"Blackened" and teh double bass.

[Chthonic]

Sorry if I'm rehashing a topic here, but I'm curious as to how Rock Band will deal with songs that have double-bass drum sections in them (like Metallica's "Blackened", for instance). Will the game only have you do half the footwork during those sections, or do you have to make like Nicko McBrain and just go really, really fast with one foot? :D

[vtjustinb]

The game and all electronics attached to it will explode from the pure absurdity of Harmonix trying to map occasional burst sixteenth notes to a undeniably single pedal.

[aceplace]

I love these people talking about the double bass, the drums may be an accurate portrayal of real drums but, it doesn't have to be that real.

[Chthonic]

Uh, huh..

In other words, it's probably going to be half the amount of notes representing the full set of sixteenths. I figure it'd be a mite hard to get 100% on those songs otherwise..

[aceplace]

Uh, huh..

In other words, it's probably going to be half the amount of notes representing the full set of sixteenths. I figure it'd be a mite hard to get 100% on those songs otherwise..

That sounds about right.

[Xzyliac]

I'm so hyped to see Harmonix shut up the double bass complainers.

YES WE CAN HAVE METAL! Rock on. :cool:

[aceplace]

I'm so hyped to see Harmonix shut up the double bass complainers.

YES WE CAN HAVE METAL! Rock on. :cool:

Why, what did harmonix say?

[Xzyliac]

Why, what did harmonix say?

Nothing but here's a double bass song. Obviously they do have a solution.

[aceplace]

Nothing but here's a double bass song. Obviously they do have a solution.

Oh yeah...

[deepbluevibes]

uh, just use heel toe method, you can kick out around 4 quick 32nd bass pedal notes, i'm sure they'll leave the notes in (or at least i hope they will)

[battle_axe_of_doom]

you wanna hear really really fast with one fat?? danny herrera.period

[Stevenam81]

Well, in that 5 page interview, they did say they had guys working on some wireless percussion stuff. Who's to say they don't have a way of allowing us to add double bass in the future. If I had to take a shot in the dark I would say the following is a possibility. Most drummers start out with a single bass pedal, and most music can be played with a single bass pedal. It wouldn't make much sense to cram an extra bass pedal down everyone's throat and make them pay extra when some people don't care for that style. Plus it can be overwhelming when many people who will be playing this haven't even played drums before. They didn't put any songs with double bass on the game disc. But....for those who want it, they do offer DLC containing double bass. So maybe they will sell an add on in the future. Then if you have the extra pedal, you can patch the game to work with it. Just wishing thinking...

[KaYotiX]

Double bass should be a blast on Expert for "One" haha!!! Im so pumped Metallica is finally in!!

Props to HMX and Metallica for making it work.

[vtjustinb]

uh, just use heel toe method, you can kick out around 4 quick 32nd bass pedal notes, i'm sure they'll leave the notes in (or at least i hope they will)

4 quick 32nd notes? What?

Surely you're high.

A burst double is common, triples are sometimes possible if you have the right rebound from the pedal but only occasionally.

4 is just boastful and dirty, filthy lies. That ain't happening short of awkward leg twitching, and there's no "method" to that.

[deepbluevibes]

4 quick 32nd notes? What?

Surely you're high.

A burst double is common, triples are sometimes possible if you have the right rebound from the pedal but only occasionally.

4 is just boastful and dirty, filthy lies. That ain't happening short of awkward leg twitching, and there's no "method" to that.

Ok. I'm not even going to go on about this, don't have the time, but yeah, it's possible, by far.

[vtjustinb]

Ok. I'm not even going to go on about this, don't have the time, but yeah, it's possible, by far.

Hahaha. No. Not even close.

I mean maybe you just don't know what you're talking about when you say 32nd notes, and that's entirely possible I suppose (although it begs the question why you'd be throwing around your "real world drum experience" if you don't know what you're talking about), but there's no way in hell you're getting 4 32nd notes on one foot at Blackened tempo, heel-toe or not.

32nd notes at about 190bpm (which is around what Blackened is on the CD, +- 5bpm) would sound like this:

http://just-in.org/etc/32nds.mp3

Show me anyone that can do that with one foot. I mean Tim Waterson (who held a Guinness World Record for most single-footed bass hits in a minute) only got 670 hits, which if you broke that down to 32nds would be 32nd notes at 83.75bpm--and that's well below even hair band ballad tempos.

I'm not trying to hate on you or anything, but there are a LOT of drummers on this forum--so if you're gonna come in here and be elitist about the game because of your "real world drum experience" don't make insane claims like that because you'll get called out on it.

[deepbluevibes]

Hahaha. No. Not even close.

