Broken down strums after 3 hours of play x 2

[chaoticprout]

Hey guys, first of all: This game is easily my Game of the Year, I love it to DEATH, so much fun I've had. The one problem (other than getting a broken hub) is that both of the guitars that my friend and I got (we got 2 bundles) have had their downstrums rendered utterly useless. This first happened with one guitar and we thought that it was possibly a bad guitar, while the other one worked. About 30 minutes later the exact same problem happened with the other guitar, and you could physically feel a difference in the downstrums. Note: we weren't strumming hard at all. We had to then switch to our 2 Les Pauls from GH3, which saved our World Tour run.
On top of that, 3 reports on the NeoGAF forums have been made similiar to my problems regarding the downstrum. Thoughts, anyone else have these problems?

[Qweets]

god I hope your lieing.

[Electric_Zen]

That is very bad news. So much for it being a pre-production issue.

Thanks for the warning. I am going to try hard to get a second bundle so that I can return one if this problem hits me.

[Flea_funk]

o ****. And I don't have a controller for 360 from GHIII (I have it for PS2)

[Apples]

Ouch, I feel for ya man.

[foonami]

Faulty equipment is never a good thing...I havent played the demo but I have the exact same problem with my les Paul for the 360 ...and they wouldn't take it back cause I didn't have a reciept ...

[Keebler]

Looks like someone is gonna have to start experimenting with home fixes for this problem.

[chaoticprout]

I'm honestly not lying, I got 2 copies last thursday (the day the guitars stopped working), I've just been too caught up playing to post. #2 band in Career Combined Score leaderboards! I really hope harmonix recognizes this issue, because it really sucks ><

[Transbrak]

man that sucks, any problems with the drums yet? I prolly wont touch my guitar for a month with all the drumming and singing I plan on doing

[Mr_GtD]

You might've just been really unlucky. The guitar at my Best Buy is still working perfectly, minus the strap of course.

[chaoticprout]

The drums are perfect. And both guitars have the same problem, which is the problem the one at my local best buy had. Now that I think of it, the guitar at e for all had the same probem. Jesus this sucks.

[rockst01]

This is what a harmonix dev said on the something awful forums about this



For the two pre-release people that had issues with their guitar - I'd wait until Tuesday before sending your guitars back. I believe there may be a title update on day 1 that makes things happy for you again. Such is the life of retailers breaking street date and making life hard for us.

[Qweets]

Yeah I was just reading that myself, apparently its an issue they can handle software side, lets all hope to god this is true..

[chaoticprout]

I really hope that's true, because I love the strat and need the solo buttons for green grass hahahaa

[Metalteeth]

I certainly hope this is fixed, considering I am a VERY hard downstrummer... ;)

[Angry_Pirate]

Yeah this is the only thing that makes me sick to my stomach. I've been looking forward to the Strat for months and hate that it seems to be having so many issues. I have an Xplorer but really would rather use the new guitar.

[Schultzy]

I hope to God this isn't the case for all the guitars. >_<
You think they'll do a thing like Nintendo did for the Wii straps when those were found to be somewhat faulty and...replace the guitars...? :(

[Qweets]

HMX dev is saying there is a patch day 1 and the ps2 version will have the patch on the disk itself.. So lets hope all goes well.

[chaoticprout]

Realistically, if the problem doesn't get fixed on tuesday, I'm expecting a free replacement for my guitar and hub(lol), considering I paid this much for the package, you know?

[Darklor]

I'm honestly not lying, I got 2 copies last thursday (the day the guitars stopped working), I've just been too caught up playing to post. #2 band in Career Combined Score leaderboards! I really hope harmonix recognizes this issue, because it really sucks ><

You're not lying, my guitar is faulty too. My up and down strums work, but it's registering too many hits, or not enough hits at some points. This is a shame because I liked the feel of the new guitar more than the other guitars. Back to the Les Paul for me as well.

[Darklor]

This is what a harmonix dev said on the something awful forums about this


I was waiting until Tuesday anyway, because, well.. I didn't think EA would want to deal with pre-release issues before release day.

[chaoticprout]

Yeah, the support.ea.com/rockband site isn't working at the moment anyway, so hopefully this patch will fix it.

[Transbrak]

hopefully this patch fixes things otherwise there will be a few thousand angry people at ea's doorstep

[scain826]

This is very, very bad news.

Has Harmonix released any definite info on guitar replacement/repair?

With all the talk of supply shortages, I'd hate to think that you have to exchange a bundle at a store.

[HoboJoe]

you guys ever think this was calculated by Harmonix to combat the broken street dates? Make the hardware unplayable until a patch "fixes" it, ironically on release day. Mkes perfect sense to me. You got it early...you shall pay for your shenanigans!! lol :D

They cant control broken street dates, but they CAN control the 0's and 1's...

[scain826]

Also: Is this something that is capable of being fixed via a software update? It sounds like a physical hardware issue (and has been treated as such by Harmonix, replacing broken demo guitars and citing faulty pre-production manufacturing.)

[Darklor]

you guys ever think this was calculated by Harmonix to combat the broken street dates? Make the hardware unplayable until a patch "fixes" it, ironically on release day. Mkes perfect sense to me. You got it early...you shall pay for your shenanigans!! lol :D

They cant control broken street dates, but they CAN control the 0's and 1's...


Yes, I think it's perfectly wise to release faulty hardware / software in box which gets patched later by an update. I mean, I love making sure to have people on my forums spread panic and bad word about product that isn't even being sold yet to the masses. Makes perfect sense to me.

c'mon man, think about it, that's just a very bad idea. I doubt it.

[bigb341]

you guys ever think this was calculated by Harmonix to combat the broken street dates? Make the hardware unplayable until a patch "fixes" it, ironically on release day. Mkes perfect sense to me. You got it early...you shall pay for your shenanigans!! lol :D

They cant control broken street dates, but they CAN control the 0's and 1's...


i tottaly agree with you and get where your coming from. it makes perfect sense to me that they would do that

[Darklor]

Also: Is this something that is capable of being fixed via a software update? It sounds like a physical hardware issue (and has been treated as such by Harmonix, replacing broken demo guitars and citing faulty pre-production manufacturing.)

I suppose it's able to be fixed by an update, but, I don't know how the guitar truly works, so. can't say. If not, I'm sure that the faulty guitars can be replaced. No big deal, most people have a back up guitar which will hold them over until they get their replacement.

