mic latency

[ConoverBombJr]

I have a Samsung DLP and bought my copy of RB for my 40Gb PS3 last night. Every time I try to use the mic, it echos back about 1/4-second after I speak/sing. It's really throwing me off. I've tried to quiet the mic playback, but none of the vocal audio settings are allowing me to do that.

Anyone experiencing the same thing? Anyone know how to fix it?

[Spear_of_Destiny]

i have a samsung dlp too, now im concerned...

[SteppinRazor]

You're getting an echo of what you said?

I don't know, but you might want to keep the mic further away from your speakers -- that sounds like the kind of problem people had when they first put voice comm in Counter-Strike, people had their speakers up loud and their mic close to them, so when they spoke it went into the mic, back out the speakers, and into the mic again with a slight delay.

Try turning it down, and/or backing away from your speakers.

I don't know if that is your problem, but it is something you could try.

[Bakkster]

If your audio system has a latency in it, you will hear yourself late. There's no way to fix this in software, you need to reduce the audio latency in your A/V setup.

Edit: The alternative is to turn down your own vocals coming out of your speakers.

[HMXJohnlok]

Turn down the "Singer Volume" all the way - it's one of the buttons on your controller, I can't remember which (maybe triangle?).

[coryisbored]

i have a 42" samsung dlp tv also and im experiencing the same thing. there is an annoying like 1/2 second lag which makes it hard to use the mic.. is this with all ps3 versions or just our tv's??

[Nilsen581]

hopefully its a PS3 thing...

I have 56" DLP and a 360.

[Radjago]

I have an LCD TV and a 360 and I'm getting the same thing. It's not output latency where it plays back later due to audio processing. It's input latency where the console isn't processing and recognizing the vocals in time with the music.

[Bakkster]

It could also be visual latency, where the console correctly scores your vocal performance, but the arrow seems behind, due to the latency.

[Radjago]

No, it's not that either. Here's a timeline.


B-- b-- B b
|......|......|......|......|
0 250 500 750 1000 Time in ms

B = time when I sing into the mic.
b = time when the game recognizes my voice and matches the arrow to the pitch and scores accordingly.

So in order to match up with the game, I have to sing notes ~250ms before they actually hit the line. All the other parts match up fine except the vocals.

[Bakkster]

No, it's not that either. Here's a timeline.


B-- b-- B b
|......|......|......|......|
0 250 500 750 1000 Time in ms

B = time when I sing into the mic.
b = time when the game recognizes my voice and matches the arrow to the pitch and scores accordingly.

So in order to match up with the game, I have to sing notes ~250ms before they actually hit the line. All the other parts match up fine except the vocals.

I'm not sure of an easy way to verify if this is an input lag, or a video lag. You would need to find a way to verify that starting 250ms early gave you a better score than being on time with what you are seeing. Maybe try Sabotage, which is entirely based on rhythm: if you fail out with almost no points, it is likely input lag.

It's possible that it takes 250ms (seems long!) for the arrow to show up on the screen, even though the mic input arrived on time and is being scored properly. This would also cause the arrow to indicate where you were singing 250ms ago.

Also, is the mic connected through the hub? Try connecting it directly to the console, as this could be the cause of input lag. Hope you fix it!

[toelessfoot]

In order to get rid of the latency you'll have to use a seperate sound system that has no latency. The TV is causing the problem and no amount of calibration in the game can fix that because it's you that's creating the sound and the game can't sing for you to fix the lag. Also, if there's lag on the vocal monitoring than there will also be lag with the drums in the fills sections, so best look into a lagfree sound solution.

If you can't fix the sound latency, then you have to turn down the volume of your vocals and not look at the arrow on the screen because it'll always react late even if you're singing on time (because of your tv). If you are however singing ontime and in key than you'll get the points.

This is assuming that there is not input lag though, heh.

[mltdwn]

Have you also gone in and done the manual A/V lag calibration? That might fix it.

[Radjago]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am getting better scores when I sing ahead. The mic is hooked directly into a USB port on the front of the console. I'll have to try hooking my system up to an old SDTV and a VGA monitor and see if that affects it. I have Dolby Digital surround enabled in the options and have my console hooked up to my AV receiver for sound. I'll have to toggle that option and see if that makes a difference as well. I never get lag on Guitar Hero or any other game from my receiver.

[Bakkster]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am getting better scores when I sing ahead. The mic is hooked directly into a USB port on the front of the console. I'll have to try hooking my system up to an old SDTV and a VGA monitor and see if that affects it.

Let us know if an SDTV or any other instruments have the same problem.

[toelessfoot]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am getting better scores when I sing ahead. The mic is hooked directly into a USB port on the front of the console. I'll have to try hooking my system up to an old SDTV and a VGA monitor and see if that affects it. I have Dolby Digital surround enabled in the options and have my console hooked up to my AV receiver for sound. I'll have to toggle that option and see if that makes a difference as well. I never get lag on Guitar Hero or any other game from my receiver.

Ok, have you done the ingame calibration for A/V and turned off mic volume? If you have and the other instruments are working ok then that would mean that it's input lag, which means we'll all have it.

[ConoverBombJr]

When I was 2-3" from the mic, I was getting a 1/4-second delay. Now when I stay 6-8" from the mic, I get a soft 1/16-second delay that sounds more like just a little sustain on the mic. Point is, it helps to stay away from the mic. It'll be weird cuz I'm used to almost kissing the mic when I'm doing karaoke.

[Mistersh0w]

I'm experiencing this problem as well... Is there a solution? I also have a DLP tv...

[Bakkster]

When I was 2-3" from the mic, I was getting a 1/4-second delay. Now when I stay 6-8" from the mic, I get a soft 1/16-second delay that sounds more like just a little sustain on the mic. Point is, it helps to stay away from the mic. It'll be weird cuz I'm used to almost kissing the mic when I'm doing karaoke.

This sounds more like a perceived change in delay, not an actual change. I don't doubt there is a delay, but I doubt it changes based on how close you are to the mic. There is just no process I can think of that would cause a delay like this.

[Mistersh0w]

Ok so my receiver has no latency change options so I tinkered around a bit, and no fix... I also decided to turn off the receiver, and try out the audio through the speakers on my tv... The lag issue still remained, and it was the same. What does this mean? Does it mean it IS an in game issue and NOT a receiver issue?

[Bakkster]

Ok so my receiver has no latency change options so I tinkered around a bit, and no fix... I also decided to turn off the receiver, and try out the audio through the speakers on my tv... The lag issue still remained, and it was the same. What does this mean? Does it mean it IS an in game issue and NOT a receiver issue?

It means there is latency in your TV's audio decoder. The game should be receiving the audio on time, and outputting it on time as well. Your TV is likely delaying in decoding the signal (are you using HDMI?) causing the A/V latency. The only ways to fix this kind of problem are:
Use a different TV
Pull the audio out of the box BEFORE it hits your TV, and ensure the receiver does not have a latency
Turn the mic output volume all the way down

Tell us what works!

[piratepwnsninja]

I am having the exact same issue oddly enough. I am not running through my TV's a/v inputs and am running through my a/v reciever (optical audio in) and there is honestly like a 1/5th of a second delay from when I actually NEED to start singing versus when the audio track actually starts sining. Now the audio track actually lines up with the vocal that is being sung by the original singer. So, yes, I could turn down the vocal track, but it still doesn't fix the issue that the backing of the instruments is still off and it sounds really stupid. Messed around with the TV Calibration options and they seemed to do nothing for this issue. This really sucks, because singing was the part I was most looking forward to.

[Bakkster]

I am having the exact same issue oddly enough. I am not running through my TV's a/v inputs and am running through my a/v reciever (optical audio in) and there is honestly like a 1/5th of a second delay from when I actually NEED to start singing versus when the audio track actually starts sining. Now the audio track actually lines up with the vocal that is being sung by the original singer. So, yes, I could turn down the vocal track, but it still doesn't fix the issue that the backing of the instruments is still off and it sounds really stupid.

Does the game actually score you wrong when you have turned down the mic output all the way? I think you might be tricking yourself into thinking so.

And as a general hint: analog has (generally) no lag. The more digital connections and junctions you add, the more likely a signal is going to be delayed. Especially in the audio path, attempt to go analog the entire way. Otherwise, in rhythm game, you will find out just how much lag your setup has, and you won't like it.

[dmbmatrix]

I have this issue as well. I run my PS3 to a Bose 3-2-1 using an optical cable. My instruments are all set to 8ms lag time and they work fine. I scored 95% on medium singing, but it sounded like crap due to the delay. Are there people that are NOT expriencing any lag on the audio? it's very noticeable when you talk into the mic right before a song starts.

[piratepwnsninja]

Does the game actually score you wrong when you have turned down the mic output all the way? I think you might be tricking yourself into thinking so.

And as a general hint: analog has (generally) no lag. The more digital connections and junctions you add, the more likely a signal is going to be delayed. Especially in the audio path, attempt to go analog the entire way. Otherwise, in rhythm game, you will find out just how much lag your setup has, and you won't like it.



Nah, it scores wrong with the mic output all the way down too.

[vulgarmessiah]

same damn issue on my end. I have a PS3 version with a samsung lcd and a philips home theater system. I tried the calibrating and it doesn't help resolve the mic issue at all. I tried using my tv speakers only and the problem remained.

The guitar and drums work great...but not having the mic workng properly is tremendously annoying and I'm beginning to believe its an issue with the game itself.


:mad:

[piratepwnsninja]

same damn issue on my end. I have a PS3 version with a samsung lcd and a philips home theater system. I tried the calibrating and it doesn't help resolve the mic issue at all. I tried using my tv speakers only and the problem remained.

The guitar and drums work great...but not having the mic workng properly is tremendously annoying and I'm beginning to believe its an issue with the game itself.


:mad:

Same here. Audio lag due to using digital IS NOT an acceptable reason or excuse for a console that has 5.1 output. It is ridiculous and if this is not something that can be fixed I will be sorely disappointed.

[vidwiz]

Got this figured out guys. As alluded to earlier, its the 5.1 dolby digital setting. when enabled, adds significant lag, you need to disable that option which I know, stinks. there is still very small lag but is much more usable. I am going to try analog connections and see if that gets rid of it completely but haven't had a chance to do so yet.

[Bakkster]

Nah, it scores wrong with the mic output all the way down too.

How did you verify the timing for scoring is wrong? Only way I could think of was with Sabotage, but you could have a better method.


Same here. Audio lag due to using digital IS NOT an acceptable reason or excuse for a console that has 5.1 output. It is ridiculous and if this is not something that can be fixed I will be sorely disappointed.

The digital lag may not be due to the console or game. The digital lag I was alluding to is from the conversion from digital signals in your audio cable to sound in your speakers. Digital technologies have a slight inherent lag, which for some receivers might be lag. It's tough, but the goal is to isolate each piece of your setup to try and determine where the lag originates, so you can fix that part.

[piratepwnsninja]

Let us know what results you come up with asap. Thanks!

Please do. :)

[piratepwnsninja]

How did you verify the timing for scoring is wrong? Only way I could think of was with Sabotage, but you could have a better method.

With the mic output all the way down, I still had to start singing early in order for the pitch arrow to come up "on time" according to what was being shown on screen. Even if I turn both the vocal track and the mic output all the way down and just sing along with the music being played, I have to sing offbeat from the track in order to be successful. I am capable of singer, so I know that isn't the issue. There really is just timing off somewhere.




The digital lag may not be due to the console or game. The digital lag I was alluding to is from the conversion from digital signals in your audio cable to sound in your speakers. Digital technologies have a slight inherent lag, which for some receivers might be lag. It's tough, but the goal is to isolate each piece of your setup to try and determine where the lag originates, so you can fix that part.


Well I do have the optical audio being routed through a switch before going into the receiver, so I'll try just running straight into the receiver in a bit after my son goes to bed. That or I'll play more Mass Effect. :p

[Mistersh0w]

Got this figured out guys. As alluded to earlier, its the 5.1 dolby digital setting. when enabled, adds significant lag, you need to disable that option which I know, stinks. there is still very small lag but is much more usable. I am going to try analog connections and see if that gets rid of it completely but haven't had a chance to do so yet.

Let us know what results you come up with asap. Thanks!

[piratepwnsninja]

Wow this thread fell down quickly. This is a pretty major issue IMO.

[piratepwnsninja]

Okay, so I ran my optical audio cable directly into the receiver, so I eliminated the switch.

Didn't fix the problem.

I turned off Dolby Digital in the options.

Didn't fix the problem.

:(

[vidwiz]

Let us know what results you come up with asap. Thanks!

Tried analog outs. Not any better to my ear, if anything slightly more lag than non dolby digital. Lots of options under dig audio out on ps3 like dts, aac, pcm... didn't try them, didn't think would help.

