I'm sure it's been said over and over... where is Dookie?

[Anu5Ninja]

When it comes to '90s music, it's almost impossible NOT to think of Green Day. This isn't just a shot in the dark, it's a fact - Dookie is easily one of the best albums of the '90s. So where is it? There has yet to be a single Green Day song in Rock Band (or even the past Guitar Hero games). Now, of course they aren't what they used to be... hell, they're almost like a different, god-awful new band... but it's truly difficult to deny their impact. Everyone growing up in that time must have heard Longview, or Basket Case, or Welcome to Paradise, or When I Come Around.

With the amount of '90s music in Rock Band, it's surprising this hasn't been DLC yet, or even announced. Maybe Harmonix just refuses to put them in due to their recent... "style".

[Anu5Ninja]

There is no way i'm the only one to think this. >_>

[Cpt. Overkill]

Id take a 3-pack.

[seinman]

I'll take ANYTHING from Green Day. Even a single song off of crappy ass American Idiot. ANYTHING. Obviously i'd prefer the old stuff though, especially Dookie, or my personal favorite, Nimrod.

[TakeABow]

it's a fact - Dookie is easily one of the best albums of the '90s.

Ok Computer, Loveless, The Soft Bulletin, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, Slanted & Enchanted, The Bends, Weezer (Blue Album), Automatic for the People, Downward Spiral, Urban Hymns.

I don't think Dookie really fits in with them.

[jayou521]

Ok Computer, Loveless, The Soft Bulletin, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, Slanted & Enchanted, The Bends, Weezer (Blue Album), Automatic for the People, Downward Spiral, Urban Hymns.

I don't think Dookie really fits in with them.

Out of all of those, the only ones I've heard of are Weezer (Blue Album) and Downward Spiral. Dookie is better than all of those, and I would say is the definitive mid 90's album, along with Offspring's Smash

[Anu5Ninja]

Actually, Dookie easily fits in with all of them.

I love those albums, yes, but Dookie was probably played more than every one of those. Not just saying to put it in because it was popular, but because it was popular AND a great album.

Not saying your other choices are not, and i'd love to see those albums in as well.

[vandalizemenow00]

It is usually in the butt of a 5 year old.

[TakeABow]

Out of all of those, the only ones I've heard of are Weezer (Blue Album) and Downward Spiral. Dookie is better than all of those, and I would say is the definitive mid 90's album, along with Offspring's Smash

Clearly we can't really have this discussion. Oh well.

[YCFan282]

Out of all of those, the only ones I've heard of are Weezer (Blue Album) and Downward Spiral. Dookie is better than all of those, and I would say is the definitive mid 90's album, along with Offspring's Smash

how is dookie better than any of those seriously

you never heard ok computer? it's either ranked 2 or 3 on every best albums list of all time after the beatles. and if you like green day you obviously don't have any idea who neutral milk hotel is (in the aeroplane over the sea), which is the best indie record of all time. and you're saying dookie, by green day, the biggest sell outs/repetitive/sucky musicians is better?

are you high?

[TakeABow]

how is dookie better than any of those seriously

you never heard ok computer? it's either ranked 2 or 3 on every best albums list of all time after the beatles. and if you like green day you obviously don't have any idea who neutral milk hotel is (in the aeroplane over the sea), which is the best indie record of all time. and you're saying dookie, by green day, the biggest sell outs/repetitive/sucky musicians is better?

are you high?

*high five*

[YCFan282]

*high five*

high five back

love the radiohead avatar

[Destromas]

*high five*

Make this a circle! *high ten*

[Maverick827]

are you high?
Says the guy talking out of his ass without any source. You can't quantify how "good" any album is. However, Rolling Stone put out a rather extensive list (top 500) and OK Computer came in at #162.

Dookie came in at #193, which is actually pretty damn close when you think about the scope of the list.

That said, we already have two Radiohead songs and no Green Day songs.

[YCFan282]

Says the guy talking out of his ass without any source. You can't quantify how "good" any album is. However, Rolling Stone put out a rather extensive list (top 500) and OK Computer came in at #162.

