Exclusive interview reveals the state of online BWT

[Feigned]

Can you guys believe that the game is launching in just a few hours? I know that everyone is chomping at the bit, waiting for their midnight launch (or for the FedEx guy to show up). I've got something that should keep you occupied for at least a short while.

You probably remember that I stopped by Harmonix and had the opportunity to ask a few questions. There were some delays with publishing it, partially so the answers could be triple-checked by HMX to make sure everything was 100% accurate. The other part involved some issues with the site on which it was to be posted. However, everything is up and running now, so head over and check it out.

I won't spoil the fun of reading it in its entirety (it's too long to post in here), but I was finally able to put to rest the questions of online BWT and whether or not Hyperspeed is in the game.

Enjoy! :cool:

http://gamerfront.net/2007/11/19/exclusive-interview-answers-your-burning-rock-band-questions/

[HellishFiend]

new material is always appreciated, thanks!

[Smokey_Lemon]

Great job Feigned!! I personally wasn't all that crazy about Hyperspeed myself, but to each his own. As far as BWT online....let's look at it this way, If GH2 had the online compatibilty that GH3 now has, what would have really been the strong selling points for it? Sometimes if you keep "one" of the coolest things people would want out of the game, you can have that "sure" thing for the next game. So looks like no patch for this. As far as difficulty goes and this goes out to all the people who play expert on GH, some people need to understand that it's not just hardcore guitar playing anymore, it's a group experience as well.

All in all, Good job at getting it done Feigned

[HeXcoda]

"We wanted to make sure we got Rock Band finished as a complete game and programming BTW Online is almost like programming an MMO. It?s something we?re definitely psyched about for a future game and we?re as pumped to play this as you are, so stay tuned."

...well, an MMO patches features in, so I guess that's confirmation it's a patch... but yet again, "Stay Tuned" rather than a date.

[AdamBomb629]

"We wanted to make sure we got Rock Band finished as a complete game and programming BTW Online is almost like programming an MMO. It?s something we?re definitely psyched about for a future game and we?re as pumped to play this as you are, so stay tuned."

...well, an MMO patches features in, so I guess that's confirmation it's a patch... but yet again, "Stay Tuned" rather than a date.

I didn't interpret that at all. THat to me says, SEE YOU IN ROCK BAND 2.

[Smokey_Lemon]

I didn't interpret that at all. THat to me says, SEE YOU IN ROCK BAND 2.

That's what I got too.

[Angry_Pirate]

"GF: Is there any plan to take Band World Tour online in the future?
HMX: We are really pumped about Band World Tour and we would have liked to see online play at launch. However, BWT is such a huge feature that we wanted to make sure that we did it right, which did mean sacrificing online play at launch. We wanted to make sure we got Rock Band finished as a complete game and programming BTW Online is almost like programming an MMO. It?s something we?re definitely psyched about for a future game and we?re as pumped to play this as you are, so stay tuned."

Yep totally getting that vibe.

[Catalytic]

Looks like I had better learn to sing and play an instrument at the same time ... this could get ugly.

[Krooked]

Was there not an article or interview where someone said there will "be no need for a rb2"? that they consider it a platform much rather than a game?

[tf5_bassist]

Good, no hyperspeed. Not that I'm against it, I've used it here and there to increase readability in songs, but, people who are all "Dude, put on hyperspeed! c'mon!" every single time you play=annoying...

[That_One_Dude]

So IGN just completely lied or where did they get their information :confused:

Oh well, wasn't planning on getting on launch and this solidifies my decision.

[jonfitzsimon]

Looks like I had better learn to sing and play an instrument at the same time ... this could get ugly.

lol, me too.

[Apples]

For the record, those RB boxes in the first screenshot of the interview.... empty. :(

[Swanton]

If they are not releasing a patch or something to play BWT online, then that is a major major major loss.

I understand that the most fun aspect of the game is getting people in the same room to play the game, but many of us don't live in a dorm and don't have access to three guys down the hall who have nothing better to do than come over to play for two hours.

Having the flexibility to meet up with friends online to play the MAIN portion of the game seemed like a no-brainer for release. What a brutal decision.

[Ultrace]

I understand that the most fun aspect of the game is getting people in the same room to play the game, but many of us don't live in a dorm and don't have access to three guys down the hall who have nothing better to do than come over to play for two hours.

Having the flexibility to meet up with friends online to play the MAIN portion of the game seemed like a no-brainer for release. What a brutal decision.
You're talking two hours? That should be easy, as along as there's someone within a reasonable distance of your home. I guarantee you, as long as they can use their hands or voice, once they've felt the game in action, you'd likely have more problem prying them away after just two hours. Now playing two hours every day? That might be a harder sell.

And though it's no replacement for BWT online, don't forget that you can still quickplay with people across the world to create that group feeling.

[Bakkster]

Good, no hyperspeed. Not that I'm against it, I've used it here and there to increase readability in songs, but, people who are all "Dude, put on hyperspeed! c'mon!" every single time you play=annoying...

Considering there aren't really songs that NEED hyperspeed to read (and thank God for that), I'm quite happy with this decision as well.


Having the flexibility to meet up with friends online to play the MAIN portion of the game seemed like a no-brainer for release. What a brutal decision.

Of course it would be awesome, but it's just not something you can wave your hands and make happen. It's not a trivial bit of coding like flipping a bit. It really would take a lot of effort.

Besides, even GH3 doesn't have online career. If it was too hard to implement in GH3, think of how much harder it would have been for RB.

