On Rock Band compatibility-

[hmxsean]

We’ve stated many times that Rock Band supports an open standard. What does that mean? It means that Rock Band supports the same system that drives a basic PS3 or Xbox 360 controller or peripheral.

If your controller or peripheral doesn’t work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn’t support the standard controller configuration. In other words, if a peripheral or controller doesn’t work with Rock Band, then the manufacturer has done something to prevent it from working with Rock Band by changing how the device “talks” to either a PS3 or Xbox 360.

If any controller or peripheral manufacturer wants their product to work with Rock Band, we promise to work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

We also want you to know that we are working to get stand-alone Rock Band Guitars, Drums and Microphones to the market as soon as possible. In addition to rounding out the band with a second guitar, Rock Band supports guitar vs. guitar, drum vs. drum and vocal vs. vocal modes.

We want you to enjoy Rock Band and have set up a superior customer service program. If you have any concerns about Rock Band, please visit: http://support.ea.com/rockband

[AdamWill]

As I wrote to you in a private message, Sean, this is tripe. To summarize, you cannot claim the standards set for general purpose controllers for a system as sufficient for guitar-based rhythm games, because *every* such game uses a special convention to recognize a compatible controller, and there is no agreed convention for which of the controls available on a standard controller should map to the fret buttons, which should map to the strum bar, which should map to the whammy bar etc. Given that there is no standard to define these conventions there *is* no sufficient 'open standard' for interoperable guitar controllers, and you cannot rely on that argument. All the companies which make guitar-based rhythm action games are equally to blame for *not* coming together to define a true open standard for the necessary conventions to create such a game and such a controller.

The full message I sent to Sean follows.

Sorry, but I disagree. Sure, there's an open standard so far as 'there are these ten button definitions and two axis definitions' (or whatever) and all controllers must use them. However, there is no 'open standard' that defines how these potential controls are actually mapped by a guitar-based rhythm action game.

anyone who's tried to use a Guitar Hero guitar on Guitar Freaks knows that it doesn't work right, because the two use different methods of signalling that a given controller is a guitar (I think GH controllers permanently hold down left and right while GF controllers just permanently hold down left, or something).

Saying that there is an 'open standard' for guitar controllers because they're all forced to work within the total space of buttons and axes that the console will actually recognize is meaningless. That's just an inherent technical limitation of the platform, it's not a 'standard'. A 'standard' would be a reference document which said that, for all compliant guitar-based rhythm action games, a given signal would be used to recognize a controller, a given axis or button combination or something would be used for the strum bar, a given set of buttons would count as the fret buttons.

If there was no special signal for a compatible controller, simple button associations were used for all controls, and all the games included the option to re-map buttons on the controller, there'd be no need for this, you could rely on being able to remap whatever game you were playing for the controller you had (as is the case with typical controllers and typical games) - but this is not how guitar games work, as you well know.

Given that there is no such standard, the reason controllers from the various games don't interchange reliably is simple - as there's no standard, there's nothing compelling each developer to use the same conventions (the same way of recognising a compatible controller, the same set of buttons for the frets and for strumming, etc). And - as is invariably the case where there's no standard to force interoperable behaviour - everyone winds up *not* using the same conventions.

As long as there is no standard then the 'blame' for this has to be split equally between all companies in the market, you can't get away with trying to blame someone else for it entirely. You can't sit there and say "well, they should have used the same conventions as us!" if you didn't make any attempt to codify those conventions into a standard. You're all in a position to sit down together and actually define a meaningful standard, you all didn't do so, and therefore you all should take the blame for not having done so.

The fact that you put misleading stickers on RB's box just exacerbates the portion of the blame you should take.

[vectorz]

Furthermore, what's the excuse for GH1 & 2 PS2 controllers not working? They also show up as Microphones instead of guitars, and they are fully open standard.

[Eman311]

removed for longness.

It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.

[Frepin]

sean, with all due respect, an answer straight out of the PR department isn't going to satisfy anyone. Harmonix's own marketing material was quite misleading in the case of the PS3, and the last thing anybody wants to hear is it's everybody elses fault but yours.

[StrangeDays]

Oh cool...AdamWill....you make videogames?

Sounds like Sean/HMX is trying to be fair?

[Se7enLawliet]

Who gives a damn who's to blame.

Okay, so clearly HMX is willing to patch RB so it'll run Octane's LP controller. But what about Octane? Have they said anything about willing to work with you guys?

[TheVoiceOfReason]

Sean,

Then please explain to us two things:

1) The rampant reports (some from Harmonix execs) stating that the GH3 controllers would work without making any distinction between PS3 and 360

and most importantly...

2) What is the purpose OFFICIALLY of the stand alone game that was released this week? Who can play it since there are no standalone controllers on the market?

PS> Your "superior" support system is raising Javascript errors all over the place....

[metalfenix]

It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.

And I also agree with you and Sean about the open standars on the controllers, and RO had 90% of the fault on the LP compatibility issue BUT, why there are standalone versions of the game for PS3? At least with PS3, there are no more guitar controllers other than the strat from RB and the Les Paul from GH 3, so we are supposed to play with what? the sixaxis? I would like to know an official statement about this.

I was about to buy a standalone version of the game and use the LP of my GH3, fortunately I managed to find the bucks and changed the preorder for the full bundle, but this matter still drives me mad.

[zanth99]

It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.


Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.

[33percentgod]

You hear that Harmonix? That's me on my knees begging for you to get Rock Band's guitar to work with Guitar Hero 1,2 and 80's.

[AdamWill]

"Oh cool...AdamWill....you make videogames?"

no (I work for a Linux company, as it happens :>), I just have a bit of experience of this from mixing GuitarFreaks / Guitar Hero controllers. As I said, the fact that guitar games use arbitrary 'odd' control motions (holding down an axis or two permanently) to recognize controllers is fairly obvious by comparing the behaviour of the controllers in those two games, and has been more extensively looked into by people doing homebrew controllers (there's various discussions at bemanistyle.com , if you're interested).

to make it clear, I'm not trying to dump on HMX specifically here. As I wrote, the blame for this should properly be shared equally between HMX and RO (and, if you care, Bemani). I just disagree with HMX waving the 'open standards' line and trying to duck all responsibility. As I wrote, there *is* no meaningful standard for guitar game controller conventions. "The controller has to map controls that exist on the first-party controller for the console" is not a standard, just a simple technical limitation. *Of course* it does.

[Emowii]

Here is what I don't get. Why wouldn't Harmonix do everything it can to patch this right now? They stand to make money by doing so. I have two friends who own GH3 for their PS3 right this second. They want to buy the Rock Band disc, but they're not interested in buying any extra peripherals to do so. So, if a patch comes through to make the guitars that they already own work with this game, they're gonna both spend $60 on Harmonix's game the next day.


See how that works? Why the hell wouldn't you guys try and make this happen ASAP? No, you might think a lot of people are just gonna go buy your guitars whenever the hell you get around to releasing them, but that is not the case. People who already own GH3 aren't always gonna want to spend another $100 to buy your game, plus a new guitar to play the game. They've already got a guitar that works great, and they're ready to buy your game. Make it happen, and they give you their money.

[deathinc]

Sean, Two Words: Cop Out.

Either get the controllers working, now, or start shipping more guitars/drums to the store now.

[AdamWill]

Here is what I don't get. Why wouldn't Harmonix do everything it can to patch this right now?

I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.

What I don't understand is why they weren't working on this since the release of GH3 to have a patch ready *at release time*. You can't tell me no-one at HMX thought to buy a copy of GH3 and check out whether the guitar worked.

[KingThorn]

I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.

Note there's nothing in that announcement that says "Yes, we're working on it. You'll have a functional guitar as soon as we make sure it works properly."

I'll be happy to give Harmonix my $60, but not on the 'hope' that everyone will work together and get a patch out, and not on the word that a patch is on the way. When the patch is here and works, I'll buy.

No, I'm not buying the bundle. No, I'm not buying it for the 360, though I was sorely tempted. It's the idea that we were ensured that the GH3 controller would in fact work with Rock Band, and then all of a sudden "Nope, not gonna work. Sorry. Oh, did we mention that the 360 GH3 controller DOES work with our game? Tough luck, chum. Can't return opened software. Thanks for the money, perhaps you can use the CD as a drink coaster until January, when we'll announce a shortage of guitars. Address all complaints to Red Octane."

[lynx44]

I agree 100% with what AdamWill is saying. If it truly is an open standard, post a link to it on this board, then get to work on patching the game so that the Les Paul will work on Rock Band. Even if they didn't follow the standard, it was already at minimum hinted that the guitar would work, and you'll make more money anyway. I just don't understand companies like this, why do they want to both make their customer unhappy AND lose money. It makes me so irritated, I'm sure its not THAT difficult, and if it is, please explain why because I have a hard time believing that it is.

And before anyone gives me a "are you a programmer" line, yes I am in fact a software developer. I don't have a lot of experience with hardware but I have some and its all pretty simple really.

-Matt

[Will-san]

If any controller or peripheral manufacturer wants their product to work with Rock Band, we promise to work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.



This is encouraging but it sounds like you are waiting for EA or Red Octane or whatever to call you and say "hey here is the code you need to make our controller work". It is certainly possible that the "Other Periperal Manufacturer" is to blame for this but if Harmix really cares about their customers they will take a much more proactive approach.

How about adopting a position more allong the lines of: "If any controller or peripheral manufacturer is willing to let their product work with Rock Band, we promise to pester them mercilessly so that we can work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

BTW does any one know if the PS3 RB controller works with Guitar Hero III?

[Quastor]

It's always amazing how people can simplify a complex problem to justify their views.

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Harmonix would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they simple patched RB without RedOctane's permission/request. I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software. If Harmonix were just create a patch, they could be infringing on RedOctane's IP and get sued. In a situation like this, it's better to tread carefully. I'm sure Harmonix has spent the past two days trying to reach out to Activision and RedOctane to allow them to do this. My best advice is to start pressuring Activision/RedOctane to allow these two games to play nice.

And for those of you who keep pointing to the 360 Les Paul compatiblity, I again point out the common denominator of GH2 on the 360. Harmonix still owns the code to that game, which includes interfacing with the X-Plorer. Both GH3 and RB are based off this same standard. And remember, the 360 controller standard is not the same as the PS3 controller standard. That's comparing apples to oranges.

Of course, every time I try to throw some common sense into the fray, I just get ignored. So continue *****ing, I guess.

[metalfenix]

Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.

I couldn't agree more. I'm still awaiting for an official response about the standalone PS3 version and the no availability of guitar controllers besides the LP right now. Now the people who pre-ordered and bought the standalone version will surely have a nice blue-ray box decorating besides their PS3 until february where the actual RB guitars will be sold separately.

[Quastor]

Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.

What? Do you really think RedOctane thought, "Hmm, those Harmonix guys are creating a game similar to ours that everyone is viewing as direct competition to our franchise. Let's send them over one of our demo guitars so they can try it out on their own game!"

Please. Harmonix had to get a hold of the Les Paul the same way everyone else did. Best Buy.

[StrangeDays]

Good point Quastor! I'm sure with both these companies trying to outdo one another, it's hard for them to both come to the table and agree on a standard format. Also, since they are competing, if they ripped code from one another, that would be a BIG no no.

Joystiq just posted a guitar compatibility guide. Turns out RB guitar doesn't work on GH3, so it sounds like maybe Activision doesn't want to play nice? Not sure.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/11/21/joystiq-holidaze-the-guitar-compatibility-guide/

Can't we all just get along !?!?!?!

[AdamWill]

"I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software."

I highly doubt that. It's hard to imagine a patent could exist that would *allow* Harmonix / EA to develop a distribute a guitar-based rhythm action game using a guitar peripheral which does not differ from Guitar Hero's in any particularly significant way, but *prevent* Harmonix / EA from allowing the GH3 controller to work with RB. Unless Neversoft / Activision went to the trouble of developing a completely proprietary input system for the GH3 guitar (rather than simply having it map the standard controls), which somehow I doubt they would do.

All the significant patents to do simply with making a guitar-based rhythm action game belong to Konami, as is detailed (rather interestingly) here:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16014

[Vorpar]

Joystiq just posted a guitar compatibility guide. Turns out RB guitar doesn't work on GH3, so it sounds like maybe Activision doesn't want to play nice? Not sure.



Have you read the user agreement on GH3? They revoke the license if you don't use their LP.

[Emowii]

What? Do you really think RedOctane thought, "Hmm, those Harmonix guys are creating a game similar to ours that everyone is viewing as direct competition to our franchise. Let's send them over one of our demo guitars so they can try it out on their own game!"

Please. Harmonix had to get a hold of the Les Paul the same way everyone else did. Best Buy.

Yeah, but aren't you getting the point here. GH3 has been out for a month now. Harmonix could have easily gone and bought the game a month ago and told everyone with the PS3 version that the Les Paul was not gonna work with Rock Band. All this mess would have been avoided.


Unfortunately they did everything but that, and I don't think it was by mistake. I am beginning to believe they knowingly let people walk over that cliff of buying the Rock Band game disc, only to realize they were not gonna have a guitar to play that game with.

[JackBNimble]

So there is something I don't understand here.Why is the situation like this?

XBOX 360

Xplorer + Les Paul + Fender Strat all work for Rock Band?But RB does not work for GH series,that's fine.RO/activision allow LP and Xplorer.