Anyone using hdmi audio? results?

[bflorin]

using optical out to receiver, w/ DD. Seems to me that the mic was close to on time for registering, but the actual audio out for mic is a second off which kills everything. Turning mic volume off makes it easier, but whats the point if you can't hear yourself?

[batsu336]

Judging by the posts about the 5.1 surround sound, I also think that is the key. Your surround sound must be having difficulty interpreting where the audio signal should be sent to (front or rear, frontorrearfrontorrrear...oh crap now I'm late). Turn off your surround sound, or maybe try using just 2 channels instead of the full 5.1, if you have that option on your system. That way you till have stereo sound, just not the added division of the audio signal.

Does this solve anything for you?

[Radjago]

Okay, I think I isolated the problem. It's the digital audio decoder in my TV.

360 --> HDMI --> TV --> Speakers = lag
360 --> HDMI --> TV --> Optical Out --> Receiver = lag
360 --> HDMI --> TV --> Stereo OUt --> Receiver = lag

360 --> Optical Out --> Receiver = significantly less lag
360 --> Stereo Out --> Receiver = signifcantly less lag

I wish I had an HDMI receiver to test with, but other people don't seem to be having issues with those.

Neither the Dolby Digital setting in the game, nor the dashboard settings seemed to affect it noticeably.

Also, the headset is a slight bit laggier than the wired mic.

[vulgarmessiah]

im still pissed about this!!!

[Bakkster]

Anyone using hdmi audio? results?

I'm using HDMI audio straight to a computer monitor. I have no issues.

If analog outputs didn't work, and removing devices between the console and receiver didn't work, the next thing to try is to use a different audio output. Try swapping out the receiver with a different (ideally simpler) audio system.

[Mistersh0w]

I'm using HDMI audio straight to a computer monitor. I have no issues.

If analog outputs didn't work, and removing devices between the console and receiver didn't work, the next thing to try is to use a different audio output. Try swapping out the receiver with a different (ideally simpler) audio system.

Would a crappy receiver eliminate the audio lag problem? I have a fairly nice receiver, and a kind of crappy sony home theater receiver/dvd play thing that I could test out...

[Mistersh0w]

This, is so far the only problem i've had with RB... But it's a biggie. Conceivably, I'm going to have to buy a better receiver just to get the mic functionality to work!? That's ridiculous... I see that HMX peeps respond to threads here and there, it would be nice to get an official word on this problem... As it stands, i'm having a big party Friday, and if this mic problem persists, it's gonna be a quiet party....

[SteppinRazor]

Would a crappy receiver eliminate the audio lag problem? I have a fairly nice receiver, and a kind of crappy sony home theater receiver/dvd play thing that I could test out...

No, I think what the other guy meant was no reciever or theater style set-up at all. Like, take the analog outs and plug them into a basic stereo with an "Aux" setting so there is no processing or anything between the back of your console and the speakers, just the amp in the stereo.

But I do not really know, you could try it like that maybe.

[Mistersh0w]

No, I think what the other guy meant was no reciever or theater style set-up at all. Like, take the analog outs and plug them into a basic stereo with an "Aux" setting so there is no processing or anything between the back of your console and the speakers, just the amp in the stereo.

But I do not really know, you could try it like that maybe.

So let's say that works. Does that mean that for the mic to function properly, I would either need to continue using RB with a crappy as hell audio setup, or I would need to purchase a higher end receiver with latency adjustment capabilities? Either option sucks BIG TIME...

[Bakkster]

Would a crappy receiver eliminate the audio lag problem? I have a fairly nice receiver, and a kind of crappy sony home theater receiver/dvd play thing that I could test out...

A simpler audio system is probably what you need. I'm assuming, based on the latency you get, that your receiver does a lot of digital processing (EQ, audio shaping, surround tricks, etc) which is adding the latency. The problem is that a lot of stereo system makers don't expect you to notice 50ms, so they allow it. Honestly, it's pretty hard to notice even 200ms of lag when watching football. With something like Rock Band, the audio timing is very important to the experience, which the home theater makers didn't take into account when they designed their receivers.

Give the Sony receiver a try. Turn off Dolby and any other options that you can. Try to stay analog the whole way. If all else fails, use the work-around for turning down the mic output so that you can still enjoy that portion of the game. Good luck, hope your party works out!

[Mistersh0w]

...If all else fails, use the work-around for turning down the mic output so that you can still enjoy that portion of the game. Good luck, hope your party works out!

The work around you mention is not really an option. I know it still "works", but the problem is that it's not accurate. I'm in several real bands, and most of the people coming over are musicians, the mic problem will be very apparent to everyone there. I know that this issue is due to a lot of different things, including the fact that the manufacturers of receivers don't take games like this into account when making them, but this is a pretty big problem, and i'm starting to believe that there was VERY LITTLE QA for RB at HMX... And if there was extensive QA testing, it was for gameplay, and not specific consumer friendly hardware. Once again this ALL could be justified with FOREWARNING and RESEARCH from HMX on what WE need to do as consumers to PREPARE for the experience of playing this game. Obviously everyone has a different home theater setup, and they should have taken EVERYTHING into account in regards to said consumer setups... At this point it's completely unacceptable for them to overlook such an important issue... I'm almost furious at the amount of money paid for a product that is essentially defected, and NOT READY for consumer usage.

[Mistersh0w]

Is there anyone I can call about this matter? "Trying things out" is starting to get frustrating, I would like an OFFICIAL word on what the solution is... My hard earned and SPENT $170 dollars should justify a quick response...

[Mistersh0w]

bump... I'm curious about why other peeps aren't more frantic about this problem

[dborden]

I have a PS3 with HDMI going to a high end denon 2807 HDMI reciever that does HDMI switching/passthrough. I have one HDMI cable going from my reciever then to my TV.

This is what I am noticing.

I noticed immediately that there was a delay from the time my wife sung to when I could hear it out of the speakers. This created an echo effect because of the soundtrack vocals playing and then a 1/5 second(guess) delay before my wife's voice was output.

She was on easy mode and was scoring 90% or better. Not sure if that make it really easy even if you aren't singing on time.

This was really annoying through. I would really love for vocals sung by people to be played in sync with the game and music. For me this is a game breaker problem.

Swapping out equipment and cables is not an option for me. I have very high end audio equipment and speakers and I am not going backwards.

[hpman247]

same problems people. This is the games' handeling of it. I have three 7.1 setups and have tried on just my tv speakers and it is the same on all. I have no issues at all with guitar or drums.

[Bakkster]

The work around you mention is not really an option. I know it still "works", but the problem is that it's not accurate. I'm in several real bands, and most of the people coming over are musicians, the mic problem will be very apparent to everyone there. I know that this issue is due to a lot of different things, including the fact that the manufacturers of receivers don't take games like this into account when making them, but this is a pretty big problem, and i'm starting to believe that there was VERY LITTLE QA for RB at HMX... And if there was extensive QA testing, it was for gameplay, and not specific consumer friendly hardware. Once again this ALL could be justified with FOREWARNING and RESEARCH from HMX on what WE need to do as consumers to PREPARE for the experience of playing this game. Obviously everyone has a different home theater setup, and they should have taken EVERYTHING into account in regards to said consumer setups... At this point it's completely unacceptable for them to overlook such an important issue... I'm almost furious at the amount of money paid for a product that is essentially defected, and NOT READY for consumer usage.

As a musician, you'll appreciate the beauty of a simple tube amplifier for music. The same goes for analog audio in your home theater.

I hope you'll also agree that this is not HMX's fault. They've done as much as they possibly could to fix this issue, with pinpoint lag calibration. Unfortunately, short of time travel, there is no way to remove lag from mic output or free-form drumming. HMX did significant research into how various setups cause lag, that is how they got their preset lag calibration settings.

However, the environment their game is used in is ultimately the responsibility of the consumer. If you had a PA system that induced an audio delay, would you blame the PA maker, or the maker of your microphone?

I really hope you can find a solution to your issue, but there is no way to fix it in software.

[Mistersh0w]

As a musician, you'll appreciate the beauty of a simple tube amplifier for music. The same goes for analog audio in your home theater.

You're suggesting that I purchase a tube amplifier for my audio setup? This would solve the audio lag problem?



I hope you'll also agree that this is not HMX's fault. They've done as much as they possibly could to fix this issue, with pinpoint lag calibration. Unfortunately, short of time travel, there is no way to remove lag from mic output or free-form drumming. HMX did significant research into how various setups cause lag, that is how they got their preset lag calibration settings.

Look, I like HMX. RB is an amazing game, that i'm sure contains an innumerable amount of intricacies, and utilizes the most advanced home gaming technology we've ever seen! With that said, it would be hard to understand exactly WHY this problem is happening, and WHO to really "blame" it on. At this point, I just want the game to WORK! PERHAPS a a simple lag configuration tool for INDIVIDUAL ASPECTS of game play would have been useful!

[evilzom]

it has NOTHING to do with the in game A/V calibration.... in game AV calibration is a calibration between video and audio... this is not what you are dealing with.. you are dealing with a delay from the time you speak into the mic to when it comes out of the speakers... that has nothing to do with the game delaying the audio to match the video...

this isnt an Audio/Video problem.. its strictly audio processing. its being caused by whatever device is processing the audio... its not doing it with 0 latency... so the sound comes out a bit late... same with the drum fills...

which is why the tube amp would work because its taking the raw analog and pushing it right thru... your hd tv or hi fi reciever takes that analog signal and them quickly processes it into a digital output... that causes a minor delay..

this problem is 100% out of harmonix and rockband's hands... its your audio equipment.

im having the same issue... a good way to test this is hook your xbox's red/white RCAs cables to a very very cheap stereo system that is far below any type of surround sound system and you will hear no lag at all...

[Bakkster]

You're suggesting that I purchase a tube amplifier for my audio setup? This would solve the audio lag problem?

Look, I like HMX. RB is an amazing game, that i'm sure contains an innumerable amount of intricacies, and utilizes the most advanced home gaming technology we've ever seen! With that said, it would be hard to understand exactly WHY this problem is happening, and WHO to really "blame" it on. At this point, I just want the game to WORK! PERHAPS a a simple lag configuration tool for INDIVIDUAL ASPECTS of game play would have been useful!

I'm not suggesting a tube amplifier, just suggesting that simpler can be better.

Let me try another analogy: Think of Rock Band as an electric guitar, and your setup as the Front of House (FoH) mixer and speakers. Your monitors are are coming from the FoH.

Now assume that the FoH is inducing a 200ms lag in your audio. When you play a note, your guitar works the way it should, as does your amplifier. Unfortunately, the FoH delay causes you to hear your note 200ms later. Your guitar works fine, but the FoH is causing problems. There is no way for your guitar to make sound 200ms before you play it, which is what would be needed to fix the problem. Do you ditch your guitar because it can't do this, or do you get a new FoH system that doesn't induce a 200ms delay?

[evilzom]

bump... I'm curious about why other peeps aren't more frantic about this problem

the only people that are going to be bothered by this are the ones that are picky enough or have enough attention to detail to notice... the masses wont even notice the subpar performance...

Im a drummer so I notice like crazy when the open fill sections are nothing but my pad strikes coming in with a delay..

you're a musician as weill.. this is why you notice it...

[DanTheMan39]

Good analogy, and I think that's exactly what this issue is from my experience.

IMHO, the input of the audio from the mic/drums to the game is spot on -- I score perfect by singing the notes right on time when I see/hear them. The only delay that I hear, is in my own voice coming back out of the speakers - and it is a very small delay at that.

I am sure that the XBOX plays the game sounds 1/4 of a second or 1/8 of a second before you are hearing them (based on your calibration settings) to account for that delay so that you see them just as the note crosses the right spot on the screen.

Your voice going into the system is real-time, and therefore the time that it takes for the XBOX to interperet the digital signal coming in from the USB (all-digital) Mic, and spit it back out, and then for your audio playback device (TV/Amp, etc.) to interperet it and finally play it through your speakers will cause the delay in what you are hearing back.




I'm not suggesting a tube amplifier, just suggesting that simpler can be better.

Let me try another analogy: Think of Rock Band as an electric guitar, and your setup as the Front of House (FoH) mixer and speakers. Your monitors are are coming from the FoH.

Now assume that the FoH is inducing a 200ms lag in your audio. When you play a note, your guitar works the way it should, as does your amplifier. Unfortunately, the FoH delay causes you to hear your note 200ms later. Your guitar works fine, but the FoH is causing problems. There is no way for your guitar to make sound 200ms before you play it, which is what would be needed to fix the problem. Do you ditch your guitar because it can't do this, or do you get a new FoH system that doesn't induce a 200ms delay?