[Transbrak]

i tottaly agree with you and get where your coming from. it makes perfect sense to me that they would do that

i think your read too many conspiracy theorys

[bounchfx]

I can't imagine them doing that. what about the people that aren't online for a patch?

that would be foolish.

sure hope my guitar doesnt have any problems!

[undertow]

If it was software related and able to be resolved in a patch, why would the Les Pauls or X-Plorer's work, immediately after the Stratocaster didn't?

Someone try to explain that one, lol.

[Qweets]

perhaps the guitar is quite a bit different then the xplorer n such, games code changes probably based on what guitar you have plugged in and knows which way to map the buttons.. Apparently other guitar issues in the past were solved with updates as well. on like GH2

[chaoticprout]

The signals the Strat sends may be different than the ones the GH guitars send

[Schultzy]

What if it's just a physical problem with the strum, such as the case with the Nintendo Wii strap? A patch can't fix that.

Oh and by the way, you can use the D pad instead of strumming. I did it at the Best Buy demo. Just an FYI.

[Qweets]

do you REALLY think that they wouldn't fix this and release the game KNOWING this would happen? I mean I heard the guitar was doing the same thing at E for all, now that kind of exposure they were sure to hear about it and actually see it themselves, there is no way in hell that they don't know that this is happening. You know how bad things would get if EVERY bundle they shipped out had this problem with the guitar? The guy said the patch should fix it on the SA forums, so lets hope its true.

[Qweets]

oh and if it does end up being hardware related, they will surely replace it, or some guitar modder will find and easy way to fix it yourself, they allways did that stuff back with GH1 and 2.

[Eman311]

No way its software related if a GH2 guitar works with no issues.

If its hardware, good luck to any of us getting a replacement or a fix. Lets hope for no issues.

If i do, i'm marching down to HMX myself and pounding down their doors.

[rockst01]

No way its software related if a GH2 guitar works with no issues.

If its hardware, good luck to any of us getting a replacement or a fix. Lets hope for no issues.

If i do, i'm marching down to HMX myself and pounding down their doors.

It could very well be software related. They did manage to fix the whammy bar issue on the xplorer through an update after all.

[Eman311]

It could very well be software related. They did manage to fix the whammy bar issue on the xplorer through an update after all.

That is a good point. But its not something they noticed right at the beginning of play. The guitar eventually broke down to becoming unusable. That wouldnt happen with software.

I bet its an easy fix. The strum bar certainly doesnt require a lot of push on it to register.

[BeckRokk]

Yeah, I'm having the same problem with my Strat. The strumbar just isn't up to snuff.Whatever the problem is, it looks like it's production-wide, and not an isolated incident.

[Schultzy]

...this does not look good...:(

[Qweets]

It's probably some code between the guitar and game and it not sending the signal correctly or some junk like that.

[Eman311]

It's probably some code between the guitar and game and it not sending the signal correctly or some junk like that.

Then why wasn't this a problem right out of the box? It's breaking down too quickly. If mine breaks I'm gonna open it up and fix it myself. That's what engineers are supposed to do :p

[Schultzy]

No, I could see this as being a physical problem, not a software one, because that strum bar does seem quite a bit 'looser', for lack of a better word, than the GH guitars.

[Qweets]

but then why aren't the reviewers having the same problem? and why isn't harmonix themselves having the same guitar issues? They are surely playing the game on the same hardware they are selling right? HOW could they ship every single bundle knowing it is going to stop working properly within hours of play? That just doesn't make sense to me.

[Eman311]

Well i'd say its to early to claim its an official issue quite yet. One Tuesday night hits we'll know. I'm guessign there will be a fair amount of defective product, but not nationwide.

[Schultzy]

They ARE having the same problem. The vast majority of them say that have some problem with the guitar, but put the blame to the fact that it's, quote "pre-production".

[rockst01]

but then why aren't the reviewers having the same problem? and why isn't harmonix themselves having the same guitar issues? They are surely playing the game on the same hardware they are selling right? HOW could they ship every single bundle knowing it is going to stop working properly within hours of play? That just doesn't make sense to me.

This is what I don't get. From all the people that have the bundle, it seems that almost everyone is having this strumbar issue. Why didn't anyone notice this until now if it takes as little as 3 hours for the strumbar to be rendered useless.

[Hozuko]

I don't have the game at my house, but at the kiosk that I played it at, the strum bar was acting very funny. I thought it was just because of all the kids playing with it, which may be true, but now...I don't know. You'd think with all of EA's money...ah, that's a rant for another day.

[jonfitzsimon]

it would be nice to hear from one of the hmx guys about this.

[Eman311]

it would be nice to hear from one of the hmx guys about this.

we won't until the game officially releases.

[Schultzy]

Well i'd say its to early to claim its an official issue quite yet. One Tuesday night hits we'll know. I'm guessign there will be a fair amount of defective product, but not nationwide.

I disagree. I can easily see this becoming a nation-wide problem. An epidemic, if you will. :D

We might have the biggest upset here since Pac Man on the Atari, folks. :p

[MeleeMan]

Well, this sucks.

[Qweets]

I don't have the game at my house, but at the kiosk that I played it at, the strum bar was acting very funny. I thought it was just because of all the kids playing with it, which may be true, but now...I don't know. You'd think with all of EA's money...ah, that's a rant for another day.

my bestbuy demo hadn't seen a lot of use and the downstrum didn't work AT ALL, upstrum worked great and i could play songs flawlessly but i had to tap up like a madman for fast passages, I just hope to god its fixed via update and we can all rock to our hearts content.

[Eman311]

I disagree. I can easily see this becoming a nation-wide problem. An epidemic, if you will. :D

We might have the biggest upset here since Pac Man on the Atari, folks. :p

If youre right, I wont come anywhere near these forums. it will be chaotic. 80,000 my strum bar broke! threads mixed with "DIE HMX" threads mixed with "where's the rest of the dlc" threads mixed with "no online or solo BWT? OMG WTF DIE HMX"

[Eman311]

my bestbuy demo hadn't seen a lot of use and the downstrum didn't work AT ALL, upstrum worked great and i could play songs flawlessly but i had to tap up like a madman for fast passages, I just hope to god its fixed via update and we can all rock to our hearts content.

open up the guitar, switch around the strum bar? it seems pretty symmetric.

[Reaper2099]

maybe its a problem with some models like GH2 was for the 360, how some guitars had the problem and some did not, just throwing it out there

[Schultzy]

maybe its a problem with some models like GH2 was for the 360, how some guitars had the problem and some did not, just throwing it out there

You mean like there's two versions of the guitar out there? Seems...plausible...*shrug*

[Qweets]

only thing I heard of with xplorer problems was the whammy bar thing which got fixed via an update? The hmx guy on SA seemed pretty confident this patch will fix the issue.