I mean maybe you just don't know what you're talking about when you say 32nd notes, and that's entirely possible I suppose (although it begs the question why you'd be throwing around your "real world drum experience" if you don't know what you're talking about), but there's no way in hell you're getting 4 32nd notes on one foot at Blackened tempo, heel-toe or not.

No, I do. I know exactly what 32nd drum notes are.

Just curious if you've ever seen an artist called "The Berzerker"? He does songs literally double the speed of anything in Blackened, yes, he uses double bass, but the speed on one of his feet alone is easily fast enough to do a quick burst of 4 notes.

Again, i'm talking about a *burst* of speed. Not a stream, a burst of four notes.

You talk about 190 BPM; I said nothing about the BPM. I never said that I or anyone else could do 32nd notes at 190 BPM; It was my mistake to not say a BPM for reference, but I was thinking more along the lines of an average 100 BPM or so, a round number, etc.

32nd notes at 100 bpm on one foot, 4 of them quickly, I think is definitely possible w/heel-toe method.

I've heard Blackened (although admittedly i skipped through it some), and from what I heard there is nothing in there impossible with single bass. May be a pain with one foot, but definitely possible.


I'm not trying to hate on you or anything, but there are a LOT of drummers on this forum--so if you're gonna come in here and be elitist about the game because of your "real world drum experience" don't make insane claims like that because you'll get called out on it.

I'm not being elitist; i'm just saying what I feel is perfectly correct from visual and audible experience.

And yes, i've been playing drums since I was 16 (6 years ago); never said I was amazing at them, there are people far better than me, but a quick burst of 32nd notes (4 of them) is definitely possible at 100BPM-ish, and again, I should have said that to begin with.

I was mentally calculating out that 32nd notes at 100 BPM would be equal to around 16ths at 200 BPM, which is near the BPM of Blackened, and still a bit faster if i remember (I haven't listened to Blackened more than once or twice, and it's been a week or two, so sorry if i'm off).

To be honest, about a lot of drummers on this forum; on both this and Score Hero forums, from the posts i've seen, I get the constant implication that besides me and you and maybe five or six other people, NO ONE has real-life drum experience or even experience with drum games.

I kind of hope that isn't the case though, because I really do want there to be a lot of skilled drummers playing this when it comes out; but that's just from what i've seen on here.

[Stevenam81]

Ok, I'm with vtjustinb on this one. To be honest, this debate is pointless anyway. I'm talking about as far as Rock Band goes. I've heard Blackened hundreds of times, not just "once or twice." There are a lot of double bass galops and that double bass section after the first chorus and I really doubt Harmonix expects us to play those parts on their single bass pedal. Even if someone could do it on a drumset using a single pedal, at least they are using a real bass pedal and have the rebound to work with. If they made us hit every note with one pedal, most people would either brake the pedal, or their leg would cramp up. Most people would have trouble with Blackened if Rock Band had 2 bass pedals.

The average person can't play like "Berzerker" or a guy in the Guiness Book. If we are talking about real drums, I guess it's debatable. But if we are talking about Rock Band and deepbluevibes saying
uh, just use heel toe method, you can kick out around 4 quick 32nd bass pedal notes, i'm sure they'll leave the notes in (or at least i hope they will) I really doubt Harmoix will expect us to hit every note. I also doubt the heel toe method will work on Rock Band's pedal anyway.

[vtjustinb]

Just curious if you've ever seen an artist called "The Berzerker"? He does songs literally double the speed of anything in Blackened, yes, he uses double bass, but the speed on one of his feet alone is easily fast enough to do a quick burst of 4 notes.

Yes, and most of that heel-toe stuff he does are diddles not singles--same as Virgil Donati. His bass hits are triggered too, so he doesn't have to worry about quality of sound or uniformity of stroke speed, just hit the head and you get a uniform sound.

But you're making an assumption here that just because he's really fast (and he is) that he could do something inhuman with one foot, and I don't buy that logic. Inferences don't make good arguments.


You talk about 190 BPM; I said nothing about the BPM. I never said that I or anyone else could do 32nd notes at 190 BPM; It was my mistake to not say a BPM for reference, but I was thinking more along the lines of an average 100 BPM or so, a round number, etc.

32nd notes at 100 bpm on one foot, 4 of them quickly, I think is definitely possible w/heel-toe method.

Sure bump the tempo down to a "Bic in the air" rock ballad there might be 1-2% of the drumming population that could pull that out. I don't feel like making another clip, but 32nds at 100 is still plenty fast for one foot. If you interpreted them as 16th notes, that'd be 200bpm and that's faster than the double bass in Blackened on one foot--just sayin.


I've heard Blackened (although admittedly i skipped through it some), and from what I heard there is nothing in there impossible with single bass. May be a pain with one foot, but definitely possible.