[Thrashdragon]

The fact that they're already mentioning "a future game" (i.e. Rock Band 2) doesn't support the whole "we want RB to be a platform" statement, since unless they make some sort of major breakthrough in how console games work, none of Rock Band's content would be accessible in Rock Band 2.

Doesn't look like BWT Online is going to happen, but there's still enough ambiguity in that interview that a simple "yes" or "no" would be nice.

[Eman311]

I didn't interpret that at all. THat to me says, SEE YOU IN ROCK BAND 2.

Yep



It?s something we?re definitely psyched about for a future game and we?re as pumped to play this as you are, so stay tuned.


It isn't coming for Rock Band 1.

I agree with no hyperspeed, not really needed anyways IMO.

[SmokaCola]

Well I guess that clears that up, no BWT online for us until RB 2 :p however I'm not as upset as I thought I would be... That means we get to rock out twice, possibly with a cooler guitar, drums with double bass, microphone with a knife in it...Now it's just wishful thinking :(

And same with hyperspeed for me. I used it all the time on GH2 with every song, only because it was fun. As for RB... It would be kind of hard going from HS to normal when I got to get online, so not having it there completely rules out me wanting to try it.

[dragulaAC]

I've never even used hyperspeed. So all it does is make the fretboard scroll faster, thus allowing them to stretch the distance between each note on the screen? Basically just making it look less crowded than it is? And easier to see your notes?

[Bakkster]

I've never even used hyperspeed. So all it does is make the fretboard scroll faster, thus allowing them to stretch the distance between each note on the screen? Basically just making it look less crowded than it is? And easier to see your notes?

Yes, you see fewer notes, farther apart, scrolling faster. I've only used it a few times on charts like Freebird or Jordan. It turns what was a mass of colors into a somewhat readable notechart.

[SmokaCola]

Everyone says it's easier and cheating, it's really not. You may have the advantage of the note being spread but by the time you know what it is it's already went pass the timing window. I've played 5 songs on hyper, turned off the console for a few hours. Then played 5 songs on normal, did the math and it average out pretty even. So either it's just me, or everyone is whining about something that's pretty much useless to whine about :p

[SpaceShot]

I give them that it's probably not easy to code up the online band world tour. Multiplayer adversarial is actually probably a little easier. Just thinking out loud... each Xbox is responsible for how you are doing, only sending attacks and receiving attacks from the other box. In a cooperative BWT, some Xbox (or all of them) has to know how everyone is doing all the time... especially for activating Overdrive or hitting Unity Phrases.

It is a loss, but I don't think it is sneaky or marketing crap. It's probably just hard.

It does diminish the value of the game enough that I may not buy it, however. It's a sad reality but being a very busy person, my friends and I find it most convenient to play online. We also live on opposite sides of North America... so there's that.

$180 or so just to play a game by myself that I can't really play... tough call.

[HMXChrisCanfield]

I've never even used hyperspeed. So all it does is make the fretboard scroll faster, thus allowing them to stretch the distance between each note on the screen? Basically just making it look less crowded than it is? And easier to see your notes?

Yes. In Rock Band we just made expert scroll by a bit faster by default. That, combined with what we think are clearer gems should make speed-up cheats unnecessary.

I'd be interested to get feedback on the track speeds once you guys have had some time with the game.

[emkajeej]

could *not* care less.

[Eman311]

Yes. In Rock Band we just made expert scroll by a bit faster by default. That, combined with what we think are clearer gems should make speed-up cheats unnecessary.

I'd be interested to get feedback on the track speeds once you guys have had some time with the game.

From some time with the demo, I would say it's a very subtle difference. It sure felt like what I was previously used to.

What is the intention of a slightly faster scroll?

[Patch_]

Well it's a shame about online but it's not a deal breaker, just won't play a whole lot of BWT.
I will say this, I hope there isn't a RB2 where you have to buy a bundle yet again next year, I would hope it's just a disc or a disc and or some type of added instrument if they plan to go that way.

I really didn't think they were even thinking about RB2 yet.

[Bakkster]

What is the intention of a slightly faster scroll?

To put more space between the notes, especially fast notes that otherwise become scrunched and unreadable.

[jkilby99]

I didn't interpret that at all. THat to me says, SEE YOU IN ROCK BAND 2.

QFT... a very sad truth for someone whose nearest friends who would be interested in long sessions of Rock Band live 30 minutes away... not mention all of the friends I've made online who are spread throughout the country.

[milkman4591]

Well it's a shame about online but it's not a deal breaker, just won't play a whole lot of BWT.
I will say this, I hope there isn't a RB2 where you have to buy a bundle yet again next year, I would hope it's just a disc or a disc and or some type of added instrument if they plan to go that way.

I really didn't think they were even thinking about RB2 yet.

That's what I want. I want them to fix all the guitars between now and RB2 and release a double bass pedal. Maybe release a bass guitar peripheral (my vote is on F-404 body :D) Also, be able to DL all RB1, GH1, GH2, GH:80's tracks. Get to work :p

[SmokaCola]

From some time with the demo, I would say it's a very subtle difference. It sure felt like what I was previously used to.

What is the intention of a slightly faster scroll?

It's really just a mind thing, for me anyways. It makes the song go by at the time I feel it should go by and note feel like it's taking forever, plus it's so damn fun playing on hyperspeed. I can deal without it on RB though, from what i've seen the game scrolls a bit faster than GH2 and looks good.