So my question is, What's up with the 360?Why can you use all GH controllers with RB on the 360 and not with the PS3?It seems to me that EA/HMX have locked out the LP and SG for the PS3.I could go to any store and buy usb adaptor for my SG but that will not work either.So it looks to me like HMX has locked out all controllers to the PS3 other then the Strat.WHY?

Sony and MS should make a manditory controller scheme for these types of games that game makers can not deviate from.This should not have been left up to the game makers to decide what controllers work for each system.I don't see how this is acceptable to SCEA to sit and watch game makers making Sony customers buy all these controllers to play rythem games,when the 360 does not have this prob.

I hope SCEA takes some action!!!

[thrdeye]

I try to stay out of this stuff, but....

From the posts I've seen, sounds like Sean is shootin straight....he's been in the community from the beginning and has always been involved.

It also sounds like they want the Les Paul to work. Having the Les paul work with RB benefits both organizations at this point and hurts neither, so that's why I truly believe they want it to be compatible. If you don't believe his post, I guess that is your decision to make.

However, as I've stated mulitple times, the Les Paul is a big laggy turd, and I wouldn't use one even if it were compatible.

[ThePaska]

I hope stand alone guitars come out soon, this GH III guitar really is terrible. Simply because it has a detachable neck (dumb idea!) and so the buttons often do not work at all, also it being wireless creates all kinds of lag that I just cannot deal with. So here's hoping that I can just spring for another Rock Band guitar ASAP! :cool:

[rworne]

It's always amazing how people can simplify a complex problem to justify their views.

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Harmonix would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they simple patched RB without RedOctane's permission/request. I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software. If Harmonix were just create a patch, they could be infringing on RedOctane's IP and get sued. In a situation like this, it's better to tread carefully. I'm sure Harmonix has spent the past two days trying to reach out to Activision and RedOctane to allow them to do this. My best advice is to start pressuring Activision/RedOctane to allow these two games to play nice.


I'm tending to give some weight to this. If you read the opening legalese on GHIII, they specifically state that ONLY an Activision-supplied guitar controller or a gamepad supplied with a console can be used with the game. I'd look with suspicion at any company that makes claims like this.

So they want to shut out 3rd parties with this little clause? I'd like to think that Activision could not care less what you by their guitars for, but Activision and EA are competitors after all. If they can screw the competition, they will.

BTW: Where are all the GHIII guitar controller knock-offs?

[mltdwn]

I don't understand why you guys don't just buy additional RB guitars. You can buy them direct for EA.... A tip, it involves going through the support system.

[BathTub]

I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.

What I don't understand is why they weren't working on this since the release of GH3 to have a patch ready *at release time*. You can't tell me no-one at HMX thought to buy a copy of GH3 and check out whether the guitar worked.

Yeah that's part I find quite unbelievable at the moment.

[AdamWill]

I try to stay out of this stuff, but....

From the posts I've seen, sounds like Sean is shootin straight....he's been in the community from the beginning and has always been involved.


It's not a question of whether you 'buy' Sean or what personal opinion you have on his integrity / trustworthiness or whatever. It's simply that he's saying - or rather, what he is being asked to say, as I'm 100% sure that post is not Sean's own words - is a gigantic pile of baloney, as I explained in detail. None of what I wrote is opinion, it's a simple clarification of the well-known definitions of very commonly used terms. There *is no* 'open standard' for guitar-based rhythm action controllers. Harmonix's attempts to muddy the issue with this 'open standard' stuff is just hand-waving. As long as there *is* no standard, it's more sensible to presume the controllers *won't* interact than to presume that they *will*.

[TuRDMaN]

I don't understand why you guys don't just buy additional RB guitars. You can buy them direct for EA.... A tip, it involves going through the support system.
Not in Canada you can't. Just marvellous....

[Rock_Starman]

You people wondering why they didn't do anything....Rock Band went gold/started production on Nov. 5th,GH 3 released Oct. 28th.

Now I'm terrible at math but I believe that's only 7 days apart. They would've had to find any possibly legalities,find out what makes the GH 3 guitar work and then recode the game and probably would've only had 5 days to do it,sent the finished game on the 6th day and then start production. Based on all the disasters around here it didn't go so well anyway.

[TripleH]

Okay, so even if all of this legal stuff is true and it's illegal to make a patch for Guitar A to work on Game B. Shouldn't it be perfectly legal to make a "Controller Map" addition to RB so that we can in essence make our own patch for whatever guitar we want to use?

Nearly all of my PC games have this feature, so I can use whatever controller I wish. All it takes is a little effort on my part to match the buttons on the controller to the desired controls on the game.

[BathTub]

No, but it gives them 20+ days to go to the store, buy a copy of Guitar Hero 3, and try it, then finding it doesn't work, tell people about it.

20 odd days to decide how to proceed, and tell people about it so they could make an informed purchase.

Do you really think that no one at harmonix played Guitar Hero 3 in the last month?

Now before answering that, read this interview: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2007/10/26/harmonix-on-guitar-hero-iii-bittersweet-like-seeing-kids-off-to-college/

[SmokaCola]

Do you really think that no one at harmonix played Guitar Hero 3 in the last month?

Now before answering that, read...

No one from HMX played GH3, That's totally fake.

[Catalytic]

At this point, who is at fault is not an issue. Yes, it would have been good if someone had said that the GH3 LP would not be compatible with RB (whether it had been RO, Harmonix or Sony, someone surely knew and they knew before Friday/Saturday when the news came out). Why and how this was not revealed sooner is awful; all parties involved should be ashamed.

The best option now is to send a polite, well thought out letter/email to Red Octane, Harmonix and Sony to encourage each company to find a way to alleviate this situation. As a consumer, you have power in the form of your wallet. I have already sent such emails to all three companies.

Yes, it seems hopeless that such letters might have any impact, but if enough people do such, it forces a solution that is in everyone's best interests. Ranting and raving (swearing and cursing) on these forums is not going to get anything done. I am as upset as the rest of you are, but nothing will get done by just appealing to Harmonix on these boards. Your best option is to appeal to each company in turn to solve the problem. Again, you do have some power in this situation and if you are upset then use that power.

[Credge]

Catalytic, you are very wrong about ranting on forums, especially ones moderated and viewed by employees of the game creator. You'd be surprised at how much more they learn about a product from forums rather than e-mails. Such things got 24 character slots put in for all players of Hellgate: London rather quickly... which was something that was originally going to be subscriber only content... as was the elite difficulty.

Now, call me a stickler, but from my past experiences with EA's products, I have found that all of them over the last few years (minus a few sports games) have been terribly rushed and have bad quality checks. Although they are only producing the game, they seem to place certain dead lines that simply can't be met. I think the same can be applied here.

Why did they release a single copy in stores? Surely they assumed the GH3 controllers would be able to be used. If they knew this was going to happen then why didn't they recall the single copies before they hit shelves? You can bet your arse that they bought GH3, or at the very least had a GH3 controller laying around somewhere in the studio. Surely there was SOME form of communication between the two competing games, otherwise why would they assume it worked?

Further, they already had available GH2 controls and knew that GH2 controller does not work with the PS3. I'm very skeptical about all of this.

I think they only really tested the 360 version as, it seems, every single video review is using the 360 version with a guitar hero 3 controller, or a PS3 version with the strat. While this isn't a big deal for me, as I despise the GH buttons, it's certainly left me with a lot of doubt about the product.

[ShadowOfEden]

We also want you to know that we are working to get stand-alone Rock Band Guitars, Drums and Microphones to the market as soon as possible. In addition to rounding out the band with a second guitar, Rock Band supports guitar vs. guitar, drum vs. drum and vocal vs. vocal modes.


Then, at least the stand alone guitar should be released at the same time as the game to enjoy the full experience of a band we were promised. End of january/early february, as it was already announced is way too far, especially since we will be missing the dozen of holiday parties.

[bucket bear]

Has anyone heard if Red Octane is commenting on all of this? I bought GHIII on release day for the 360. And I bought Rock Band and GHIII for the PS3 on Rock Band release date. I would hate to think that I bought a second copy of GHIII for nothing. As far as who is to blame, I really don't care, as long as the problem gets resolved.

[Catalytic]

Catalytic, you are very wrong about ranting on forums, especially ones moderated and viewed by employees of the game creator. You'd be surprised at how much more they learn about a product from forums rather than e-mails. Such things got 24 character slots put in for all players of Hellgate: London rather quickly... which was something that was originally going to be subscriber only content... as was the elite difficulty.

I think the forums are a good place to inform one company ... but there are at least three companies (if not four or five if you count EA and Neversoft, but I don't think they have anything to do with getting this fixed) that are part of the problem and needed to come to a solution. Forums are great for informing the creators about certain issues (e.g. glitches, changes you would like made, etc.), but the compatibility of the LP is not just Harmonix's problem, it is all of the party's problems. And at this point complaining that they should have known ahead of time is not doing anyone any good (while I agree this had to be known well before Friday/Saturday).

So, do not take me as claiming that forums are useless, only that posting on the forums here does not address all of the party's that need to know your disatisfaction and your expectations for their products and how you spend your money.

[thrdeye]

It's not a question of whether you 'buy' Sean or what personal opinion you have on his integrity / trustworthiness or whatever. It's simply that he's saying - or rather, what he is being asked to say, as I'm 100% sure that post is not Sean's own words - is a gigantic pile of baloney, as I explained in detail. None of what I wrote is opinion, it's a simple clarification of the well-known definitions of very commonly used terms. There *is no* 'open standard' for guitar-based rhythm action controllers. Harmonix's attempts to muddy the issue with this 'open standard' stuff is just hand-waving. As long as there *is* no standard, it's more sensible to presume the controllers *won't* interact than to presume that they *will*.

Well, all I'm saying is that it seems like HMX wants to resolve this and most people here are being whiney *****es about it and acting like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka.

[KingThorn]

Well, all I'm saying is that it seems like HMX wants to resolve this and most people here are being whiney *****es about it and acting like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka.

Does it? What, precisely, are they doing about it other than saying "it's the other guy's fault?"

[AdamWill]

You people wondering why they didn't do anything....Rock Band went gold/started production on Nov. 5th,GH 3 released Oct. 28th.

Now I'm terrible at math but I believe that's only 7 days apart. They would've had to find any possibly legalities,find out what makes the GH 3 guitar work and then recode the game and probably would've only had 5 days to do it,sent the finished game on the 6th day and then start production. Based on all the disasters around here it didn't go so well anyway.

I asked why they weren't *working on a patch* to be released simultaneously with the box (so that it installed the first time you started the game), not why they didn't pull and update the actual boxes.

[AdamWill]

thrdeye: sure, if they truly want to resolve it, that's great. What I'm calling them out on is their attempt to avoid any kind of blame and throw it all on RO.

[Ultrace]

sean, with all due respect, an answer straight out of the PR department isn't going to satisfy anyone. Harmonix's own marketing material was quite misleading in the case of the PS3, and the last thing anybody wants to hear is it's everybody elses fault but yours.
And people wonder why HMX isn't commenting all over about this problem and that. When they do, people just spit on it because it's not quite the answer they want to hear, even if it's the truth.

Unless anyone here happens to be a PS3 developer, then I would stress that they have no idea how complex or not fixing this issue is, or whether there is a legitimate problem with the way RO developed the LP. If you are in fact a PS3 developer, feel free to pop up and tell us all how you easily fix the problem.

[BobsRevenge]

I would just really like a straight answer. Just a "We are working on a patch." or "We won't be able to get it to work." or even a "We are looking into the possibilities of getting it to work."

Not a "We support an open standard." type of comment that is sidestepping the issue.

My Father picked up Guitar Hero 3 for the PS3 because he was under the impression that it would work with RB, and he even did his own research on this. I feel bad that he went through all that effort to get **** on for it.

Harmonix, I know its thanksgiving and you're not going to answer to any of these comments today. But as soon as possible, give us a straight answer and get into the technicalities of it. We aren't stupid. To me I see the GH3 PS3 guitar working with the same standard as the RB one does, it just uses a different configuration to do that. RB needs to support that configuration also, if only for parity between console versions. Just enable RB to see that the GH3 LP is being used on the PS3 and then use an alternate set of instructions for it to work. I understand that that makes for more work for you, but you really should be striving for parity between all the versions. We all pay the same amount for it.

[ScreamingSlave]

The real issue here is getting stand alone instruments on the PS3. Even if the GH3 guitar did work with RB, that only comes in a bundle for $100 and won't be sold separately for at least 4-6 months. That doesn't leave people many options.

[Xervai]

Not a "We support an open standard." type of comment that is sidestepping the issue.

My Father picked up Guitar Hero 3 for the PS3 because he was under the impression that it would work with RB, and he even did his own research on this. I feel bad that he went through all that effort to get **** on for it.




Believe me, we ALL did our "own research on this". We were just lead to believe otherwise. I too want to know. You going to help us, or not? I don't want to keep thinking I can keep this Les Paul around if I can trade it in for something else. I've tried PS2 guitars, the les paul, adapters.... Same problem. I don't know what 3rd party controllers you are talking about, but if anyone actually finds one, I'll go buy the damn thing.

I enjoy the game a lot. VERY much. I just want a straight answer on the controller deal.

[bucket bear]

I don't know how much this means but, I had to call today and get a replacement for my guitar..while on the line with the tech support I asked if there was any plan to remedy the problem with the GHIII guitar and he told me that a patch was currently being worked on and would be released asap...even though he had no idea when that would be... Maybe this is true or the poor sap who had to work on Thanksgiving doesn't know what's going on either.

