Guitar Hero Over Charted, What?

[thecodinghero]

EDIT: Yup, sorry all, my mistake. I was reading those like drum tabs. I am, in fact, a dumb ass. I'm putting this edit at the top so you know I'm a dummy going into this. :)

I got curious about why everyone says GH is over charted so I went to YouTube and checked out some expert level vids. I don't get it. It seems to me that the GH charts are actually more realistic, and therefor harder. Why does harder == over charted?

One song that really stood out for me (because i love the song and love to play it in RB) is 3's & 7's by Queens of the Stone Age. I compared the charts to guitar tabs of the actual song and the GH chart matches the tabbed 3 note chords, while RB's chart only has 2 note chords. I've also noticed some songs in RB that were missing some notes. Actual drum notes, not crazy double bass lines.

I understand that most people want to be able to say they beat the game on expert and all, but really, if you are playing what amounts to hard level in GH then what's the point?

I will say one thing... I really hate those stupid ego boosters that pop up for streaks and such. There's way too much clutter in GH. Do any of the GH players here know if you can disable those or at least make the mute?

Comparison Links:

Rock Band
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-qRKVCe-s&fmt=18

Guitar Hero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXjWM06Ct4&fmt=18

Tab
http://www.911tabs.com/link/?4597762

[CONAN9845]

Overcharting sucks.

[Kariodude]

Overcharting = Sacrificing fun for realism. When people play these games, they aren't looking to play it just like a real guitar, because it's not a real guitar. It's 5 colored buttons. Yeah, GH3 is harder, but that's because they used the tabs for the songs, which completely sacrifices the fun. The ones who do think it's more fun are the masochistic ScoreHero type players that already had 99% on Jordan before this game came out.

[Mizzoio]

Not every song is overcharted, but a lot are. For instance, the entire intro of Through the Fire and Flames is actually a synthesizer, but Activision felt like torturing our fingers by making us play it on guitar.

[Kariodude]

Not every song is overcharted, but a lot are. For instance, the entire intro of Through the Fire and Flames is actually a synthesizer, but Activision felt like torturing our fingers by making us play it on guitar.

No, it's spanish acoustic guitar. They just play it on a synthesizer live.

[Jglaubman]

Rock Band still has hard songs, when the actual chart is hard. GH just added "3-chords" in that song just to make it harder. I think there is a spot where you play the Bass part in 3s and 7s and they give it a 3 -chord note. They gave a bass part a 3-chord.

[Onslaught_fei]

I look at the tab and see that only 2 fingers are used for the chords. Whats your point?


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------6-6---------------------------------------------------|
D|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--6-6--8-8--x-x--6-6--5--3--3---------------------------|
A|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--4-4--8-8--x-x--6-6--3--3--3---------------------------|
E|-x-x-x-x--6-6--x-x-------6-6--x-x--4-4--3--1--1---------------------------|

2 fingers for that and


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
D|--2-2----4-4----6-6----2-2----2-2----4-4----6-6----6-6--------------------|
A|--2-2----4-4----6-6----2-2----2-2----4-4----6-6----6-6--------------------|
E|--0-0----2-2----4-4----0-0----0-0----2-2----4-4----4-4--------------------|

Also only 2 fingers for that too.

[squiggerz]

TWO WORDS: SNOW.


oh, uh.. PERIOD.

[jtrousd]

Meh, unfortunately, it is overcharted. Those are power chords in the tab, which consist of a 1st and a 5th (right? I think). So the first chord is an A# power chord, with A#, F, and A# again. The next is a C# power chord with C#, G#, and C#. The other chords follow this same pattern.

In Rock Band, three-note chords are either barre chords or open chords because they represent more than 2 different notes. Any time you see a 2-note chord in Rock Band, it's because it's either just 2 notes, or it's a chord that contains just two different notes (despite those 2 notes showing up more than once in that same chord).

So yes, GH is wee bit overcharted on some songs.

Edit: And Snow is not overcharted. :P

[Ramirez16]

Sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't....

[thecodinghero]

Really, you don't see 3? Because I see:


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------6-6---------------------------------------------------|
D|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--6-6--8-8--x-x--6-6--5--3--3---------------------------|
A|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--4-4--8-8--x-x--6-6--3--3--3---------------------------|
E|-x-x-x-x--6-6--x-x-------6-6--x-x--4-4--3--1--1---------------------------|

and


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
D|-3-3-3-3---6-6-6-6---5-5-5-5---8-8-8-8---7-7-7-7--10-10-10-10--11-11-10---|
A|-3-3-3-3---6-6-6-6---5-5-5-5---8-8-8-8---7-7-7-7--10-10-10-10--11-11-10---|
E|-1-1-1-1---4-4-4-4---3-3-3-3---6-6-6-6---5-5-5-5--8--8--8--8---9--9--8----|