[Bakkster]

Your voice going into the system is real-time, and therefore the time that it takes for the XBOX to interperet the digital signal coming in from the USB (all-digital) Mic, and spit it back out, and then for your audio playback device (TV/Amp, etc.) to interperet it and finally play it through your speakers will cause the delay in what you are hearing back.

And this is exactly why most musicians prefer an all-analog live setup to digital.

[Mistersh0w]

Ok so, in order to play the game the way it was intended, to make the game "work", I need to buy an analog audio system SPECIFICALLY for use with RB? So, why didn't the game come with an amplifier that would work with the game? Not that I actually expect that, i'm just saying... There's no way i'm putting more cash in, or DOWNgrading my audio system for the game to work properly! Are there any other options?! Plus, where's the disclaimer that says "Thank you for purchasing Rock Band! This game may not work properly with your home theater system! Good luck with a solution!"

[Bakkster]

No, I'm saying you are just unlucky enough to have purchased an audio receiver which induces a noticeable latency in your audio. No matter how expensive or high fidelity the receiver is, the bottom line is that it is inducing a problem you can not otherwise fix.

Have you contacted the maker of your receiver asking them if there is a way to bypass the latency-inducing circuitry of the receiver?

[Mistersh0w]

No, I'm saying you are just unlucky enough to have purchased an audio receiver which induces a noticeable latency in your audio. No matter how expensive or high fidelity the receiver is, the bottom line is that it is inducing a problem you can not otherwise fix.

Have you contacted the maker of your receiver asking them if there is a way to bypass the latency-inducing circuitry of the receiver?

I haven't, but that's a good idea... Though, these frustrating "solutions" are going to get old quick... I love this game so much, and i'm going to have to fork out more money to make it work right. Which is NOT pro-consumer at all..

[Bakkster]

I haven't, but that's a good idea... Though, these frustrating "solutions" are going to get old quick... I love this game so much, and i'm going to have to fork out more money to make it work right. Which is NOT pro-consumer at all..

Let me know what you find out. Hope you find a solution.

[Mistersh0w]

Let me know what you find out. Hope you find a solution.

Me too man... I'm a singer, so this is the most important part of the game for me. Do you perhaps know of some decent receivers for cheap that would have the latency adjust options?

[Bakkster]

Me too man... I'm a singer, so this is the most important part of the game for me. Do you perhaps know of some decent receivers for cheap that would have the latency adjust options?

Right now I'm running through computer speakers. I would simply ask the maker what the latency on the inputs is. If they can't tell you, don't bother buying it.

[MustangMatt]

I've got some audio delay. Here's my setup:

PS3 outputs to my Sony KDS60A3000 DLP through HDMI and it outputs to my stereo through optical.

Both the TV speakers and the receiver speakers have the same delay. So either the PS3 is introducing the delay or the TV is.

Maybe I'll try optical out of the PS3 to the receiver later and see if it changes anything.

[piratepwnsninja]

Even if it is out of HMX's hands, some sort of disclaimer would have been nice. At least I would have been less excited about the aspect of the game I was most excited about, but whatever. Just going to have to deal with it I guess as they have shown no interest in even saying anything in this thread. Nice way to thank people that just bought your $170 game.

[Bakkster]

Both the TV speakers and the receiver speakers have the same delay. So either the PS3 is introducing the delay or the TV is.

Maybe I'll try optical out of the PS3 to the receiver later and see if it changes anything.

I'm willing to bet it's the TV. Switch the optical direct from PS3 to receiver and see if that helps.

[Mistersh0w]

Even if it is out of HMX's hands, some sort of disclaimer would have been nice. At least I would have been less excited about the aspect of the game I was most excited about, but whatever. Just going to have to deal with it I guess as they have shown no interest in even saying anything in this thread. Nice way to thank people that just bought your $170 game.

I feel the same way... A disclaimer would have been ideal. Instead we're left with shuffling through annoying and frustrating alternatives to our normal audio setups... Complete bull**** if you ask me...

[Mistersh0w]

Well I just got off the phone with a nice Kenwood lady, and she told me my particular model of receiver has a latency adjustment feature of sorts. This is what the manual says:

In Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II, Dolby
Pro Logic or Dolby Virtual mode, adjusting
delay times of the speakers

-In case of Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II or Dolby
Pro Logic mode, when the distances from the prime
listening position to front left, center, front right, rear
left and rear right speakers are same, the basic settings
are as follows according to the surround modes;
- In the Dolby Digital mode,
Center delay time : 0 ms, Rear delay time : 0 ms
- In the Dolby Pro Logic II Music, Matrix or Custom mode,
Rear delay time : 0 ms
- In the Dolby Pro Logic II Movie, Dolby Pro Logic mode,
Rear delay time : 10 ms
􄤎If the center or the rear speaker(s) is(are) not at the
same distance from the prime listening position as the
front speakers, increase or decrease the center delay
time by 1 ms for every about 30 cm(1 foot) it is closer
or farther away and increase or decrease the rear delay
time by 5 ms for every about 1~1.5 m(3~5 feet) it is
closer or farther away.

Will messing with this stuff help?

Also, I explained in full the problem, and she told me that NO receiver could actually output PERFECT sound synchronization. Not sure if that's true... Also, she said that the issue I described sounds like a processing problem. As in, possible the PS3 has a problem processing all the audio and then outputting it to the receiver... All possible I guess...

I also mentioned that some people also have drum free form lag. She said that it may be because the game is set up to register PRE DETERMINED sounds from the gems on the fret board. Once you introduce a kind of improvised sound making, and start slamming different notes on the drums, you introduce sounds the game cannot predict you making. Therefore it processes the audio with lag from the speakers... Very interesting theory i'd say...

With all that said, could that be another reason for our mic lag?

[Bakkster]

Will messing with this stuff help?

Also, I explained in full the problem, and she told me that NO receiver could actually output PERFECT sound synchronization. Not sure if that's true... Also, she said that the issue I described sounds like a processing problem. As in, possible the PS3 has a problem processing all the audio and then outputting it to the receiver... All possible I guess...

I also mentioned that some people also have drum free form lag. She said that it may be because the game is set up to register PRE DETERMINED sounds from the gems on the fret board. Once you introduce a kind of improvised sound making, and start slamming different notes on the drums, you introduce sounds the game cannot predict you making. Therefore it processes the audio with lag from the speakers... Very interesting theory i'd say...

With all that said, could that be another reason for our mic lag?

This lag synchronizations is intended to ADD lag to certain speakers so the sounds from all speakers reaches the same point in the room at the same time. It won't help us here. :(

It's true that no receiver will output "perfectly". What we're looking for is something within the human range of detection, something less than 30ms would be nice.

Her theory about why you get the lag is mostly correct, and essentially the same thing I've been trying to explain. Also, it is the same for the mic. I'm still not convinced that it's your PS3 that is causing the latency. Is it possible for you to try another console (that is lag-free elsewhere) on your receiver, or another audio output on your console (computer speakers, for example)? That should narrow the lag source to either the receiver or your PS3/Rock Band.

Did the lady from the company mention the common delay on your receiver, or if there is an input that bypasses any filtering circuitry that might cause a delay?

[Mistersh0w]

...Is it possible for you to try another console (that is lag-free elsewhere) on your receiver, or another audio output on your console (computer speakers, for example)? That should narrow the lag source to either the receiver or your PS3/Rock Band.

Unfortunately I don't have any other speaker source... What I do have, is a guitar amp, with the right cables from radio shack, I could try it out on that.... BUT, there's no way in hell i'm having a rock band party with all audio coming from a guitar amp....


Did the lady from the company mention the common delay on your receiver, or if there is an input that bypasses any filtering circuitry that might cause a delay?

She never mentioned it...

I'm so stuck here... This really sucks.

[Bakkster]

Unfortunately I don't have any other speaker source... What I do have, is a guitar amp, with the right cables from radio shack, I could try it out on that.... BUT, there's no way in hell i'm having a rock band party with all audio coming from a guitar amp....

Try it with the amp, just make sure not to blow it. It's not a solution, just a way to isolate the problem. If it's your PS3 the sound out of your amp will lag as well.

Ask the company again what the average latency between each input and audio output is, and if there is an input that has a lower latency.

[Dystocia]

I'm having the same problem. PS3 with a top of the line Onkyo receiver and similarly top of the line JVC HD TV. Using HDMI connections.

I love this game, but the delay introduced when using the mic and during drum fills makes the game nearly unplayable. This is a huge problem.

And no, it is not like buying a guitar and then complaining when some other device causes lag. It's like buying a new type of guitar, and then finding out that a large percentage of amps introduce lag, which would be pretty surprising to anyone who has every played guitar, and would make the instrument reeeeeal crappy.

I'm not saying it is the game company's fault that the lag occurs, but not telling me that the game may be unplayable on many high-end systems IS their fault.

I'd love to hear if someone makes a workaround. Otherwise, this is going to get ugly. Because, as is, the game is flat-out broken.

[fairysausage]

make sure you re-calibrate after you change your inputs/settings, people!

[EaglesFan1971]

I`m having the same problem as well with my PS3 version. However, I also have my PS2 wired up through the same sound system and when I play SingStar on the PS2, the sound matches perfectly. In my opinion, if SingStar syncs up perfectly and Rock Band doesn`t, it`s the game.

[Mistersh0w]

I`m having the same problem as well with my PS3 version. However, I also have my PS2 wired up through the same sound system and when I play SingStar on the PS2, the sound matches perfectly. In my opinion, if SingStar syncs up perfectly and Rock Band doesn`t, it`s the game.

AMEN! We need a fix for this NOW! It makes the game unplayable for singers (ME!). On my particular receiver, I hooked up some RCA cables, (audio only) set the receiver to pro logic, and changed the "distance setting", (in receiver) of front 3 speakers from 7 feet to 15. Now this didn't solve the problem, but it GREATLY reduced the lag. I tried out "Don't Fear the Reaper" on EXPERT, and I got 98%...

Now I guess it means the game MAY be registering my vocals in time with the other instruments, and vocals, but the audio lag makes it hard to keep the song going, especially when you have to keep a note going vocally. If lowering the volume of the mic will solve the problem completely for me with these settings, it still means the problem is not fixed. If you're not able to hear yourself through the speakers in time, where's the fun in singing?

I also found that the easiest way to find out if your mic is lagged, is to SNAP your fingers into the mic when it's on... Just horrible... that will show you how bad the lag is.... FIX THIS **** PLEASE HMX!!!!!!!!

[Bakkster]

I also found that the easiest way to find out if your mic is lagged, is to SNAP your fingers into the mic when it's on... Just horrible... that will show you how bad the lag is.... FIX THIS **** PLEASE HMX!!!!!!!!

Have you tried changing you receiver? You need to isolate the problem to the PS3 or Rock Band before you ask HMX to fix it.

[Dystocia]

Have you tried changing you receiver? You need to isolate the problem to the PS3 or Rock Band before you ask HMX to fix it.

Dang it, that's just crazy. If they are making a game which does not work properly on many systems (including high end systems), then that's a PROBLEM WITH THE GAME, regardless of where, technically, the lag is occurring. If the game won't play on certain TVs or certain receivers, then I needed to know that BEFORE I BOUGHT IT.

Think of it this way, if the game only worked on 40GB model PS3s, but they didn't tell you that ahead of time, it would NOT be acceptable to say "it's not the game, it's just that high capacity hard drives can't play music games -- just go buy a new PS3, stop blaming the game."

More to the point, if I need certain hardware (meaning, very specific types of amps or TVs) to play this game, and YOU DON'T TELL ME, then that's YOUR fault.

I love me some Rock Band, it is a brilliant game -- but it is broken on my TV. Also my brother's TV, and also my best friend's TV. We all use different amps and different TVs. But that is a 100% failure rate. Shifting the blame from the game company just makes you look like a fanboy apologist.

[rice4114]

Now listen here this just will not do!

Karaoke revolution 1 playing on my PS3-- beautiful sound, no lag, several hours played, never needed to adjust a single setting.

Karaoke revolution 2 playing on my PS3-- beautiful sound, no lag, several hours played, never needed to adjust a single setting.

Karaoke revolution 3 playing on my PS3-- beautiful sound, no lag, several hours played, never needed to adjust a single setting.

Karaoke revolution-American Idol playing on my PS3-- beautiful sound, no lag, several hours played, never needed to adjust a single setting.

Now if a PS2 game can work flawlessly out of the box for my ps3(which didnt even exist at the time)there is NO excuse for this. My wife is DONE with this game and its turned into a drum sim game for me. Shameful that someone is not troubleshooting this and at least responding with a "we've tried real hard but cant come up with a solution" instead of "hey try a different reciever or go buy and old tv while I sit at my computer and wait for you to figure it out"

I am currently using a ps3/yamaha reciever/optical cable/ infocus HD projector.