[brianwcu]

I don't know how much this means but, I had to call today and get a replacement for my guitar..while on the line with the tech support I asked if there was any plan to remedy the problem with the GHIII guitar and he told me that a patch was currently being worked on and would be released asap...even though he had no idea when that would be... Maybe this is true or the poor sap who had to work on Thanksgiving doesn't know what's going on either.

Or its what he was told to say if anyone asks :eek: wouldn't surprise me, I've worked in call center before... /shivers

[Alphadown99]

BTW does any one know if the PS3 RB controller works with Guitar Hero III?

Yeah, no, it won't work with GHIII. THAT is Activision's fault. Like HMX has said, they support the standard that GHII for the 360 was based on, and obviously, RO/Activision changed that 'standard' so, no, to answer your question, the RB guitar does NOT work on GHIII for the PS3 or 360, for that matter.:mad:


ALSO

Check this out. Right off EA's support website:



We've stated many times that Rock Band supports an open standard. What does that mean? It means that Rock Band supports the same system that drives a basic PS3 or Xbox 360 controller or peripheral.

If your controller or peripheral doesn't work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn't support the standard controller configuration. In other words, if a peripheral or controller doesn't work with Rock Band, then the manufacturer has done something to prevent it from working with Rock Band by changing how the device "talks" to either a PS3 or Xbox 360.

If any controller or peripheral manufacturer wants their product to work with Rock Band, we promise to work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

We also want you to know that we are working to get stand-alone Rock Band Guitars, Drums and Microphones to the market as soon as possible. In addition to rounding out the band with a second guitar, Rock Band supports guitar vs. guitar, drum vs. drum and vocal vs. vocal modes.

We want you to enjoy Rock Band and have set up a superior customer service program. If you have any concerns about Rock Band, please visit: http://support.ea.com/rockband


LASTLY


I don't understand why you guys don't just buy additional RB guitars. You can buy them direct for EA.... A tip, it involves going through the support system.

Please elaborate. I would like to buy an additional guitar direct. And SOON!!

[MF-PO'd]

"If your controller or peripheral doesn't work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn't support the standard controller configuration."

So, I guess Sony doesn't support the standard controller configuration because their own Sixaxis doesn't even work with Rock Band? WTF?

For a "standard", it doesn't seem very standard to me when presently ONLY Rock Band peripherals work.

[Se7enLawliet]

"If your controller or peripheral doesn't work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn't support the standard controller configuration."

So, I guess Sony doesn't support the standard controller configuration because their own Sixaxis doesn't even work with Rock Band? WTF?

For a "standard", it doesn't seem very standard to me when presently ONLY Rock Band peripherals work.

EXACTLY. The Guitar Hero 3 LP guitar is doing what it's suppose to be doing. It's being recognized as a "standard controller". The sixaxis does the exact same thing.

Whatever the hell setup Hermonix used to make the Guitars/Drums get recognized must be screwing all the actual "standard" controllers that don't include the special coding or signal.

All they would have to do is reowork the game so you manually select which instrument you play and the game doesn't try and "force" you into any specific game mode (basically let all the instruments be playable via sixaxis, they configuring the buttons to match up with the LP's).

If LP was truly not "standard" then Rock Band shouldn't even be able to recognize it, but the fact that the game thinks it's a sixaxis more or less confirms that Hermonix (or EA) is pulling crap out of their ass and smearing it all over our eyes with this "not standard" bull.

[monoxidehektik]

the only guitar they guaranteed to work was the xplorer. look it up

[Captiosus77]

LASTLY
Please elaborate. I would like to buy an additional guitar direct. And SOON!!

What mltdwn is saying about getting a second guitar is: Use the support page and pay the 20 for expedited shipping then never return the other guitar. I don't trust or condone such actions as you never know - EA may say "the original guitar was never received" and then slam your CC with a big charge.

[ezevthokie]

What mltdwn is saying about getting a second guitar is: Use the support page and pay the 20 for expedited shipping then never return the other guitar. I don't trust or condone such actions as you never know - EA may say "the original guitar was never received" and then slam your CC with a big charge.

I think it was posted on the other board that they charge you $100 for the 2nd guitar. Thats a lil too much for my likings, esp when I have a Les Paul sitting beside my TV, waiting to thrash on Rock Band.

[Gryffindor]

The Fender guitar that comes with Rock Band is a PIECE OF CRAP. You have to press so hard on all of the buttons that my kids refuse to even pick it up.

If they could get the Guitar Hero guitars to work with the game we'd keep it.

Personally, I'm feeling REALLY RIPPED OFF at this point considering I paid over $180 (incl tax) for this piece of junk game.

OH - and the drums fall apart. Nice job - I'll never buy another one of your games.

[Finiel]

Acknowledgement that there are no other guitars available (Which this garbage statement doesn't even do) should have come before release, not after. I feel really sorry for the people who bought $60 coasters (the standalone game) at least I can play the gimped version.
That statement makes it sound like we should be able to play guitar with our sixaxis.

[wes_jett2008]

To the guy a few posts up who said the drums fall apart...you must have some destructive kids,The freaking demo at my walmart is still working flawlessly.And the guitar is so easy to use its crazy,My mom even played it....You barely even have to press the buttons to work it.

I think people are just to quick to brush off somthing so quickly,Everything has problems...wait for them to get sorted out and stop acting like children,since the game came out the level of maturity on this forum has become downright discusting,Stop whining and give it alittle time...these people have probably spent a year and a half of their lives working on this game to get it right,and you all want them to fix some in a week...durring the holiday's too...alittle patience goes along way.

/endrant

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Its common sense people. You all that believed your PS3 LP would work with RB are foolish. Why would two competing companies make their gear interchangeable? Idiocy.

[LBFire]

I am able to use my 360 Live Camera on my PS3 for video chat. That's 2 competing company products that should not be interchangeable but are(not for all features though). Doesn't seem like idiocy to me. There are 3rd party guns that work with Namco games and there are games not made by Namco that work with the Guncon, so I know that this whole thing can be sorted out. I realize that light guns and guitars are not the same thing, but if the guns can beinterchangeable then there is no reason why the guitars shouldn't be.

[MF-PO'd]

Its common sense people. You all that believed your PS3 LP would work with RB are foolish. Why would two competing companies make their gear interchangeable? Idiocy.

I guess that's why the 360 GH LP works with the 360 RB then... They are competing companies, yet their gear DOES work in another game on that system. Come on. Even by Harmonix' own admission in this post, they would be willing to get anyone's guitar work in their game. :rolleyes:

[IbanezBassist_v2]

I guess that's why the 360 GH LP works with the 360 RB then... They are competing companies, yet their gear DOES work in another game on that system. Come on. Even by Harmonix' own admission in this post, they would be willing to get anyone's guitar work in their game. :rolleyes:


I'm sorry...I was unaware of that. But Harmonix being willing to fix the problem and being able to are two different stories. There are two sides to this problem, if you want your LPs to work with RB, maybe you guys should be bombarding the GH board rather than the RB board. Does the Strat work with GHIII? No? Then go ***** to RO about that!

Harmonix busted their ass to get this game to you people, and now all you do is ***** that another companies peripherals don't work. Sounds like a nit-picky issue that someone is just looking to ***** about.

[lawman118]

I have to agree on the idea that both HMX and RO/GH3 should be working together so that their guitars work with one another on both games. They might as well, everyone's already bought both package deals, they made their money, now let us play 2 player on them.

Also if HMX is so open on the controller issue, then why can't we play GH1,2,80's on the PS3 now with the RB Fender. Didn't HMX make/own those games too.

If nothing else for all 5 games involved, why not use the idea/patch of actually setting up what each button does, X=Green and so on, in a controller options menu. Other games let you change the function of each button to suit style/comfort of game play.

Or someone needs to develop a 3rd party guitar that will allow users to play all five games on the PS3. Heck you could even have a 5 way toggle if need be pending which game is being played. But I would assume a 3 way toggle would work since the SG controller does play GH1,2,80's. Thats a good million dollar idea for someone with the know how?

[MF-PO'd]

I'm sorry...I was unaware of that. But Harmonix being willing to fix the problem and being able to are two different stories. There are two sides to this problem, if you want your LPs to work with RB, maybe you guys should be bombarding the GH board rather than the RB board. Does the Strat work with GHIII? No? Then go ***** to RO about that!

Harmonix busted their ass to get this game to you people, and now all you do is ***** that another companies peripherals don't work. Sounds like a nit-picky issue that someone is just looking to ***** about.

What Harmonix needs to do is open up the game to actually at least allow the standard Sixaxis controller to work. Sony's own controller can't even be used! If they did that, it's possible these other guitars may work. They can do that on their own without the help of Red Octane.

The strat not being compatible with GH3 was announced PRIOR to release. There's a huge difference there. People could actually do their research and adjust their purchase planning accordingly. That same research lead everyone to believe the LP would work in RB (which it does in the 360). People absolutely have a right to ***** about this and complain until there's a solution. It's not being nit-picky. I'm here with NO way to play this game! My LP doesn't work, and there's not anything on the market I can buy instead. I can handle workarounds, but the standalone version right has no value what so ever.

[lawman118]

I just dont understand why the guitar for xbox works GH2,GH3, and RB considering theres different companies involved, HMX and RO, but they don't work for the PS3. In fact you have to have 3 seperate guitars for all three games, two of which are made by the same company.

[ezevthokie]

HMX should patch the game to work with the old guitars they made, release an adapter, and all is solved. I'd buy an old guitar today if they came out with this. Guess we won't hear anything until next week.

[lawman118]

right now I have four guitars sitting around 2 for PS2 (GH1,2,80's) 2 for PS3 1 for GH3 and 1 for RB. Its crazy and the way things are now with no patches I would need 2 more to be able to play 2 player in both PS3 games, which are not even avalible.

[MF-PO'd]

HMX should patch the game to work with the old guitars they made, release an adapter, and all is solved. I'd buy an old guitar today if they came out with this. Guess we won't hear anything until next week.

I would certainly buy an old guitar too.

Hopefully we'll get some more answers next week after the tryptophan wears off. :D

[Se7enLawliet]

I would certainly buy an old guitar too.

Hopefully we'll get some more answers next week after the tryptophan wears off. :D

Hahahah we wish.....

From a professional standpoint they already covered their ass. They said "We made it open standard." and "We're willing to fix it." At this point it's a waiting game. What is Red Octane/activision/etc going to do? They basically got called out and made into bad guys even though Harmonix was the one that made the PS3 version so shoddy. Red Octane can now either take the blow (which won't be giant. I mean PS3 is dead last right now) or they can address the issue and save themselves.

[metalfenix]

Its common sense people. You all that believed your PS3 LP would work with RB are foolish. Why would two competing companies make their gear interchangeable? Idiocy.

And common sense dictates that they should not release the standalone ps3 versions until february, where the separate music controllers will be released. If they knew that the GH3 LP of PS3 is not following "the Open standard" why the hell they did released this version? for the PS3 Red Octane released ONLY the full bundle for Guitar hero 3 because they were aware that there weren't any compatible guitars at the time.

[imagine]

Well as I'm sure you guessed by now the fact the standalone ps3 has no controller surely going to spawn false advertising complaints and most end consumers regardless of who is at fault are going to hop onto the legal band wagon!

[Keebler]

I just dont understand why the guitar for xbox works GH2,GH3, and RB considering theres different companies involved, HMX and RO, but they don't work for the PS3. In fact you have to have 3 seperate guitars for all three games, two of which are made by the same company.

GH2 360 was published by Activision. Thus, they implemented blocks to prevent other guitars from working.

[bmore007]

Seems like where Harmonix messed up was not making you be able to use a regular controller as any instrument you may want to use it as. Seems like if they had an option that aloud that then perhaps most all of these other ps2 SG's and ps3 les paul would work. For saying Rock Band uses open source it's not very open to even using a ps3 controller as a guitar. So in essence it's not open.

[Terranova]

Seems like where Harmonix messed up was not making you be able to use a regular controller as any instrument you may want to use it as. Seems like if they had an option that aloud that then perhaps most all of these other ps2 SG's and ps3 les paul would work. For saying Rock Band uses open source it's not very open to even using a ps3 controller as a guitar. So in essence it's not open.

i'm not totally sure that would be the case, yes the LP is seen as a Sixaxis controller by Rock band but whether that means it would play as a guitar if HMX allowed the Sixaxis to be used is unknown, the SG with adapters are seen as controllers but they still don't allow them to be used as a guitar at least for GH2 and 80's, it could very well be the same thing for Rock band .

[IbanezBassist_v2]

And common sense dictates that they should not release the standalone ps3 versions until february, where the separate music controllers will be released. If they knew that the GH3 LP of PS3 is not following "the Open standard" why the hell they did released this version? for the PS3 Red Octane released ONLY the full bundle for Guitar hero 3 because they were aware that there weren't any compatible guitars at the time.

I didn't even know that this was the problem. I thought the problem here in this topic was compatibility issues.

What exactly does the standalone version have to do with this?

Secondly, Harmonix never stated with 100% assurance that the LP would work with RB. Hence the "May or may not work" Statement. Show me where it was stated that the LP would be guaranteed to work with RB and I'll eat crow.

So let me get this straight, you are aware of the issue of it possibly not working, yet still you buy the game. Then when it doesn't work everyone comes aboard and reams HMX because you (everyone that has an issue) took a chance on something that wasn't completely confirmed to begin with.

So who wants to start suing the Lottery? Because I may or may not win. Sure enough, that completely solidifies my case for a win.