[Onslaught_fei]

Really, you don't see 3? Because I see:


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------6-6---------------------------------------------------|
D|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--6-6--8-8--x-x--6-6--5--3--3---------------------------|
A|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--4-4--8-8--x-x--6-6--3--3--3---------------------------|
E|-x-x-x-x--6-6--x-x-------6-6--x-x--4-4--3--1--1---------------------------|

and


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
D|-3-3-3-3---6-6-6-6---5-5-5-5---8-8-8-8---7-7-7-7--10-10-10-10--11-11-10---|
A|-3-3-3-3---6-6-6-6---5-5-5-5---8-8-8-8---7-7-7-7--10-10-10-10--11-11-10---|
E|-1-1-1-1---4-4-4-4---3-3-3-3---6-6-6-6---5-5-5-5--8--8--8--8---9--9--8----|

No I dont. I see my fingers holding down frets 8 and 6 while strumming 3 strings etc... Then I see myself strumming twice with no fingers at all on the same strings, then strumming G-D-A strings while holding down frets 6 and 4.

[Orfbin]

2 note chords are supposed to show power chords, since there are only 2 notes in a power chord (the 3rd note is an octave). The three note chords should show normal chords, since you are putting 3 to 4 fingers down. Guitar Hero puts down three note chords where they shouldn't be.

The 1-3-3 chord is an F5.

The 1 is the F.

The middle 3 is a C.

And the last 3 is another F, which it is not necessary to play on a guitar.

[Jglaubman]

Those are power chords. You have two fingers on the same fret. Which (in GH and RB terms) should be charted as two buttons.

[afterstasis]

i assume the OP doesn't play real guitar...

[Darkfalz]

Neversoft overcharts for "challenge" purposes.

They're programmers first and chart based on how difficult they think a song should be.

The last tier of GH3 is a perfect example.

HMX charts the songs based on finger positioning on an actual fret board.

They're musicians first and now how a song should "feel".

[thecodinghero]

Well in that case I could just not know jack about guitar tabs. :p

[Darkfalz]

i assume the OP doesn't play real guitar...

I have to agree with you.

[Kudo]

Onslaught just ended this topic. I was listening to the song, brought up the tabs and was literally scrolling to the bottom to type that up.

[Bosco32]

Well in that case I could just not know jack about guitar tabs. :p

I could see where you'd think that if you haven't played for real. The other case for RB being more accurate in this case is the positioning on the fretboard. Whether one calls GH overcharted or not, the way you are forced to jump around the fretboard combined with switching three button chords is nothing short of punishing. Intentionally punishing. But some people love it, so to each his own

[Dulahey]

No, it's spanish acoustic guitar. They just play it on a synthesizer live.

I saw them live in July and they played it on the Spanish acoustic guitars.

[b4nny]

If you think GH3 is not overcharted, go take a look at Sabotage, Impulse, and FCPREMIX on bass. They added chords to the bass part where there are no chords. Yes, all of them actually have bass chords, however they overdid them. On Sabotage there are a couple chords in places where there is obviously only one note played. In FCPREMIX there are a couple octaves played together and GH charts them as three-note chords. Impulse is the same story - many double stops charted as three notes. These instances show what the charters tended to do with rather simple parts...

[captainsamus]

The only real problem I have with GH3 (well, difficulty wise at least...there are many other problems that I won't get into) is that there is a clear difficulty difference between Tiers 7 and 8 and the other 6 tiers, on ANY difficulty really, but especially on hard & expert.

Expert tiers 1-6 on GH3 are pretty damn close to the difficulty levels found in expert RB. Tiers 7-8 make a huge jump in difficulty with no real progression in difficulty, just a real steep increase in difficulty for no good reason. That said, Tiers 1-6 on Hard in GH3 are pretty close to the difficulty level of Hard in RB. Tiers 7-8 ON HARD, however, are close to being the final tiers of Expert in RB, again, a huge jump in difficulty for no good reason.

Tl;dr, Tiers 7 & 8 are the worst culprits of "bad charting to make the game difficult" in GH3

[Onslaught_fei]

If Neversoft wants difficult songs, they should chart difficult songs. Harmonix has the hardest songs between the 2 games, but they leave them as DLC.

[Vedicardi]

Another problem with 3's and 7's is during the "breakdown" the slow and chugging part, GH3 charts 2 different guitars switching between them ridiculously, while RB has you only playing one of them.

[afterstasis]

Another problem with 3's and 7's is during the "breakdown" the slow and chugging part, GH3 charts 2 different guitars switching between them ridiculously, while RB has you only playing one of them.

moar guitarz = moar points = moar cool!

