdeath999]

when you play an instrument, there is a difference on playing the music and feeling the music. Unfortunately it's a bit hard to describe. THe best analogy is someone who plays rock band, and someone who plays rock band for their love of the rock genre. You know the people.

I'm not a huge fan of Satriani (not that I don't like him, I haven't heard much of his music), and I like your analogy a lot, but what about him gives the impression that he isn't feeling the music?

[lufoxe]

on stage when he plays he gives off the "I'm fast now watch me play" look. he plays it because he knows the structure of scales and how they relate to solo (which makes him smart musically but that's another thread for another time) but again just cause you know it...

[instantdeath999]

I see what you mean.

[Gatorguy91]

jimmy page
/thread

this was my thought.

[jmiscavish]

Well, clapton, SRV, Hendrix make their guitar sing and talk. They make whole melodic phrases.

Satriani is very experimental and tries to use funny scales and things just to sound cool.

I disagree with lufoxe, though. I think everybody just plays rock band to have fun. You can't compare anyone who plays rock band to actual musicians, even though the two may overlap.

[Shredder87]

I'm not a huge fan of Satriani (not that I don't like him, I haven't heard much of his music), and I like your analogy a lot, but what about him gives the impression that he isn't feeling the music?
Wait what?

If you watch that Little Wing jam with Vai and that douche Yngwie, he's the only one that gives that song justice.

I do want to put Yngwie's name out there by the way.

Edit-Quoted the wrong guy. hahahaha

[Mystlyfe77]

While I don't know about the riff, I know the "loud-quiet" technique was borrowed from "Tame" by the Pixies.

Yeah, I know about that. In general Cobain just took stuff from other bands was my point.

[QuickstrikePr0]

Slash, The Guns n' Roses Guitarist, and Herman Li, that crazy Dragonforce guitarist whose not so crazy...

[HeavyChains]

I think most of the 'shredders' are pretty overrated. Playing fast does not always a good guitarist make.

I always thought that Peter Frampton was pretty overrated.

I used to think Hendrix was way overrated, then I listened to his whole greatest hits and decided he is the best guitarist of all time. So many people have covered hey joe and voodoo chile that I hadn't given him any credit. Red House is epic.
I think most of the blues players are pretty over-rated.


I don't get when people use "he has no soul in his music" as criticism. Joe Satriani is a very good guitarist, and I'm not quite sure how he has "less soul" than others.
That's the most old used out excuse for blues fans. They know deep inside they'd get destroyed by the shredders knowing that shredders are more versatile and more skilled.

Wait what?

If you watch that Little Wing jam with Vai and that douche Yngwie, he's the only one that gives that song justice.

I do want to put Yngwie's name out there by the way.

Edit-Quoted the wrong guy. hahahaha
Even Vai said Yngwie is one of the best Guitarists in the world. :rolleyes:

[instantdeath999]

Yeah, I know about that. In general Cobain just took stuff from other bands was my point.

The whole "Bleach" album was borrowed from many of the Alternative bands that were influencing him at the time.

[Ultimatum]

I think most of the blues players are pretty over-rated.


That's the most old used out excuse for blues fans. They know deep inside they'd get destroyed by the shredders knowing that shredders are more versatile and more skilled.

Even Vai said Yngwie is one of the best Guitarists in the world. :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure Yngwie can't shred in odd-time.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Chuck Berry.

[lufoxe]

Chuck Berry.
Chuck Berry wasn't a great guitarist. was he good and way different for his time? Yes. But alot of his songs sound the same. (almost every one).
influential? Definately, he paved the way for other who ripped off of him (such as the beach boys) which you might not think influenced rick today, but in a indeirect way, he has (Band X was influenced by the beach boys, whom influenced band Y etc..., unfortunately I cannot think of a band off the top of my head) Many things in music start with a domino effect. Many of Rock's influences stem from blues, which many of blues influences definately stem from jazz... (a perfect example are solos and structures there off, as well of the odd timings found in zeppelin)

[a21schizoidman]

I think most of the blues players are pretty over-rated.


That's the most old used out excuse for blues fans. They know deep inside they'd get destroyed by the shredders knowing that shredders are more versatile and more skilled.

Even Vai said Yngwie is one of the best Guitarists in the world. :rolleyes:

hahahahahahahahaha most blues and ANY jazz fusion guitarist is waaaaaaaay more skilled than most shredders

[Shredder87]

hahahahahahahahaha most blues and ANY jazz fusion guitarist is waaaaaaaay more skilled than most shredders
That is true.....