[NotorietyH]

What exactly does the standalone version have to do with this?.

Well they sold a stand alone version of the game when not even the sixaxis controller works with it, so understandably people feel a bit pissed off at that. I don't mind too much waiting for a few months for a bass guitar, but I'm getting the bundle so it's not too huge an issue. But you're up the proverbial creek if you buy the stand-alone PS3 version.

I'm more pissed off at IGN for their guide in which they didn't bother saying that they didn't have a PS3 version to test and instead implied that the Les Paul would work with the PS3 version. Which led me to buy GHIII almost solely to use the guitar as the bass.

[MF-PO'd]

I know I posted this in the other thread, but maybe hmxsean will look here and comment on the use (or lack of) the Sixaxis in the game.

From EA:

-----------------------------
Greetings,

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts. At the risk of repeating myself, please take a look at the statement below:

"If your controller or peripheral doesn’t work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn’t support the standard controller configuration. In other words, if a peripheral or controller doesn’t work with Rock Band, then the manufacturer has done something to prevent it from working with Rock Band by changing how the device “talks” to either a PS3 or Xbox 360."

I honestly don't know what else to tell you. We have no control over what other manufacturers, including Sony, choose to do with and to their products.
-----------------------------

Previously, EA told me:

"You could even play Rock Band with a regular game controller if you really wanted to, but we don’t recommend it."

[TheVoiceOfReason]

I didn't even know that this was the problem. I thought the problem here in this topic was compatibility issues.

What exactly does the standalone version have to do with this?

Secondly, Harmonix never stated with 100% assurance that the LP would work with RB. Hence the "May or may not work" Statement. Show me where it was stated that the LP would be guaranteed to work with RB and I'll eat crow.

So let me get this straight, you are aware of the issue of it possibly not working, yet still you buy the game. Then when it doesn't work everyone comes aboard and reams HMX because you (everyone that has an issue) took a chance on something that wasn't completely confirmed to begin with.

So who wants to start suing the Lottery? Because I may or may not win. Sure enough, that completely solidifies my case for a win.

If you aren't aware of what the problem is, why are you posting on this forum to engage in HMX fanboism and start arguments on a thread full of people that are clearly pissed off? Do your reading. Do your research. Then come back and post.

The problem is two fold as there are two types of customers that are disgruntled about this:

1) Customer 1 read that the LP was compatible (as was reported on many gaming sites like IGN), bought the bundle and is mad that they cannot use the LP as a second guitar. This is an annoyance and a valid complaint as we were lead to believe otherwise, but is still just an annoyance.

2) Customer 2 bought the stand-alone version of the game for $60. This stand alone version of the game claims on the box to work with "most" other music controllers. There is only one other guitar on the market right now that does not come from the box bundle and it is the LP. The LP does not work, and the game does not allow you to play the guitar with a sixxaxis controller (which kind of blows open their whole "open standards" canned statement huh). The upshot for this customer is that they were advertised falsely to as they purchased a game that is impossible to play at the moment. They have the most legitimate beef as it is reasonable to assume that since the game is available separately that it must be able to be played with some peripheral available outside of the box set.

[Alphadeus]

Not for nothing but I think a lot of you are overreacting. Your suggestions to fix the problem are a bit far-fetched.

The fact of the matter is, The GH3 Les Paul was the first guitar controller to hit the scene for the PS3. It came out on october 28. As someone mentioned earlier Rock Band went gold Nov 5. There wasn't enough time to confirm that the Les Paul worked with it or not.

The reason the 360 one works is because it probably follows the standard set by the 360 X-plorer. The PS3 did not have a standard, and I don't think Activision was going to collaborate with EA to make all controllers compatible, especially considering they don't want you using any other controller in their game. Which is even more bogus than anything EA/Harmonix has done.

So theorhetically, they (Activision) could've made the PS3 guitar have a completely outrageous button mapping and it would be considered the new standard. There's really no way Harmonix could have caught this at a reasonable time. You're talking about making them go buy the game and try it out? In all honesty, why should THEY be concerned with other controllers working with their game? It was Activision/Neversoft/RedOctane that decided on the standard for PS3 guitar controllers (at least for their game- technically it's not a standard since they will block out any other non-Les Paul controller they don't make). You're putting pressure on the wrong company.

But I guess I shouldn't talk, since I don't have a PS3. But then again, I'm in the majority.

[TheVoiceOfReason]

But I guess I shouldn't talk, since I don't have a PS3. But then again, I'm in the majority.

You're right, you shouldn't.

Furthermore it's those users that bought a standalone version of the game that is quite literally unplayable that deserve to be angry and are not overreacting as you say. If Harmonix releases a game outside of a bundle, it is reasonable for the consumer to purchase it thinking that one of the other controllers on the market (the LP is the only one) will work. When the LP doesn't work, and the PS3 controller doesn't work (despite "open controller standards" or whatever other jibberish HMX is offering as an excuse), they are left with a game they cannot play and it is not overreacting to be angry about that.

[ezevthokie]

Not for nothing but I think a lot of you are overreacting. Your suggestions to fix the problem are a bit far-fetched.

The fact of the matter is, The GH3 Les Paul was the first guitar controller to hit the scene for the PS3. It came out on october 28. As someone mentioned earlier Rock Band went gold Nov 5. There wasn't enough time to confirm that the Les Paul worked with it or not.

Are you honestly trying to say that a week isn't enough time to plug in the USB dongle, boot the game and see what happens? That might be the most unbelievable non-HMX staff statement I've ever heard.

[Gryffindor]

Perhaps our guitar is broken. It doesn't register all the notes and the strum bar is so incredibly difficult (tight) to move that during fast notes there's no way to hit them all. However, I do love the way the fret buttons are laid out. If they could fix the strummer I'd be happy with the Fender.

On the compatiblity issue there is definite cause for legal action IMO. Both the game and the box state that the game is compatible with most other guitar controllers. There's only ONE other game controller and that's the ones for Guitar Hero. They flat out LIED to the public and should have made an announcement on their main web page ........ yet, do you see any such announcement on their MAIN page? Nope.

I want to see a patch and soon. You can't tell me that SOMEBODY out there doesn't have the programming skills to remedy this problem? I'd be willing to bet that some ambitious programmer, not affiliated with HMX will come up with the patch prior to HMX getting off of their asses to make one.

[Alphadeus]

First off, I'm not saying the people who bought the standalone game hoping it would work and it doesn't shouldn't be pissed. All I'm saying is that they're pointing the gun at the wrong people.

And yes, I honestly don't think a week (hell even two weeks) is enough time. I don't understand what you guys think Harmonix DOES. They made an awesome video game. I'm sure the last thing on their mind was wondering if the Les Paul works with their game. Why SHOULD they have to go out of their way to make the game compatible with the Les Paul when Guitar Hero III isn't compatible with the Rock Band Guitar? They shouldn't have to run out to the store and buy up every goddamm controller on the market BEFORE THE GAME IS RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC and check each and every one (in this case, one) for absolute functionality. You guys ask for way too much.

I can imagine it's frustrating, but it wasn't intentional and I'm positive it's being worked on. If all you're complaining about is that you want it fixed, then getting it fixed will stop your complaining. However, if you're complaining that they didn't fix it quick enough, then you're spoiled rotten and no amount of fixing will ever fix YOU.

[Gryffindor]

I'm sure the last thing on their mind was wondering if the Les Paul works with their game. Why SHOULD they have to go out of their way to make the game compatible with the Les Paul when Guitar Hero III isn't compatible with the Rock Band Guitar? They shouldn't have to run out to the store and buy up every goddamm controller on the market BEFORE THE GAME IS RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC and check each and every one (in this case, one) for absolute functionality. You guys ask for way too much.


You're missing the false advertising aspect of this entire scenario. The bundle box and the game case itself both state that it is compatible with most other guitar game controllers. It's only compatible with one - theirs. How convenient for them.

[Alphadeus]

You're missing the false advertising aspect of this entire scenario. The bundle box and the game case itself both state that it is compatible with most other guitar game controllers. It's only compatible with one - theirs. How convenient for them.

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying people are attacking the wrong company. With so little time between the release of the Les Paul and Rock Band shipping, there was no way to determine the Les Paul for the PS3 would be incompatible and have a fix in time. People are saying that Harmonix should have went out to buy a Les Paul the day it came out to determine if it was truly compatible, but I honestly think that's asking too much.

This is what I'm trying to get at. Before the PS3 Les Paul there WAS no standard for guitar controllers. RedOctane could map any PS3 button to any fret as they saw fit. There was no way Harmonix could have known what mappings they were going to use because RedOctane wasn't going to tell them.

They knew how the 360 x-plorer worked, so they could easily make it compatible with Rock Band. With this fact in mind, it's obviously not Harmonix's fault.

if PS3 games can be patched (ha i'm such a noob :p) I'm sure they'll come out with a fix. What concerns me though is from what I understand, The Les Paul registers as a Sixaxis controller, which sounds like it means complications for making it compatible. Considering the Sixaxis controller is supposed to be the controller for the Microphone. I don't know enough about this stuff, but fixing the Guitar might be harder than just remapping the buttons. It might screw with other things.

All I'm saying is they need more than a week to fix this problem. Maybe the fact that they haven't really been defending themselves is a sign they are working hard on the issue.

Right now it seems like false advertising, but in all honesty, it just seems like an honest mistake. And the blame falls more on RedOctane than Harmonix.

[Gryffindor]

Red Octane never once stated that the Rock Band guitar - nor any other guitar would work with their game. I don't see them at fault at all.

Harmonix made RB and advertised that other game controllers would work - they don't. It's that simple.

[jedbeetle]

if it were the case that just the GHIII controller didn't work, it would be easy enough to apply blame to Red Octane. But it is the case that no other guitars will work with the PS3 version of RB. It is Harmonix' issue and their responsibility to tell us what they plan to do about it. And then do it.

[TheVoiceOfReason]

Red Octane never once stated that the Rock Band guitar - nor any other guitar would work with their game. I don't see them at fault at all.

Harmonix made RB and advertised that other game controllers would work - they don't. It's that simple.

Exactly. Harmonix makes the claim on their box that the software is compatible with most music controllers that exist outside of the theirs in the bundle. Since there are only two controllers you could possibly play this with (the LP and the regular PS3 controller) and neither of them work, this advertisement is false.

If you buy the stand-alone you are COMPLETELY unable to play the game. I find it hard to believe that others on this forum can't see through their own Harmonix Fanboyism to see that it isn't right to sell someone a game that isn't playable.

The stand-alone should have been held until feb when the guitars are for sale, the fact that it was release seems to point to the fact that HMX thought the game could be played with something and someone screwed up along the way.

[AdamWill]

I'm sorry...I was unaware of that. But Harmonix being willing to fix the problem and being able to are two different stories. There are two sides to this problem, if you want your LPs to work with RB, maybe you guys should be bombarding the GH board rather than the RB board. Does the Strat work with GHIII? No? Then go ***** to RO about that!

Harmonix busted their ass to get this game to you people, and now all you do is ***** that another companies peripherals don't work. Sounds like a nit-picky issue that someone is just looking to ***** about.

Except for the rather large point that HMX / EA allowed the release of copies of the game without any peripherals - despite the fact that *there are no peripherals available that will work*. That's clearly unethical.

[AdamWill]

First off, I'm not saying the people who bought the standalone game hoping it would work and it doesn't shouldn't be pissed. All I'm saying is that they're pointing the gun at the wrong people.

Um. Why? You're saying that releasing an unplayable game was a decision made by someone other than EA or HMX?

[AdamWill]

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying people are attacking the wrong company. With so little time between the release of the Les Paul and Rock Band shipping, there was no way to determine the Les Paul for the PS3 would be incompatible and have a fix in time. People are saying that Harmonix should have went out to buy a Les Paul the day it came out to determine if it was truly compatible, but I honestly think that's asking too much.


Then they shouldn't have put the damn sticker on the box!

If you haven't got a clue whether something is true, how is it acceptable to say that it is?

Is it okay to release a game with a sticker on the front saying "IGN Review: 10/10, "Best Game EVER!" then turn around and say "oh, actually, IGN didn't review the game at all, we just kinda thought they did, sorry?"

[Alphadeus]

Fine, if you guys want to argue with me like idiots, then I can start acting like an idiot.

The box says it's compatible with "most guitar controllers" which would suggest more than half. Since there are only 2 controllers available for PS3, that's about as close to "most" as it's going to get. If someone else were to release a compatible rock band guitar, that means 66% of the available controllers would be compatible. Thus justifying the sticker on the box. It's not really false advertising because they don't specifically "SAY" it works with the GH3 Les Paul. Harmonix did not make the Les Paul so it really wasn't up to them to make it compatible. It was up to RedOctane to make it compatible. Harmonix can fix the situation by releasing a patch, which is probably the most likely of events to happen.

You guys rely too much on what people say. Just because they said it was going to be compatible doesn't mean they absolutely knew for certain it would be. The only "Defense" you guys have is the advertising on the box, and honestly it's a weak defense.

The fact of the matter is the same "False advertising" sticker was on the 360 box and it is actually true. 100% of the available 360 guitars (3 of them) all work for the 360. So they were right on that count. But I don't see you bringing that up for some reason. Hmmm.

In the case of the PS3, and I'll keep repeating myself if I have to to get it through your thick selfish brains, is that HARMONIX AND EA HAD NO IDEA WHAT REDOCTANE WAS GOING TO DO WITH THE GH3 LES PAUL. They didn't know how they were going to set up the buttons or what it was going to appear as in the game. The games came out within a month of each other, and there was no "Standard" to guitar controllers on PS3.