Find me someone who can sustain 16th notes at 190bpm on one foot for 4 measures. :P



I'm not being elitist; i'm just saying what I feel is perfectly correct from visual and audible experience.

And yes, i've been playing drums since I was 16 (6 years ago); never said I was amazing at them, there are people far better than me, but a quick burst of 32nd notes (4 of them) is definitely possible at 100BPM-ish, and again, I should have said that to begin with.

You're more than welcome to express what you feel is correct, but we're talking about double bass in metal drumming (in this thread specifically Blackened) and you're not gonna find many 100bpm metal songs.

You came into this discussion saying "oh if you heel-toe you can knock out 32nds no problem" like it was an everyday thing, but now you've backpedalled to "if you're playing at barely over Say It Ain't So tempo it's possible you could do it." And that's fine, the whole point of most of my comments have been to make you back up what you're saying because taken at face value they're not logical.



I kind of hope that isn't the case though, because I really do want there to be a lot of skilled drummers playing this when it comes out; but that's just from what i've seen on here.

There are; I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And again I'm not trying to come of as brash--I just think if people are representing themselves as drummers and are spouting marginally appropriate comments as if they're axiom they should back it up is all.

[HMXWhitestar19]

We deal with double bass awesomely. You'll be happy. Maybe too happy cause it's not gonna be an easy song to beat. I wish you all the best. You're going to need it.

[Apples]

We deal with double bass awesomely. You'll be happy. Maybe too happy cause it's not gonna be an easy song to beat. I wish you all the best. You're going to need it.

Well, as long as it's awesome I guess I'm okay with it. :D

[ZkDotNet]

We deal with double bass awesomely. You'll be happy. Maybe too happy cause it's not gonna be an easy song to beat. I wish you all the best. You're going to need it.
Ominous.
<ominous>

[vtjustinb]

Imma call the notes being split between foot and a tom. That'd be fun.

[deepbluevibes]

Find me someone who can sustain 16th notes at 190bpm on one foot for 4 measures. :P

Well, I didn't mean for 4 measures; from what I remember in the song, it was only quick bursts of speed, not a long chain; if i'm wrong, then my mistake.


You came into this discussion saying "oh if you heel-toe you can knock out 32nds no problem" like it was an everyday thing, but now you've backpedalled to "if you're playing at barely over Say It Ain't So tempo it's possible you could do it." And that's fine, the whole point of most of my comments have been to make you back up what you're saying because taken at face value they're not logical.

Yeah, and again my mistake for not stating the BPM.

About stating it like an everday thing, that's a mistake that a lot of people make about my statements because we're on a forum and you can't see my face/emotions when i'm saying this; the way that was meant to be stated was more of a "for god's sake people, it's not impossible", instead of a "oh yeah you guys suck" type thing.

After being on Score Hero and here for a bit, I see a LOT of people basically have the mentality that *blank* is just too hard and i'm not even going to attempt it because it's just impossible and blah blah, and soooo many posts/threads of people saying "any metal songs are impossible without double bass" to the point that I was just like "come on people, it's not impossible, it may be very hard but it's not impossible". I see how it can come off as that though.

Also, admittedly, while it has nothing to do with drums, my view on foot-speed is a bit skewed thanks to DDR. You see, while standing up, I and other people have been able to pull off 50-60 note chains (with two feet, but still, this is STANDING and using my entire leg) of 16th notes at 220+ BPM on DDR.

Years of gameplay like this has caused me to kind of get a warped view on foot speed sometimes, so that contributed to it also, admittedly.

Also, congrats; you are maybe one of six or so people on a forum that has EVER successfully rebutted something i've said with tact, with intelligence, and with solid points. And this is coming from someone who's been on forums since he's been around 8-9 years old; honestly, i'm impressed, after having to deal with wave after wave of people who instantly resort to insults and really horrible points when they disagree with you.

I mean, over at Score Hero, someone said that Rock Band was better than Drummania because you could make your own characters... I mean... what?

[xyberviri]

Sorry if I'm rehashing a topic here, but I'm curious as to how Rock Band will deal with songs that have double-bass drum sections in them (like Metallica's "Blackened", for instance). Will the game only have you do half the footwork during those sections, or do you have to make like Nicko McBrain and just go really, really fast with one foot? :D

http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=201&stc=1&d=1197147400

[HogPride15]

You guys(vtjustinb and deepbluevibes) are probably among the most intelligent people i have seen on these forums. I hate when people can't find any better argument so they resort to lame insults and personal attacks. The way you all handled yourselves throughout that discussion is admirable and in my opinion deserves recognition. If everyone on here acted as mature as you guys then these forums would have a lot of impact on the game. Until now I wondered if there were any good people on these forums, but now I see that intelligent people still exist. lol :P

[Tamran]

Well said HogPride15.

I agree totally.

Tamran