[rockst01]

You mean like there's two versions of the guitar out there? Seems...plausible...*shrug*

Well there were 2 versions of the xplorer, that had the headset plug in different spots. There were also whammy bar problems with certain batches of the xplorer. Some people got lucky and had no problems while people in a bad batch of controllers had to wait for that fix in order to whammy bar properly. I hope that these strumbar issues are confined to just a small batch of stratocasters. Harmonix usually makes durable controllers, I hate for this one to buck that trend. My PS2 SG from when I got GH1 back in 2005 still works fine.

[Schultzy]

But what are the chances that only the people who have this game so far all got bad Strats?

[MeleeMan]

But what are the chances that only the people who have this game so far all got bad Strats?

That's right. If everyone got bad Strats, then this would be a major problem and it would be discussed more often.

[Qweets]

But what are the chances that only the people who have this game so far all got bad Strats?

Yeah true that, but seriously there is NO way this was overlooked by them. They have the game in hand in their office if ALL of the guitars are doing this the patch has to fix it surely. They wouldn't produce and sell all of them if they k new they were going to have to replace every single one.

[AdamBomb629]

I find it very hard to believe that these prototypes haven't been tested thoroughly. I'll reserve my judgement until Tuesday.

[Schultzy]

I mean, I can see the demo ones all being busted because of a 'pre-production' issue, but this this is a production model, with the same pre production problems? That doesn't make much sense to me, that Harmonix would blatantly not fix something.

Question to anyone with the game already: Are there any visible differences to the guitar than the ones in the demo kiosks in Best Buy and the like?

[Reaper2099]

also consider that all the people who bought it early are not members of the forums

[Qweets]

darklor definitely has the game and his guitar is messed up hes a member here, dunno how long but hes a trustworthy guy

[Schultzy]

Well, looks like we'll just have to wait and see what comes of all this.

*braces self for impact*

[chaoticprout]

I just tested the guitar now, it seems like the downstrum now counts it as 2 downstrums when i hit it, and upstrum is normal. it's acting very funky

[AdamBomb629]

Plug it into your computer and check it through the joystick calibration. That will tell you if it is registering right.

[Schultzy]

I just tested the guitar now, it seems like the downstrum now counts it as 2 downstrums when i hit it, and upstrum is normal. it's acting very funky

Could it be a sensor issue?

[chaoticprout]

ok after f'ing around with it in the menu, if it downstrum REALLY REALLY softly, it registers normally, if i downstrum normally (not hard) it counts as a double strum, and if i downstrum hard, it counts as a double strum. There's a chance it's being too sensitive, which gives me hope that the update can fix this issue.

[Schultzy]

Ok, well that could be fixed with a patch, but I'm still thinkin that it's a physical issue...

[blue_dragonzero]

ok after f'ing around with it in the menu, if it downstrum REALLY REALLY softly, it registers normally, if i downstrum normally (not hard) it counts as a double strum, and if i downstrum hard, it counts as a double strum. There's a chance it's being too sensitive, which gives me hope that the update can fix this issue.

See test everything before you scare people like that ya' bastard. ;)

[Motorcity_Madman]

It could be a software issue that is only activated once a particular series of events occurs. I worked at Chrysler for 3 years and we had seen issues with pre and post production cars in electrical, acessory, and tranny problems that were directly caused by a few specific codecs that the PCM saw and vuwala... the damn thing wont shift into second. Sometimes endurance testing just cant catch all the issues because it is the 1 of the 100000000000000000000 combinations of possile events that trip the problem that wasnt included in the testing. Only Tuesday will tell

[BeckRokk]

Plug it into your computer and check it through the joystick calibration. That will tell you if it is registering right.

I plugged in my guitar but it asked to check for a Windows update. Should I do it or try to manually set it?

[hardyfoster]

if that's the case, maybe it's TOO sensitive. that takes the fun out of strumming with authority. you know, like that last note of a song, etc....

maybe i'll have to open it and fix it with a wad of foil, like i used to fix broken atari controllers.

[bumbousdude25]

Well, I was scared at first, but after reading that test, I relaxed a bit. It sounds a lot like this can be fixed with an online patch that just lowers the sensitivity. That's all :)

[Maposaurus]

I guess there's an upside to me not getting it yet, huh?

Maybe by the time the PS2 bundles come, we'll be awwwright.

[chaoticprout]

I'd still like to note that 2nd of the guitars that broke continues to have the downstrums only to work 50% of the time issue. No idea what's going on here.

[Schultzy]

It could be a software issue that is only activated once a particular series of events occurs. I worked at Chrysler for 3 years and we had seen issues with pre and post production cars in electrical, acessory, and tranny problems that were directly caused by a few specific codecs that the PCM saw and vuwala... the damn thing wont shift into second. Sometimes endurance testing just cant catch all the issues because it is the 1 of the 100000000000000000000 combinations of possile events that trip the problem that wasnt included in the testing. Only Tuesday will tell

*snicker*
"Tranny Problems"
LoL
Sounds like that could be a band name.

Back on topic, we'll just have to wait and see what turns up.

[Silent88]

All of the demos where I live have that exact same problem. Then again, it may be the kids trying to play the guitar and strum wildly on the controller.

[LongDarkBlues]

I just tested the guitar now, it seems like the downstrum now counts it as 2 downstrums when i hit it, and upstrum is normal. it's acting very funky

That definitely sounds fixable with software

[scain826]

About 30 minutes later the exact same problem happened with the other guitar, and you could physically feel a difference in the downstrums.

People, this is not software.

[JBabin3xb]

honestly, i really think its just too sensitive and, knowing that, its trying to correct itself by eliminating some "extra" strums. I think a software a update can calibrate the game to read the hat right, which i'm assuming they are still using for strum ( cause of d-pad strumming )

if not, i better have a working guitar in the mail from harmonix...

[Eman311]

People need to not panic and just wait to get the game and hope for the test. At worst, you have to play the drums :p

[Schultzy]

People need to not panic and just wait to get the game and hope for the test. At worst, you have to play the drums :p

...or use the D Pad. *shrug*

[chaoticprout]

People need to not panic and just wait to get the game and hope for the test. At worst, you have to play the drums :p

Which is what I'm doing right now ;)

[Motorcity_Madman]

*snicker*
Sounds like that could be a band name.