Once the patch comes along to fix this issue, it'll shut you up until the next big issue comes along. But at this point I hope it doesn't come. You people don't deserve it if you're going to ***** like babies until something is done.

And one other thing, I am not a Harmonix Fanboy. If anything, I'm a Guitar Hero fanboy. I absolutely loved GH3 even though it was made by Neversoft. I love all the games Harmonix has done, but that's not why I'm defending them. There are so many logics you people are avoiding because you're angry, and you want justice. Until you get justice, nothing no one can say will deter you. And once you finally get what you want, I hope you can look back on your posts and learn from them. Because all you've done so far is ***** and whine and look like fools.

I'm done with this thread.

[TheVoiceOfReason]

And one other thing, I am not a Harmonix Fanboy. If anything, I'm a Guitar Hero fanboy. I absolutely loved GH3 even though it was made by Neversoft. I love all the games Harmonix has done, but that's not why I'm defending them. There are so many logics you people are avoiding because you're angry, and you want justice. Until you get justice, nothing no one can say will deter you. And once you finally get what you want, I hope you can look back on your posts and learn from them. Because all you've done so far is ***** and whine and look like fools.

I'm done with this thread.

Please do go away. If you're not a fanboy I'm not sure why you would take all the time to go onto a thread about a problem that doesn't affect you and try to play advocate for the people that released the product when they are clearly unable or unwilling to play advocate for themselves. Your arguments and logic are flawed as well.

People are registering their complaints, frustration, and general ire to the MANUFACTURER on a MANUFACTURER sponsored bulletin board about the fact that they feel they have been treated unfairly as consumers. If HMX made it known that they were at all trying to fix the issue instead of passing the buck to RO/Activision, you probably wouldn't see as much public disgust with their business practices.

Also, please refrain from calling others idiots when you're using phrases such as "nothing no one can say."

[Quastor]

The box says it's compatible with "most guitar controllers" which would suggest more than half. Since there are only 2 controllers available for PS3, that's about as close to "most" as it's going to get. If someone else were to release a compatible rock band guitar, that means 66% of the available controllers would be compatible. Thus justifying the sticker on the box. It's not really false advertising because they don't specifically "SAY" it works with the GH3 Les Paul. Harmonix did not make the Les Paul so it really wasn't up to them to make it compatible. It was up to RedOctane to make it compatible. Harmonix can fix the situation by releasing a patch, which is probably the most likely of events to happen.


This is (one of) the point(s) people seem to be missing. Harmonix has an open controller standards policy. So that means that any third party that contacts them interested in making a Rock Band guitar or drums will be given the standards that they need to use, Harmonix won't be locking them out and saying "Only our guitars and drums for this game, sorry." Just like there were multiple PS2 guitars available, soon there will be plenty more third party Rock Band guitars out for sale.

Now, how often does a publisher update their box art? Never! Once it's released, the box cover slip stays the same for the life time of the game in the retail market. So they put that statement on the front of the box to cover current and future state - it still is compatible with most guitar controllers for the PS3 (and old PS2 controllers don't count, standard PS2 controllers aren't supported by Sony on the PS3, so why should old PS2 guitars be support when you'd need a third party adapter that doesn't even work 100%?), and when more guitars are released, it'll be even more-so true. There will only be one incompatible guitar - the Les Paul (assuming Red Octane are jerks and don't allow Harmonix to patch the game to allow it to work).

And as for the reason the stand-alone game is available, I've said this a million times. Playing guitar is not the only thing you can do with this game. Any USB mic will work, so people could purchase it for the karaoke. Someone could buy the drums stand-alone from ebay, then need to purchase the game stand-alone.

[BathTub]

It wasn't a week, it was 3 weeks. All they had to do sometime in that window was test it and announce, 'Hey it doesn't work, Sorry, we'll see what we can do'. You can't say they didn't care they were very interested in GH3 in the MTV blog.

EA has given out some wrong info, saying that the ps2 guitars are usuable with the pelican adapter, which they aren't, and that the game is playable with the sixaxis, which it isn't, people aren't talking to each other.

[AdamWill]

"The only "Defense" you guys have is the advertising on the box, and honestly it's a weak defense.

The fact of the matter is the same "False advertising" sticker was on the 360 box and it is actually true. 100% of the available 360 guitars (3 of them) all work for the 360. So they were right on that count. But I don't see you bringing that up for some reason. Hmmm."

Ummm...yes. I don't expect advertising to bat 0.500, I expect it to be right all the time. What, you think any company whose advertising is correct more than 50% of the time is doing just fine? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You are not allowed to make *any* false claims about a product.

I'm not about to go around posting congratulatory messages because they managed to get the box text *right* in one case. Come on! This is what they're supposed to do all the time. It's not exactly hard.

[AdamWill]

quastor: it's not box art. It's a sticker. And yes, if the box art is *wilfully misleading*, I would expect it to be fixed, and so would the relevant consumer complaints authorities, I expect.

[Leto]

Ummm...yes. I don't expect advertising to bat 0.500, I expect it to be right all the time. What, you think any company whose advertising is correct more than 50% of the time is doing just fine? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You are not allowed to make *any* false claims about a product.

I'm not about to go around posting congratulatory messages because they managed to get the box text *right* in one case. Come on! This is what they're supposed to do all the time. It's not exactly hard.

I'm sure this has been pointed out, but the box is technically correct. There are two guitars: the Strat and Les Paul. Either all controllers work, one of them works, or none do. Saying most certainly does not imply that they all work. Given that there is only one other guitar, it is valid, if a little awkward, to say "most" guitars work. Unless Harmonix came out and specifically stated, anywhere, "the Guitar Hero 3 Les Paul for the PS3 will work for the PS3 version of Rock Band," there is no false advertising and everyone is blowing smoke.

I'm sorry if you purchased GH3 hoping that the controller would be compatible, but that is, as has been pointed out many, many times, not Harmonix's fault. There is absolutely NO expectation that they MUST make their game compatible with a competitor's controller for the PS3.

[deathinc]

Just for reference: http://www.answers.com/most&r=67

Defined as "Greatest in number". The problem is to be greatest you must be more then the others, in this case for the PS3, GHIII is compatible with 1 guitar, and RB 1, therefore they are 'equal' - RB does not have compatibility with "most" or a greater number then GHIII. Thus, the claim of "most" is, at best inaccurate, and possibly fraudulent. (IANAL - but I play one on TV)

[BobsRevenge]

I'm sure this has been pointed out, but the box is technically correct. There are two guitars: the Strat and Les Paul. Either all controllers work, one of them works, or none do. Saying most certainly does not imply that they all work. Given that there is only one other guitar, it is valid, if a little awkward, to say "most" guitars work. Unless Harmonix came out and specifically stated, anywhere, "the Guitar Hero 3 Les Paul for the PS3 will work for the PS3 version of Rock Band," there is no false advertising and everyone is blowing smoke.

I'm sorry if you purchased GH3 hoping that the controller would be compatible, but that is, as has been pointed out many, many times, not Harmonix's fault. There is absolutely NO expectation that they MUST make their game compatible with a competitor's controller for the PS3.

No, the box is technically incorrect. Since there are only two guitars if one doesn't work you can't make a "most" claim because half doesn't qualify as most. You'd have to have both working to do that. If the GH3 guitar works for RB on the 360 it is only fair that it work on the PS3 also. We all pay the same amount for the game and yet we don't get the same capabilities. That isn't fair to PS3 owners.

There was an expectation that it would work since it worked on the 360 and no one said it wouldn't on the PS3. It was assumed that it would work. Also, why would they bother selling it in a standalone version? Do they really think that someone would pay $60 so they could play through the game on their Singstar mics until next year? I'd think the existence of the standalone games for this year on the PS3 would lead to the assumption that the GH3 guitar would work with it... which it obviously has.

So yeah, the advertising is false.

[Leto]

No, the box is technically incorrect. Since there are only two guitars if one doesn't work you can't make a "most" claim because half doesn't qualify as most. You'd have to have both working to do that. If the GH3 guitar works for RB on the 360 it is only fair that it work on the PS3 also. We all pay the same amount for the game and yet we don't get the same capabilities. That isn't fair to PS3 owners.

There was an expectation that it would work since it worked on the 360 and no one said it wouldn't on the PS3. It was assumed that it would work. Also, why would they bother selling it in a standalone version? Do they really think that someone would pay $60 so they could play through the game on their Singstar mics until next year? I'd think the existence of the standalone games for this year on the PS3 would lead to the assumption that the GH3 guitar would work with it... which it obviously has.

So yeah, the advertising is false.

The most thing is just mincing words. If there are only two equal percentages, there is no actual most, true. In colloquial terms, most means a number of something but not all. Most never means all. Most does not ever imply that the Les Paul will work.

The other two things you stated: the 360 les paul working and the existence of the standalone game - are based on assumptions. I think you'd have trouble legally proving that a company misled you because you assumed something about their product that they never stated.

[BobsRevenge]

The most thing is just mincing words. If there are only two equal percentages, there is no actual most, true. In colloquial terms, most means a number of something but not all. Most never means all. Most does not ever imply that the Les Paul will work.

The other two things you stated: the 360 les paul working and the existence of the standalone game - are based on assumptions. I think you'd have trouble legally proving that a company misled you because you assumed something about their product that they never stated.

I suppose you would, but it was stated that it would work with most guitars. So that statement is false and thereby they have falsely advertised for their game on their own product. Of course the other things were assumptions, and not legally applicable.

But I'm not out for legal action anyways. I just want Harmonix to make this right. PS3 owners shouldn't be getting screwed like this. They just need to release a fix and I'll be happy.

[MagicDrop]

You have no leagal leg to stand on being as sine the 360 les paul works... most are compatible. if you take those 2 systems only you have 66% of guitars working. I know nothing about the Wii so we are only talking about the 3 guitars out for the other 2 systems right now. You have the 360 les paul, the PS3 Les paul and the Rock Band Fender. I guess you could add in the 360 xplorer and then I believe you are at 50% again. Either way you can't take them to court over the word most.

The bigger problem I have here is I did buy GH3 so I had a second guitar. Now that I don't they aren't even selling one yet for the game. GH3 did the same thing and it says on gamestops website they will be out in feb. that is insane I have to wait till feb till I can buy another guitar. So much for the good old days when friends came over to play games now they are forcing me to play over the internet.

[AdamWill]

I'm sure this has been pointed out, but the box is technically correct. There are two guitars: the Strat and Les Paul. Either all controllers work, one of them works, or none do. Saying most certainly does not imply that they all work. Given that there is only one other guitar, it is valid, if a little awkward, to say "most" guitars work. Unless Harmonix came out and specifically stated, anywhere, "the Guitar Hero 3 Les Paul for the PS3 will work for the PS3 version of Rock Band," there is no false advertising and everyone is blowing smoke.

I'm sorry if you purchased GH3 hoping that the controller would be compatible, but that is, as has been pointed out many, many times, not Harmonix's fault. There is absolutely NO expectation that they MUST make their game compatible with a competitor's controller for the PS3.

That's the most heroic feat of rationalization I've ever seen. Unfortunately, it's clearly also crap.

"Most" means *more* than half. Not exactly half.

[demod]

Hey, I know I may be new to this but I swear my complaint about all this is legitimate. I purchased the full $184(with tax) version of Rock Band for my PS3 and my frustration is completlely related. Now I feel for all the poor souls that bought the standalone version as you were downright ripped off with no explanation from the company that made your game. Now I know that Harmonix is either currently working on a patch or way to fix this issue or that they plan to start working on it Monday after all these crazy holidays are over.

My concern actually has to do with false advertising on the PS3 box not related to the sticker. It's in a little place titled this game supports up to 4 players offline. Now looking at the current situation the only way that I can play with up to 4 people right now is if I buy the Rock Band Bundle again and use the guitar in that bundle as the 4th instrument. Yet we then run into the issue of the 2nd game bundle "4 player" statement not working its a sad cycle that goes over and over again. Right now I just want to have a guitar that works for my PS3 on Rock Band as the bass without having to buy the bundle all over again. I can't even buy a guitar from Harmonix on their own website. And apparently gamestop says I must wait till February. Really? Is that what's hot in the streets?!? This is all very disturbing.

Now I trust harmonix will be fixing the problem as soon as possible as they stand to make money and not loose(any more than already) money from it. Harmonix, if you hear me, please find a way for it work and you will have not only my money but my gratitude and loyalty as a customer. And I know this might be a nit-picking issue but if you could somehow make through a patch your guitar compatible with also GH 1 & 2 on my PS3 I would truly think you are a company among companies.

If not then like someone else said on this thread then the next million dollar idea goes to the man who can make a guitar to work with all of these games with maybe a switch to switch between modes. Harmonix the money is all on the table I pray that you just reach out and grab it. And by the way I would like to thank you for making an awesome game! Been playing it all week and I can't get enough. Just give me a reason to give you my money as right now you aren't! Thanks for your time.

[Cutlass]

This also means that if a third party company wants to make a controller it *should* probably work in our game. This happened with alternate controllers for GH2

[WesleyWillis]

Harmonix's argument would hold water except for the fact that wireless does work for the 360. Red Octane didn't design the guitars differently for the PS3 as opposed to the 360 (at least not that I'm aware of). So one could come to one of two conclusions:

1. This is an issue that Harmonix is responsible for being that they had to have had some sort of working knowledge of the GH3 guitar for both systems since GH3 was released for both systems simultaneously. They could have built the game to a true "open standard" (whatever that really is) and for some unknown reason did not.