You hear a lot about guitarists wanting to learn jazz, but it's just too tricky and complicated.

[a21schizoidman]

That is true.....

You hear a lot about guitarists wanting to learn jazz, but it's just too tricky and complicated.

yeah, jazz to me is like blues with no limits, while I respect shredders and metal guitarists, saying they all have more talent and versitality and skill than a blues or jazz or esp. a jazz fusion guitarist is ignorant

[Hungryfreak]

Ah, but what about jazz metal? That little niche does have some amazing musicians. Just look at Atheist or Cynic.

[Ultimatum]

Carcass' guitarist is now a fanatic Blues guitarist.

[Shredder87]

Carcass' guitarist is now a fanatic Blues guitarist.
He was probably one to begin with, like Mick Mars.

[Ultimatum]

Yeah, he started Blues, but I mean he is now completely and helplessly obsessed with Blues, to the point where he called his Carcass material "juvenile and childish."

[clostor]

^ actually he reunited with carcass so he's either desperate for cash or he's changed his mind about carcass being "childish"

[Hungryfreak]

Yeah, was just reading a Carcass interview the other day where he was talking about how horrible he thought the earlier material was.

Steve Flynn, Atheist's drummer, is really obsessed with all music of technical nature including prog, metal and jazz. His taste encompasses the music he plays, though, haha.

[HeavyChains]

hahahahahahahahaha most blues and ANY jazz fusion guitarist is waaaaaaaay more skilled than most shredders

I only mentioned blues. Don't put words that didn't come out of my mouth. You fail!

[a21schizoidman]

hahahaha sucks for you I only mentioned blues. Don't put words that didn't come out of my mouth. You fail!

I also mentioned BLUES in that sentence, learn to read

lets see your shredders take on Roy Buchanan, or Sonny Landreth, or Les Paul (who played Blues, Country, and Jazz)

[Ultimatum]

^ actually he reunited with carcass so he's either desperate for cash or he's changed his mind about carcass being "childish"

He definitely wants the cash, either way, he was peddling for attention, either for his Blues band or Carcass.

And speaking of dbags reuniting with their old bands. Patrick Mameli reunited with Pestilence, when asked why no other notable members were joining him, he responded with "I need musicians that are on my level, since those people can't play on my level, I will not play with them," or something to that effect. Yes, this is the same Patrick that drove Pestilence into the ground after TotA and formed the Nu-Metal band C-187.

[HeavyChains]

I also mentioned BLUES in that sentence, learn to read

lets see your shredders take on Roy Buchanan, or Sonny Landreth, or Les Paul (who played Blues, Country, and Jazz)

Old guys I never would care to listen to. Never heard of the second guy either. How about asking those guys if they can play Malmsteen and Gilbert's stuff? :rolleyes:

[Ultimatum]

Odd-time beats out shredding by miles and miles.

[Shredder87]

Old guys I never would care to listen to. Never heard of the second guy either. How about asking those guys if they can play Malmsteen and Gilbert's stuff? :rolleyes:
Too bad Yngvie sucks.


I heard Gilbert could be Buckethead.

[a21schizoidman]

Old guys I never would care to listen to. Never heard of the second guy either. How about asking those guys if they can play Malmsteen and Gilbert's stuff? :rolleyes:

LES PAUL- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXSXOAfB4U

yeah, he beats the **** outta them

here's Les Paul with Chet Atkins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByGsHTlKmWk&feature=related

Roy Buchanan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z4hEjbA5Dc&feature=related

Sonny Landreth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oNFRWXDSA8

Johnny Winter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8siLZ4zNbY

Roy Rogers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvVOgn4RYKw

[Metallican]

Herman Li. Enough said.

[instantdeath999]

Old guys I never would care to listen to. Never heard of the second guy either. How about asking those guys if they can play Malmsteen and Gilbert's stuff? :rolleyes:

Asking a Blues guitarist to shred is ridiculous. Asking a shredder to play a blues song is ridiculous. It's just a difference in styles.

[a21schizoidman]

Asking a Blues guitarist to shred is ridiculous. Asking a shredder to play a blues song is ridiculous. It's just a difference in styles.

well, did you watch those vids of Blues guitarists I posted?

[instantdeath999]

well, did you watch those vids of Blues guitarists I posted?

I guess I'll have to do that...

I do agree they are easily more skilled, though.