Could be worse, could be drivin a Ford and be **** out on the road. Or even worse....Foreign:rolleyes:

[Qweets]

I surely hope this doesn't become some epidemic and it is actually faulty hardware, they would lose so much money and people would be so pissed, might ruin the future for rockband.

[The_Vampire_Lestat]

If it was a software issue... how do people explain it working fine and then not registering?

Either one or two things.

1. People are lying about having issues.

2. It's faulty hardware.


Not that people on the internet do not lie.... but as many as there are?

Anyone ask the guy who is posting the Rock Band vids if he got a Strat? Or did he just buy the game?

[Qweets]

But didn't the same thing happen with the whammy? It worked fine then went weird and they fixed it via update?

[The_Vampire_Lestat]

But didn't the same thing happen with the whammy? It worked fine then went weird and they fixed it via update?

Nah people had issues right out of the box.

[scain826]

From Destructoid.com, describing a visit to the Harmonix offices:

"Action figures were perched on desks, and rock posters and concept art adorned the walls. It seemed it was impossible to walk into a room without seeing a table full of dismantled Fender guitar controllers, or a lone bass drum pedal sitting in the corner."

So ... consistently broken strum bars ... tables full of dismantled guitars in the office ... anyone want to take a stab at a conspiracy theory?

[StevtimusPrime]

Guys, chill. One of the guys said it would be fixable in via patch, so it'll be fixable via patch. All you people that are saying it can't should stop, it's embarassing.

HMX: Yeah the game we made, the guitar has a bit of a problem, we can fix it with a patch on launch day.

You Guys: Nope. You can't do that.

HMX: ...

I mean really. And then even if it doesn't, just use another guitar, or the D-pad like that one guy's been saying, but honestly stop fretting so much.

[M3wThr33]

I hope that's true.

[Qweets]

Yeah, for real. I'm just skeptical is all, I'd like a little more info about it an such. Although I don't have my bundle yet I'm just worried is all like everyone else I'm sure.

[StevtimusPrime]

Yeah, I understand the worry, who wouldn't be? But it won't be THAT big of a deal, and the people walking around going "HMX CAN'T FIX IT." aren't helping make people worry less.

[The_Vampire_Lestat]

Guys, chill. One of the guys said it would be fixable in via patch, so it'll be fixable via patch. All you people that are saying it can't should stop, it's embarassing.

HMX: Yeah the game we made, the guitar has a bit of a problem, we can fix it with a patch on launch day.

You Guys: Nope. You can't do that.

HMX: ...

I mean really. And then even if it doesn't, just use another guitar, or the D-pad like that one guy's been saying, but honestly stop fretting so much.

Only reason Im worried is because the excuses.

Why do the best buy demos keep junking out? Ohh theyre prototypes.

Why are the people who are getting the final version havig theirs junk out? Oh. we'll patch it.

Seems like theyre avoiding the issue. Rather than saying... yeah we messed up.

[skyehill]

Well that's great. We were told the crappy guitars in Best Buys were breaking because they were prototypes. What a bunch of BS. And conveniently Harmonix isn't selling just the drums seperately until next year. I have no interest in buying one of these fragile guitars. It appears that Red Octane knew what they were doing as far as hardware was concerned after all.

[skyehill]

god I hope your lieing.

And holy crap, I hope you're still in school.

[skyehill]

i tottaly agree with you and get where your coming from. it makes perfect sense to me that they would do that

Then you're as big of an idiot as the person that suggested they'd break the game just to harm pre-release buyers. What a completely moronic idea.

[scain826]

I mean really. And then even if it doesn't, just use another guitar, or the D-pad like that one guy's been saying, but honestly stop fretting so much.


"Fretting." Get it? Fretting? It's hilarious.


Also: If the HMX peeps feels its patchable, that's great. Wonderful to hear. That makes this thread a win-win. The skeptics can continue stressing, and feel a huge rush of relief when news is posted of a fix on Tuesday OR feel a huge rush of I-told-ya-so when the patch doesn't fix the issue.

On the count of three, worrying may commence. One. Two. Three. Fret!

[Blue88]

Well, It's settled. I'm going to have to learn to play guitar left-handed and bass right handed. So much for this game being too easy.

[Qweets]

And holy crap, I hope you're still in school.

.... What the hell is with the attitude? I made a grammar mistake forgive me.

[Eman311]

Guys, chill. One of the guys said it would be fixable in via patch, so it'll be fixable via patch. All you people that are saying it can't should stop, it's embarassing.

HMX: Yeah the game we made, the guitar has a bit of a problem, we can fix it with a patch on launch day.

You Guys: Nope. You can't do that.

HMX: ...

I mean really. And then even if it doesn't, just use another guitar, or the D-pad like that one guy's been saying, but honestly stop fretting so much.
who and when did they say this?

[rockst01]

who and when did they say this?

A Harmonix dev on the something awful forums posted this





For the two pre-release people that had issues with their guitar - I'd wait until Tuesday before sending your guitars back. I believe there may be a title update on day 1 that makes things happy for you again. Such is the life of retailers breaking street date and making life hard for us.

[Qweets]

who and when did they say this?

some HMX guy who posts on Something Awful had told 2 people there who posted that their strats were not working properly not to try and send it in just yet and to wait till tuesday for a patch that is going to fix it or some junk.

[nVizzle]

"Believe" and "may" aren't very reassuring words.

[AdamBomb629]

A Harmonix dev on the something awful forums posted this

Does anyone have a link to the somethingawful forums with the comment? Why has no one from Harmonix stepped in on this thread if it had merit?

[Eman311]

Does anyone have a link to the somethingawful forums with the comment? Why has no one from Harmonix stepped in on this thread if it had merit?

because it's sunday

[AdamBomb629]

because it's sunday

Oh right. I forgot. :o

[admanimal]

Does anyone have a link to the somethingawful forums with the comment? Why has no one from Harmonix stepped in on this thread if it had merit?

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2667875&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=75

The post is by CptUnderpants. I haven't had a chance to see what else he has posted to veryify that he is a Harmonix employee, but everyone on the forum there seems to believe it, so I'll go with them.

He says on the next page in that thread that the update was submitted to PSN and XBL along with their day 1 DLC content, so they should all appear together on Tuesday.

[Angry_Pirate]

Does anyone have a link to the somethingawful forums with the comment? Why has no one from Harmonix stepped in on this thread if it had merit?