Dookie came in at #193, which is actually pretty damn close when you think about the scope of the list.

That said, we already have two Radiohead songs and no Green Day songs.

http://www.time.com/time/2006/100albums/

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/36737-top-100-albums-of-the-1990s

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/unj/spin_magazines_top_90_albums_of_the_90s/

http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_albums90s.html

is that enough sources or do you want more

do yourself a favor, go buy ok computer and the bends by radiohead, slanted and enchanted by pavement, the blue album and pinkerton by weezer, and in the aeroplane over the sea by neutral milk hotel and tell me those aren't the best 90's albums

[ghostofjarjar]

We've gotten dookie the past few weeks. ;)

[TakeABow]

Says the guy talking out of his ass without any source. You can't quantify how "good" any album is. However, Rolling Stone put out a rather extensive list (top 500) and OK Computer came in at #162.

Dookie came in at #193, which is actually pretty damn close when you think about the scope of the list.

That said, we already have two Radiohead songs and no Green Day songs.

Fine. Lets compare lots of lists, shall we?

Pitchfork put OK Computer as # 1 best album of the 1990's, Dookie was unlisted. Source (http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/36737-top-100-albums-of-the-1990s)

Q Magazine held multiple reader polls regarding the best album of all time (In 1998, 2003, 2006)
Dookie is not listed anywhere on all three lists, OK Computer came in at #1, #2, and #1. Source (http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/qlistspage2.html#QReaders)

Time Magazine Listed OK Computer as one of the top 100 albums of all time, and one of the top 18 in the 1990's. The list was not ordered. Again, Dookie is not mentioned. Source (http://www.time.com/time/2006/100albums/)

NME: OK Computer is ranked #4 of all time, Dookie is, once again, not mentioned. Source (http://www.nme.com/news/oasis/23227)

[YCFan282]

Fine. Lets compare lots of lists, shall we?

Pitchfork put OK Computer as # 1 best album of the 1990's, Dookie was unlisted. Source (http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/36737-top-100-albums-of-the-1990s)

Q Magazine held multiple reader polls regarding the best album of all time (In 1998, 2003, 2006)
Dookie is not listed anywhere on all three lists, OK Computer came in at #1, #2, and #1. Source (http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/qlistspage2.html#QReaders)

Time Magazine Listed OK Computer as one of the top 100 albums of all time, and one of the top 18 in the 1990's. The list was not ordered. Again, Dookie is not mentioned. Source (http://www.time.com/time/2006/100albums/)

NME: OK Computer is ranked #4 of all time, Dookie is, once again, not mentioned. Source (http://www.nme.com/news/oasis/23227)

and the green day fan gets dominated

[TakeABow]

and the green day fan gets dominated

Usually arguing with me doesn't work too well.

[ZortheConqueror]

Ok Computer, Loveless, The Soft Bulletin, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, Slanted & Enchanted, The Bends, Weezer (Blue Album), Downward Spiral, Urban Hymns.

I don't think Dookie really fits in with them.

You're right.

Because unlike those albums, Dookie is actually good.

[TakeABow]

You're right.

Because unlike those albums, Dookie is actually good.

Again with the misconceptions.

[Maverick827]

you never heard ok computer? it's either ranked 2 or 3 on every best albums list of all time after the beatles.

ranked 2 or 3 on every best albums list of all time

of all time
90% of your sources list the top albums of the 90s, which is nowhere near what the initial claim was ("of all time" is an absolute qualifier, you should try not to use those when attempting to make a point, it frequently makes one look ignorant). Sorry, but you fail simply because of this.

Also, most of those sources are about as large of non-factors as you are. Rolling stone is about three times as large as every single one of your little sources put together, save for Time magazine, which is disqualified on the grounds that 1) It is also segmented into decades, 2) There is no denotation on the lists, so we cannot accurately tell whether or not OK Computer was ranked 1, 2, or 3, and 3) It was composed primarily by two ****ing people. The rolling stone list was voted on by hundreds of industry professionals.