[Ultimatum]

Herman Li. Enough said.

Someone already beat you.

And, the amount of people that knows he can't play what he records probably outweighs those that think he's good.

[Shredder87]

Someone already beat you.

And, the amount of people that knows he can't play what he records probably outweighs those that think he's good.
I do give Herman this though, the man can play guitar. Is he a good songwriter? God no.

[instantdeath999]

I do give Herman this though, the man can play guitar. Is he a good songwriter? God no.

He can definitely play... he just can't play what he pretends to play on the records.

If he would just simplify his music, he might be a pretty good live guitarist...

[Shredder87]

He can definitely play... he just can't play what he pretends to play on the records.

If he would just simplify his music, he might be a pretty good live guitarist...
well even then, god damn Macintosh drowns them out live. I know sadly.

[Ultimatum]

It's the trend sadly.

Put the drums at 11, everything else at 8.

[HeavyChains]

Too bad Yngvie sucks.


I heard Gilbert could be Buckethead.

Too bad it isn't true in both cases. Yngwie is a Legend who's influenced the shred genre/neoclassical style. I think you need to change your screen name.

Buckethead is real good, but not even close to PG's level yet. Plus he gave lessons to Buckethead.

[a21schizoidman]

Too bad it isn't true in both cases. Yngwie is a Legend who's influenced the shred genre/neoclassical style. I think you need to change your screen name.

Buckethead is real good, but not even close to PG's level yet. Plus he gave lessons to Buckethead.

dude,
Shredder87 >>>>>>> you

[Ultimatum]

Yngwie is also an egocentrical person who masterbates all over songs.

His NeoClassical album was a mess and his cover of Dream On with Dio was disgusting (Dio nailed it, but Yngwie ruined it).

He's a legend purely because he plays fast, but not musically.

[HeavyChains]

dude,
Shredder87 >>>>>>> you
By saying Yngwie sucks ....he owns me? pssshhh lame


Yngwie is also an egocentrical person who masterbates all over songs.

His NeoClassical album was a mess and his cover of Dream On with Dio was disgusting (Dio nailed it, but Yngwie ruined it).

He's a legend purely because he plays fast, but not musically.

Are you talking about his debut solo album? That album had some of the best instrumental masterpieces and you call it a mess? It was nominated for a grammy if I'm correct. He changed the way the guitar was played. Numerous Yngwie clones came after. Yeah he's a legend cause he influenced so many metal players and bands around the world. And he's always fun to watch live fat or skinny.

[a21schizoidman]

By saying Yngwie sucks ....he owns me? pssshhh lame



Are you talking about his debut solo album? That album had some of the best instrumental masterpieces and you call it a mess? It was nominated for a grammy if I'm correct. He changed the way the guitar was played. Numerous Yngwie clones came after. Yeah he's a legend cause he influenced so many metal players and bands around the world. And he's always fun to watch live fat or skinny.

hahahahahahaha everyone you say he influenced, was actually influenced by Al Di Meola

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atz9vzTAUh0

[Mystlyfe77]

Has anyone seen the episode of Metalocalypse titled "Bluesklok", where "Mashed Potato Johnson" attempts to teach Dethklok to play the blues?
That's a lot like what this debate is like.
Shred guitar and blues guitar are two entirely different styles. Comparing them is like comparing apples to tire irons. They require two different musical mindsets. I'd certainly expect a blues guitarist to come up with something that sounds better in blues and pentatonic scales than a shred guitarist, but I'd expect a shred guitarist to be able to run up and down arpeggios and sweep pick faster.

[HeavyChains]

[QUOTE=a21schizoidman;1164888]hahahahahahaha everyone you say he influenced, was actually influenced by Al Di Meola

But too bad for you everyone mentions Yngwie more and rarely mentions that guy when they talk about shred influences. :p

[a21schizoidman]

But too bad for you everyone mentions Yngwie more and rarely mentions that guy when they talk about shred influences. :p

well, considering he came waaaay before yngwie and most likey influenced him himself, id say he's much more influential

and also considering, most guitarists STILL cant play that song

[HeavyChains]

^ Which proves why I like shred and not blues.:cool:

[a21schizoidman]

^ Which proves why I like shred and not blues.:cool:

well, considering Al pretty much INVENTED SHREDDING and isn't blues...

hes JAZZ FUSION dumbass

[Mystlyfe77]

This thread has decayed into the realm of epic fail.

[instantdeath999]

This thread has decayed into the realm of epic fail.