2. They truely did make the game with an "open standard" and there is something internal to the PS3 that has locked this out.

I've been reading on these boards for about a week now hoping to see that some sort of resolution was made to make the GH3 guitar compatible and while I've been hearing people saying "it's all harmonix's fault!" and "it's all red octane's fault!" and "it's all neversoft's fault!" I've yet to read a single message with someone suggesting that maybe Sony's who needs to be consulted about this. Afterall the combination of Harmonix's Rock Band and Red Octane's GH3 controller works as a bass on 360. I find it hard to believe that a company would develop a piece of hardware or software for two different systems that weren't equally compatible with both unless there was an issue with one of the systems. Maybe WE the people need to not only flood Harmonix's phone lines and Red Octane's phone lines (and maybe even Activision's phone lines as well) but maybe we need to start calling up Sony and say "Hey what's up?!?!?! Why isn't your version of Rock Band working like Microsoft's is??" It's just something to think about but I plan on complaining to all 3 companies and I encourage everyone on here who is a PS3 owner (and 360 owners, you might want to consider complaining as well because it just as easily could have been your system that is suffering from this incident. Not only that but you guys got stuck with a wired guitar and an excuse that "if we paid Microsoft's wireless fee then we would have to charge more for the game", which is exactly that, an excuse, because Activision didn't charge more for a wireless GH3...think about that) to call all three companies. Sometime within the next day or so I'm going to post a topic with all 3 customer support numbers that we need to flood with questions and complaints until we get this issue resolved.

[BobsRevenge]

Wesley, Sony has nothing to do with this. They don't have any restrictions on what third parties can do with peripherals for their system. Also, GH3 costs the same wireless on both systems because Activision is ripping off PS3 users by making them pay the same when it costs them less to produce. Harmonix decided not to rip off PS3 owners and keep the costs down on both systems. Which is awesome of them.

Harmonix, you guys just need to fix this one little thing. I look forward to your response sometime this week.

[Christopherap34]

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Harmonix would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they simple patched RB without RedOctane's permission/request. I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software. If Harmonix were just create a patch, they could be infringing on RedOctane's IP and get sued.


While this is true, both parties stand to make more money. If patches were made for GH3 and RB making either compatible with the other, then the GH3 people would make money cause people will still play GH without having to buy another guitar, gamers could battle on GH3, still buy DLC for GH3. And the people that have bought GH3 will feel better about buying RB. Oh, and for thos that say that they will lose money because of the price difference from not buying an additional guitar. Think about this, If everyone is using there second guitars from the other games to play. You can worry about producing a lower number, and with the problems that these have with failures and breaking, that means less to replace.

[BathTub]

Red Octane could hardly complain if they simply opened the game up to a standard controller, which is all they need to do.

[MagicDrop]

One of the worest arguments I have seen on here so far is someone complainning that the box says it supports 4 player mode. Just because you don't have a fourth controller doesn't mean it supports four player mode. Does ANY other game that supports four play mode need to come with all the controls you need. You don't have to buy another full box you just need to have a friend come over that owns the game and use his/hers.

It is messed up that you can't buy another guitar but it is certainly not false advertising.

[oz8441]

I just want to know is there anyway I can have a guitar and bass at the same time without buying a whole other bundle? If not is there a official statement on when an alternative will be available?

[MF-PO'd]

Wesley, Sony has nothing to do with this. They don't have any restrictions on what third parties can do with peripherals for their system. Also, GH3 costs the same wireless on both systems because Activision is ripping off PS3 users by making them pay the same when it costs them less to produce. Harmonix decided not to rip off PS3 owners and keep the costs down on both systems. Which is awesome of them.

Harmonix, you guys just need to fix this one little thing. I look forward to your response sometime this week.

Actually, Sony does have a part in this, and that is coming directly from EA who blames Sony for not allowing the Sixaxis to work. Apparently, the Sixaxis doesn't follow this "open standard". EA specifically told me to take that up with Sony.

[MF-PO'd]

EA has now admitted to me that the PS3 standalone version should not be on the market. Look at this response:

------------------------------
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts!

It looks like you purchased the game individually, though we do not currently have the game for sale in that state because we do not have all of the individual components for sale at this time. We should only have the bundle for sale. Looking online it looks as though Amazon.com is selling just the game, though they really shouldn't be at this time because of the situation it creates.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Customer Support
Electronic Arts
------------------------------

[djbarg]

Looking online it looks as though Amazon.com is selling just the game, though they really shouldn't be at this time because of the situation it creates.
------------------------------


And Best Buy, and WalMart, and Kmart and etc, etc etc,....

I feel really bad for everyone that purchased the game seperately. It is totally irresoponsible for a company to market their product in this way. EA should send 50% off vouchers for equipment to all who purchased the game by itself.

[DoctorSpaghetti]

sean, with all due respect, an answer straight out of the PR department isn't going to satisfy anyone. Harmonix's own marketing material was quite misleading in the case of the PS3, and the last thing anybody wants to hear is it's everybody elses fault but yours.

Am I the only one that heard the PS3 GH controllers wouldn't work like a couple weeks in advance? Everybody else seems to be shocked...

[AdamWill]

Red Octane could hardly complain if they simply opened the game up to a standard controller, which is all they need to do.

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

There *is* no standard for guitar controllers.

If the guitar controller did absolutely nothing different from the only 'open standard' that exists, which is what the first-party controller for the system does, then you could play RB with a Sixaxis. You can't. This is demonstration enough that just making your controller 'standard' is not enough for it to work with RB.

Anyone who's ever actually looked at how guitar controllers works would be able to tell you that anyway.

The controllers do not use any proprietary system for communicating with the game. None of them do. Not Red Octane's, not Harmonix's. They use the standard interface. All the buttons and levers and strum bars on a RO or Harmonix guitar send signals to the console which are the same as one of the signals sent by a Sixaxis.

However, the games need to be able to identify when a guitar is plugged in (and RB needs to know when a mic is plugged in and when a drum kit is plugged in). So to do this, the controllers send an arbitrarily chosen 'signal'. For instance, the GH2 guitar does the equivalent of permanently holding down both the left and right d-pad buttons (you'll note that these controls are not used anywhere in the GH2 interface). This is the signal that tells the game it has a compatible guitar controller plugged in.

These signals *are not standardized*. It is also not standardized which Sixaxis controller buttons the fret buttons should map to, and which button or axis the strum bar and whammy bar should map to. These are the things that need to be standardized to guarantee guitar peripherals will interchange reliably between games. As long as they're not standardized, HMX's excuse is pure crap. As I've been writing all along - the blame for this situation is *equally* HMX's and RO's (and Bemani's, if you care), because it would take the involve of both / all three of them to ratify a proper standard. No-one is saying HMX is entirely to blame here, we are saying that they are *partly* to blame and that their attempts to excuse themselves from all blame are weak and bad form.

[Yordakin]

I agree with most on this subject HMXSean. A simple PR " it's not our fault" won't do in this case. It's not like you guys have an amazing number of parties to deal with when it comes to assuring compatibility of your hardware. I expected this from Activision/ Neversoft, I knew my Les Paul wouldn't work with my previous GH games because they TOLD US!! I did NOT expect this from Harmonix however. Nothing was said about these compatibility issues, NO warning at all. Here I am thinking I'm going to get to play Rockband. Instead all I can do is play Drums/Vocals. Not only do I not have ANY 3rd party options for my guitar, but my Rockband guitar is among one of the many that is faulty. I payed 181 dollars including tax for RockDUO! I know this post sounds angry, because it is. HMX is not stupid, they HAD to know of these issues facing PS3 owners especially. Thank you for becoming yet another company that just screws it's PS3 customers in order to milk the mighty Xbox cow. Oh wait, this is nothing new, EA was involved, they've been releasing inferior products on the PS3 for just over a year now. I was wondering what part EA played in making Rockband, guess I know now. I hope this post pisses someone off at HMX, I hope you think I'm an @#$hole. I am a pissed consumer, and after giving you a fair chunk of my money for a faulty product, I have a right to be. Up until this point I have given HMX my total faith, however, this failed launch looks like typical rushing of a product for profit, so I cannot defend my favorite game company. So in closing, fix the problem, don't try to shift blame somewhere else. The gaming community is not expecting anyone but HMX to get this issue resolved, because frankly, the gaming community does not have any faith in any other company to get it done, at least I don't.

[jedbeetle]

Here here!
EA blows goats! i used to love EA products, was faithful to them since the days of Mail Order Monsters on the C64; now i shun their logo.
SHuN!
Harmonix, please fix your game.

[MF-PO'd]

Another reply from EA here. It appears I've found someone on our side and agrees with this travesty.

-----------------------
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts!

Come Monday (once managers and product managers are in the office) I will see what I can do about this as its a HUGE mistake considering the standalone instruments are not available yet. There may have been miscommunication on the release date for the standalone game. FYI any USB Mic should work for the singing portion at least.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Customer Support
Electronic Arts
-----------------------

[Blue_Murder]

right now I have four guitars sitting around 2 for PS2 (GH1,2,80's) 2 for PS3 1 for GH3 and 1 for RB. Its crazy and the way things are now with no patches I would need 2 more to be able to play 2 player in both PS3 games, which are not even avalible.

BTW, Have you tried "GH Rock The 80s" plugging the Rock Band guitar on PS3?

[NO FEAR]

Sony should release key mapping software so any recognised controller can have manualy assigned keys.

I just say the drum kit being used on a PC with simple key mapping software so the inverse is completly plausable if Sony would create it (or allow others who have already)

I really don't care who's to blame, what I do care about are solutions to problems. It's time for someone to step up and take action.

Please fix the controller issues!

[AdamBomb629]

Another reply from EA here. It appears I've found someone on our side and agrees with this travesty.

-----------------------
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts!

Come Monday (once managers and product managers are in the office) I will see what I can do about this as its a HUGE mistake considering the standalone instruments are not available yet. There may have been miscommunication on the release date for the standalone game. FYI any USB Mic should work for the singing portion at least.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Customer Support
Electronic Arts
-----------------------

Here's hoping for some Monday feedback from EA/Harmonix.

[codman]

I was told that my GH3 controller would work with RockBand. I spent $60.00 today on RockBand. I just tried playing RockBand with my GH3 controller. IT DOES'NT WORK!!!!!!!! I know I am late to this party, but I still wanted to vent my anger at EA/Harmonix. I am now going back to my room and play some GH3.

P.S. I own a PS3

[youngphoenix]

After reading about half of the posts I'd like to say......atleast I'm not the only moron that thought this (GH3 guitar) would work.

All I want to know is:
1. Can it be fixed?
2. Will it be fixed?

Because if for some reason it can be fixed but won't be, then EA, HMX, RO, whoever, can kiss my gaming dollars goodbye.

[kenster35]

I bought the whole thing $169. Mic didn't work and guitar stopped working about 30 minutes after playing. Yellow button stays on and sometimes red.

I found out how to get the mic working, but only after I RMA'd it. Poor instructions in the manual.

Strike one...

Guitar wiggin after 30 minutes. I had to RMA that so I have no guitar.

Strike two...

So I figured that I will use my Guitar Hero III... Holy crap it doesn't work!!! Hey they said it would!!!

Strike three...

$169 and all I can play is the drums! hmmm I also would have figured that the drums would have a clip to hold the guitar and mic when it is not in use?

Now that is out of the way. Are they going to patch it or not. What is the ETA?

[lawman118]

BTW, Have you tried "GH Rock The 80s" plugging the Rock Band guitar on PS3?

Blue murder, no I have not. I will try Monday when I get back home though. Most games so far just dont show any type of controller action.

[ShadowOfEden]

Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe they can't just 'easily' make a patch?

Nope, because it isn't true.

I'm a programmer and I could even tell them how to do it. I posted it somewhere else so I'll be brief. I don't know if the PS3 can do that, but DirectX (I know the PS3 doesn't use DirectX, but it might have a similar feature) can get the controller's signature. So by that, they could do a big if in the control engine. If the PS3 cannot do that, they could simply add a check box option for third party guitars (it's not like there was 12 other guitars for the PS3) and the user manually select it, and then do a if on that in the control engine.


I just want to add something very interesting I received from EA on why the Sixaxis apparently doesn't work:

-----------------------------
Greetings,

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts. At the risk of repeating myself, please take a look at the statement below:

"If your controller or peripheral doesn’t work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn’t support the standard controller configuration. In other words, if a peripheral or controller doesn’t work with Rock Band, then the manufacturer has done something to prevent it from working with Rock Band by changing how the device “talks” to either a PS3 or Xbox 360."

I honestly don't know what else to tell you. We have no control over what other manufacturers, including Sony, choose to do with and to their products.
-----------------------------

All right then... so it's Sony's fault that the PlayStation 3's own controller doesn't work in Rock Band. Is that what I'm hearing here?

I think I have answer to that : The PS3 and X360 both use their own standards for their controllers, but Rock Band goes by X360 standards on both version, so that could explain why it doesn't work with the Sixaxis. But I'm certain that, at a previous E3, a Sony rep was talking about the possibilities of mouse and keyboard in a FPS, and someone asked if they could make a m+kb ONLY game, and the rep said no, that every PS3 games had to be compatible with the Sixaxis. I think we should all e-mail Sony now.

[MF-PO'd]

Nope, because it isn't true.