In response to "have you tried turning off the mic and singing out loud" Yeah ill roll up what used to be my $160 and use that as my mic, oh wait nevermind cant do that.


:mad::mad::mad:

[Mistersh0w]

I'm glad more peeps are coming out to back me up with this problem... It is COMPLETELY HMX's FAULT. END OF STORY. Now alls we need is an official word on a solution....GD it!

[StrangeDays]

I was just checking the FAQ, there's a little info in there about this sorta stuff in Section 5:

http://www.rockband.com/faq

[Bakkster]

I love me some Rock Band, it is a brilliant game -- but it is broken on my TV. Also my brother's TV, and also my best friend's TV. We all use different amps and different TVs. But that is a 100% failure rate. Shifting the blame from the game company just makes you look like a fanboy apologist.

Does it have the same amount of lag on each TV? If so, that does sound like an issue with the PS3 version of the game (notice how everyone with this issue is PS3). I'm not trying to shift blame. I've worked tech support before and the first thing I always do is to isolate every possible cause of the problem until I find the cause. Audio lag could commonly cause problems, but now that people are able to rule out their receiver, this is something you can make a bug report on.


Karaoke revolution 1 playing on my PS3-- beautiful sound, no lag, several hours played, never needed to adjust a single setting.

Karaoke revolution 2 playing on my PS3-- beautiful sound, no lag, several hours played, never needed to adjust a single setting.

Karaoke revolution 3 playing on my PS3-- beautiful sound, no lag, several hours played, never needed to adjust a single setting.

Karaoke revolution-American Idol playing on my PS3-- beautiful sound, no lag, several hours played, never needed to adjust a single setting.

Now if a PS2 game can work flawlessly out of the box for my ps3(which didnt even exist at the time)there is NO excuse for this. My wife is DONE with this game and its turned into a drum sim game for me. Shameful that someone is not troubleshooting this and at least responding with a "we've tried real hard but cant come up with a solution" instead of "hey try a different reciever or go buy and old tv while I sit at my computer and wait for you to figure it out"

I am currently using a ps3/yamaha reciever/optical cable/ infocus HD projector.

In response to "have you tried turning off the mic and singing out loud" Yeah ill roll up what used to be my $160 and use that as my mic, oh wait nevermind cant do that.

Just to be thorough, on all of your KR games, was your mic input playing through the speakers as well? Aka, did you hear yourself singing? If so, then there is some issue with the game/console itself.

The good news is that this can be patched, and you shouldn't need a new receiver/TV.
The bad news is that you may have to wait for a patch.

I'll drop some of the devs a line, although they probably won't be back until tomorrow, since they're at home with family today. I hope you guys get a good quick resolution.

[Mistersh0w]

Does it have the same amount of lag on each TV? If so, that does sound like an issue with the PS3 version of the game (notice how everyone with this issue is PS3). I'm not trying to shift blame. I've worked tech support before and the first thing I always do is to isolate every possible cause of the problem until I find the cause. Audio lag could commonly cause problems, but now that people are able to rule out their receiver, this is something you can make a bug report on.



Just to be thorough, on all of your KR games, was your mic input playing through the speakers as well? Aka, did you hear yourself singing? If so, then there is some issue with the game/console itself.

The good news is that this can be patched, and you shouldn't need a new receiver/TV.
The bad news is that you may have to wait for a patch.

I'll drop some of the devs a line, although they probably won't be back until tomorrow, since they're at home with family today. I hope you guys get a good quick resolution.


I appreciate your help Bakkster. You've stuck with this thread for a while now, being informative, and helpful. Ditto on the quick resolution as well...

[Dystocia]

[QUOTE=Bakkster;134329]Does it have the same amount of lag on each TV? If so, that does sound like an issue with the PS3 version of the game (notice how everyone with this issue is PS3). I'm not trying to shift blame. I've worked tech support before and the first thing I always do is to isolate every possible cause of the problem until I find the cause. Audio lag could commonly cause problems, but now that people are able to rule out their receiver, this is something you can make a bug report on.

Yes, same amount of lag on each TV. But this is a problem that appears to be affecting 360 owners as well, judging by the responses both on this thread and the identical "drum solo lag" thread (which is the same issue, really).

What makes me particularly confused, however, is that my PS2 SingStar games work perfectly through my PS3, which makes it SEEM like a software issue -- although I agree that amp/TV lag makes sense. Either way, it is an issue that Rock Band needs to address, as there was NO warning about this prior to me buying it.

Thanks.

[Mistersh0w]

Now that we've basically determined that this is a software problem more than anything else, it should be addressed to HMX. I called them on Weds. about this problem, and they said they would look into it and get back to me via email... Now sure how long this will take. Is there any way to get this info to HMX quicker that way we can get an OFFICIAL response/solution?

[Bakkster]

I got this from them, in response to the entire thread:

Thanks dude. We're taking a look at it now.
I assume once they think they have an idea what the problem is, they'll let us know what their plan is.

[Abstruse]

I have a 42" Samsung DLP HDTV using an X-Box 360 through component cables without Game Mode set on the TV playing through a 5.1 Dolby Digital home stereo system and the lag calibration in-game set to the default DLP mode.

I've experienced no lag problems at all in guitar, drums, or vocals. The only lag I've had is trying to do percussion on the mic (cowbell/tambourine). I also get the vocals through the speakers delayed by a quarter to a half a second, but it registers just fine in the game and it seems more like a lag in processing, just like the lag I get from the floor speakers when I play on stage -- the signal going from the mic to the X-Box to the TV to the receiver to the speakers similar to the lag from the signal going from the mic to the mixer board to the floor speakers the club.

[Micker]

THIS LAG HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VIDEO/TV!!!!

I can turn my tv off and say something into the mic, then hear it 1/4 sec later come out of my speakers. Video lag is not causing this, it has to do with processing the sound. It might be in the PS3 or due to the receiver. I have a PS3, and a brand new sony str-dg1000 receiver with hdmi connection.

This is a HUGE problem and makes singing in the game awful. A fix/workaround/patch needs to be found soon. I can't believe that they did not have this problem during testing. Did they test the game with any new receivers, connected hdmi from a PS3?? Come on, this sucks. People can play other singing games fine and this one lags, something needs to be looked at soon.

Between this and the drums that came with a DOA pad, i'm about 1 inch away from packing this up and bringing it back for good. The game looks cool, but if I have to put up with broken parts and mic lag that makes the singing unplayable, then I guess I will have to wait for another game to come along.

[Micker]

Hmm, I jsut switched off 5.1 in the options and the lag is much better. I would hate to have to play in stereo mode all the time. Maybe they can patch it so that the mic doesn't get processed into the 5.1??

[thrdeye]

Also looking for a solution......

[felonyruckus]

I have a PS3 hooked to a TV with HDMI

I also posted this in another thread, I hope it helps at least one person.

Okay, going through many of the "mic lagging" threads...if i missed some, I'm sorry...

I can see how Dolby Digital or having any kind of surround sound could mess you up because that how surround sound is suppose to work, it delays the speakers to give you the "effect" of a larger room. However, I don't think that that is where the problem lies. I've used RB for the past few days and I noticed the mic lag last night for the first time, it was flawless till last night, and I was pissed off but, I restarted my PS3 and it worked and fixed the problem.
Later on I played some of the demo games on my hard drive and I wondered if there would be lag on the mic again. Sure enough there it was...I rebooted the PS3 and low and behold it was fixed again.

Yeah I think it definately can be fixed as a firmware thing but, for Harmonix to be able to get Sony and Microsoft to release firmware upgrades for the sake of their own mistake, is whole other matter.

[thrdeye]

What do you mean that a restart corrects the problem? The lag disappears and comes back after a certain amount of songs?

[GregoryHarbin]

Just to chime in, we've been using Rock Band 360 with a projection system and a 5.1 audio system, Dolby Digital turned on, and have experienced no problems with the mic.

[Phear]

I do notice the lag - too bad cuz you can't calibrate to compensate when playing multiplayer - it would only throw others off. I hope the game makers notice the issue and try to solve it. I'm tired of playing the cowbell and tambourine a half second early every hit just to get the points, and losing the first short pitches of the phrases due to the sound not getting to the console yet.

I mean, I'm still scoring well, but I have to do it wrong to get it right.... if that makes any sense!:confused:

P.S. using a PS3 by the way

[piratepwnsninja]

Did a bit more testing. This is definitely an issue with certain equipment as on the CRT I had the game hooked up to yesterday for Thanksgiving didn't display any of the issues. I have also noticed that the issue is less noticeable on Hard than on Expert because it is more forgiving on parts of the song. For those saying you do not notice the issue, try it on Expert if you are not to see if you still notice. I tried a variety of settings on my receiver and the issue persists. :(

[Mistersh0w]

Hmm, the first week of launch is over and still no response from HMX on this issue? I know things like this aren't fixed right away, but we need to hear from HMX on a possible fix...

[betweentwofires]

All of these issues are identical to what I'm experiencing, and it's not an issue with my setup...I'm able to try several different options and the instruments work great, I just hear myself singing 250ms after I actually sing, and have a PS3. Eagerly awaiting a resolution to this, and a resolution to the GH guitar compatibility.

[Mistersh0w]

this thread should be kept alive, OR made sticky! The mic lag problem is AS important as the broken instrument problems. Do we have to wait more than a week to hear from HMX on this subject?! That's more than a week of a non working game.

[Bakkster]

this thread should be kept alive, OR made sticky! The mic lag problem is AS important as the broken instrument problems. Do we have to wait more than a week to hear from HMX on this subject?! That's more than a week of a non working game.

It's the weekend right now, and there's a crap ton of stuff that has happened this week (including Thanksgiving). I've been told they are looking at it, I'm sure we'll get word once they've got a fix. Until then, use the workaround.

[Micker]

Hope they look at this and can patch it. Maybe its a PS3 issue with the game??

[piratepwnsninja]

Hope they look at this and can patch it. Maybe its a PS3 issue with the game??

Its not just PS3.

[Angel Tits]

I had the smae problem with the PS3 version I bought. I returned the box because every component in the box had sensitivity issues.

My 360 version does not have the issue.
Is it possible that the Mic is the problem?

[Bakkster]

Are anyone's mics plugged into a USB hub? That can conceivable induce a delay.

[invisible21]

Does the game actually score you wrong when you have turned down the mic output all the way? I think you might be tricking yourself into thinking so.

And as a general hint: analog has (generally) no lag. The more digital connections and junctions you add, the more likely a signal is going to be delayed. Especially in the audio path, attempt to go analog the entire way. Otherwise, in rhythm game, you will find out just how much lag your setup has, and you won't like it.

Digital connections really aren't the main cause of cause lag. DSP, and A/D, D/A conversions are generally where lag is introduced. Earlier you mentioned HDMI being a problem. This isn't really the case since the video and audio are transmitted serially and de-embedded at the decoder, which means the video and audio should arrive at the same time. I work in a broadcast facility and nearly all of our signals are transmitted digitally embedded over SDI which is similar in theory to HDMI, and we wouldn't do that if it would result in lip sync issues.

The main reason A/V receivers have timing adjustments is to compensate for the delays created by their internal DSP units that allow you to have 'concert hall' or 'theater' type options which would introduce delays.

FYI, I'm having the same issues and I haven't had a chance to do all the testing but I'm leaning toward input lag. I think it may have something to do with the box that is in-line with the microphone, or the ridiculously long length of cable between the microphone and said box (which I'm assuming is an A/D converter).

[hypothetical]

I really hope they can fix this. It's pretty much made me give up on singing for now. Very disappointing.

[Graybeard]

I have a topic about this but nobody will seem to read and help so I saw quite a few people on here with Mic issues as well and decided to ask here. My Mic is making a staticy/crackling sound ONLY when I sing into it. The Static option in the pause menu is NOT on and I have never turned it on once ( no clue what it does I only assumed it would give a static effect ). Could this be becuase I have it plugged into the hub ( should I go directly through the 360 ) or do you think it is just my mic ( a faulty Mic issue )??

[Dystocia]

Are anyone's mics plugged into a USB hub? That can conceivable induce a delay.

That's a good guess, but my three examples (my set-up, my brother's set-up, and my friend's set up across the street) all have the delay in both the mic and the drum fills, and none of us use a USB hub.

The idea about it being the length of the cable is also an interesting idea, except that it doesn't appear to be affecting everyone (and I assume everyone has the same length cable).