Any thread asking for what you don't like is pretty much destined to fail.

[Runesmith]

Has anyone seen the episode of Metalocalypse titled "Bluesklok", where "Mashed Potato Johnson" attempts to teach Dethklok to play the blues?
That's a lot like what this debate is like.
Shred guitar and blues guitar are two entirely different styles. Comparing them is like comparing apples to tire irons. They require two different musical mindsets. I'd certainly expect a blues guitarist to come up with something that sounds better in blues and pentatonic scales than a shred guitarist, but I'd expect a shred guitarist to be able to run up and down arpeggios and sweep pick faster.

Great post. I'm not a Metalocalypse fan (please don't kill me), but I'm now really interested in seeing that episode.

I firmly believe you can't really compare musicians of one genre with musicians of another completely different genre. A talented jazz bassist might be excellent in a jazz or fusion group, but you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd be confused as hell if he was placed in a punk or goth band. Each genre has their own standard or measure of talent.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Any thread asking for what you don't like is pretty much destined to fail.

Overrated is not the same as not liking them. Queen is overrated but I think they are alright, not bad.

[instantdeath999]

Overrated is not the same as not liking them. Queen is overrated but I think they are alright, not bad.

Saying something is overrated usually leads to insulting whatever you just called overrated.

[Weeping Guitar]

Any type of metal guitarist that is from a Metal band that know one has heard of except wierd metal fans

[afterstasis]

Any type of metal guitarist that is from a Metal band that know one has heard of except wierd metal fans

i agree.
bands that no one has heard of are very overrated. :confused:

[a21schizoidman]

i agree.
bands that no one has heard of are very overrated. :confused:

qft .

[Ultimatum]

By saying Yngwie sucks ....he owns me? pssshhh lame



Are you talking about his debut solo album? That album had some of the best instrumental masterpieces and you call it a mess? It was nominated for a grammy if I'm correct. He changed the way the guitar was played. Numerous Yngwie clones came after. Yeah he's a legend cause he influenced so many metal players and bands around the world. And he's always fun to watch live fat or skinny.

I'm not talking about the debut, I'm talking about the album where he has a full orchestra and just shreds above it.

[Shredder87]

Too bad it isn't true in both cases. Yngwie is a Legend who's influenced the shred genre/neoclassical style. I think you need to change your screen name.

Buckethead is real good, but not even close to PG's level yet. Plus he gave lessons to Buckethead.
Dude, all Yngwie does is play this crap sweeps. He **** all over Little Wing. I mean completely squated down and crapped all over it. "Oh look at me, I'm trying to outshred Vai and Satriani." Which brings me to my other point. No other guitarist has influenced the shred guitarist more than Satriani(And EVH). Satch only did teach half of the shredders to come out in the 80s, and Yngwie looks up to the dude. You should get your facts straight before you go out making bold statements.

...and people think PG is buckethead FOR THAT REASON ALONE!!!! Research dude. Research.

[a21schizoidman]

Dude, all Yngwie does is play this crap sweeps. He **** all over Little Wing. I mean completely squated down and crapped all over it. "Oh look at me, I'm trying to outshred Vai and Satriani." Which brings me to my other point. No other guitarist has influenced the shred guitarist more than Satriani(And EVH). Satch only did teach half of the shredders to come out in the 80s, and Yngwie looks up to the dude. You should get your facts straight before you go out making bold statements.

...and people think PG is buckethead FOR THAT REASON ALONE!!!! Research dude. Research.


Di Meola often closes out shows with an energetic rendition of one of his most challenging (to play, that is) pieces, "Race with Devil on Spanish Highway", from the Elegant Gypsy album. Even in technical showcases like this, he combines blindingly fast scalar runs with subtle, dazzling rhythms, and melodic phrases. Because of his early recordings, Di Meola became arguably the most important pioneer of shred guitar, influencing guitarists such as Yngwie Malmsteen (with whom he appeared on keyboardist Derek Sherinian's solo album Black Utopia (2003)). However, in most cases after the early 1980s, Di Meola has largely distanced himself from this approach. In various interviews, Di Meola has stated that his reason for stepping away from the electric guitar is due to hearing damage (manifested as tinnitus) from years of playing at excessive volumes; the acoustic guitar does not aggravate his condition.

to just clearify for both of you (and Shredder87, you know I have the utmost respect for you, so dont take this too personally)

[Shredder87]

to just clearify for both of you (and Shredder87, you know I have the utmost respect for you, so dont take this too personally)
Good post there my good chum. But I would like to point out, that that one quote does contain the phrase "arguably". So his name would be up there in this trifecta of men. These cadillac of early shred.