[Ultrace]

QFT... a very sad truth for someone whose nearest friends who would be interested in long sessions of Rock Band live 30 minutes away... not mention all of the friends I've made online who are spread throughout the country.
30 minutes is hardly even a journey for a multi-hour session of Rock Band. :)

[wes_jett2008]

Hey cool,My ps2 question made it in there...thanks man.Although the answer scares me but I have faith.

[Bakkster]

Maybe release a bass guitar peripheral (my vote is on F-404 body :D)

It's either P-bass, J-bass, or nothing.

[espher]

So people can justify ~$100 for Guitar Hero, but not an extra $70 on top of it for Karaoke Hero, Drum Hero, and Bass Hero*, simply because BWT is not online?

I just find this amusing, especially considering how many people were all over this game before the mode was even announced.

[CableCarrier]

So people can justify ~$100 for Guitar Hero, but not an extra $70 on top of it for Karaoke Hero, Drum Hero, and Bass Hero*, simply because BWT is not online?

I just find this amusing, especially considering how many people were all over this game before the mode was even announced.

I think "QFT" is a stupid phrase but dear god does it apply here. You're basically getting three full music games with peripherals for less than the price of three stand-alone games. The Orange Box is the only thing that's a better deal than this.

[Reaper2099]

So people can justify ~$100 for Guitar Hero, but not an extra $70 on top of it for Karaoke Hero, Drum Hero, and Bass Hero*, simply because BWT is not online?

I just find this amusing, especially considering how many people were all over this game before the mode was even announced.

you know, i felt just like that though. Like I was shown a piece of heaven only to see it cast away from me. Oh well, it'll still be fun!!!

[jkilby99]

30 minutes is hardly even a journey for a multi-hour session of Rock Band. :)

True, but I'd rather not have to make the drive every day... it'd be a lot nicer to just do that on the weekends and play from the comfort of home during the week... sigh... makes me wish it had come out in college when all I'd have to do is leave the door open and people would randomly drop by and play, like I used to do with DDR.


So people can justify ~$100 for Guitar Hero, but not an extra $70 on top of it for Karaoke Hero, Drum Hero, and Bass Hero*, simply because BWT is not online?

I just find this amusing, especially considering how many people were all over this game before the mode was even announced.

It may be an issue for some, but I think a lot of people who wanted online BWT are still buying the game... it just would have been way better to have it. And if they aren't planning on patching it, even a crappy version (forcing the same players to always play together or something else that would make it identical to the offline version) would have been nice.

[Patch_]

So people can justify ~$100 for Guitar Hero, but not an extra $70 on top of it for Karaoke Hero, Drum Hero, and Bass Hero*, simply because BWT is not online?

I just find this amusing, especially considering how many people were all over this game before the mode was even announced.

I don't think people will not buy this game because of no online BWT. Sure, I wanted it and many other people did but it's not like this says we'll never get it, it's something we'll get later on and that's good enough.
Back when I was playing Guitar hero I really wanted online Vs mode, Rock band is giving us one hell of a offline co-op mode that's truly amazing looking, online it's giving us tug of war, score battle and co-op quick play, that's awesome enough right now, has leaderboards and all of that, so we're looking good for some fun online play.
I'm really looking forward to playing BWT with friends and with the holidays around playing with family will be funny and great.

Online BWT is something we'll get and if it's with RB2 then so be it, maybe we'll see some Band Vs Band action.

[SmokaCola]

Thinking about it... They could release some kind of DLC on XBL to add onto the game =\ I mean oblivion had all those extra maps and such and a lot of content... They could also make it free if they wanted to, I definitely wouldn't mind paying extra for it.

[HeXcoda]

...well, damn. My eyes totally skimmed over the "a future game" line, when "It's like an MMO" was there. In an MMO, you don't HAVE sequels (unless you're idiots, see EQ2 and AC2), you just add new features to your existing game periodically via patches.

So, again, we have contradictions, vagueness, etc. Argh. At this point though I'd definitely believe it being in RB2, since I was figuring there'd be an RB2 all along. iTunes and the iPod are a "platform" but you don't see Apple releasing one iPod and stopping, do you..?

[tf5_bassist]

Yes. In Rock Band we just made expert scroll by a bit faster by default. That, combined with what we think are clearer gems should make speed-up cheats unnecessary.

I'd be interested to get feedback on the track speeds once you guys have had some time with the game.

Just thought I'd throw this out there, but Chris, you are a severely valued member here on these forums, and we'd love to see you post here more often. You've got some great answers for us, we'd love to see you around more. :D

[Feigned]

For the record, those RB boxes in the first screenshot of the interview.... empty. :(

Yes, that was a huge disappointment. I mean they were sitting there relatively unguarded, right next to the door. It would have been so easy to just grab one and go. But alas, Apples is right, they were empty :(

[Swanton]

It just seems like the "soul" of the game is the BWT mode, which you cannot play without at least one other person. So, as a single-player experience, the game struggles (it would seem from the reviews and what the "meat" of the game is at the current time).

So, to get the most out of the game, you need to buy the bundle, and hopefully have another guitar or a friend with a guitar to go with a 4-person band. Why does no one mention this at all? Do we all just assume that everyone has GH already? I don't.

Being a bit on the older side (31), it's tough to get people over for some serious gametime because of work and family committments. However, getting together with people online is MUCH easier.

I'm still going to get the game, but I'm honestly pretty bummed about this development.