Cause its a weekend and their busy NOT answering to the whims of the boards. Seriously just wait and see! It's out of our hands anyways. :cool:

[rockbandforever]

CptUnderpant from the something awful website is spraynwipe from our forums look at the avatar

[admanimal]

CptUnderpant from the something awful website is spraynwipe from our forums look at the avatar

Ah right, we know that spraynwipe is HMX, right?

[Qweets]

Only reason ppl are freaking out even tho they said this patch would fix the problems is because it seems like its hardware related and its questionable on how a software update would fix it.

[ImUrDaddy]

Then why wasn't this a problem right out of the box? It's breaking down too quickly. If mine breaks I'm gonna open it up and fix it myself. That's what engineers are supposed to do :p

Well I am no game developer, but having an egnineering background, I could absolutely see a software patch allowing a fix to the problem. If it was truly a pure hardware issue, like a microswitch malfunctioning or something, then I agree that a software update will do squat. However, Since there is no "click" then maybe they operate off a resistance value. The software determines the threshold for what is a strum and what is not. But adjusting these values, they can fix the problem.

I am not saying this is the case, but just pointing out that you can't throw another guitar on that works and say that it is purely hardware based. Just because hardware might have failed in some way, the software might be able to compensate for it.

[Eman311]

Well I am no game developer, but having an egnineering background, I could absolutely see a software patch allowing a fix to the problem. If it was truly a pure hardware issue, like a microswitch malfunctioning or something, then I agree that a software update will do squat. However, Since there is no "click" then maybe they operate off a resistance value. The software determines the threshold for what is a strum and what is not. But adjusting these values, they can fix the problem.

I am not saying this is the case, but just pointing out that you can't throw another guitar on that works and say that it is purely hardware based. Just because hardware might have failed in some way, the software might be able to compensate for it.

Well the thing was, when I first jumped into this thread it was a matter of "it worked for 3 hours then stopped responding completely. another guitar did respond" This later turned out it was still responding, but recording extra strums and simply being much too sensitive. carely that can be fixed via a patch.

[ImUrDaddy]

I just tested the guitar now, it seems like the downstrum now counts it as 2 downstrums when i hit it, and upstrum is normal. it's acting very funky

This is some more evidence that a software update can fix the problem. Pure absolute wild speculation here, but lets say the strum bar is resitive, like a potentiometer and they register a strum based on what voltage it sees. When you go past that value, maybe it strums when you are in range, you go out of range, then on the way back it registers again. All things that can be "tweaked" with a software update.

[drummer_and_proud]

I swear. I on't know who to blame if anybody is here to blame in the first place. Whether this patch works or not...I feel like Im going to smash my GH controllers like a real guitar player. (I just seem to be in the grouchy mood today.:o)

[Struct09]

People should chill out a little bit. After all, your guitars are under a 60 day warranty: http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/31/dsc04195.jpg

[drummer_and_proud]

People should chill out a little bit. After all, your guitars are under a 60 day warranty: http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/31/dsc04195.jpg

That's the very first time I got to look inside of the "Rock Box"...I feel like I'm going to cough up tears.-pulls out hankerchief and blows nose-:p

[rockbandforever]

Ah right, we know that spraynwipe is HMX, right?

look up his name he is the sr. guy in hmx

[Qweets]

Ah ok cool

[AdamBomb629]

Ah right, we know that spraynwipe is HMX, right?

spraynwipe knows his stuff, so I'm not worried in the slightest.

[Koneesha]

spraynwipe knows his stuff, so I'm not worried in the slightest.
i agree 10 chacters

[Darklor]

darklor definitely has the game and his guitar is messed up hes a member here, dunno how long but hes a trustworthy guy

Thanks Qweets

Honestly guys, settle down, the issue will be fixed one way or the other. Either by software patch, or replacement guitar.

As a gamer and businessperson with friends in the industry, there is NO way that any company would put a product out there that was defective. The most they would do is make it non active with code in the software to recognize the date/time so that you couldn't use it early. That would cause a HUGE PR nightmare, and cost the company sales.

On another point, if we all can live with our Xbox systems dying 3 and 4+ times over, we can live with this. Most of us have extra guitars, of can get fill-in guitars cheap.... or, do somthing unusual in the mean time like, play with the drums set, or microphone.

This is a quality game from a quality company.. just relax.

[Qweets]

Good post from a good dude :) We shall see tuesday what happens :D

[Eman311]

Thanks Qweets

Honestly guys, settle down, the issue will be fixed one way or the other. Either by software patch, or replacement guitar.

As a gamer and businessperson with friends in the industry, there is NO way that any company would put a product out there that was defective. The most they would do is make it non active with code in the software to recognize the date/time so that you couldn't use it early. That would cause a HUGE PR nightmare, and cost the company sales.

On another point, if we all can live with our Xbox systems dying 3 and 4+ times over, we can live with this. Most of us have extra guitars, of can get fill-in guitars cheap.... or, do somthing unusual in the mean time like, play with the drums set, or microphone.

This is a quality game from a quality company.. just relax.
well said my friend.

[Rock_Band_Wii]

I'm kinda glad the possible Wii version doesn't come out yet. They could use this release to work out the kinks for future versions.

[toefer]

If HMX actually did do something to get back at anyone who was lucky to get a game ahead of the street date, I don't think the public backlash could really be that bad. I would guess that the vast majority of people who play and purchase games do so without reading about them in the days and weeks leading up to the release. If Brian Williams ever started off the evening news with "good evening, Harmonix is selling broken guitars", Harmonix could simply release a statement sharing what their little trick was, and we'd all have a laugh and get over it.

I can understand the frustration though, because a lot of us saw broken controllers at the demos (skyehill, I think, saw no less than a million broken ones). Add to that to that that some of us are worried if we'll even be getting our pre-orders on Tuesday, and this is just one more thing to make us nervous that Tuesday won't be as good of a day as we'd all been hoping.

[AdamBomb629]

The reason they wouldn't have a "pre-release to be broken" thing was because there are some people who's consoles never connect to the internet, thus making their games broken forever.

[toefer]

The reason they wouldn't have a "pre-release to be broken" thing was because there are some people who's consoles never connect to the internet, thus making their games broken forever.

True, but maybe there was some secret batch sent to the console as soon as people connected to Rock Band online, and it wasn't that way on the retail disc. That way people without the internet were never "infected" and will never need to download a fix.

[Catalytic]

I have a hard time imagining that they rigged the guitars not to work before the release date for several reasons:

1. Why wouldn't they do it to the drums too?
2. Why go through the pain and agony of explaining to people later that they didn't want you to play it before the release day?
3. Have you heard of any other console game doing this before?