I'm a programmer and I could even tell them how to do it. I posted it somewhere else so I'll be brief. I don't know if the PS3 can do that, but DirectX (I know the PS3 doesn't use DirectX, but it might have a similar feature) can get the controller's signature. So by that, they could do a big if in the control engine. If the PS3 cannot do that, they could simply add a check box option for third party guitars (it's not like there was 12 other guitars for the PS3) and the user manually select it, and then do a if on that in the control engine.



I think I have answer to that : The PS3 and X360 both use their own standards for their controllers, but Rock Band goes by X360 standards on both version, so that could explain why it doesn't work with the Sixaxis. But I'm certain that, at a previous E3, a Sony rep was talking about the possibilities of mouse and keyboard in a FPS, and someone asked if they could make a m+kb ONLY game, and the rep said no, that every PS3 games had to be compatible with the Sixaxis. I think we should all e-mail Sony now.

I mailed Sony on Thursday (waiting for response). I do think others should do the same.

I'm also waiting for a reply from EA today.

A question though. How do you know specifically that Rock Band uses a 360 standard on the PS3? That seems very strange and totally wrong if that's the case.

[ShadowOfEden]

A question though. How do you know specifically that Rock Band uses a 360 standard on the PS3? That seems very strange and totally wrong if that's the case.

I said "I THINK", meaning it was only a guess and nothing I have proof of. It was only made by the facts about compatibility with the Sixaxis and X360 GH3 LP.

[BathTub]

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

There *is* no standard for guitar controllers.

I imagine Adam you'll have to keep repeating yourself for as long as you don't actually read the post you are replying to. You inserted the word guitar in there, I wasn't talking about guitar controllers in anyway in that post.

[Se7enLawliet]

But that's not true. The sixaxis does work. It functions just fine for what it's programmed to do.

Your statement would make sense if the Xbox version let you use the controller as a substitute for the guitar/drums but that's not the case.

[Gryffindor]

Well, it's Monday. All I want is a definitive answer from HMX on whether or not they intend to release a patch or not.

[dikfox]

Well, it's Monday. All I want is a definitive answer from HMX on whether or not they intend to release a patch or not.

Agreed. Please give us a heads up.

[darien87]

If there is no announcement regarding a patch THIS week, I will be returning RB this weekend.

[JackBNimble]

But that's not true. The sixaxis does work. It functions just fine for what it's programmed to do.

Your statement would make sense if the Xbox version let you use the controller as a substitute for the guitar/drums but that's not the case.

I would suspect that is where the problem lies.The LP functions exactly the same way as the regular sixaxis controller does in RB.I'm just guessing here ,but if the game was opened up to the sixaxis then maybe that would solve problem with the LP.I dont think a patch needs to be made specificly for the LP but to unlock the full function of the sixaxis controller.And then maybe it would allow the LP access as a cotroller for actual game play as a guiter.

Just my thoughts, I'm not sure if it would work, just throughing out ideas.

[AdamWill]

Nope, because it isn't true.

I'm a programmer and I could even tell them how to do it. I posted it somewhere else so I'll be brief. I don't know if the PS3 can do that, but DirectX (I know the PS3 doesn't use DirectX, but it might have a similar feature) can get the controller's signature.

i.e., its USB ID. All USB connected peripherals must have a unique identifier, according to the USB standard (see, aren't standards useful)?

[AdamWill]

I imagine Adam you'll have to keep repeating yourself for as long as you don't actually read the post you are replying to. You inserted the word guitar in there, I wasn't talking about guitar controllers in anyway in that post.

yes, and I explained why the wider 'standard' for input devices is basically irrelevant to guitar-based rhythm action games. you can create two guitar controllers which both use the 'standard' and are utterly incompatible with each other.

[darien87]

yes, and I explained why the wider 'standard' for input devices is basically irrelevant to guitar-based rhythm action games. you can create two guitar controllers which both use the 'standard' and are utterly incompatible with each other.Ok Adam, so bottom line is, EVERYONE with a PS 3 is completely hosed until you start putting out separate guitars in January. Is that what EA has the balls to be telling everyone?!?!?!?!?

[bklynpnk]

Ok Adam, so bottom line is, EVERYONE with a PS 3 is completely hosed until you start putting out separate guitars in January. Is that what EA has the balls to be telling everyone?!?!?!?!?

Why would you say that? There are plenty of options. Buy another bundle. Or have a deadbeat friend that wants to play your game buy a bundle. Just because you aren't willing to do what it takes at this moment to acquire another controller does not mean it is impossible. How about calling Sony up and asking them why they have yet to make a good converter for the ps2 controllers. Otherwise, EA/HMX has been true with their statement of most. 1 controller does not work, the ps3 LP. That leaves the RB controller, the 360 LP and the LP xplorer.

The idea of your statement floors me completely. Now it you will excuse me, I am going to call up Microsoft and complain that my blu ray disks won't play in the addon drive.

[TheVoiceOfReason]

Why would you say that? There are plenty of options. Buy another bundle. Or have a deadbeat friend that wants to play your game buy a bundle. Just because you aren't willing to do what it takes at this moment to acquire another controller does not mean it is impossible. How about calling Sony up and asking them why they have yet to make a good converter for the ps2 controllers. Otherwise, EA/HMX has been true with their statement of most. 1 controller does not work, the ps3 LP. That leaves the RB controller, the 360 LP and the LP xplorer.

The idea of your statement floors me completely. Now it you will excuse me, I am going to call up Microsoft and complain that my blu ray disks won't play in the addon drive.

Hahaha, I actually got a chuckle reading your post. I've seen some absurd arguments from pissed off customers on these threads and some absurd arguments from HMX fanboys too (I really can't fathom anyone having enough time on their hands to post on a thread about a problem that doesn't affect them, but to each his/her own I guess), but this one ranks up there.

The notion that one should consider compatability of XBox 360 controllers when looking at the box for a game for the PS3 is pretty funny. Add to that your assertion that it is reasonable to expect a consumer to purchase two sets in order to play 4 player (or purchase a bundle AFTER having already purchased the standalone to play any part other than singing along) and you put the icing on the cake :)

You may well have a future in corporate law defening tobacco companies with an ability to make arguments like those with a straight face :)

[bklynpnk]

The fact remains. It is possible to play with 4 people. The mechanics are in the game. I do it with my xplorer and strat controller. See, I am a fanboy of not freaking out less than a week after a game has released because a product another company makes doesn't work with my game. The fact that we are now on a Monday, the first weekday after a holiday weekend, and this is already at 15 pages shows that perhaps peoples patience needs some ritalin.

Oh, another option is put in for an express strat controller replacement and never send the "bad" one back. Like buying a controller for 125 bucks. Wouldn't want you to say I wasn't trying to be helpful.

[ShadowOfEden]

The fact remains. It is possible to play with 4 people. The mechanics are in the game. I do it with my xplorer and strat controller. See, I am a fanboy of not freaking out less than a week after a game has released because a product another company makes doesn't work with my game. The fact that we are now on a Monday, the first weekday after a holiday weekend, and this is already at 15 pages shows that perhaps peoples patience needs some ritalin.

Oh, another option is put in for an express strat controller replacement and never send the "bad" one back. Like buying a controller for 125 bucks. Wouldn't want you to say I wasn't trying to be helpful.

The other thread on the same subject has 71 pages. :P

[MF-PO'd]

To anyone thinking what Harmonix did with the stand alone version was acceptable, consider this: A very helpful EA rep has told me managers are meeting and discussing this issue today. Although the original intent was to release this version only for people to be able to buy the game and play with friends' peripherals, they see the flaw in that idea. Their senior director is in talks with Amazon (and other vendors) and Harmonix to see if it's possible to have this version pulled from shelves until peripherals are made available.

[ShadowOfEden]

To anyone thinking what Harmonix did with the stand alone version was acceptable, consider this: A very helpful EA rep has told me managers are meeting and discussing this issue today. Although the original intent was to release this version only for people to be able to buy the game and play with friends' peripherals, they see the flaw in that idea. Their senior director is in talks with Amazon (and other vendors) and Harmonix to see if it's possible to have this version pulled from shelves until peripherals are made available.

I understand the logic behind it, but it's not really in the interest of those who purchased it already. They should AT LEAST make the guitar purchasable, so that PS3 owners could get a full band or those who purchased the stand alone copy could at least do something with it. Some people are buying bundles and selling them in parts on Ebay. I've been tracking some guitars, but they always end over 130$, that's a crazy price for a single guitar. At that price, I would buy a second bundle and could probably get like 60$ for the drum en 20$ for the game.

[botnic]

So, for the sake of those not willing to read all 150 posts, what's the full story here? From what I have gathered so far, the GH3 controller, among several others, doesn't work, even though Harmonix promised it would. They may be looking into it, but have not made any official statements saying that it would be fixed. These problems seem to be worse among PS3 owners.

Is this about right? Anyone have a list of confirmed working third party controllers?

[Kikketer]

I am one of the irritated consumers with Rock Band and it's lack of compatibility.
I was really excited to get the bundle package, I didn't realize I wouldn't be able to have a second guitar until 2008. I played the Xbox version in the stores and noticed the Guitar Hero guitar worked with Rock Band.

So I ran out and purchased Guitar Hero 3 (after realizing I was going to spend $100 for a sorta good game but mainly a guitar). When I unboxed it and realized neither of the controllers worked for either game I was hot with anger.
Now I have two games, two equal controllers and can't use both on either!

Look for my Guitar Hero III on eBay, it'll be cheap since it's used once!

Oh by the way, my Rock Band guitar downstrum broke after about 4 hours of use. The next day the upstrum broke. I'm now forced to press the arrow buttons. Perhaps this is why they are waiting to release the guitar, get the bugs knocked out (and me and many others are the test rats).

[AdamWill]

So, for the sake of those not willing to read all 150 posts, what's the full story here? From what I have gathered so far, the GH3 controller, among several others, doesn't work, even though Harmonix promised it would. They may be looking into it, but have not made any official statements saying that it would be fixed. These problems seem to be worse among PS3 owners.

Is this about right? Anyone have a list of confirmed working third party controllers?

Yes, that's about right. The GH3 guitar *does* work on 360. It does *not* work on PS3. This is confirmed by all. There are no guitars that work for RB on PS3 except the official RB guitar.

Harmonix has said, very vaguely, that they'll work with anyone who wants their controller to work with RB. RO has said, very vaguely, that they want their controller to work with RB. So you would think something would happen, but hey, don't hold your breath.

[sheppyboy]

So, for the sake of those not willing to read all 150 posts, what's the full story here? From what I have gathered so far, the GH3 controller, among several others, doesn't work, even though Harmonix promised it would. They may be looking into it, but have not made any official statements saying that it would be fixed. These problems seem to be worse among PS3 owners.

Is this about right? Anyone have a list of confirmed working third party controllers?

Okay, basically it except one problem.

Harmonix's stance is if other developers, namely Red Octane, was willing to help Harmonix to get the Les Paul working on PS3, it will get fixed. In other words, and no, this isn't made up, they want Red Octane to deliver on Harmonix promises.

There is a genuine feeling of being victims of a deception with this issue and unfortunately, it's a rightful feeling. After all, they've been saying compatable compatable compatable this entire time when it was IGN which broke the news that those claims were in fact false. Now their stance is that they'll be more than willing to let Red Octane fix the issue if they want to.

As for a list of confirmed working third party controllers? None, nada, zip, zilch, zero, bupkis. In other words, the only compatable controllers are those which are not available for sale. Now do you see the problem? I mean, EA wonders why they aren't making as much money on PS3. Between broken ports, horrid ports, and this.... I'm wondering why I bought a game where I call up my friend hoping he's not playing so we can snag his strat.

[thetreadmill]

I understand that most of this is the ranting of the PS3 which I understand...but have we heard if they will be making a patch so that the Rock Band controller will work on GH2 and GH3 for the X360. I picked up GH2 online to get the second guitar and while I know that it will work with Rock BAnd, I had hear that the Strat will not work with GH2 or GH3. This still true?

[Gryffindor]

Well, it's the end of the day and NO ONE from HMX/EA has bothered to respond as to whether or not there will be a patch and what they intend to do about their junk guitars.

I will NEVER purchase another one of their games - ever.

[botnic]

Being a business major, I feel that I have at least some insight into how long deals take among two businesses. For Harmonix and Red Octane to truly get together and collaborate like we want them too, it may take weeks. There isn't anything that can be done about it, it's simply that there is some red tape involved. My guess is that we should wait until the end of maybe even next week before we can start anticipating any announcements.

[djthebandit]

So, for the sake of those not willing to read all 150 posts, what's the full story here? From what I have gathered so far, the GH3 controller, among several others, doesn't work, even though Harmonix promised it would. They may be looking into it, but have not made any official statements saying that it would be fixed. These problems seem to be worse among PS3 owners.

Is this about right? Anyone have a list of confirmed working third party controllers?

Yes, you are correct.

I and many others have this problem. On top of the fact that the guitar it comes with in the package either doesn't work or breaks in a few hours (mine too).