I never said that the album was not good, nor that the band itself was not good. Furthermore, I never said which one deserved to be in the game more. Finally, I'm not arguing with you, for an argument requires two parties presenting valid and intelligent premises to one another, and that's something you appear to be incapable of doing. Maybe that's what you meant when you said "arguing with me doesn't work too well."

Take your e-thuggary somewhere else, kids.

[TakeABow]

90% of your sources list the top albums of the 90s, which is nowhere near what the initial claim was ("of all time" is an absolute qualifier, you should try not to use those when attempting to make a point, it frequently makes one look ignorant). Sorry, but you fail simply because of this.

Also, most of those sources are about as large of non-factors as you are. Rolling stone is about three times as large as every single one of your little sources put together, save for Time magazine, which is disqualified on the grounds that 1) It is also segmented into decades, 2) There is no denotation on the lists, so we cannot accurately tell whether or not OK Computer was ranked 1, 2, or 3, and 3) It was composed primarily by two ****ing people. The rolling stone list was voted on by hundreds of industry professionals.

I never said that the album was not good, nor that the band itself was not good. Furthermore, I never said which one deserved to be in the game more. Finally, I'm not arguing with you, for an argument requires two parties presenting valid and intelligent premises to one another, and that's something you appear to be incapable of doing. Maybe that's what you meant when you said "arguing with me doesn't work too well."

Take your e-thuggary somewhere else, kids.

FAIL.

You quote someone else to argue with me?

And my post lists exactly what the sources claim.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Dookie for Rock Band!

It's the best selling Punk album of all time!

[ZortheConqueror]

Let's take the further point that Dookie went DIAMOND.

Ok Computer went Double Platinum.

That means Dookie sold more than 5 times as much as Ok Computer (in the US alone. It sold almost twice as much as Ok Computer the world-over).

By share numbers, Dookie is the more important album in this matter in terms of sheer instant recognition.

More people are going to recognize songs from Dookie than from Ok Computer, thus, more people are going to purchase Dookie than Ok Computer.

[TakeABow]

Let's take the further point that Dookie went DIAMOND.

Ok Computer went Double Platinum.

That means Dookie sold more than 5 times as much as Ok Computer (in the US alone. It sold almost twice as much as Ok Computer the world-over).

By share numbers, Dookie is the more important album in this matter in terms of sheer instant recognition.

More people are going to recognize songs from Dookie than from Ok Computer, thus, more people are going to purchase Dookie than Ok Computer.

By that logic, The albums everyone wants then must be: Thriller, Back in Black, The Bodyguard, Saturday Night Fever, Eagles Greatest Hits, Dark Side Of the Moon, Bat Out of Hell, Come on Over, and Backstreet Boy's Millennium.

You get skewed numbers when you sort albums by number sold. There is a reason that Best Album of all time lists seldom correspond to record sales.

[Maverick827]

FAIL.

You quote someone else to argue with me?

And my post lists exactly what the sources claim.
I was actually addressing both of you, since you both pretty much said the same thing. He was the one who initially claimed OK Computer was regularly regarded as one of the top 1, 2, or 3 albums of all time. You both proceeded to list a ton of sources, most of which regarded it as the top album of the 90s. These two things are very different.

Do you want to state that OK Computer is one of the best albums of the 90s? Great, you go right ahead and do that, because there is indeed quite a bit of evidence to support such a claim. Just don't come in here and trash a band that I like without provocation. Read the thread again, and you will find that you (and everyone in your circle jerk high five club) were giant dicks to just about everyone simply because they wanted Green Day in Rock Band. Way to go. You're ****ing cool and edgy, we get it. You're the coolest ****ing guy on the Rock Band forums.

*****.

[TakeABow]

I was actually addressing both of you, since you both pretty much said the same thing. He was the one who initially claimed OK Computer was regularly regarded as one of the top 1, 2, or 3 albums of all time. You both proceeded to list a ton of sources, most of which regarded it as the top album of the 90s. These two things are very different.