[Struct09]

People, please take off your tinfoil hats.

[scain826]

True, but maybe there was some secret batch sent to the console as soon as people connected to Rock Band online, and it wasn't that way on the retail disc. That way people without the internet were never "infected" and will never need to download a fix.

Really?

I'm going to say that everyone is stretching just a bit too far, trying to convince ourselves that this is not a hardware problem. Nothing wrong with that -- it could be true, after all -- but let's keep it realistic. The guitars are faulty, and having the same problems as pre-production models. Most of us haven't gotten our hands on the actual peripherals. In 48 hours, we'll find everything out.

48 hours!!! So close!!!

[Angry_Pirate]

I think I agree with one of the above posters. The guitar strum bar may actually function more similar to the whammy bar (on resistance values). Remember some of the issues had with Xplorer whammy bars and not registering correctly? Maybe this will be addressed in a patch.

[toefer]

1. Why wouldn't they do it to the drums too?


That's what I was thinking too. This seems like the most likely reason that the guitar strum problem wasn't intentional. Let's at least hope it's something they can fix though.

[Qweets]

well if the strum works on resistance kinda like the old whammy bars n such maybe software patch to tweak the values is all it needs.. who knows.

[M3wThr33]

Analog devices can need readjusting sometimes. If the strumming is analog, then software can EASILY fix it.

[LongDarkBlues]

While I don't doubt it's fixable via software, on the SA forums someone took theirs apart and said that it's pretty binary - strumming up or down connects metal plates to send a signal.

I can't imagine they would ship that huge number of faulty guitars if it wasn't something that could be fixed. Considering it would basically bankrupt the developers to replace every single guitar, I'm sure they would have rather delayed the game than ship all faulty instruments.

[Qweets]

I wouldn't believe them unless they supplied pictures, and if thats true, sounds like it could be an easy home fix if it just needs to touch something.

[LongDarkBlues]

Well, the guy, who seemed fairly legit, was saying he opened it up and it looked fine connections-wise, but that his was still not correctly registering the downstrums and he couldn't figure out how that was something that could be solved with a software update.

It makes me pretty nervous (remember the days when console **** just worked? I've spent most of the last week waiting for my 360 to die :( - again... ) - but at the same time, the guitar at the Best Buy here worked fine for weeks under heavy use, so who knows...?

[Qweets]

Yeah I just went over there and read what he had to say, seemed fairly legit and knew what he was talking about from the sounds of it we shouldn't be having such issues at all, might just indeed be software related. I can't wait though to start seeing some strum bar hax like he was talkin about, I'd love to put the click back lol. Don't know why but I enjoyed the GH clicky strumming.

[LongDarkBlues]

I hope so... I intend to find out in 27 hours and 49 minutes!

[Qweets]

Woohoo I'm excited, if my guitar craps out oh well I'll wait to get it replaced while playin the awesome fun drums.

[TreoRock_]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but software can be coded so that it doesn't act properly until it reaches a specific date. So my guess in that HMX has a time feature that disables the guitar after it has been tested if it is before the 20th. So that people don't take advantage of it.

[Qweets]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but software can be coded so that it doesn't act properly until it reaches a specific date. So my guess in that HMX has a time feature that disables the guitar after it has been tested if it is before the 20th. So that people don't take advantage of it.

If that was the case they would do the same for drums and vocals seeing those are the newest additions there is no reason they would only screw up the guitar stuff it doesn't make sense. Not only that but the guitars were doing the same thing in demo units and at E for all.

[Angry_Pirate]

While I don't doubt it's fixable via software, on the SA forums someone took theirs apart and said that it's pretty binary - strumming up or down connects metal plates to send a signal.

I can't imagine they would ship that huge number of faulty guitars if it wasn't something that could be fixed. Considering it would basically bankrupt the developers to replace every single guitar, I'm sure they would have rather delayed the game than ship all faulty instruments.

I agree. How could a company ship out so many guitars that have strum bar issues? It doesn't seem to make sense/cents from a business major with experience in production management. You would think that a product going to be used by everyone buying a bundle would receive an overly elaborate amount of testing before it went to production. Let's keep our fingers crossed that we don't have to ship in our guitars first week. :)

[Cause I figure if they can't patch then really they have to replace them.]

[Terranova]

I'm kind of glad in a way that it's not being released in Europe yet, as HMX should be able to fix all the problems by the time it's released here, although it does suck that there are problems to begin with.

[Angry_Pirate]

In THIS (http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=8188) review they didn't seem to have a problem with the guitar after 2 days of play.

[MaineDrummer]

I sure hope this problem is software based. I am definitely worried at this point. But then how in the world can this happen? they tested it for how many hours? The tour trucks have this problem? Even if software based how did it slip by testing? My head is spinning after reading this one.

But anyway..If it is broken, it will get fixed/replaced. My big worry is the future success of HMX if this turns out to be a big problem. ..

[Bakkster]

While I don't doubt it's fixable via software, on the SA forums someone took theirs apart and said that it's pretty binary - strumming up or down connects metal plates to send a signal.

In this case, it likely only needs a debounce tweak. Switches bounce, meaning that in the act of throwing the switch, the connection is made and disconnected multiple times in a very short period. This is usually literally a physical bouncing between the two terminals.

If I had to make a guess, I would say that the stiffness of the strumbar has changed, resulting in more bounces of the switch. If the switch debouncing (turning the flickering into a single on/off signal) is hardware based (a flip-flop (http://www.mines.edu/Academic/courses/physics/phgn317/lect06/sld003.htm) for those electrically inclined), the fix is to change the timing for another strum to be recognized such that the extra bounce is not registered. If the timing is firmware based, this requires an even simpler firmware update to the on-board micro controller, increasing the bounce time to compensate for the lengthened bouncing.

And remember, the software update might actually update firmware on the controllers. As long as the hardware issue is not catastrophic, it can usually be fixed in firmware/software. Also remember that this is HMX's first outing with hardware. If they don't have a few hiccups, I would be very surprised.

[jq715861]

In this case, it likely only needs a debounce tweak. Switches bounce, meaning that in the act of throwing the switch, the connection is made and disconnected multiple times in a very short period. This is usually literally a physical bouncing between the two terminals.

If I had to make a guess, I would say that the stiffness of the strumbar has changed, resulting in more bounces of the switch. If the switch debouncing (turning the flickering into a single on/off signal) is hardware based (a flip-flop (http://www.mines.edu/Academic/courses/physics/phgn317/lect06/sld003.htm) for those electrically inclined), the fix is to change the timing for another strum to be recognized such that the extra bounce is not registered. If the timing is firmware based, this requires an even simpler firmware update to the on-board micro controller, increasing the bounce time to compensate for the lengthened bouncing.