[HiroXHakuske]

This game is just the first step and already it offers so much... I can't wait until they take the next step and push the envelope

[mxmarks]

Although everyone at HMX is professional and knowledgeable, I really think that with these interviews, it's easy to mis-speak. Because they're just regular guys who love music. So whereas the execs at other companies are most likely instructed to give those canned anwsers you always get ("We cant comment", "Thats currently something I cant comment on", "Its too premature at this state to comment"...) HMX just anwsers openly, and honestly. So maybe to him "the next Rock Band" wasnt a FACT as much as it was a general comment. Heck, inside thier offices "the next rock band" may BE a patch.

We just don't know, and Im fine with that. I think the conflicting info is just due to everyone anwsering questions as best they can, and not really thinking of the intense scrutiny we're putting every word under. ;)

[Swanton]

It's a simple question though.

Will there or will there not be the ability to do online BWT with other friends?

The question is either:

1. Yes
2. No
3. Don't know

It seems the answer is anywhere from #1 to #3 depending on the quote and the context. My only deal (besides my own disappointment) is that the best portion of the game is the multiplayer experience. And the fact that you can't play that portion of the game in the most common multiplayer format is thoroughly unfun.

I play online with people waaaaaaayyyy more than I play with other people sitting next to me in a room. I would venture to guess that the same is true for most gamers out there.

[HeXcoda]

It's a simple question though.
Will there or will there not be the ability to do online BWT with other friends?

That's actually a pretty vague question. The better one to ask is:
"Will there or will there not be a patch to give Rock Band online BWT capability?"

Otherwise you give them the wiggle room of doing it in a sequel, or hell, doing it 3 years from now in Rock Band 2011.

But regardless, software development is not an exact science... I doubt they CAN give a simple answer. Not unless they risk being dead wrong, disappointing people who go "But you PROMISED!" and losing face. Better to be vague than wrong. Sucks for us, good for them.


My only deal (besides my own disappointment) is that the best portion of the game is the multiplayer experience. And the fact that you can't play that portion of the game in the most common multiplayer format is thoroughly unfun.

I play online with people waaaaaaayyyy more than I play with other people sitting next to me in a room. I would venture to guess that the same is true for most gamers out there.

Firm agreement. I've gotten shouted at on these boards for being vocal about my disappointment in the game's solo offerings and lack of BWT-esque gameplay outside multiplayer... but my opinion remains firm. This IS a gap in the game. The game's still great, but it's got a weak spot in its solo experience.

[seafisch]

I've gotten shouted at on these boards for being vocal about my disappointment in the game's solo offerings and lack of BWT-esque gameplay outside multiplayer... but my opinion remains firm. This IS a gap in the game. The game's still great, but it's got a weak spot in its solo experience.

I'm right there with you. What bothered me most about the shouting was the "what part of BAND World Tour sounds like single player?" comments. Quit arguing about semantics - if HMX had wanted to, they could have just called it World Tour, and there goes your argument. And if you want to play the "you don't get the band experience without other people in the room" card, then EA should require you to play Madden, NCAA Football, and every other team sport video game local multiplayer only - otherwise, you don't get the "team experience".

It was a development decision not to offer the World Tour mode as a single player option, I understand that - but I firmly believe that it was a bad one.

Yes, it is still a great game. Yes, I am still getting it. Yes, I will undoubtedly enjoy the hell out of it - by myself, online, and when I have friends/family over. Yes, I am flogging a deceased equine by raising the "no single player World Tour" issue. But when the most revolutionary part of your game is effectively off limits to a huge chunk of players, it's a bad development decision.

[Swanton]

Agreed.

The game reviewers and developers are surrounded by people so a quick jam session is rather easy to pull off. In the real world, it takes quite a bit of planning for those of us who are out of college or graduate school.

And I realize you can do a quickplay option over XBOX Live, but that mode is severely lacking compared to the unique RPG elements of the BWT.

I can only hope all the speculation about this will lead to a fix for Rock Band soon.

[King_Nuthin]

I think what troubles me most is that according to some reviews and other threads BWT also places difficulty restrictions based on the lowest difficulty used in order to advance. No big deal if you can find hard/expert players all over the globe to play with online, kind of sucky if your spouse and the majority of your friends are casual players who struggle on medium difficulty.

[BubbaC]

Yes. In Rock Band we just made expert scroll by a bit faster by default. That, combined with what we think are clearer gems should make speed-up cheats unnecessary.

I'd be interested to get feedback on the track speeds once you guys have had some time with the game.

well thats good to hear.. i guess. for me i used hyper speed alot not becuase of the scrunching. but because it had a better tempo.

alot of the time LINES on a songs charts in previous titles scrolled by to slow for me. i used those as a visual metronome. and when a song is 110+bpm and the lines are going by at about 60 a minute i get all messed up. because i my brain assumes its the tempo of the song. i have found it really hard to train my mind off that theory and as such just use hyper speed.
with drums that wont matter. since well.. the drum strikes are the tempo. but for guitar.. those damn lines scrolling slower than the tempo messes me up big time. and since they are the same distance apart in every song it's hard to tell what timing they represent.
or something like that for me. i just know when those lines scroll by faster it increases my timing ten fold. and it feels more natural to me. when i play real guitar i'm not thinking 15 notes ahead.. i'm thinking at tops 3 or 4. so in my head they come at me out of no where like with hyperspeed on.

if thats cheating.. oh well. i can still play on normal.. its just not natural to me to be blazing through a solo thats scrolling by incredibly slow.