Do you want to state that OK Computer is one of the best albums of the 90s? Great, you go right ahead and do that, because there is indeed quite a bit of evidence to support such a claim. Just don't come in here and trash a band that I like without provocation. Read the thread again, and you will find that you (and everyone in your circle jerk high five club) were giant dicks to just about everyone simply because they wanted Green Day in Rock Band. Way to go. You're ****ing cool and edgy, we get it. You're the coolest ****ing guy on the Rock Band forums.

*****.

I take issue with the claim, (which is why I posted at all) with Dookie being one of the greatest albums of the 90's.

Saying you want Green Day is fine. Saying Green Day is your favorite band is OK. Saying you want Dookie is encouraged by this forum.

I challenged (with evidence) a claim I disagreed with, then I defended myself.

[YCFan282]

I was actually addressing both of you, since you both pretty much said the same thing. He was the one who initially claimed OK Computer was regularly regarded as one of the top 1, 2, or 3 albums of all time. You both proceeded to list a ton of sources, most of which regarded it as the top album of the 90s. These two things are very different.

Do you want to state that OK Computer is one of the best albums of the 90s? Great, you go right ahead and do that, because there is indeed quite a bit of evidence to support such a claim. Just don't come in here and trash a band that I like without provocation. Read the thread again, and you will find that you (and everyone in your circle jerk high five club) were giant dicks to just about everyone simply because they wanted Green Day in Rock Band. Way to go. You're ****ing cool and edgy, we get it. You're the coolest ****ing guy on the Rock Band forums.


*****.

thank you

dookie still sucks even though i own it, kind of embaressing...

[TakeABow]

thank you

dookie still sucks even though i own it, kind of embaressing...

This sort of thing is bad. You don't go into threads saying that something sucks. You don't tell people they need to buy the album. Your post telling someone they should go buy something they probably don't like (hinted at by the fact they are posting favorably in a Green Day thread), is just egging them on.

I only take issue with Dookie being one of the best albums in the 90's. I have no quarrel with anyone who wants to use Rock Band to rock out to music they love.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Dookie is up there with Nevermind and Siamese Dream as albums that changed music.

[TakeABow]

Dookie is up there with Nevermind and Siamese Dream as albums that changed music.

According to who? I'm curious who would list those.

[Rockbandfan23467]

According to who? I'm curious who would list those.

The Alternative Radio station's Disk Jockey. I agree with him there. Dookie pretty much invented Pop-Punk.

[kingtonyx]

here are the album sales numbers, just for reference

DOOKIE: 15mil
OK COMPUTER: 8.4mil
URBAN HYMNS: 8mil
DOWNWARD SPIRAL: 5mil
BLUE ALBUM: 3.2mil
THE BENDS: 3.2mil
SLANTED AND ENCHANTED: 150,000
THE SOFT BULLETIN: 38,000
LOVELESS: ???
IN THE AEROPLANE OVER THE SEA: ???

[Destromas]

You're right.

Because unlike those albums, Dookie is actually good.

Hah! Right, and I still believe in Santa.

[Destromas]

here are the album sales numbers, just for reference

DOOKIE: 15mil
OK COMPUTER: 8.4mil
URBAN HYMNS: 8mil
DOWNWARD SPIRAL: 5mil
BLUE ALBUM: 3.2mil
THE BENDS: 3.2mil
SLANTED AND ENCHANTED: 150,000
THE SOFT BULLETIN: 38,000
LOVELESS: ???
IN THE AEROPLANE OVER THE SEA: ???

Because album sales somehow relate to how good an album actually is in a given decade? Let's not forget that the 90s also marked the advent of the peer to peer digital downloads.

[kingtonyx]

I didn't say anything about what the numbers meant, but there they are

[afterstasis]

The Alternative Radio station's Disk Jockey. I agree with him there. Dookie pretty much invented Pop-Punk.

pop-punk predated "dookie" by about 15 years...
"dookie" definitely popularized the genre, though.

[Destromas]

The Alternative Radio station's Disk Jockey. I agree with him there. Dookie pretty much invented Pop-Punk.