And remember, the software update might actually update firmware on the controllers. As long as the hardware issue is not catastrophic, it can usually be fixed in firmware/software. Also remember that this is HMX's first outing with hardware. If they don't have a few hiccups, I would be very surprised.


Bakkster is smart. lol:D

[Bakkster]

Bakkster is smart. lol:D

Super hero? No, I'm an engineer. Common mistake. ;)

[AdamBomb629]

I see Harmonix folks on the board (they are listed as active on the members)... anyone care to clear this up? Canfield? JohnLok?

[skyehill]

The reason they wouldn't have a "pre-release to be broken" thing was because there are some people who's consoles never connect to the internet, thus making their games broken forever.


And those people are screwed still because they won't be able to download the patch. Bravo, harmonix, bravo.

[Eman311]

And those people are screwed still because they won't be able to download the patch. Bravo, harmonix, bravo.

This is the first time they are handling peripherals on their own, from design to implementation. What did you expect?

Also, can't you order an update disc from Microsoft?

[skyehill]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but software can be coded so that it doesn't act properly until it reaches a specific date. So my guess in that HMX has a time feature that disables the guitar after it has been tested if it is before the 20th. So that people don't take advantage of it.

This and every other post stating Harmonix did something to break games being played prior to release date is about 50 shades of stupid.

[AdamBomb629]

Yeah, that's right, you can burn an update from the website.

[skyehill]

This is the first time they are handling peripherals on their own, from design to implementation. What did you expect?

Also, can't you order an update disc from Microsoft?

You're excusing this because it's the first time they're doing their own hardware? Yikes. if the hardware is faulty, delay the release of the game until it is no longer faulty. Pretty simple concept.

[Eman311]

You're excusing this because it's the first time they're doing their own hardware? Yikes. if the hardware is faulty, delay the release of the game until it is no longer faulty. Pretty simple concept.

I'm not saying it's ok to have faulty hardware. By all acounts, on their end the retail guitars are working perfectly.

I'm just saying people shouldn't be crucifying HMX for things not going perfectly. It is quite an ambitious game.

[Electric_Zen]

Whatever the situation is, I really hope that Harmonix stays ahead of the news. Don't wait for posts on Joystiq to alert people to the problem, and stay silent for a week. Just get out there and talk about what is going on, and what you are doing about it.

The biggest mistake that Microsoft made when they had the RROD problem was underplaying it, suggesting that it was the user's fault, and refusing to communicate about what they are doing to address it.

In the long term, it didn't save them any money (they took a $1B hit to address the problem), but it made people ten times angrier about it, and changed the way that a lot of customers feel about the company.

[Bakkster]

You're excusing this because it's the first time they're doing their own hardware? Yikes. if the hardware is faulty, delay the release of the game until it is no longer faulty. Pretty simple concept.

I think it's just a little early to say this is an issue. I haven't heard of any peripherals breaking in reviewers hands except for pre-production models. This looks either isolated, or already fixed. We'll know in about 13 hours, until then there's no use freaking out.

If this issue was discovered late (after discs were printed), and is fixable in firmware/software, then it makes complete sense to fix it with a software update, rather than recall current products and reproduce them over a seemingly non-issue.

[SmokaCola]

Well... I won't really say it's not software, The whammy bar on the 360 GH2 was all screwed up. Finally they did an update one day and it worked fine. Everyone was whining and complaining their whammy bar was broken, no one gave thought that it was the software. So maybe HMX can do something about it, if not, they'll get a ton of strats this week.

[drummer_and_proud]

Guys....the dude with the conspiracy theory was most likely joking as so was he guy agreeing with him. Talk about taking sarcasm too seriously...:eek:

[Meancode]

I did not read this thread but I got an extra Fender Strat with my review copy of the game. After three days one of the Fenders does not down strum. Well, it does, but you cannot get a multiplier going as it ruins the run of notes. The other Strat I have performs with no problems at all. Sucks. It would be nice to hear that this is a software issue that can be fixed with a Title Update like the GH2 360 wammy bar issue.

[Bakkster]

After three days one of the Fenders does not down strum. Well, it does, but you cannot get a multiplier going as it ruins the run of notes.

Sounds like double-strumming, which would be almost trivially easy to fix in software.

[SmokaCola]

Guess that solves it then, it's the luck of the draw. HMX will be getting a huge box of strats within the next few weeks =\

[Halfazedninja]

This may shed some light on the faulty guitarts, taken from qj.net (http://xbox360.qj.net/Early-Rock-Band-kits-experience-issues-to-be-fixed-on-launch-date/pg/49/aid/108054)

Looks like this was calculated...

[tbradshaw]

This may shed some light on the faulty guitarts, taken from qj.net (http://xbox360.qj.net/Early-Rock-Band-kits-experience-issues-to-be-fixed-on-launch-date/pg/49/aid/108054)

Looks like this was calculated...

Looks like this was calculated? I think you meant to say "Looks like xbox360.qj.net is reporting this exact forum thread..."

So much for citing one's sources. :rolleyes:

[Darklor]

[QUOTE=Bakkster;124373]I think it's just a little early to say this is an issue. I haven't heard of any peripherals breaking in reviewers hands except for pre-production models. This looks either isolated, or already fixed. We'll know in about 13 hours, until then there's no use freaking out.

Most likely you wouldn't know in 13 hours. You'd know anywhere between 16 hours, and 3 days / 16 hours.

[Bakkster]

Most likely you wouldn't know in 13 hours. You'd know anywhere between 16 hours, and 3 days / 16 hours.

True. Either way, until we have widespread information on this and see the effect of this patch, all this freaking out is just FUD and tin-foil hats.

[eaglegoalie93]

NEW REVIEW OUT! http://www.penny-arcade.com

says that controler broke in first HOUR! truzly dah wurk 0f haxzorz.

[LongDarkBlues]

NEW REVIEW OUT! http://www.penny-arcade.com

says that controler broke in first HOUR! truzly dah wurk 0f haxzorz.

Am I ******ed? I don't see any review up on the Penny Arcade site yet.

[admanimal]

Am I ******ed? I don't see any review up on the Penny Arcade site yet.

Yeah I couldn't find it either.

[Electric_Zen]

Considering that this (http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?p=124487#post124487) was eaglegoalie's last post, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

[Bakkster]

Am I ******ed? I don't see any review up on the Penny Arcade site yet.