I know it's the holidays right now, so the HMX crew are likely enjoying some well-deserved R&R, but I really hope we get some kind of response on Monday. Playing drums is a huge part of this game -- maybe the most important part in terms of separating this game from its competition -- and having drum fills be unusable makes the entire product a failure.

[Bakkster]

Digital connections really aren't the main cause of cause lag. DSP, and A/D, D/A conversions are generally where lag is introduced. Earlier you mentioned HDMI being a problem. This isn't really the case since the video and audio are transmitted serially and de-embedded at the decoder, which means the video and audio should arrive at the same time. I work in a broadcast facility and nearly all of our signals are transmitted digitally embedded over SDI which is similar in theory to HDMI, and we wouldn't do that if it would result in lip sync issues.

I agree, it's DACs and ADCs that cause the delay, and using an analog output can sometimes bypass those. As far as an HDMI signal having lag, this is caused not by the HDMI itself, but what the TV does with the audio once it receives it. Some just take longer to process the audio, others send it out delayed or to another component that is delayed. You are correct though that digital cable, in and of itself, does not induce a lag.


I have a topic about this but nobody will seem to read and help so I saw quite a few people on here with Mic issues as well and decided to ask here. My Mic is making a staticy/crackling sound ONLY when I sing into it. The Static option in the pause menu is NOT on and I have never turned it on once ( no clue what it does I only assumed it would give a static effect ). Could this be becuase I have it plugged into the hub ( should I go directly through the 360 ) or do you think it is just my mic ( a faulty Mic issue )??

Have you tried lowering the mic sensitivity? It sounds like you may be clipping the mic (the audio is louder than the maxiumum value). Try turning down the sensitivity and let us know if that fixes it.


That's a good guess, but my three examples (my set-up, my brother's set-up, and my friend's set up across the street) all have the delay in both the mic and the drum fills, and none of us use a USB hub.

The idea about it being the length of the cable is also an interesting idea, except that it doesn't appear to be affecting everyone (and I assume everyone has the same length cable).

I know it's the holidays right now, so the HMX crew are likely enjoying some well-deserved R&R, but I really hope we get some kind of response on Monday. Playing drums is a huge part of this game -- maybe the most important part in terms of separating this game from its competition -- and having drum fills be unusable makes the entire product a failure.

I doubted the hub would cause a problem, but I figured I'd throw it out there. Cable length shouldn't affect delay appreciably. Electricity travels very fast ;)

As far as a response, I've gotten word on good authority that HMX is looking into this. I have no idea when they will figure it out, or how high this is on their list of priorities (note all the other complaints they have to address). I haven't seen HMX wait much longer than necessary to make an announcement, so as soon as they know the cause of the problem and have a fix, they should be letting us know.

/Wall of text

[invisible21]

I have a topic about this but nobody will seem to read and help so I saw quite a few people on here with Mic issues as well and decided to ask here. My Mic is making a staticy/crackling sound ONLY when I sing into it. The Static option in the pause menu is NOT on and I have never turned it on once ( no clue what it does I only assumed it would give a static effect ). Could this be becuase I have it plugged into the hub ( should I go directly through the 360 ) or do you think it is just my mic ( a faulty Mic issue )??

It sounds like a problem with the mic itself, like the diaphragm could be damaged. This could be defective, or you might have damaged it by blowing directly into the mic or pushing a lot of air onto it with your singing style.

The Static option has nothing to do with actual audible static. That option changes the way the game displays the words. With static on, the words don't move (i.e. they're static)...they go page by page (like a karaoke bar). With static off, the words scroll continuously.

[invisible21]

Okay, I've finally had a chance to read through ALL the postings.

I guess my problem is, everyone who says 'turn off 5.1' or 'use an analog connection' or similar responses are not getting the point.

The game has an option for 5.1 for a reason...if it doesn't work with 5.1, the option SHOULDN'T EXIST.

The game is designed for game systems that are designed to take advantage of A/V receivers, HDMI inputs, and digital audio...if the game doesn't work with these technologies, they should take it back to the drawing board until they get it right.

Also, turning down the mic output is supposed to be a preference, not a requirement for proper gameplay. Again, if they can't get it right...DON'T RELEASE IT.

My issue is that I dropped $170 on this game, and it has MAJOR issues with MULTIPLE setups. If it was an issue with maybe one brand of receiver or a few models of TV, I might understand...given that there was some warning on the subject.

Also, how hard is it to get the singing part to work? As has been posted before, the SAME COMPANY has made countless Karaoke Revolution games that work FLAWLESSLY. All this game is doing is taking a slightly modified version of Karaoke Revolution and mixing it in with another game that already exists (and works).

I've been waiting for this game for so long...and I would have gladly waited a few more months if it meant that I'd get a product that WORKED. Now I don't know if I just need more time to get used to the guitar, but that started giving me problems last night as well, and I haven't even unlocked all the songs yet!!

I, along with what is now 11 pages worth of posters are just frustrated that we spent the equivalent of a PS2 and a couple games on this thing and it doesn't work as expected.

I guess this is what happens when big money companies put the pressure on established developers to get a product out in time for the holiday shopping period.



Since I haven't mentioned it yet, I'm playing on a PS3 (60GB) connected via HDMI to a 42" Samsung Plasma (HPS4253 I think) and audio connected separately via Optical cable to a Yamaha receiver (can't remember the model but it's a couple years old)

[Mistersh0w]

...My issue is that I dropped $170 on this game, and it has MAJOR issues with MULTIPLE setups. If it was an issue with maybe one brand of receiver or a few models of TV, I might understand...given that there was some warning on the subject...

This is what i've been saying all along. HMX probably didn't take this into account when developing the game, or had inadequate QA materials/resources. This alone would have warranted a PUSH in release, but some EFFING factor made them rush this game out for the week of Black Friday... And now we're all suffering for it. I wonder what percentage of consumers who bought this game have NON-WORKING versions... I'm willing to bet it would blow our minds to find out...

[EvilHerb]

I REFUSE to believe that its my Samsung DLPs fault . HOW CAN THE SINGING ARROW LAG TOO . IT IS THE MIC THAT IS THE PROBLEM . There is no way my DLP can make the arrow on the screen lag when I sing . ONLY the audio should lag if the the TV is the problem . NOT the graphics . I mean if the the Mic is plugged into the Xbox and THEN into the TV , the signal should not lag graphically ? Right ?

[Mistersh0w]

I REFUSE to believe that its my Samsung DLPs fault . HOW CAN THE SINGING ARROW LAG TOO . IT IS THE MIC THAT IS THE PROBLEM . There is no way my DLP can make the arrow on the screen lag when I sing . ONLY the audio should lag if the the TV is the problem . NOT the graphics .

I have a DLP set myself... I'm being patient for a solution, but about as patient as a person who just threw down $170 dollars for a non-working item...

[EvilHerb]

I have a DLP set myself... I'm being patient for a solution, but about as patient as a person who just threw down $170 dollars for a non-working item...

The bright side is that a patch should do the trick .

[Dystocia]

Looking forward to that. No ill will on my part -- yet -- provided we get some feedback early next week.

The game is great, just (for now) the only two instruments differentiating it from GH are crippled.

[vidwiz]

This is what i've been saying all along. HMX probably didn't take this into account when developing the game, or had inadequate QA materials/resources. This alone would have warranted a PUSH in release, but some EFFING factor made them rush this game out for the week of Black Friday... And now we're all suffering for it. I wonder what percentage of consumers who bought this game have NON-WORKING versions... I'm willing to bet it would blow our minds to find out...

Oh yes, I am suffering so badly, playing the most awesome music game to date with only a measly stereo audio channel. C'mon, this game is totally rad and just cause you can't have your full 5.1... oh what cruelty.

Yes, I've heard the fully dolby output and it is nice, I like hearing the audience in the rear channels among other things,

And yes I dislike the lag in the mic and I hate the drum fill delays.

But like anything else high tech, takes awhile to work the bugs out. It's not like HMX is the only one ever guilty of releasing a product that is less than perfect in its first iteration.

Do you all realize how mind blowingly difficult this project must have been to get not one or two or even three but FOUR different 'instruments' each with four different difficulties transcribed and programmed to songs that often have less than solid tempos (natural human tendency is to speed up, somebody or thing had to intricately map each and every beat and note of every song) not to mention developing the new peripheral input devices (however imperfect), all while making it work pretty darn well, in realtime, on today's consoles, it's freaking amazing!

This has been in the works for TEN years. Don't fault HMX for perhaps releasing a bit early and trying to get a return on their investment, happens all the time. For me, I would much rather be playing the game now with limited audio channels and a few programming quirks than not at all. HMX rules!

Seacrest, OUT.

[Micker]

I REFUSE to believe that its my Samsung DLPs fault . HOW CAN THE SINGING ARROW LAG TOO . IT IS THE MIC THAT IS THE PROBLEM . There is no way my DLP can make the arrow on the screen lag when I sing . ONLY the audio should lag if the the TV is the problem . NOT the graphics . I mean if the the Mic is plugged into the Xbox and THEN into the TV , the signal should not lag graphically ? Right ?

The mic lag has nothing to do with the tv!!

You can turn the tv off and then speak into the mic and you will hear a delay, as the voice comes from the speakers. It is more pronounced with 5.1 on, but it is still there with it off. It seems to be on PS3s from what I can see. I hope its patchable, maybe change the way the mic input is handled??

[bkwhitney]

At this point, complaining won't help and since there are multiple issues being commingled, it is very confusing to piece things together.

Let's take a minute to each explain their individual symptoms and your individual setups. This will help their QA department in troubleshooting as they sort through this mess of posts. If we can give them 50 different problematic hardware setups, that would go a long way in helping them figure out the problem and ruling out working setups. Also, if any dedicated posters would be willing to post their WORKING setups, I am sure that would also help quite a bit and would let the development team know how serious we are about the problem getting fixed.

I'll take a stab at a configuration list for everyone to fill out:

Setup:
Console: PS3
TV: Sony 55 inch LCD projection
Audio receiver: Yamaha HTR 5760
Connection from console to Audio Receiver: Optical Cable
Audio Receiver sound settings with problem: Tried both regular Stereo and Dolby Digital. Both experienced issues
USB Hub?: No, plugging instruments directly into console

Symptoms:
* Drum and Guitar timing is off. After fine-tuning with manual calibration, I've been able to get both instruments to work well on their own. But have yet to be able to get them to both work perfectly at the same time. Tuning to improve one seems to mess up the other. This might just require more tuning, not sure. But this seems to be a video lag problem which is configurable.
* Microphone lag is experienced both visually and audibly. Audio does not seem to register real-time both with the PS3 game console OR with the sound coming out of my speakers. The sound and game always lag ~250ms behind my actual voice. Nothing I do seems to affect this problem.

In this user's opinion, the microphone issue is severe enough that if I don't hear anything about a patch that can improve things, I will return the game as defective.

[Bakkster]

Let's take a minute to each explain their individual symptoms and your individual setups. This will help their QA department in troubleshooting as they sort through this mess of posts. If we can give them 50 different problematic hardware setups, that would go a long way in helping them figure out the problem and ruling out working setups. Also, if any dedicated posters would be willing to post their WORKING setups, I am sure that would also help quite a bit and would let the development team know how serious we are about the problem getting fixed.

Excellent idea.

Setup:
Console: Xbox 360
TV: Hanns-G HDMI LCD monitor
Audio receiver: Logitech 2.1 speakers
Connection from console to Audio Receiver: Analog
USB Hub?: Yes, no noticeable issues with mic in hub.

[invisible21]

Oh yes, I am suffering so badly, playing the most awesome music game to date with only a measly stereo audio channel. C'mon, this game is totally rad and just cause you can't have your full 5.1... oh what cruelty.

Yes, I've heard the fully dolby output and it is nice, I like hearing the audience in the rear channels among other things,

And yes I dislike the lag in the mic and I hate the drum fill delays.

But like anything else high tech, takes awhile to work the bugs out. It's not like HMX is the only one ever guilty of releasing a product that is less than perfect in its first iteration.

Do you all realize how mind blowingly difficult this project must have been to get not one or two or even three but FOUR different 'instruments' each with four different difficulties transcribed and programmed to songs that often have less than solid tempos (natural human tendency is to speed up, somebody or thing had to intricately map each and every beat and note of every song) not to mention developing the new peripheral input devices (however imperfect), all while making it work pretty darn well, in realtime, on today's consoles, it's freaking amazing!

This has been in the works for TEN years. Don't fault HMX for perhaps releasing a bit early and trying to get a return on their investment, happens all the time. For me, I would much rather be playing the game now with limited audio channels and a few programming quirks than not at all. HMX rules!

Seacrest, OUT.

You are missing the point completely. Yes, the CONCEPT of this game is "rad" and the game itself would be also if everything worked properly.