That's worse than Wikipedia. Listening to a DJ as fact is like using a magic 8-ball or askjeeves for personal problems.

[Rockbandfan23467]

pop-punk predated "dookie" by about 15 years...
"dookie" definitely popularized the genre, though.
The Ramones and The Buzzcocks were just Pop-Influenced-Punk, not Pop-Punk.

[Ubermode2]

she said it's lack of sex that's bringing me down

[TakeABow]

That's worse than Wikipedia. Listening to a DJ as fact is like using a magic 8-ball or askjeeves for personal problems.

What? That's how I solve all my personal problems.

[ZortheConqueror]

By that logic, The albums everyone wants then must be: Thriller, Back in Black, The Bodyguard, Saturday Night Fever, Eagles Greatest Hits, Dark Side Of the Moon, Bat Out of Hell, Come on Over, and Backstreet Boy's Millennium.

You get skewed numbers when you sort albums by number sold. There is a reason that Best Album of all time lists seldom correspond to record sales.

You seem to not realize that this is, largely, the case.

Not that I'd want any of those albums, or am defending any of them as being good, but their higher popularity creates a high demand for them.

You and I may look at the best albums of the 90s as being the best albums in our particular cases - you apparently enjoying more indie-type bands and me personally enjoying a lot more underground punk bands - but the albums that the majority of people are going to be considering the best albums are going to be those that sold the most.

You can find lists of people declaring Ok Computer as one of the best albums of the 90s, but I can just as easily find lists of people listing Dookie as one of the best albums of the 90s.

But when it comes down to it, more people are going to want Dookie than Ok Computer simply due to the fact that more people know Dookie than Ok Computer. So yeah, a lot of those albums you listed would likely sell really well in Rock Band, despite whatever benefits/detriments they may have musically (or even for the game), they're well known, popular, and familiar.

[TakeABow]

You seem to not realize that this is, largely, the case.

Not that I'd want any of those albums, or am defending any of them as being good, but their higher popularity creates a high demand for them.

You and I may look at the best albums of the 90s as being the best albums in our particular cases - you apparently enjoying more indie-type bands and me personally enjoying a lot more underground punk bands - but the albums that the majority of people are going to be considering the best albums are going to be those that sold the most.

You can find lists of people declaring Ok Computer as one of the best albums of the 90s, but I can just as easily find lists of people listing Dookie as one of the best albums of the 90s.

But when it comes down to it, more people are going to want Dookie than Ok Computer simply due to the fact that more people know Dookie than Ok Computer. So yeah, a lot of those albums you listed would likely sell really well in Rock Band, despite whatever benefits/detriments they may have musically (or even for the game), they're well known, popular, and familiar.

The point is that (and i'm pretty sure most would agree with this, you bring it up yourself). "Best selling" and "Most in demand" are not equal to "Best Quality". Bands that make deals and cut corners to sell more albums are the reason the term "sellout" exists. Sometimes selling the most records makes you the best, but sometimes it does not. Backstreet Boys? Who would list them as one of the "Best Acts?" Some people would, but more people would probably list the Beatles, or The Who, or Pink Floyd, or Queen first.

[ZortheConqueror]

The point is that (and i'm pretty sure most would agree with this, you bring it up yourself). "Best selling" and "Most in demand" are not equal to "Best Quality". Bands that make deals and cut corners to sell more albums are the reason the term "sellout" exists. Sometimes selling the most records makes you the best, but sometimes it does not. Backstreet Boys? Who would list them as one of the "Best Acts?" Some people would, but more people would probably list the Beatles, or The Who, or Pink Floyd, or Queen first.

I don't really disagree with you there.

Though I should point out that The Beatles, The Who, Pink Floyd, and Queen were all very successful, best selling groups.

[RnR]

Excuse me. Coming through. Make a hole.
Thanks, I would like some Green Day too.
Ok back to your bantering.

[TimeSplitter]

By that logic, The albums everyone wants then must be: Thriller, Back in Black, The Bodyguard, Saturday Night Fever, Eagles Greatest Hits, Dark Side Of the Moon, Bat Out of Hell, Come on Over, and Backstreet Boy's Millennium.