[mohkilla]

so then Harmonix is planning on Ripping us off For money?:(

I mean WE buy RB for 184, with tax...... depending on where you live...then lets say..you spend 50 - 100 dollars in DLC, and then here comes RB2, with only a Bundle for sell for 184 again...... and all ur DLC will go straight down the crapper... so thats 100 dollars wasted..... does it seem fair? Just because you didnty want to add BWT online? some people dont have the time to be having people without lives over their houses and playing BWT for hours, alot of people will play on their own and would like to have BWT online...Harmonix, i know I KNOW you can make it happen..... it might be hard but dont f*ck us over for another RB Bundle later and leave RB in the dirt...i remember one of you guys said " Think of RB as a platform" Im hoping THis PLatform, wont just last less than a year.... I HOPE it lasts a few.... YOU have ALL the TIME in the world to add BWT online, we can wait patiently, just not until RB 2 comes out.... make it in a patch..... because i swear if you guys screw us over.... I wont ever buy another product of yours again!

HARMONIX you said you LISTEN to your FANS, and we the FANS ask of YOU just to put BWT online, PLEASE make it happen

[milkman4591]

so then Harmonix is planning on Ripping us off For money?:(

I mean WE buy RB for 184, with tax...... depending on where you live...then lets say..you spend 50 - 100 dollars in DLC, and then here comes RB2, with only a Bundle for sell for 184 again...... and all ur DLC will go straight down the crapper... so thats 100 dollars wasted..... does it seem fair? Just because you didnty want to add BWT online? some people dont have the time to be having people without lives over their houses and playing BWT for hours, alot of people will play on their own and would like to have BWT online...Harmonix, i know I KNOW you can make it happen..... it might be hard but dont f*ck us over for another RB Bundle later and leave RB in the dirt...i remember one of you guys said " Think of RB as a platform" Im hoping THis PLatform, wont just last less than a year.... I HOPE it lasts a few.... YOU have ALL the TIME in the world to add BWT online, we can wait patiently, just not until RB 2 comes out.... make it in a patch..... because i swear if you guys screw us over.... I wont ever buy another product of yours again!

HARMONIX you said you LISTEN to your FANS, and we the FANS ask of YOU just to put BWT online, PLEASE make it happen

QFT, and might I add another please?

[mohkilla]

QFT, and might I add another please?

sure thing! aswell as anyone else who feels the same way :)

[Police_Ataque]

so then Harmonix is planning on Ripping us off For money?:(

I mean WE buy RB for 184, with tax...... depending on where you live...then lets say..you spend 50 - 100 dollars in DLC, and then here comes RB2, with only a Bundle for sell for 184 again...... and all ur DLC will go straight down the crapper... so thats 100 dollars wasted..... does it seem fair? Just because you didnty want to add BWT online? some people dont have the time to be having people without lives over their houses and playing BWT for hours, alot of people will play on their own and would like to have BWT online...Harmonix, i know I KNOW you can make it happen..... it might be hard but dont f*ck us over for another RB Bundle later and leave RB in the dirt...i remember one of you guys said " Think of RB as a platform" Im hoping THis PLatform, wont just last less than a year.... I HOPE it lasts a few.... YOU have ALL the TIME in the world to add BWT online, we can wait patiently, just not until RB 2 comes out.... make it in a patch..... because i swear if you guys screw us over.... I wont ever buy another product of yours again!

HARMONIX you said you LISTEN to your FANS, and we the FANS ask of YOU just to put BWT online, PLEASE make it happen


I think the key concept they were trying to get across with the "platform" idea was that the peripherals would be lasting, and rather than constantly buying new peripherals every Rock Band installment, instead, we would simply buy another game disc.

Think about it this way: when you bought Guitar Hero, it came with a guitar peripheral. However, unless you chose to buy another peripheral for co-op, there was no need to buy another guitar for GH II or GH III. I think they're going to go with the same strategy, and simply upgrade the game disc with software updates, rather than force us to buy an entirely new set of peripherals. At most, I think we only have to worry about an extra peripheral per upgrade, and I still doubt that, to an extent. After all, besides keyboards, what else is widely used in rock music besides good old drums, vocals, guitar, and bass?

[mohkilla]

but see? what about RB DLC? it wont work on RB2

[ThePaska]

I'm glad there is no online BWT if it was going to be problematic. I'll look forward to either a patch or Rock Band 2, when we can finally go online with Bands. you can tell Harmonix really wanted it to happen as much as anyone, but they just couldn't get it perfect. It stinks, but in the end I'll just play BWT offline, which is fine.

[Koneesha]

So people can justify ~$100 for Guitar Hero, but not an extra $70 on top of it for Karaoke Hero, Drum Hero, and Bass Hero*, simply because BWT is not online?

I just find this amusing, especially considering how many people were all over this game before the mode was even announced.
i agree.:)

[Bakkster]

but see? what about RB DLC? it wont work on RB2

When did they say that? This is just more FUD on these forums. Makes me want to stop coming.

[AdamBomb629]

but see? what about RB DLC? it wont work on RB2

Nobody ever said that.

[nVizzle]

"HMX:No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We are trying to stay as true to the feeling of playing real music, and thus do not feel the need to include this option."


Can someone explain what this dumbass is even trying to say? Because it makes no sense to me. Sounds like a robot was responding to these questions.