I assume it will go up with todays newspost. Maybe he magically has some way of knowing what they'll say ahead of time?

[Ultrace]

Considering that this (http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?p=124487#post124487) was eaglegoalie's last post, I wouldn't sweat it too much.
Thanks for the heads-up. Time to utilize the ignore feature...

[Meancode]

Sounds like double-strumming, which would be almost trivially easy to fix in software.

If it is double strumming, which I agree that is what it sounds like, why would up-strumming be all fine?

[HoboJoe]

I told ya earlier...

/gloat

They cant control the broken street dates... but they CAN control the 0's and 1's. ;)

[Bakkster]

If it is double strumming, which I agree that is what it sounds like, why would up-strumming be all fine?

The switch on the bottom/down-strum side is different/wears different/gets a different amount of use. It's also possible that you apply a slightly different amount of force to your down and up strums. You just have to wait until the update tonight, and we shall see if the patch fixes it.


I told ya earlier...

/gloat

They cant control the broken street dates... but they CAN control the 0's and 1's. ;)

I still think this is an issue that only showed itself after the game went gold. Instead of changing the gold code, they created a patch so they didn't have to scrap the already printed game discs.

[SmokaCola]

But if it's the code... why would some strats work and some wouldn't work? Firmware in the strat?

[AdamBomb629]

It could have to do with the style of the person's play.

[residentevil]

I have to say this really concerns me. I don't have a harddrive on my 360. If they have a patch to download, what am I suppose to do?

[Halfazedninja]

Looks like this was calculated? I think you meant to say "Looks like xbox360.qj.net is reporting this exact forum thread..."

So much for citing one's sources. :rolleyes:

lol i didn't even catch that. they said it was in the somethingrotten.com forums. sorry bout that.

[LongDarkBlues]

How can you even play this game without a hard drive? Can you even save a character? Unlock songs? You certainly can't download songs...

[Bakkster]

But if it's the code... why would some strats work and some wouldn't work? Firmware in the strat?

It's hardware variability that's not handled in the code, yet. For example, if the strat wears in, the strum bar signal will change. It's not broken, it's just putting out a different signal that either gets read as nothing, or as a double-strum.

Again, it seems like a minor hardware oddity that can be fixed through the firmware/software.

[SmokaCola]

I have to say this really concerns me. I don't have a harddrive on my 360. If they have a patch to download, what am I suppose to do?


...get a harddrive? I'd just go for a simple 20GB man... I mean the game really isn't worth getting unless you have a Harddrive anyway =\ If you can't afford it then there really isn't much you can do. Just going to guess... The game might apply the patch to the system, but when you turn it off you'll have to redownload every time. I don't think it'll do that though.


It's hardware variability that's not handled in the code, yet. For example, if the strat wears in, the strum bar signal will change. It's not broken, it's just putting out a different signal that either gets read as nothing, or as a double-strum.

Again, it seems like a minor hardware oddity that can be fixed through the firmware/software.

Thanks for clearing that one up for me, lets just hope this theory is right man. I don't feel like sending back such a sweet ass controller.

[Meancode]

The switch on the bottom/down-strum side is different/wears different/gets a different amount of use. It's also possible that you apply a slightly different amount of force to your down and up strums. You just have to wait until the update tonight, and we shall see if the patch fixes it.



I still think this is an issue that only showed itself after the game went gold. Instead of changing the gold code, they created a patch so they didn't have to scrap the already printed game discs.

I don't know about you guys, but I am getting mighty tired of Day 1, or even Week 1, patches on games. What happened to shipping a finished product?

[Bakkster]

I don't know about you guys, but I am getting mighty tired of Day 1, or even Week 1, patches on games. What happened to shipping a finished product?

If an issue is discovered after the game has gone gold, there are three options:
1) Discard all the discs you have already produced, certify the new gold, and start disc production again.
2) Release a patch, certify the patch in parallel with disc production, and release the patch day one.
3) Ignore it and hope nobody notices.

Option 1 is expensive, both in time and money. Especially if final product has already started shipping. It also means you can't start production again until you have verified your code fix doesn't cause a new problem, which can delay the release date. I'm sure you don't want option 3, especially in the case like this, where it significantly affects gameplay. That's how you get a day 1 patch.

[Angel-Jin]

this might be a production error. the guitar at my local best buy has a busted strum bar as well. :/

[SmokaCola]

I don't know about you guys, but I am getting mighty tired of Day 1, or even Week 1, patches on games. What happened to shipping a finished product?

Ah, it's newer consoles. They have the ability to fix something that went wrong without spending a lot of cash. It just feels like games before were created perfect because we fired up our ps2/gamecube/xbox and never saw the "This game requires an update" message :p And the ones that never got an update on the new consoles, they have bugs. Believe me, they just never got tended to.

[Meancode]

Ah, it's newer consoles. They have the ability to fix something that went wrong without spending a lot of cash. It just feels like games before were created perfect because we fired up our ps2/gamecube/xbox and never saw the "This game requires an update" message :p And the ones that never got an update on the new consoles, they have bugs. Believe me, they just never got tended to.

I was actually referring to cartridge based games. The developers had to get it right the first time.

[Bakkster]

I was actually referring to cartridge based games. The developers had to get it right the first time.

Or just ignore it ever existed, like ET for the Atari. You don't want Rock Band to be another ET, do you? You'd need a lot of desert to bury all the peripherals.

[admanimal]

I was actually referring to cartridge based games. The developers had to get it right the first time.

It's true, but those games were also technically much simpler. Today's games are way more complicated plus I think there is more pressure to get the games out the door now that video games are such a huge commercial success (compared to cartridge days).

[mxmarks]

That ET story is one of the best videogame tales in all history. I encourage anyone who hasn't heard it to go look it up, because someone here re-telling it won't have nearly as much impact as going and actually finding out what went down in the desert...

[Meancode]

Or just ignore it ever existed, like ET for the Atari. You don't want Rock Band to be another ET, do you? You'd need a lot of desert to bury all the peripherals.

Well I am just ranting at this point. But I liked it a lot better when consoles didn't act like a PC. We are seeing way too many 360 games coming out with a Day 1 or Week 1 patch to fix things.

I mean GH3 didn't have quick play co-op on the disc for crying out loud. That is not making fixes, that is fixing lapses in judgment.

[Qweets]

Just be thankful systems these days have the ability to patch for games. I love it since my 360 is always hooked up to my internet it doesn't bother me.