I would buy almost half of those albums in this game...
Anyway, yes Green Day old or new (personally I prefere new) for Rock Band.

[Alright_Computer]

Would I buy it? No.

Would I complain if it was released? Probably, but no one's forcing me to buy it.

And just throwing in a point: If HMX only released albums based on their popularity, we would be getting the Spice Girls, ABBA, and Michael Jackson full discographies within a month. It's obvious this wasn't the case; Harmonix knew Doolittle wouldn't sell very well, and released it anyways. It's more about making sure that every genre is represented - and we've gotten plenty of pop-punk (Weezer, Fall Out Boy, Panic at the Disco, AFI) and not so much, if any, art rock, which is what OK Computer is.

[leftover_crack]

I'll take ANYTHING from Green Day. Even a single song off of crappy ass American Idiot. ANYTHING. Obviously i'd prefer the old stuff though, especially Dookie, or my personal favorite, Nimrod.

american idiot wasn't crappy it was over played on mtv

so just dont watch mtv

[leftover_crack]

art rock, which is what OK Computer is.

but radio head is already in the game

what there really isn't any of is ska punk

[Ledgo2]

Where is dookie?

In the toliet, I would guess..

J/K, I couldn't resist...

[TakeABow]

Where is dookie?

In the toliet, I would guess..

J/K, I couldn't resist...

DingDingDing. We have our winner.

[Asrugan]

Next to Santaria, Basketcase is my most wanted RB song.

[Mbyte69]

yeah dookie whoud rock id buy it :) same with offsprings smash album please HMX take note :) even jst greendays basket case whould do for now lol :)

[itsnotmyfault]

I love all of the arrogant *****s who feel the need to insist that Radiohead is the best thing ever wherever they go. Now, I like Radiohead as much as the next guy, but why the hell are we talking about Radiohead in a topic about Green Day? Oh, that's right, someone said that Dookie was one of the best 90's albums. That's an obviously offensive statement that certainly suggests that OK Computer is terrible, so obviously bantering must follow. I don't know if people realize this, but not everyone likes the same music. It's shocking, I know. So the guy thinks Dookie is a great album, what of it? Who the hell are you to decide which albums he personally finds to be the best of the 90's?

Well anyway, I would love to see anything off of Dookie, so yeah.

[DookieMan]

Anyway, yes Green Day old or new (personally I prefere new) for Rock Band.
You are the only person I have ever heard say that in my entire life.


and we've gotten plenty of pop-punk (Weezer, Fall Out Boy, Panic at the Disco, AFI)
Are they punk at all? I don't know, but I really can't consider them punk.

[zerofan]

I'll take ANYTHING from Green Day. Even a single song off of crappy ass American Idiot. ANYTHING. Obviously i'd prefer the old stuff though, especially Dookie, or my personal favorite, Nimrod.

I am down with the above statement and I approve this message.

[Refero]

It's more about making sure that every genre is represented - and we've gotten plenty of pop-punk (Weezer, Fall Out Boy, Panic at the Disco, AFI) and not so much, if any, art rock, which is what OK Computer is.

W-w-wait...Weezer is considered pop-punk? :confused:

Anyway... I wouldn't mind some Green Day.

[YCFan282]

I love all of the arrogant *****s who feel the need to insist that Radiohead is the best thing ever wherever they go. Now, I like Radiohead as much as the next guy, but why the hell are we talking about Radiohead in a topic about Green Day? Oh, that's right, someone said that Dookie was one of the best 90's albums. That's an obviously offensive statement that certainly suggests that OK Computer is terrible, so obviously bantering must follow. I don't know if people realize this, but not everyone likes the same music. It's shocking, I know. So the guy thinks Dookie is a great album, what of it? Who the hell are you to decide which albums he personally finds to be the best of the 90's?

Well anyway, I would love to see anything off of Dookie, so yeah.

radiohead is the best thing ever to happen to music basically