[jmiscavish]

so then Harmonix is planning on Ripping us off For money?:(

I mean WE buy RB for 184, with tax...... depending on where you live...then lets say..you spend 50 - 100 dollars in DLC, and then here comes RB2, with only a Bundle for sell for 184 again...... and all ur DLC will go straight down the crapper... so thats 100 dollars wasted..... does it seem fair? Just because you didnty want to add BWT online? some people dont have the time to be having people without lives over their houses and playing BWT for hours, alot of people will play on their own and would like to have BWT online...Harmonix, i know I KNOW you can make it happen..... it might be hard but dont f*ck us over for another RB Bundle later and leave RB in the dirt...i remember one of you guys said " Think of RB as a platform" Im hoping THis PLatform, wont just last less than a year.... I HOPE it lasts a few.... YOU have ALL the TIME in the world to add BWT online, we can wait patiently, just not until RB 2 comes out.... make it in a patch..... because i swear if you guys screw us over.... I wont ever buy another product of yours again!

HARMONIX you said you LISTEN to your FANS, and we the FANS ask of YOU just to put BWT online, PLEASE make it happen
I agree whole-heartedly. It will be nearly impossible for me to play BWT with any people for any length of time. I have a few gaming friends, but they're not big into rhythm games, so I'm pretty much relying on online for this. I have a job and a wife (as many adult gamers do, I'm sure) so I can't devote hours for BWT waiting on buddies to come over. It'd be nice to knock out a few songs with online BWT every other night.

[Frederf]

BubbaC:

well thats good to hear.. i guess. for me i used hyper speed alot not becuase of the scrunching. but because it had a better tempo.

alot of the time LINES on a songs charts in previous titles scrolled by to slow for me. i used those as a visual metronome. and when a song is 110+bpm and the lines are going by at about 60 a minute i get all messed up. because i my brain assumes its the tempo of the song. i have found it really hard to train my mind off that theory and as such just use hyper speed.

I'm pretty sure that different note chart velocities have nothing to do with the temporal density of beat lines. If the song goes 110 bpm then the beat lines go by at 110 bpm too, hyperspeed or not.


"HMX:No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We are trying to stay as true to the feeling of playing real music, and thus do not feel the need to include this option."

Nvizzle:
Can someone explain what this dumbass is even trying to say? Because it makes no sense to me. Sounds like a robot was responding to these questions.

Yeah that didn't make a lick of sense when I read it too. Hyperspeed or not I don't care, but that reasoning is completely bassakwards.

[Bakkster]

Yeah that didn't make a lick of sense when I read it too. Hyperspeed or not I don't care, but that reasoning is completely bassakwards.

I think he means:
There are no cheat codes in music, so we'll fix the problem so nobody needs hyperspeed, then take it out.

[DarkSide]

"HMX:No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We are trying to stay as true to the feeling of playing real music, and thus do not feel the need to include this option."


Can someone explain what this dumbass is even trying to say? Because it makes no sense to me. Sounds like a robot was responding to these questions.

I have no idea. How adjusting the scroll speed of the notes reduces the feeling of playing real music is beyond me. It wouldn't even have to be entered like a cheat. It could simply be a menu option. Additionally, they could disable it for online play so no one if forced to play with it.

Give us hyperspeed please.

[mltdwn]

I have no idea. How adjusting the scroll speed of the notes reduces the feeling of playing real music is beyond me. It wouldn't even have to be entered like a cheat. It could simply be a menu option. Additionally, they could disable it for online play so no one if forced to play with it.

Give us hyperspeed please.

Correct me if I am wrong, but IIRC (I never used hyperspeed, but know many who did) hyperspeed also affected the window you had to hit the note, expanding it by a noticable amount. So instead of having to hit the note at the exact time you were supposed to you had a little leway. That sounds like getting away from playing real music and in real music you have to hit right on the note or you are wrong.

[DarkSide]

^I think your wrong bro. Hyperspeed only affected the speed, not the hit window.

[Feigned]

"HMX:No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We are trying to stay as true to the feeling of playing real music, and thus do not feel the need to include this option."


Can someone explain what this dumbass is even trying to say? Because it makes no sense to me. Sounds like a robot was responding to these questions.

First, John Drake is no dumbass, and I'll ask you kindly to refrain from verbally assaulting one of the Harmonix crew.

Second, he is also not a robot. These questions and answers came from a casual conversation Apathy and I had with him during our recent visit to the Harmonix Studio.

Third, while I can't speak for him, I believe there are a lot of ways this makes sense. For one, they have specifically designed the entire game to feel more like you're really playing music. Thus, you don't have the insane charts with notes squished together, therefore there is no need for hyperspeed. Also, very much like real music, the notes written on a piece of paper are a standard length apart, how often do you see someone requesting that they have their notes spaced out further in order to see them better? To me, that's the same as enabling hyperspeed, which spaces the notes out further and makes them come faster.

In the end, I'm happy with their decision. No one wants to be that one guy in the band that absolutely refuses (or has to) use hyperspeed, which then upsets the rest of the band.

[Vilius]

Thanks, Feigned. Wish there was gonna be WBT online, but what can you do. Luckily a lot of my friends like rythem games (just not as much as I do) so hopefully I can get a decent band together.
BTW, congratulations on becoming a mod.

[Feigned]

Thanks, Feigned. Wish there was gonna be WBT online, but what can you do. Luckily a lot of my friends like rythem games (just not as much as I do) so hopefully I can get a decent band together.
BTW, congratulations on becoming a mod.