You say it has been soooo difficult for them to chart all the songs. Well, I would HOPE they'd be good at it by now given that they've done 2 guitar hero games and like 8 Karaoke Revolution games. For Christ's sake, the drum was the only 'original' part of this game and besides worrying about the bass pedal, mine has been working pretty well. Meanwhile, I have a guitar that's not strumming properly and a mic that is out of sync!

These problems are UNACCEPTABLE for a final product, especially one at this price point. The reason I love console gaming is that when a game is released, it's SUPPOSED TO WORK. That's not so with computer games where they release half-assed games all the time and fix them later. I want to play rock BAND, not 'drum hero'. If I wanted a drum game, I would have found an arcade with Drum Mania and dropped $170 in quarters to play that!

[FlyinWhee]

Audio/Video LAG is a very well known factor of problem for time-sensitive applications such as gaming. It has nothing to do with the game itself, it's the TV/Audio decoder at fault.

Just to prove it, use a standard CRT TV (for both video and audio) via composite stereo cables and everything will be fine. Because it's straight analog from point A to B.

Whenever something digital is involved, decoding occurs. and decoding is near instantaneous, but 'near' isn't enough when a 80ms delay is noticeable.

The best solution to anyone with a HDTV is to take the composite cables (yes, those classic white and red ones) and take them straight into a set of speakers. Simplest way is to use PC speakers via a 1/8" (headphones) stereo coupler. That way you go straight for an analog out.

Then you calibrate the A/V lag within the game, so the display lag you get from your TV will be compensated. You won't get any lag from the speakers, so all the game needs to do is send the video signal a few milliseconds earlier. And you'll be good to go.

That will fix mic lag AND drum fill lag. Which are the only two instances where the game can't just anticipate your actions.

[invisible21]

Let's take a minute to each explain their individual symptoms and your individual setups. This will help their QA department in troubleshooting as they sort through this mess of posts.

Sounds good, here's all my info in an organized fashion:

Setup:
Console: PS3
TV: Samsung 42" Plasma (HPS4253)
Audio receiver: Yamaha Receiver (I believe HTR-5890)
Connection from console to TV: HDMI
Connection from console to Audio Receiver: Optical Cable
Audio Receiver sound settings with problem: Tried Stereo, Dolby Digital, and receiver mode "Pure Direct". All experienced issues to varying degrees.
USB Hub?: No, plugging instruments directly into console

Symptoms:
* Same issues with calibration. Fixing one messes the other instrument(s) up. I think my guitar has a bad strum bar which could be exacerbating the situation.
* Microphone lag is experienced both visually and audibly.
* Visual lag is obvious...it doesn't seem to affect my scoring, but the arrow clearly shows up on the screen about ~250 ms after I make a noise. The only exceptions to this are the 'mic tapping' parts which seem to sync themselves up if you're close (although it didn't sync well at all for the Jet song's tambourine part)
* Audio lag is most prominent in DD5.1, less so in stereo, and even less in "Pure Direct" mode (which basically bypasses all processing). Audio lag is also present when listened to through TV speakers (via HDMI connection, about the same amount of lag as Stereo through the receiver).
* Audio lag appears to be less noticeable the farther from the mic I am, but that could just be perception, plus I can barely hear myself at that distance even with the mic output and sensitivity level turned all the way up.
* I've tried everything short of standing in a recording booth to isolate feedback and that seems to have no affect on the delay.

* As a final note, I'm not perfect, but my rhythm is pretty good as I've been playing music since the 4th grade (I'm 26 now).

[invisible21]

Audio/Video LAG is a very well known factor of problem for time-sensitive applications such as gaming. It has nothing to do with the game itself, it's the TV/Audio decoder at fault.

Just to prove it, use a standard CRT TV (for both video and audio) via composite stereo cables and everything will be fine. Because it's straight analog from point A to B.

Whenever something digital is involved, decoding occurs. and decoding is near instantaneous, but 'near' isn't enough when a 80ms delay is noticeable.

The best solution to anyone with a HDTV is to take the composite cables (yes, those classic white and red ones) and take them straight into a set of speakers. Simplest way is to use PC speakers via a 1/8" (headphones) stereo coupler. That way you go straight for an analog out.

Then you calibrate the A/V lag within the game, so the display lag you get from your TV will be compensated. You won't get any lag from the speakers, so all the game needs to do is send the video signal a few milliseconds earlier. And you'll be good to go.

That will fix mic lag AND drum fill lag. Which are the only two instances where the game can't just anticipate your actions.

HOLY CRAP...the whole point is that this game is ONLY released on HIGH DEFINITION gaming consoles that are meant to be played using DIGITAL connections. I played Guitar Hero I&II on PS2 using an optical cable and I NEVER had sync issues (with the same tv and receiver). Why did they bother putting a 5.1 mode if the game doesn't work with it????

If I wanted to play a game on a CRT through computer speakers, I'd just hook up my 2600.

[FlyinWhee]

HOLY CRAP...the whole point is that this game is ONLY released on HIGH DEFINITION gaming consoles that are meant to be played using DIGITAL connections. I played Guitar Hero I&II on PS2 using an optical cable and I NEVER had sync issues (with the same tv and receiver). Why did they bother putting a 5.1 mode if the game doesn't work with it????

If I wanted to play a game on a CRT through computer speakers, I'd just hook up my 2600.

As I stated as the very first thing in the message. This is an unavoidable issue caused not by the game itself. Go buy yourself a 12000$ Anthem amplifier and the problem will be solved.

The developers did everything right, the rest is purely and simply unavoidable. They put a 5.1 mode because if you have a low-latency amplifier, it'll work GREAT. Do you suggest they should remove it altogether just because it won't work for most of us? That's debatable.

And about playing Guitar Hero 1&II, you're exactly missing the point: The guitar parts don't cause any audio lag - well, they can foresee all of it: they send the image sooner, so that you see it timed correctly with the audio. It's very simple logic.

But the vocals coming in have to go through the whole input AND output lag. input is minimal, usually less than 40ms on most recording equipment, but then you get the added output lag, which throws it all to hell. Which is why you hear yourself late, but can play on time. The game gets the sound in time, but your own feedback is delayed.

Same applies for drum fills (you do what you want, no way in hell to foresee that).

[Micker]

As I stated as the very first thing in the message. This is an unavoidable issue caused not by the game itself. Go buy yourself a 12000$ Anthem amplifier and the problem will be solved.

The developers did everything right, the rest is purely and simply unavoidable. They put a 5.1 mode because if you have a low-latency amplifier, it'll work GREAT. Do you suggest they should remove it altogether just because it won't work for most of us? That's debatable.

And about playing Guitar Hero 1&II, you're exactly missing the point: The guitar parts don't cause any audio lag - well, they can foresee all of it: they send the image sooner, so that you see it timed correctly with the audio. It's very simple logic.

But the vocals coming in have to go through the whole input AND output lag. input is minimal, usually less than 40ms on most recording equipment, but then you get the added output lag, which throws it all to hell. Which is why you hear yourself late, but can play on time. The game gets the sound in time, but your own feedback is delayed.

Same applies for drum fills (you do what you want, no way in hell to foresee that).

There are singing games that have no lag. You think that buying a $12000 receiver is a solution?? You think they said, hey lets put in 5.1 for low latency receivers, which no one owns!! Come on man, that is crazy. 99.99999999% of the people don't have anything like that, but we do have $1000+ receivers and they don't work. It also seems to be an issue with the PS3 version of the game. Perhaps they could change the mic input to bypass any 5.1 processing??

[invisible21]

As I stated as the very first thing in the message. This is an unavoidable issue caused not by the game itself. Go buy yourself a 12000$ Anthem amplifier and the problem will be solved.

The developers did everything right, the rest is purely and simply unavoidable. They put a 5.1 mode because if you have a low-latency amplifier, it'll work GREAT. Do you suggest they should remove it altogether just because it won't work for most of us? That's debatable.

This isn't sound reasoning. I realize it's an expensive game...but the likelihood that more than .3% of the people playing it have a $12000 HT amplifier is slim to none. Admittedly, I haven't read through the entire manual, but if this mode will only work with insanely priced amplifiers...there should be some sort of notation to that effect in the audio menu.



And about playing Guitar Hero 1&II, you're exactly missing the point: The guitar parts don't cause any audio lag - well, they can foresee all of it: they send the image sooner, so that you see it timed correctly with the audio. It's very simple logic.

But the vocals coming in have to go through the whole input AND output lag. input is minimal, usually less than 40ms on most recording equipment, but then you get the added output lag, which throws it all to hell. Which is why you hear yourself late, but can play on time. The game gets the sound in time, but your own feedback is delayed.

I see your point about the guitar, and I guess Karaoke Revolution would be a better example. I've only played Karaoke Revolution at demo kiosks so I can't personally attest to the problem not existing...but I couldn't find any issues whatsoever with lip sync after a quick internet search, and in fact an earlier poster stated he had tried the Karaoke Revolution games on the PS3 with no sync issues. So how do you respond to that?

Additionally, it's not just the output lag...as has been stated by myself and others...the arrow indicating an input shows up ~250 ms after you talk into the mic...and I know from playing the karaoke games at the kiosk that that was never an issue with those games. So, there must be an issue with the MIC or the SOFTWARE.

Processing lag may be compounding the problem and making the output lag even more noticeable...and there may be nothing we can do about that...but there really shouldn't be an input lag between when I speak or tap on the mic, and when I see that arrow appear.

[FlyinWhee]

There are singing games that have no lag. You think that buying a $12000 receiver is a solution?? You think they said, hey lets put in 5.1 for low latency receivers, which no one owns!! Come on man, that is crazy. 99.99999999% of the people don't have anything like that, but we do have $1000+ receivers and they don't work. It also seems to be an issue with the PS3 version of the game. Perhaps they could change the mic input to bypass any 5.1 processing??

Well as far as I know, even singstar here has lag on PS2, on my HDTV. And about the Anthem amplifier, I was being sarcastic, but yes higher grade equipment tend to minimize lag. We test that stuff out all the time at work.

And there's no way to circumvent a single audio channel or input or whatever. The lag is there to stay, because the output at the game level is intact. what the game output is, in all theory, perfect. It's what happens after it leaves the console that screws it up.

So basically the 5.1 processing problem occurs at decoding... and maybe at encoding in the case of the PS3, but I doubt anyone tested comparatively the PS3 and the Xbox 360 to see if the result is the same. Which it probably is.



Additionally, it's not just the output lag...as has been stated by myself and others...the arrow indicating an input shows up ~250 ms after you talk into the mic...and I know from playing the karaoke games at the kiosk that that was never an issue with those games. So, there must be an issue with the MIC or the SOFTWARE.


Well, I'm guessing the lag compensation put in place for the other instruments might mess with the microphone, but honestly I have no answer yet to that yet. I'm supposed to be getting the game today or tomorrow (yah, I'm in Canada). So I'll be testing all that nice stuff out on the Xbox 360. But I'm starting to get the bigger picture that multiple sources of different kind could be at the source of the problem.

[Mistersh0w]

...But like anything else high tech, takes awhile to work the bugs out. It's not like HMX is the only one ever guilty of releasing a product that is less than perfect in its first iteration...

EXACTLY! I understand it's a highly intricate game, and with all the intricacies it takes time to produce a working game... With that said, THEY SHOULD HAVE WAITED TILL EVERYTHING WAS PERFECT!! I could have waited, I would have been patient! HELL the time flew by for this game to come out once it was announced... The fact of the matter is they tried to cash in on releasing this game before the holiday season, and it makes sense from a business stand point. But WE as the consumers are getting screwed out of this business move, and i'm a bitter consumer now... I love this game to death, it's a fantastic amazing, groundbreaking game, and it'll be even better once it WORKS.

[Mistersh0w]

The best solution to anyone with a HDTV is to take the composite cables (yes, those classic white and red ones) and take them straight into a set of speakers. Simplest way is to use PC speakers via a 1/8" (headphones) stereo coupler. That way you go straight for an analog out...

Is that really the "best" solution? So you're telling me I NEED to downgrade my existing audio setup, that has until now worked PERFECTLY with EVERY NEW product that is compatible with my consumer grade setup, JUST so Rock Band will work properly!? What about lossless audio on my Blu Ray discs? I would have to mess with my audio setup EVERY TIME I WANT TO PLAY ROCK BAND, and sacrifice my optimal audio settings?! Just because HMX didn't take this issue very seriously?! I love it! Next you'll say they should put a BIG BRIGHT sticker on the box that says "WARNING ROCK BAND MAY NOT WORK WITH YOUR CONSUMER GRADE AUDIO SYSTEM!!! SORRY!!! SUCKERS!"