[gamrrpol]

I prefer RB over GH....but think the "overcharting" charges are overblown. I don't play a real guitar and will take on faith those who claim that RB is more realistic to actually playing. However, I still think there are a lot of people who play RB at an expert level and any time they're unable to complete a song on sight-read, or can't get five stars in GH...they immediately claim the song is "overcharted" when it's really just beyond their capabilities. It's a convenient excuse for not getting gold stars, FCs or high scores...just blame the developer.

[Rev0lver]

If you think GH3 is not overcharted, go take a look at Sabotage, Impulse, and FCPREMIX on bass. They added chords to the bass part where there are no chords. Yes, all of them actually have bass chords, however they overdid them. On Sabotage there are a couple chords in places where there is obviously only one note played. In FCPREMIX there are a couple octaves played together and GH charts them as three-note chords. Impulse is the same story - many double stops charted as three notes. These instances show what the charters tended to do with rather simple parts...

They also added an extra note on the main riff to FCPREMIX, which pissed me off more than anything. There also are no bass chords in the actual song.

[Inpheksion]

TWO WORDS: SNOW.


oh, uh.. PERIOD.

yes, most of snow require little movement in reality, the reason GH is overcharted is simple, they do add notes to make it harder, and also


we have 5 plastic buttons...

with three note chords being the largest, there are, about 85 different things, (counting, triple, doubles and singles, someone can check my math)

Reality has 6 strings, PLUS frets, I'm not even doing the math.

[thecodinghero]

Yup, sorry all, my mistake. I was reading those like drum tabs. I am, in fact, a dumb ass. :)

[Chief Stubbs]

I saw them live in July and they played it on the Spanish acoustic guitars.
Saying they played it is an overstatement.
And I saw them in July and it was a synth.

[killer_roach]

The most glaring example of overcharting in GH3 is Before I Forget... from talking to a guitarist friend of mine, he says that it's possible to do the fretwork on that song with only one finger. Yet in GH3 it is loaded for bear with three-note chords. It's basically done to give the appearance of difficulty, even when it doesn't exist, because the song "sounds like" it should be hard.

Not completely disparaging Neversoft's charting skills, as they are certainly serviceable in most cases, just they seem to be well on their way to copying the Guitar Freaks model of "add long, crazy strings of chords, just because".

[Destromas]

The most glaring example of overcharting in GH3 is Before I Forget... from talking to a guitarist friend of mine, he says that it's possible to do the fretwork on that song with only one finger. Yet in GH3 it is loaded for bear with three-note chords. It's basically done to give the appearance of difficulty, even when it doesn't exist, because the song "sounds like" it should be hard.

Not completely disparaging Neversoft's charting skills, as they are certainly serviceable in most cases, just they seem to be well on their way to copying the Guitar Freaks model of "add long, crazy strings of chords, just because".

Now that I think about it, Before I Forget can be done with only one finger. That's savage amounts of bad.

[Gaiad]

Overcharting = Sacrificing fun for realism. When people play these games, they aren't looking to play it just like a real guitar, because it's not a real guitar. It's 5 colored buttons. Yeah, GH3 is harder, but that's because they used the tabs for the songs, which completely sacrifices the fun. The ones who do think it's more fun are the masochistic ScoreHero type players that already had 99% on Jordan before this game came out.

Never been to scorehero or whatever, and never played Jordan, and I think GH is more fun.


I look at the tab and see that only 2 fingers are used for the chords. Whats your point?


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------6-6---------------------------------------------------|
D|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--6-6--8-8--x-x--6-6--5--3--3---------------------------|
A|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--4-4--8-8--x-x--6-6--3--3--3---------------------------|
E|-x-x-x-x--6-6--x-x-------6-6--x-x--4-4--3--1--1---------------------------|

2 fingers for that and


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
D|--2-2----4-4----6-6----2-2----2-2----4-4----6-6----6-6--------------------|
A|--2-2----4-4----6-6----2-2----2-2----4-4----6-6----6-6--------------------|
E|--0-0----2-2----4-4----0-0----0-0----2-2----4-4----4-4--------------------|

Also only 2 fingers for that too.

Strange, I use three fingers when I play those chords. :X

[Rev0lver]

Never been to scorehero or whatever, and never played Jordan, and I think GH is more fun.


Why?


Strange, I use three fingers when I play those chords. :X

What? Why the hell would you use 3 fingers for that?

[Kudo]

Strange, I use three fingers when I play those chords. :X

No offense, but I'd hazard to guess you aren't very experienced.

It's kind of funny if you think about it. The TC came in here (and made a mistake, but has owned up to it--more than most :)) and accused RB of undercharting with two-button chords because of the tabs 'seeming' to require three fingers. What's weird is... It kind of looks like, to me, that some of Neversoft's charts may be based on how an amateur may read internet tabs and not actual music. I'm just saying. :rolleyes:

[thecodinghero]

Why? What? Why the hell would you use 3 fingers for that?