Thanks, I think you're the first to notice. Or at least the first to say something. :cool:

[blinkhic]

I'm sorry but this no BWT Online stuff is crap. I can understand not at launch. But we live in a time where Levels, characters, guns, modes, etc. can all be PATCHED into games. There is no reason they cant get to work on a patch that would add this feature that many people are crying for. I love this game....hell its not a game its a experence, but to not patch in something that 75% of the community (the people that you are making games for) is crying for seems a bit off in my eyes. Hell if all this is just being mis-qouted, then be a little more clear on your answers, or say "no comment".

[Feigned]

I'm sorry but this no BWT Online stuff is crap. I can understand not at launch. But we live in a time where Levels, characters, guns, modes, etc. can all be PATCHED into games. There is no reason they cant get to work on a patch that would add this feature that many people are crying for. I love this game....hell its not a game its a experence, but to not patch in something that 75% of the community (the people that you are making games for) is crying for seems a bit off in my eyes. Hell if all this is just being mis-qouted, then be a little more clear on your answers, or say "no comment".

These are not misquotes, they came from John Drake. Would you really rather he say "no comment" rather than give you an explanation as to why the feature is not in the game?

[blinkhic]

These are not misquotes, they came from John Drake. Would you really rather he say "no comment" rather than give you an explanation as to why the feature is not in the game?

ok i'm not going to argue over how the interview went. But the bigger question, which apparentlly you missed or decided not to answer, is why not patch the game?

to the below post. Again, i am not disapointed with the game. I love it. I ALSO understand why it was not included on launch. I'm disapointed at the fact that no attempt is being made to patch in BWT online. the the fact that they are commenting on the fact that they want to release a game every year, but say "maybe in RB2". kinda contradicting.

[Ultrace]

These are not misquotes, they came from John Drake. Would you really rather he say "no comment" rather than give you an explanation as to why the feature is not in the game?
That's the problem with PR around here--perhaps on any given forum--people want developers and a company to comment on something, until the answer isn't what they would like to hear. Am I disappointed about it? Sure. But the remaining game is solid enough that I don't consider it that big of an issue.

[matrix2222]

I would just like to say that if we don't get BWT online in a patch in RB1 I will not be buying any more of their games. I will not be buying RB2. I can't remember details but I thought we were promised a bunch of DLC for GH2. We got like what 12 songs.

And considering in about 3 months I'm going to have spent just as much on the DLC as the game disc. I'm gonna go with they have enough money to spend the development time and get this feature in.

I don't want to spend more money on another game that I can't use content from RB1 and I don't want another set of instruments in my house. My house would start to look like a toy store.

I don't mean to rant, I just need Harmonix to know I love their games but I hate this decision.

[Bakkster]

ok i'm not going to argue over how the interview went. But the bigger question, which apparentlly you missed or decided not to answer, is why not patch the game?

Because it would be very difficult to code, and require a lot of developer time. My understanding of their stance is: we'd like to do it, we would patch it in, but it's too difficult to do right now.

[HellishFiend]

Because it would be very difficult to code, and require a lot of developer time. My understanding of their stance is: we'd like to do it, we would patch it in, but it's too difficult to do right now.

Speaking of developer time, I guess if I had to choose, I would pick more DLC over online BWT, but damn online BWT sure would be nice. Just think of how much it would improve the community. True friendships and togetherness would develop between online bandmates and decent percentages of people would surely meet IRL eventually. I just think it would be a beautiful thing.

[Sentouki]

I think if the demand is high enough theyll find a way. Seems pretty damn high right now so omg do it

[Shaderone]

Theoretically, if HMX gave us online BWT, we wouldn't be satisfied. We'd ask for some other improvement, knowing they can patch new things into the game. And, since they gave us online BWT, they'd HAVE to give us this new improvement. Then the cycle would continue, and continue, and continue. HMX wouldn't be able to sell RB II, since RB would have been gradually improved and improved!

We all wouldn't want that to happen, now, would we?

[Ultrace]

I can't remember details but I thought we were promised a bunch of DLC for GH2. We got like what 12 songs.

21 songs, actually. And it's worth noting that it was RecOctane who made the promises about DLC for GH2, not Harmonix. Harmonix = Developers for GH1/2/80s, RedOctane = Distributors/PR people for those games.

[Angry_Games]

Yes. In Rock Band we just made expert scroll by a bit faster by default. That, combined with what we think are clearer gems should make speed-up cheats unnecessary.

I'd be interested to get feedback on the track speeds once you guys have had some time with the game.

Glad you asked Chris!

I'm getting extremely frustrated just on hard that the rectangle and half-rectangle notes are not spaced far enough apart (they don't scroll fast enough). I've played about 20 songs on Hard and the same 20 on Expert and the same problem crops up: the new notes look stacked on top of each other when there are a lot of them (solo sections especially).

I'm ok with the timing of the notes, I dig it as it does feel more authentic than say GH3 which seems to have a wide window to hit the note (except I still can't beat Slayer or Metallica on Hard for some reason haha).

But the scroll speed is simply too slow. I can't tell half the time if the notes coming up are quick 1-2-3-4- 'strummed' notes or if some are part of chords. It's a very unfriendly system to me who has played Guitar Hero from GH1 up to present 3.

I KNOW this isn't GH. I'm not trying to say anything like that. I am saying though that after I showed the family Rock Band (with my gf playing drums the entire time...that sold every last one of them to buy this game...those with 360/PS3 that is lol), I put in GH3, and for the first few seconds it was disorienting because of how fast the notes scroll in Hard/Expert on GH3 (not to mention the round notes are a LOT easier to see...I just don't like the rectangular notes at all, I hope you either replace them or give us maybe an option as to which style of note we can use in future games, as well as ability to use hyperspeed or adjust the note scrolling speed).