[Micker]

The 5.1 is really a big part of the game. Hearing the crowd cheering in the surrounds etc. is something you REALLY miss and takes away from the game.

[Bakkster]

Is that really the "best" solution? So you're telling me I NEED to downgrade my existing audio setup, that has until now worked PERFECTLY with EVERY NEW product that is compatible with my consumer grade setup, JUST so Rock Band will work properly!? What about lossless audio on my Blu Ray discs? I would have to mess with my audio setup EVERY TIME I WANT TO PLAY ROCK BAND, and sacrifice my optimal audio settings?! Just because HMX didn't take this issue very seriously?! I love it! Next you'll say they should put a BIG BRIGHT sticker on the box that says "WARNING ROCK BAND MAY NOT WORK WITH YOUR CONSUMER GRADE AUDIO SYSTEM!!! SORRY!!! SUCKERS!"

Maybe your audio system should have had a BIG BRIGHT sticker on the box that says: "Warning, this system may induce an audio latency that is not suited for some applications"

It sucks that you have lag, but you can either work to fix it, or ***** about it and have nothing happen. Have you at least tried Rock Band on a CRT and computer speakers to verify that it is your stereo system or that it is the game/console? Until then, we can only make suggestions, we aren't going to come to your house and fix it for you.

[FlyinWhee]

Maybe your audio system should have had a BIG BRIGHT sticker on the box that says: "Warning, this system may induce an audio latency that is not suited for some applications"

It sucks that you have lag, but you can either work to fix it, or ***** about it and have nothing happen. Have you at least tried Rock Band on a CRT and computer speakers to verify that it is your stereo system or that it is the game/console? Until then, we can only make suggestions, we aren't going to come to your house and fix it for you.

QFT.

And I thought that I could use my expertise here to help people understand and find solutions, but when all you get for your effort is a bunch of ingrate mouthing off like you told them it was their fault there's a war in Iraq...

I'm out of this thread, good luck.

[Dystocia]

It sucks that you have lag, but you can either work to fix it, or ***** about it and have nothing happen. Have you at least tried Rock Band on a CRT and computer speakers to verify that it is your stereo system or that it is the game/console? Until then, we can only make suggestions, we aren't going to come to your house and fix it for you.

I think this quote says it all. This guy considers himself part of the Harmonix team somehow, saying "WE aren't going to come to your house." Either (a) he works for Harmonix and is being weirdly apathetic about a product that doesn't work right or (b) he is such a fanboy that he actually says "we" about a company he doesn't even actually represent. Either way, he ain't helping.

If the problem is that many HD systems introduce lag, thereby making the drums and mics mostly unplayable, then I should have been told this ahead of time. It is not acceptable to say I can (maybe) fix the problem by buying a different TV or somehow bypassing my amp and running through crappy TV speakers. Well, at least, it isn't acceptable to tell me that AFTER I buy the game.

And to be fair, Harmonix is not dumb enough to tell me that. Just some of the fanboys on this forum who feel they need to stick up for their best friend company (which is doubly annoying because I'm a huge fan of Harmonix myself).

My setup:
JVC HD Rear Projection TV
PS3
Onkyo HD Receiver
5.1 Speaker Set Up
No USB Hub

I get VERY bad lag on mic and drums regardless of whether or not I select the "DD" setting inside of Rock Band.

Also, unrelated note, my guitar strum bar stopped working properly yesterday. *sigh*

[Bakkster]

I think this quote says it all. This guy considers himself part of the Harmonix team somehow, saying "WE aren't going to come to your house." Either (a) he works for Harmonix and is being weirdly apathetic about a product that doesn't work right or (b) he is such a fanboy that he actually says "we" about a company he doesn't even actually represent. Either way, he ain't helping.

I don't work for HMX or EA, nor have I ever claimed to. I was simply referring to myself and FlyingWhee (who also is not a HMX/EA employee, to my knowledge) who have been trying to use our knowledge of audio systems and troubleshooting techniques to try and help.

The problem is that when we ask people to try something that will either:
A) Fix the problem
B) Narrow down the cause of the problem to something else that can be fixed
We tend to get angry answers from people who don't want to try these steps. I can only tell you what I think may be causing a problem, and help you determine if the problem is caused by input latency, output latency, or the game itself. Like I said, I can't come to your house and fix it for you, I can only work with you to help fix it.

Honestly, I'd really like to help everyone get the game running on their systems, but if somebody doesn't cooperate, I can't do a thing. If you want to fix your problems, I will help, but I won't just chill here and let people harass me when all I'm trying to do is get the game running for you. Take it or leave it.

[gutterboy44]

-----------The Solution----------------

Disable Dolby Digital in the options menu



This is what creates the lag. I played the game over vacation on and SDTV and then played it at home on an LCD HDTV the lag had nothing to do with the calibration just the Dolby Digital setting. Apparently the coding of your voice into DD creates a slight lag.

Honestly, the DD effects are pretty lame. It makes the crowd noise behind you, and it is really loud. This makes no sense since the crowd is in front of you when you perform.
Anyway, turn of Dolby Digital and you are all set.

[Mistersh0w]

Honestly, I'd really like to help everyone get the game running on their systems, but if somebody doesn't cooperate, I can't do a thing. If you want to fix your problems, I will help, but I won't just chill here and let people harass me when all I'm trying to do is get the game running for you. Take it or leave it.

Look, a lot of us are pissed off consumers here, and rightfully so. I appreciate all the help everyone has been, with suggestions and such, unfortunately most of the suggestions call for ridiculous alternative audio setups, which I know are meant for short term results to isolate the problem, but it's not our job to do so! What I've been waiting for is an official response from HMX, the "*****ing" I've been subjecting you all to is partly to keep the thread alive, and partly to make newcomers to the thread not feel alone on the matter. I fully welcome ANY alternative suggestions for this problem, but I AM NOT going to resort to spending MORE money, or sacrificing my suitable audio setup which has given me NO problems what so ever thus far on ANY new electronics/products...

Once again, I do appreciate all the help, and apologize for being "*****y", but what's a guy to do in this situation?! Talking about it, in most cases, is what's helping in the long run...

[Bakkster]

Once again, I do appreciate all the help, and apologize for being "*****y", but what's a guy to do in this situation?! Talking about it, in most cases, is what's helping in the long run...

Have you isolated the problem yet by playing through a CRT and computer speakers? Have you asked the company that makes your receiver if they have a low latency input?

[Mistersh0w]

Have you isolated the problem yet by playing through a CRT and computer speakers? Have you asked the company that makes your receiver if they have a low latency input?

Unfortunately I don't have easy access to a CRT set, (I did this weekend, but I forgot the controller for the mic...) I have also yet to ask Kenwood if they have a low latency input, I did talk to a woman at Kenwood, told her the situation, she seemed to understand completely. If there were alternative options for fixing the latency, she would have mentioned it... She did say to TRY to mess with the "distance" settings, though she said it may not help. It actually kind of did, but it's definitely not a solution... I will call again once i'm home from work... Once again, thank you for the suggestions.

[Bakkster]

Unfortunately I don't have easy access to a CRT set, (I did this weekend, but I forgot the controller for the mic...) I have also yet to ask Kenwood if they have a low latency input, I did talk to a woman at Kenwood, told her the situation, she seemed to understand completely. If there were alternative options for fixing the latency, she would have mentioned it... She did say to TRY to mess with the "distance" settings, though she said it may not help. It actually kind of did, but it's definitely not a solution... I will call again once i'm home from work... Once again, thank you for the suggestions.

You're welcome. I know somebody else was able to use a direct speaker input which bypassed the digital processing. Another just had to change the sound settings without having to change the cables. Hopefully you have a similar solution.

[silverdragon1979]

Everyone ....

The problem with the mic and the drum latency has absolutely nothing to do with your TV set or your stereo set. First of all this problem IS IN NO WAY VISUAL, so let's just stop blaming the type of TV we have. The problem is completely related to the way the game encodes and transmits your voice to the audio output.

The fact that when you are playing the regular guitar tracks or the regular drum tracks the audio perfectly matches what are you physically playing on your guitar or drum set proves that there is also no audio latency associated with your stereo. The problem is completely related to the way the game samples your voice, converts it to a digital signal, and then sends that signal to your stereo.

As stated earlier the latency seems to be related to the way the game handles Dolby Digital encoding. I had horrible latency myself with both the mic and the drums when I had Dolby Digital enabled. When I disabled it the latency is almost completely gone. So ...

SOLUTION --> DISABLE DOLBY DIGITAL

[djadam12]

Setup:
Console: 360
TV: Samsung 56" DLP
Audio receiver: Yamaha
Connection from console to TV: component
Connection from console to Audio Receiver: Optical Cable
Audio Receiver sound settings with problem: DD
USB Hub?: yup

i get lag on vocals and drum fills. as others have mentioned, i also see the arrow appear a split second AFTER i say anything into the mic - so there HAS to be some kind of latency introduced IN GAME. when i checked out the adjustment page,everything looked fine, so i didn't mess with it - if i mess with the video delay will i mess up how the guitars score?

i agree that my sound system may be adding to the latency - i set the system to DD right away when i saw it, i'll try without to see if that helps.

my sound system has a delay option that allows me to add latency to the audio because HD video signals take longer to process than the audio (at least thats how i understand it). i know i have a slight delay set there, so i'll get rid of that and see if that fixes it. the only problem there is that i don't think it remembers different delay settings for each input - so i might need to change it back and forth when i go from playing RB to watching TV...

i'm not singing on expert, so scoring hasn't been an issue - the delay has just been a minor annoyance. glad i found this post though, i wish i had remembered that delay setting myself...

thanks.

[vidwiz]

Everyone ....

The problem with the mic and the drum latency has absolutely nothing to do with your TV set or your stereo set. First of all this problem IS IN NO WAY VISUAL, so let's just stop blaming the type of TV we have. The problem is completely related to the way the game encodes and transmits your voice to the audio output.

The fact that when you are playing the regular guitar tracks or the regular drum tracks the audio perfectly matches what are you physically playing on your guitar or drum set proves that there is also no audio latency associated with your stereo. The problem is completely related to the way the game samples your voice, converts it to a digital signal, and then sends that signal to your stereo.

As stated earlier the latency seems to be related to the way the game handles Dolby Digital encoding. I had horrible latency myself with both the mic and the drums when I had Dolby Digital enabled. When I disabled it the latency is almost completely gone. So ...

SOLUTION --> DISABLE DOLBY DIGITAL

Here, here, finally some sense. Think about it, when you play a movie, the audio follows the video just fine. Why? Because it has been pre-encoded. The mic and drum fills lag because they have to be encoded on the spot. Enough with the receiver nonsense.

I don't see a fix to this unless they can improve the efficiency of the encoding. They could delay everything to match the dolby output but then of course we're not in realtime or something close.

[Mistersh0w]

Everyone ....

The problem with the mic and the drum latency has absolutely nothing to do with your TV set or your stereo set. First of all this problem IS IN NO WAY VISUAL, so let's just stop blaming the type of TV we have. The problem is completely related to the way the game encodes and transmits your voice to the audio output.

The fact that when you are playing the regular guitar tracks or the regular drum tracks the audio perfectly matches what are you physically playing on your guitar or drum set proves that there is also no audio latency associated with your stereo. The problem is completely related to the way the game samples your voice, converts it to a digital signal, and then sends that signal to your stereo.

As stated earlier the latency seems to be related to the way the game handles Dolby Digital encoding. I had horrible latency myself with both the mic and the drums when I had Dolby Digital enabled. When I disabled it the latency is almost completely gone. So ...

SOLUTION --> DISABLE DOLBY DIGITAL

this is good to hear as tinkering with my setup, and lugging the ps3 and RB peripherals to other home theater setups for testing purposes would be tedious, and is frustrating... Also, i'm not a QA tester for HMX, so I don't know why i'm obligated to force a new setup for my perfectly fine setup in order for THEIR game to work on MY system.... BUT, let's not beat a dead horse here! I digress!

I actually HAVE disabled the DD in the audio settings in game, this only fixed the lag SLIGHTLY. The problem is still there, and it's still inaccurate and laggy... I'm glad this works for some people, but it's not a solution for a lot of us...

[Bakkster]

Here, here, finally some sense. Think about it, when you play a movie, the audio follows the video just fine. Why? Because it has been pre-encoded. The mic and drum fills lag because they have to be encoded on the spot. Enough with the receiver nonsense.

I don't see a fix to this unless they can improve the efficiency of the encoding. They could delay everything to match the dolby output but then of course we're not in realtime or something close.

This is possible. However, receivers are still the cause of most of the problems. There have been several people on these forums who had problems because of DDS, some who had problems because of receivers inducing lag. Both are possible, and both are (hopefully) easy fixes once you have pinpointed them as the cause.