Ok, so I just had to ask some 'tar buddies of mine. The best explanation I got is from a 12 year player, "I would use two fingers, but I know this girl who would probably use three because she has tiny hands and can't bridge. When we play together I always see her using all those tiny fingers while I'm just using one. She's way better than me though." Everyone else I talked to basically said the same thing as most everyone here. Two fingers.

[OldFogey]

Well in that case I could just not know jack about guitar tabs. :p

Well -- how should a barre chord A on the 5th fret be charted? Six notes are sounded on the guitar. Suppose you had a barre chord A and then a barre chord D both on the 5th fret. How could you differentiate them?

But musically those chords are only made up of three notes -- it's just that some of the notes are doubled or even tripled at octave intervals. They are really triads -- three note chords.

I think it makes perfect sense to chart those are three button chords in the game.

A power chord omits the third, so it's really a diad. A lot of rock is about power chords. I can play a four or even five note power chord on the guitar. Should I have to chart that with all five buttons pressed? I think it's better to chart it as a 2-note chord.

[Sir_Phobos]

My favorite example for overcharting is "Before I Forget". The intro riff and when it gets louder are played the same, there is just a second guitar coming in that makes it louder. The whole song is basically played with one finger. Easily the most obnoxious song to play on guitar in GH. The bridge section is just stupid.

[Destromas]

You people are ridiculous. Power chords are two pitches no matter how you look at them. Barre chords are typically the three-note chords (or at least they should be). And for people who are using three fingers to play power chords with the octaves, try using your index and pinky. If your pinky isn't strong enough, neither is your playing. I don't say that to be a jerk, I say that because your finger strength should improve if you actually practice.

[svartikins]

You people are ridiculous. Power chords are two pitches no matter how you look at them. Barre chords are typically the three-note chords (or at least they should be). And for people who are using three fingers to play power chords with the octaves, try using your index and pinky. If your pinky isn't strong enough, neither is your playing. I don't say that to be a jerk, I say that because your finger strength should improve if you actually practice.

No, I play power chords (with octaves) with three fingers and saying that just cause my pinky isn't strong enough to do that neither is my playing is a joke. Sometimes, it's about preference and how you learn to do things. Hell, I could tell everyone it's possible to play power chords with ONE finger if they went into Drop D.

That being said if you're talking about synth in Guitar Hero 3, you're forgetting Knights of Cydonia which has the random synthy breakdown before the triplet gallop.

[Destromas]

No, I play power chords (with octaves) with three fingers and saying that just cause my pinky isn't strong enough to do that neither is my playing is a joke. Sometimes, it's about preference and how you learn to do things. Hell, I could tell everyone it's possible to play power chords with ONE finger if they went into Drop D.

That being said if you're talking about synth in Guitar Hero 3, you're forgetting Knights of Cydonia which has the random synthy breakdown before the triplet gallop.

I was more referring to people who said their hands are small, or play with 3 for whatever reason.

And what about Knights of Cydonia? I know what part you're talking about.

[svartikins]

I was more referring to people who said their hands are small, or play with 3 for whatever reason.

And what about Knights of Cydonia? I know what part you're talking about.

The part you play over "NO ONE'S GONNA TAAAAKE ME ALLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE!" is synth for the first couple of rounds.

[ActionJackson]

I find that bonus songs are the ones most overcharted in GH3, as well as some of the early DLC songs (Velvet Revolver pack especially). In the main setlist, Before I Forget, Stricken, and Welcome to the Jungle are the ones that stand out as poorly charted. But many songs, like La Grange, Pride and Joy, and Even Flow, are perfectly charted, and there's been improvement in recent DLC. I have high expectations for GH:WT charting and the few videos I've seen are looking good so far.

[ExpertDrummer]

I look at the tab and see that only 2 fingers are used for the chords. Whats your point?


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------6-6---------------------------------------------------|
D|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--6-6--8-8--x-x--6-6--5--3--3---------------------------|
A|-x-x-x-x--8-8--x-x--4-4--8-8--x-x--6-6--3--3--3---------------------------|
E|-x-x-x-x--6-6--x-x-------6-6--x-x--4-4--3--1--1---------------------------|

2 fingers for that and


e|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
D|--2-2----4-4----6-6----2-2----2-2----4-4----6-6----6-6--------------------|
A|--2-2----4-4----6-6----2-2----2-2----4-4----6-6----6-6--------------------|
E|--0-0----2-2----4-4----0-0----0-0----2-2----4-4----4-4--------------------|

Also only 2 fingers for that too.
It is over charted...all...the...way.

My reason is the quote(QFT)