But after those few seconds, I realized how much I like the speed of the notes as no matter how difficult the solo or any other parts, all of the notes are crystal clear and aren't jumbled all together.

We'll keep playing but it is getting very frustrating as to how jumbled piles of notes look, especially as the songs get harder and more intricate on the guitar parts.

I'd also like to mention that Score Hero has always maintained that Hyperspeed is not a cheat, and as far as I know, only people who have no clue what it really is think it is a cheat.

But I don't agree that the note gems are clearer in RB. They actually look less bright than the old GH round gems. I'm also a lot happier with the GH notes having a different 'center' when they can be HO/PO'd than I am with RB's "half rectangle" as that just ads to the jumbled problem when there's a zillion of them (and it seems worse when there are a bunch of half-rectangles combined with regular rectangles...).

Before anyone else says it's because I suck, it isn't because I suck. I know what I like and I love Rock Band except for this one issue (and my broken strum bar after the first 5 songs). I fear it is going to make the rest of the game too frustrating as the songs just get harder, which means more jumble, which means at some point we won't be able to get all the fans or money or whatever the point of the game is because none of us that have played guitar have been able to score well on any of the songs because of these notes (the people who have come over to play it so far, and all of them except a few family members are pretty experienced on all the previous GH games).

Again, this is NOT Guitar Hero, and I don't expect it to be. I don't want it to be. This is a much better game. But the note 'gems' as you call them...either space them out more or change the style, or better yet, both (or a combo, or an option to choose or code to enter).

I'm sure my opinion will not be majority, but you asked, and I'm glad to have spent the time to do it without flaming ;)

[blinkhic]

bump for BWT online

[Sentouki]

Theoretically, if HMX gave us online BWT, we wouldn't be satisfied. We'd ask for some other improvement, knowing they can patch new things into the game. And, since they gave us online BWT, they'd HAVE to give us this new improvement. Then the cycle would continue, and continue, and continue. HMX wouldn't be able to sell RB II, since RB would have been gradually improved and improved!

We all wouldn't want that to happen, now, would we?

Well in the world of PC games there are always patches coming out. Team A works on improvements through Patches. Team B works on new game. :D

[jmiscavish]

LOL, these people only make 1 game every three years (like bungie), so I'm sure they have plenty of time to patch stuff. They already did one that I have no idea what it did.

[toefer]

LOL, these people only make 1 game every three years (like bungie), so I'm sure they have plenty of time to patch stuff. They already did one that I have no idea what it did.

Wait, what?

[Bluvox]

Well in the world of PC games there are always patches coming out. Team A works on improvements through Patches. Team B works on new game. :D

In the world of PC games often times the patches are to remove cheats/hacks or to fix major bugs in the system. Most of the time new features are sold as an "expansion pack". This isn't 100% of the time a rule, but pretty often.

And here's the other issue - IF they did a "patch" for online BTW, it could be a 1-2gig "patch", and then folks would be screaming because their 20gig drive is already getting full of DLC and other stuff.

Rockband on it's own is a solid game, and online BWT would be awesome. Maybe they'll come out with a content update for it that costs money, or maybe they'll come out with a whole new game that you can get with it. Either way, enjoy what's there instead of having to gripe about what's missing.

[calseeor]

If they are not releasing a patch or something to play BWT online, then that is a major major major loss.

I understand that the most fun aspect of the game is getting people in the same room to play the game, but many of us don't live in a dorm and don't have access to three guys down the hall who have nothing better to do than come over to play for two hours.

Having the flexibility to meet up with friends online to play the MAIN portion of the game seemed like a no-brainer for release. What a brutal decision.

I agree 100% on this. All the advertisments lead me to believe I could start a a band with my friends and play from anywhere. I believe the way they marketed it made it very easy to misunderstand (especially since almost every game now-a-days has online "co-op" or campaign mode). Sure, you can play online with up to 4 people - you just can't play the world tour. My wife and I live hundreds of miles away from our friends and family and had looked forward to playing the full band campagin mode (BWT) with them. The lack of it is a huge blow to the replayability of the game, IMO. Other than that, the game is amazing, and I really hope they do consider patching in online BWT mode rather than waiting for Rock Band 2 (esepcailly since they are stating that Rock Band is more of a platform than a single game).

Still loving the game though. :)

[Hanover]

I keep thinking that maybe the logistics of implementing online BWT would be kinda tricky...especially where "who has what songs" is concerned. You would obviously only be able to play songs everyone has downloaded...and who's in your band...and figuring out who the band leader is.

yet...

Quick Play already does this. You see songs your online band mates dont have as greyed out. The songs everyone has are selectable.

Keeping track of who is in your band is simply making a group of friends in your friends list...and one person has the save data..and that person would be the leader. I don't see how this is a really big deal.

Then you have this....

"We are really pumped about Band World Tour and we would have liked to see online play at launch. However, BWT is such a huge feature that we wanted to make sure that we did it right, which did mean sacrificing online play at launch."

He uses the words "at launch." That pretty much tells me that it will be in RB sooner or later, but just not at launch.

I know whats going to happen. Expansion Pack...thats what is going to happen. They knew they could make money off of this feature...I dont mind paying for it. But thats what this really hints at.