Sean made a post about the issue here (http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=10861).

[Dystocia]

-----------The Solution----------------

Disable Dolby Digital in the options menu.

I appreciate the advice, but it does not fix the problem for me. It also does not fix the problem for my brother (different TV, but same amp) and does not fix the problem for my neighbor (different TV and different amp).

I'm glad it worked for you, but it is definitely not working for many of us.

[thrdeye]

I am running the audio out of my PS3 via the standard composite cable straight into my receiver and running video out via HDMI. I set my receiver to 2 channel stero. The lag is there, but it is 99% imperceptable.

[Angry_Games]

Are anyone's mics plugged into a USB hub? That can conceivable induce a delay.

I don't get any lag from the USB mic (it's plugged into the hub) but I get it badly from the headset mic plugged into the controller. Looking to resolve that when I get back in the house with the lag calibration thing (if possible)

42" rear-proj HDTV @ 1080i
Creative DTS-100 5.1 decoder
Klipsch 5.1 500w digital pc speakers

Xbox360 is optical-out into the Creative decoder. I think it's just the same lag I always get when talking to someone in voice chat through the headset. More when I figure it out.

[invisible21]

The 5.1 is really a big part of the game. Hearing the crowd cheering in the surrounds etc. is something you REALLY miss and takes away from the game.

Now that I think about this statement/concept...I'm actually thinking it should be the other way around...massive amounts of crowd noise from the front, and the majority of the band noise coming from behind. Still, the 5.1 'immersion' aspect, I agree, is a HUGE part of the experience of being a ROCK BAND!

[djadam12]

Everyone ....

SOLUTION --> DISABLE DOLBY DIGITAL

worked for me!

i also removed the 70ms delay i had added on my receiver (which was to compensate for lip sync issues when watching DVDs)

i tinkered with the manual lag settings as well a bit, but DD=off was the thing that did the most.

i only checked one song real quick, but there was NO perceivable lag. i hope this fixed the drum fill lag as well.

thanks guys!

[Bakkster]

worked for me!

i also removed the 70ms delay i had added on my receiver (which was to compensate for lip sync issues when watching DVDs)

i tinkered with the manual lag settings as well a bit, but DD=off was the thing that did the most.

i only checked one song real quick, but there was NO perceivable lag. i hope this fixed the drum fill lag as well.

thanks guys!

Good to hear!

[coryisbored]

so im having the same problem, yet im not running any reciever. im going straight from my ps3 to my hdtv and having a small delay. i tried it straight into a SDTV and there was still a small delay. i think its weird that older games such as kareoke rev. work on ps2, but 170$ rock band doesnt work on ps3.. hmm weird. i really dont think the receiver/tv/audio setup is the complete problem. DD is off, my tv is on game mode and i did everything to prevent delay, yet there is still delay. it HAS to be something wrong with the game if this many people are having problems with it.

[piratepwnsninja]

After further analysis I think that the problem has nothing to do with lag with audio receivers, etc and MORE to do with lag from the USB mic itself. Could also explain the lag with drum fills as they are not canned and have to do with decoding from the digital USB signal in the Xbox then out. This also deals with the slight audible delay you hear from when you speak into the mic and hear it out of your speakers. Sure turning off DD makes it shorter, but it does NOT eliminate it completely. I have actually had many people run the test below on varying setups and all have found it true.

Before people say I am obviously wrong, hear me out and at least TRY what I am going to suggest in order to see the problem. Start on easy difficulty with singing and notice, well, how easy it is. Do the same song on a higher difficulty and keep doing this until you go to expert. You will notice that on easier difficulties, the timing window for when you can start is much greater than it is on hard or expert. On Expert, even running directly to a TV's audio inputs, you have to hum or start a split-second before you are supposed to so that the ARROW indicating you have started singing actually shows up in time to register. I do not think this has anything to do lag being introduced AFTER the sound leaves the 360, but actually with lag introduced from the time the sound even gets decoded inside the 360 and it registers in game.

Many people probably just think, "Oh, it must be something with expert difficulty just being really hard." when in reality it is just off due to this. No amount of cable rewiring, new audio equipment, etc. is going to fix a problem introduced at the point the sound gets into the console. This is something that is going to have to be patched. How they fool the system is up to them (there are a few ways I can think of), but it needs to be done.

[NewTruthNeomaxim]

Man... you are absolutely right.

Having played exclusively on Easy/Medium vocals, it seemed I had avoided this particular problems, but in reality, it is only because the margin of error is so forgiving on those difficulty levels.

Moving up to expert indeed shows that there is just enough of a strange delay in the audio, that you need to sort of.... mis-sing songs to get credit. Forget Sabotage, which essentially requires me to "hum" a steady note to get any way through it.

I've tried hooked through the full home-theater/AV rig, and directly into a TV.... this is NOT a problem with tech on my end, regardless of what Harmonix suggests.

[invisible21]

I have been saying the same thing. The REAL problem is that the arrow doesn't show up instantaneously which is in turn affecting the accuracy on the less forgiving difficulties (expert can be painful).

I've been following this thread because I thought my problem was just in the output lag. I've since spent hours calibrating it and playing with settings in the game and on my receiver, and have managed to get the output lag to an acceptable level (still there, just not a deal breaker). However, now that I've played the game some more and ventured into the higher difficulties I'm having a ridiculously hard time hitting the notes on time...including Sabotage which is exclusively rhythm singing.

[piratepwnsninja]

These threads disappear pretty quickly, and this is a pretty big issue for me so a response that mentions the ACTUAL issue I described above and not a "its your receiver" or "turn off dolby digital" would be nice.

[Bakkster]

These threads disappear pretty quickly, and this is a pretty big issue for me so a response that mentions the ACTUAL issue I described above and not a "its your receiver" or "turn off dolby digital" would be nice.

http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=10861

DDS and receiver issues seem to be the most common. Otherwise, post your setup in the other thread, and HMX will take a look at what is causing the issues. Until they can pinpoint the issue, they can't make any more of a statement.

[piratepwnsninja]

http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=10861

DDS and receiver issues seem to be the most common. Otherwise, post your setup in the other thread, and HMX will take a look at what is causing the issues. Until they can pinpoint the issue, they can't make any more of a statement.

Way to read dude. I stated above what the actual issue is and it has nothing to do with DDS or your setup.


After further analysis I think that the problem has nothing to do with lag with audio receivers, etc and MORE to do with lag from the USB mic itself. Could also explain the lag with drum fills as they are not canned and have to do with decoding from the digital USB signal in the Xbox then out. This also deals with the slight audible delay you hear from when you speak into the mic and hear it out of your speakers. Sure turning off DD makes it shorter, but it does NOT eliminate it completely. I have actually had many people run the test below on varying setups and all have found it true.

Before people say I am obviously wrong, hear me out and at least TRY what I am going to suggest in order to see the problem. Start on easy difficulty with singing and notice, well, how easy it is. Do the same song on a higher difficulty and keep doing this until you go to expert. You will notice that on easier difficulties, the timing window for when you can start is much greater than it is on hard or expert. On Expert, even running directly to a TV's audio inputs, you have to hum or start a split-second before you are supposed to so that the ARROW indicating you have started singing actually shows up in time to register. I do not think this has anything to do lag being introduced AFTER the sound leaves the 360, but actually with lag introduced from the time the sound even gets decoded inside the 360 and it registers in game.

Many people probably just think, "Oh, it must be something with expert difficulty just being really hard." when in reality it is just off due to this. No amount of cable rewiring, new audio equipment, etc. is going to fix a problem introduced at the point the sound gets into the console. This is something that is going to have to be patched. How they fool the system is up to them (there are a few ways I can think of), but it needs to be done.

[Mistersh0w]

...Before people say I am obviously wrong, hear me out and at least TRY what I am going to suggest in order to see the problem. Start on easy difficulty with singing and notice, well, how easy it is. Do the same song on a higher difficulty and keep doing this until you go to expert. You will notice that on easier difficulties, the timing window for when you can start is much greater than it is on hard or expert. On Expert, even running directly to a TV's audio inputs, you have to hum or start a split-second before you are supposed to so that the ARROW indicating you have started singing actually shows up in time to register. I do not think this has anything to do lag being introduced AFTER the sound leaves the 360, but actually with lag introduced from the time the sound even gets decoded inside the 360 and it registers in game.

Many people probably just think, "Oh, it must be something with expert difficulty just being really hard." when in reality it is just off due to this. No amount of cable rewiring, new audio equipment, etc. is going to fix a problem introduced at the point the sound gets into the console. This is something that is going to have to be patched. How they fool the system is up to them (there are a few ways I can think of), but it needs to be done.

You NEED to post this in the sticky HMX employee started thread concerning the audio lag... I think everyone needs to read this. This seems to make the most sense to me out of every explanation I've read...

[piratepwnsninja]

You NEED to post this in the sticky HMX employee started thread concerning the audio lag... I think everyone needs to read this. This seems to make the most sense to me out of every explanation I've read...

Well, they have been making music games for awhile, so I am sure they know what the actual problem is. If it is this, it isn't something I would readily expect them to bring up. I mean, it'd be nice if they actually did come out and admit what the actually problem is with this issue and if I am completely off-base in my findings. I know how industry things work though as I am part of the industry (though I work on a popular shooter franchise, not music games) so sometimes comments have to be approved before getting posted and who knows what limitations they have on what they can say from their publisher, owner, etc. So despite me as a customer being upset with there being something wrong, me as a developer understands that they are probably working to fix issues and would A) rather spend time getting stuff fixed or b) Just aren't able to comment.

[piratepwnsninja]

Daily bump.

[rice4114]

Audio/Video LAG is a very well known factor of problem for time-sensitive applications such as gaming. It has nothing to do with the game itself, it's the TV/Audio decoder at fault.

Just to prove it, use a standard CRT TV (for both video and audio) via composite stereo cables and everything will be fine. Because it's straight analog from point A to B.

Whenever something digital is involved, decoding occurs. and decoding is near instantaneous, but 'near' isn't enough when a 80ms delay is noticeable.

The best solution to anyone with a HDTV is to take the composite cables (yes, those classic white and red ones) and take them straight into a set of speakers. Simplest way is to use PC speakers via a 1/8" (headphones) stereo coupler. That way you go straight for an analog out.

Then you calibrate the A/V lag within the game, so the display lag you get from your TV will be compensated. You won't get any lag from the speakers, so all the game needs to do is send the video signal a few milliseconds earlier. And you'll be good to go.

That will fix mic lag AND drum fill lag. Which are the only two instances where the game can't just anticipate your actions.


Ill just bang a hammer against my head instead of using my $2000 audio setup. You gotta be kidding me. :mad:

[piratepwnsninja]

Ill just bang a hammer against my head instead of using my $2000 audio setup. You gotta be kidding me. :mad:

Well, it isn't an issue with your audio setup. :)

[joseph91278]

I have a Samsung DLP and bought my copy of RB for my 40Gb PS3 last night. Every time I try to use the mic, it echos back about 1/4-second after I speak/sing. It's really throwing me off. I've tried to quiet the mic playback, but none of the vocal audio settings are allowing me to do that.

Anyone experiencing the same thing? Anyone know how to fix it?

Does anyone know if you have to have a microphone to play this game?

[EvilAdam]

it would be nice for the guys to actually put out a patch for the damn game after all this talk of the delay issue or respond to a thread. I've seen the harmonix fanboys responding constantly telling folks about surround sound setups and hdtv's but in reality, unless they actually work for harmonix I really don't care what the hell they have to say simply because:

It is obvious that it is a software problem when so many people not having hdtv's or turning dolby off, optical or not, and the fact that guitar and drums are perfectly fine as long as it isn't solos.... so really, this game needs a patch and it needs one bad. No one is adressing this, directly, or indirectly from harmonix. No press release, no blog posts, nothing. I rather be able to sing all the damn songs I have already bought, DLC or not, than be offered more to buy that I won't be able to sing without training myself to have the most horrible timing on earth.

Rock Band on my PS3 with a STANDARD definition TV, with DOLBY off, still delays on vocals as if I were singing into the grand damn canyon. The USB mic works with other things with NO delay. So, that pretty much just deletes every hardware possibility, especially since calibrating makes NO difference in a positive sense.

So, what about that patch, fix, or a shot to the head to put me out of my damn misery?

[Radjago]

hmxsean does work for Harmonix. Here's his thread for latency issues.

http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10861

However, I've found Project_Mercy's calibration method to be the most detailed and effective.

http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19520&page=2

[EvilAdam]

Yeah, and after hmxsean started that thread he hasn't responded to it.

That is EXACTLY my point.