[a21schizoidman]

Good post there my good chum. But I would like to point out, that that one quote does contain the phrase "arguably". So his name would be up there in this trifecta of men. These cadillac of early shred.

yeah, good point, but ive seen that in so many places and heard it from even some big metalheads who've heard "Race with the Devil..." that he did pioneer early shred massively (and also to point out that Satch started after Al (78 for Satch, "Race" alone was in 74) and that really to start all of it was bass players with finger tapping (where EVH got the idea)

[Ultimatum]

Dude, all Yngwie does is play this crap sweeps. He **** all over Little Wing. I mean completely squated down and crapped all over it. "Oh look at me, I'm trying to outshred Vai and Satriani." Which brings me to my other point. No other guitarist has influenced the shred guitarist more than Satriani(And EVH). Satch only did teach half of the shredders to come out in the 80s, and Yngwie looks up to the dude. You should get your facts straight before you go out making bold statements.

...and people think PG is buckethead FOR THAT REASON ALONE!!!! Research dude. Research.

Have you ever seen that picture of Buckethead when he was around 19ish?

[Shredder87]

Have you ever seen that picture of Buckethead when he was around 19ish?
Yeah, it's pretty insane. And it's like the only picture of the dude. My friend knows where he lives. He's only like 2 hours away from my house.

[Ultimatum]

I brought that up because it looks completely different from PG to me.

However, if PG did somehow pull off the largest hoax ever since Peter Criss was impersonated by a homeless man, I give him made props.

[Shredder87]

I brought that up because it looks completely different from PG to me.

However, if PG did somehow pull off the largest hoax ever since Peter Criss was impersonated by a homeless man, I give him made props.
Exactly. Who knows. Who the hell knows.

We think it's a conspiracy, though Buckethead is like 11 feet 10, and Paul is like 5 something.

[HeavyChains]

well, considering Al pretty much INVENTED SHREDDING and isn't blues...

hes JAZZ FUSION dumbass
Did I say he was blues?! That was an impressive work, no way would I be in awe of your oldies blues.


Have you ever seen that picture of Buckethead when he was around 19ish?


Dude, all Yngwie does is play this crap sweeps. He **** all over Little Wing. I mean completely squated down and crapped all over it. "Oh look at me, I'm trying to outshred Vai and Satriani." Which brings me to my other point. No other guitarist has influenced the shred guitarist more than Satriani(And EVH). Satch only did teach half of the shredders to come out in the 80s, and Yngwie looks up to the dude. You should get your facts straight before you go out making bold statements.

...and people think PG is buckethead FOR THAT REASON ALONE!!!! Research dude. Research.
Satch can't sweep.(if he can I haven't heard it) Either can EVH. Those guys got the radio play back in the day. I only heard Yngwie's stuff in the early 90's from a friend's tape. And Yngwie clearly blew me away compared to those two. Satch is great at playing the slow ballad type songs. I don't consider hiim a shredder. EVH used to be a shredder.


Exactly. Who knows. Who the hell knows.

We think it's a conspiracy, though Buckethead is like 11 feet 10, and Paul is like 5 something.
Paul is around 6'4 himself. And No he's not BH. Like I said BH is great but not superb like PG is.

[bassHero]

Cobain. He sounds so lazy

[Ultimatum]

Satch can't sweep.(if he can I haven't heard it) Either can EVH. Those guys got the radio play back in the day. I only heard Yngwie's stuff in the early 90's from a friend's tape. And Yngwie clearly blew me away compared to those two. Satch is great at playing the slow ballad type songs. I don't consider hiim a shredder. EVH used to be a shredder.

Did you just say that Satriani wasn't a shredder?

Do you really mean the same Surfing With An Alien Satriani?

[Shredder87]

Did you just say that Satriani wasn't a shredder?

Do you really mean the same Surfing With An Alien Satriani?
Yeah, the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. That's like saying Peanut Butter is really chocolate.

Many guitarists can sweep. They can sweep quite efficiently(Dimebag, Hammet). They just choose not to since sweeping can sound redundant after a while. Satch can definately sweep.

[Ledgo2]

Slash.

ZOMG Slash.

[Setsu102]

Jimmy Hendrix. He made some great hits, but I'm not as big of a fan of him as most people are or at least ACT like they are.

[a21schizoidman]

Jimmy Hendrix. He made some great hits, but I'm not as big of a fan of him as most people are or at least ACT like they are.

never even heard of Jimmy Hendrix, so how can he be overrated?


Jimi Hendrix on the other hand, is far from overrated

[a21schizoidman]

Did I say he was blues?! That was an impressive work, no way would I be in awe of your oldies blues.

here was your repsonse to that video

^ Which proves why I like shred and not blues.

you said he was blues dumbass, and if you ever did watch those blues videos, and understand how impressive that is, you would burn your stupid yngwie tapes now

[HeavyChains]

here was your repsonse to that video


you said he was blues dumbass, and if you ever did watch those blues videos, and understand how impressive that is, you would burn your stupid yngwie tapes now

No you stupid piecee of sh1t, I was referring to his shred style.....it shows why I don't like blues so stfu already. And stick your old man blues up your azz.

[a21schizoidman]

No you stupid piecee of sh1t, I was referring to his shred style.....it shows why I don't like blues so stfu already. And stick your old man blues up your azz.

see, this is why I must continue, why does it have to be old man blues?

there are still plenty of excellent young blues musicians here, and lots of metalheads that will agree with me that many blues guitarists are among the best (including Hendrix and SRV) and MANY metal guitarists also are HEAVILY influenced by blues guitarists


so, I guess, shove it up your own ass? but you can't cuz you're too busy talking out of it

[Shredder87]

see, this is why I must continue, why does it have to be old man blues?

there are still plenty of excellent young blues musicians here, and lots of metalheads that will agree with me that many blues guitarists are among the best (including Hendrix and SRV) and MANY metal guitarists also are HEAVILY influenced by blues guitarists

so, I guess, shove it up your own ass? but you can't cuz you're too busy talking out of it


I know I am, as is the case with many guitarists that I know.

[OldFogey]

to just clearify for both of you (and Shredder87, you know I have the utmost respect for you, so dont take this too personally)

Well -- I don't know about this. What did DiMeola do that McGlaughlin hadn't already done? And Holdsworth for that matter. I watched that succession at the time, and I never thought DiMeola was doing something really new, I just liked what I was hearing. And when Al and John play together -- you tell me, does one outshred the other? I think not. And neither do they outshred Paco DeLucia.

But shred is just one technique and not necessarily a technically superior one -- said it many times but apparently I have to say it again. Shred puts notes per second at a premium -- so why not just have a scales competition like the drummers who have a snare strokes per second competition to see "who's fastest?" And fact is not all techniques used on the guitar can be executed at the same speeds. So when you shred you pretty much limit your technique and your music ability to those things that can be played really fast. Well, I'm not overly impressed by that.

I believe it was Picasso who said "he's a genius from the elbow down" about Dali. That's not a compliment. And I think it could be applied to a lot of guitar players, too.

[a21schizoidman]

Well -- I don't know about this. What did DiMeola do that McGlaughlin hadn't already done? And Holdsworth for that matter. I watched that succession at the time, and I never thought DiMeola was doing something really new, I just liked what I was hearing. And when Al and John play together -- you tell me, does one outshred the other? I think not. And neither do they outshred Paco DeLucia.

But shred is just one technique and not necessarily a technically superior one -- said it many times but apparently I have to say it again. Shred puts notes per second at a premium -- so why not just have a scales competition like the drummers who have a snare strokes per second competition to see "who's fastest?" And fact is not all techniques used on the guitar can be executed at the same speeds. So when you shred you pretty much limit your technique and your music ability to those things that can be played really fast. Well, I'm not overly impressed by that.

I believe it was Picasso who said "he's a genius from the elbow down" about Dali. That's not a compliment. And I think it could be applied to a lot of guitar players, too.

that was just something I put up stating he was one of the major pioneers of shred, not to put him past McLaughlin or de Lucia, I agree they are both better and I'm not a fan of the overruse of the shred technique, I like when they do it sometimes, but I prefer jazz fusion or blues guitarist over the shredders

[Ultimatum]

The difference between fast shredding and fast drumming is that a lot of WFD drummers also happen to be Jazz drummers and can apply that speed to different things, like greater control over ghosting and things like that.

[OldFogey]

The difference between fast shredding and fast drumming is that a lot of WFD drummers also happen to be Jazz drummers and can apply that speed to different things, like greater control over ghosting and things like that.

There's no difference on that score. Same applies to guitar.