[codman]

I am returning my copy of LiarBand, I mean, Great Customer ServiceBand, I mean, Total BullS#$!Band, tonight. EA/Harmonix, I realize I am just one customer, and in the grand universe you live in, I do not mean anything to you. I will NEVER buy a game from you again! I am now more than happy to go back to my room and play a game that WORKS!(GH3)

[jedbeetle]

Being a business major, I feel that I have at least some insight into how long deals take among two businesses. For Harmonix and Red Octane to truly get together and collaborate like we want them too, it may take weeks. There isn't anything that can be done about it, it's simply that there is some red tape involved. My guess is that we should wait until the end of maybe even next week before we can start anticipating any announcements.

this being the case, it still does not excuse Harmonix from correcting statements or ameliorating the situation concerning the compatibility of their own controllers (GH1, GH2) which i have been told personally in an by EA would work. our rights as consumers have been violated and i believe that if nothing new is stated or nothing is done about this within the week, we should collaborate in in a legal effort.

i have no soft feelings for any company involved - the amount of money we've been charged and the amount of profit they make takes this situation well out of the realm of any feelings of compassion or understanding.

[Jackmove]

I suspect that the stand alone game was meant for the reasons we used it. We, my friends and I, baught a Bundle and then two copies of the SAG so that I could practice with the drums, and my two friends could practice with the Guitar and Vocals. ($100 a piece) A bit more than the $60 for the game but a bit less than the $170 for the bundle and we can all play alone and together. So that's one reason to put out a SAG version.

As for the controller compatibility, why it doesn't work is beside the point. Sure they could have grabbed a GH3 controller and tested it, and I am sure that they did, how could they not...? And sure they could have issued a statement saying that it won't work in fact they could have created a Bundle (the one we got) and a "Special Edition" (the one we should have gotten) bundle that came with a Guitar and a Bass (or two guitars, whatever) BUT, the most important thing is that they say that they are willing the fix it. This is good but they are leaving too much to chance, they should get a GH3 controller, maybe one of the ones they baught to find out the S#!% didn't work, and create an adapter for it on their own, without waiting for RO. Then they come out looking good all the way around, and in fact they could make converters for all of the guitars (GH, GH2, GH80's). Then, at least in my eyes, they would be the Heros..... Wait a minute, why don't I do that, I'd make millions....!!!!

I'm out, work to do... LOL:eek:

[EBPanthers21]

So the GH3 guitar does work for the Xbox 360, though?

[DamnTheMan]

Hello everyone,

Just writing to tell you that if you are upset about your Rock Band hardware experience, the lack of GT3 LP controller support on the PS3, or anything else. CALL THE SUPPORT LINE! 1-650-628-1001 Don't just post your point of view in the forums. Call them as well. I work for a very large company that does a lot of customer service, and our goals are to reduce the number of actual phone calls. It costs my company $20-$60 on average whenever one person breaks through the first tier of automated responses.

The menu selections to get to a real person at the number above are 1-2-2-1-3-2-0-0-1.

So if you want to hit EA in the wallet, however little it may seem, if enough people do it, it could draw some attention.

Generations before us tried to stick it to the man with the very music we are playing in Rock Band, time to stick it to the man with freaking phone calls until they give us fixes and patches, replacements, additional controllers, and whatever else we believe our hard earned $169 is worth.

Well anyway, have fun rockin' everyone, (those who can because your stuff works), and those who are about to rock, and are waiting for freaking UPS to send you your replacement, I salute you. In the mean time, salute "the man" with a middle finger dialing EA's support line over and over again.

-DamnTheMan

[lawman118]

Blue Murder: the RB guitar will not work with GH1,2,or 80s. The led light on the dongle turns off and neither it or the guitar can be turned on. And of course those guitars (SG) with the adapter do not registar or lock in with RB.

[MagicDrop]

You are all reading what you want to read. Yes they said "most" guitar controllers will work and the GH3 one doesn't on the PS3 (for which I have) But if you read the very first post in this line you will see that hmx says it will work with any company that wants to create a guitar controller. They are telling you right there that the controller needs to be programed to work with RB and they are not stoping anyone from creating one that does. It is not all their fault that no one has made a 3rd party version yet. UNLIKE GH who does not even allow there own old guitars to work with new software..

But PLEASE fix this problem since yet again 360 owners (for which I am one also but chose to get it on PS3 since I have the red ring of death... BAD MONTH FOR ME) get a better product from EA who did the same thing to the original Xbox when they released the games that played much better on PS2 then xbox and now for 360 over PS3... Keep it fair as not to alienate anyone because over time the market will correct itself and you will have equal numbers again or a swing the other way and you are going to lose many people... Just think you can't hold the rights to the NFL forever...

[MagicDrop]

Hello everyone,

Just writing to tell you that if you are upset about your Rock Band hardware experience, the lack of GT3 LP controller support on the PS3, or anything else. CALL THE SUPPORT LINE! 1-650-628-1001 Don't just post your point of view in the forums. Call them as well. I work for a very large company that does a lot of customer service, and our goals are to reduce the number of actual phone calls. It costs my company $20-$60 on average whenever one person breaks through the first tier of automated responses.

The menu selections to get to a real person at the number above are 1-2-2-1-3-2-0-0-1.

So if you want to hit EA in the wallet, however little it may seem, if enough people do it, it could draw some attention.

Generations before us tried to stick it to the man with the very music we are playing in Rock Band, time to stick it to the man with freaking phone calls until they give us fixes and patches, replacements, additional controllers, and whatever else we believe our hard earned $169 is worth.

Well anyway, have fun rockin' everyone, (those who can because your stuff works), and those who are about to rock, and are waiting for freaking UPS to send you your replacement, I salute you. In the mean time, salute "the man" with a middle finger dialing EA's support line over and over again.

-DamnTheMan

Finally someone who makes sence I have called them 3 times since the game came out since if they hear enought voices they will have to do something even if it is to just release a statment telling me personally to shove it.

[Jackmove]

Lets all pretend that we are intelligent adults that realize that GH3 and RB are TWO DIFFERENT GAMES made by TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES. There is no reason that the controllers HAVE to be compatible, that's like complaining about your Time Crisis gun not working with GTA4. Sure they are similar themed games, but the cold fact is they are not the same game or made by the same company. So let's scold Harm. for not doing us a favor even though they are offering to do it anyway. They don't have to, they could just say "Kiss our A$$es" and you would moan right to the store and buy the game anyway, why???? Because it's an awesome game, in fact I will come and repost when I think of a word better than Awesome. Would I like the see GH hardware working on RB??? Sure would, but I would prefer not to demand something from someone that doesn't have to give me anything. It doesn't matter what a game maker gives you, you are always gonna ***** and moan about what they didn't give you.

[jrogers]

You say....


Lets all pretend that we are intelligent adults that realize that GH3 and RB are TWO DIFFERENT GAMES made by TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES. There is no reason that the controllers HAVE to be compatible, that's like complaining about your Time Crisis gun not working with GTA4. Sure they are similar themed games, but the cold fact is they are not the same game or made by the same company. .



THE FACT IS THIS.

FORGET OPEN STANDARDS...BLAH..BLAH..BLAH.... IF THE LP WORKS ON THE 360 THEN WHY DOESN'T IT WORK ON THE PS3? IF HARMONIX/ EA ARE TRULY 3RD PARTY DEVS THEN THEY WILL REALIZE THAT IF ONE WORKS FOR ONE PLATFORM THEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK ON THE OTHER PLATFORM. THEY ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO GET S#@T ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT FAIR? IF THEY WILL NOT FIX IT FOR PS3 USERS THEN THEY SHOULD MAKE IT STOP WORKING FOR 360 OWNERS...... OR WORK WITH RED OCTANE TO FIX IT WHICH I'M SURE IS GONNA MAKE RED OCTANE REQUEST THAT THE FENDER WORKS IN GH3 ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW WHY BECAUSE IT LOOKS NICE BUT VERY INFERIOR. IF RED OCTANE AND HARMONIX CAN'T WORK 2GETHER THEN DISCONTINUE THE COMPATIBILITY ON THE 360 SO EVERYONE CAN BE PISSED AND GO BUY THEIR CONTROLLER TWO MONTHS FROM NOW.

[codman]

Lets all pretend that we are intelligent adults that realize that GH3 and RB are TWO DIFFERENT GAMES made by TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES. There is no reason that the controllers HAVE to be compatible, that's like complaining about your Time Crisis gun not working with GTA4. Sure they are similar themed games, but the cold fact is they are not the same game or made by the same company. So let's scold Harm. for not doing us a favor even though they are offering to do it anyway. They don't have to, they could just say "Kiss our A$$es" and you would moan right to the store and buy the game anyway, why???? Because it's an awesome game, in fact I will come and repost when I think of a word better than Awesome. Would I like the see GH hardware working on RB??? Sure would, but I would prefer not to demand something from someone that doesn't have to give me anything. It doesn't matter what a game maker gives you, you are always gonna ***** and moan about what they didn't give you.

If only EA /Harmonix wouldn't of lied and said that you could buy just the game and that most game controllers would be compatible. There is only ONE that is compatible, That one is the guitar that you can only get by buying the whole bundle. Even sadder people are reporting trouble with the guitar that comes with the bundle. It would be a different story if a person could buy a RockBullS#$! guitar by itself, but you can't and they lied. I could wait until February and buy the guitar for RockBullS#$!, but when I spend $60.00 of my hard earned money and can't play the game because a game devloper LIED to me, I get a little cranky!

[Hashmalau]

If it breaks and you know that you'll get only more crappy gear from them then be like me and return it to the store demanding a refund. Most stores cannot deny a refund on a hardware failure.

[AdamWill]

yes. you can use the XBox 360 GH3 guitar with XBox 360 RB.

[jedbeetle]

yes. you can use the XBox 360 GH3 guitar with XBox 360 RB.

i'm sorry, but can we just keep posts on this thread focused on complaining and sticking it to the man?

[rwthib]

What EA/Hamonix did borders on the line of deceptive trade practices.

For months leading up to the release they allowed reports of complete compatibility to circulate without denying them, thus they had knowledge that the information was in the marketplace.

Second they announced they would release a stand alone version of the product, further indicating that it would compatible.

Third, the game requires two guitars for full use but only one is provided. No market but third parties exist for a second.

Fourth, they fill the press with stories that if the product was not pre-ordered it might not be available before the holiday season, thus encouraging people to purchase based on the information available at that time (that is was compatible).

Fifth, the third party guitars were available a month before release and available for EA/HX QA to test. Since they had knowledge that the market believe they were compatible, they had a duty to inform them it was not. EA/HX had the release version, they had a duty because of the above to inform the market.

Instead they wait until most products on pre-order have shipped to let people know they were incompatible.

It doesn't matter whos fault it is they don't work together, it was up to EA/HX to inform the public that they would not work when they had knowledge they would not work.

That is the issue.

[bklynpnk]

All people defending hmx, need to take a long walk of a short peir.

sorry but just go ahead and die now, and leave the planet to the smarter people.

hmx assume the gh3 guitar would work, and made an ass out of themselves. if I could return the darned thing I would and I'd get a 360 version, but the software is open now, so no store will take it back.

if the box said 'only comptaible with rockband accerories' then they'd be covered. but it doesnt, it leads to to belive other accersories could be used.

this whole 'standard controller' thing is just b.s. p.r. cover for a company thats a deer stuck in the head lights. Theres no standard, its whatever the company decided to make it. the only standard are the buttons allowed. on the ps3, arrows, r1,2, triangle etc. they just map those to the controller.

all it would take is one of the geniuses are hmx or ea, or whoever to plug the gh3 guitar in and go, hey guys, this doesn't work.

but no they were all to lazy counting the millions they would make to even try that.

What other explaination is there? they screwed up. now they should ethier own up and fix it. with a patch. no need for red octane, plug in the gh3 guitar see what each button outputs, and then have rockband re-map those keys. Dont know if a patch like that is possible, but it doesn't require any code from r.o. hmx could do it on its own. its not like r.o. is outputing some secret code.

or allow us all to get a full refund because this game on the ps3 right now is bunk.

and to anyone that just bought the software... screw hmx. i'm not a lawsuit person, but you cannot play the game, and now cannot return it. So sue them.

--------

I'd like to hear one, valid defense of hmx. because honestly there isn't one

Ok, this is starting to border on ridiculous. First off, if the box said 'only comptaible with rockband accerories' then they'd be covered. but it doesnt, it leads to to belive other accersories could be used.
is not true. Ps3 users do not equal everyone. 1 guitar does not work, that is a simple fact. The xplorer model and the LP model for 360 works, so don't make it out like only RB accessories work. Second, RO has already made a statement saying they are going to work to make it compatible. Yet the whine fest still continues. What is that? "We want EA/HMX to respond to our crying party"....I would expect them to do so if RB controllers were not working, and they are doing something for the controllers via warranty. I even suspect recalls coming for the guitars...but the gh3 controller is NOT theirs. It is not about defending HMX, it is about having a little common sense. GH3 controllers don't even work with the previous installments of the game, so it sounds to me like 360 owners somehow lucked out and it works some reason. I do not claim to be a technical god....but if a controller is made that only works for the newest release of the series, not the previous 2....it sounds to me like something different was done to it, something that may create problems for another companies game.

[codman]

What EA/Hamonix did borders on the line of deceptive trade practices.

For months leading up to the release they allowed reports of complete compatibility to circulate without denying them, thus they had knowledge that the information was in the marketplace.

Second they announced they would release a stand alone version of the product, further indicating that it would compatible.

Third, the game requires two guitars for full use but only one is provided. No market but third parties exist for a second.

Fourth, they fill the press with stories that if the product was not pre-ordered it might not be available before the holiday season, thus encouraging people to purchase based on the information available at that time (that is was compatible).

Fifth, the third party guitars were available a month before release and available for EA/HX QA to test. Since they had knowledge that the market believe they were compatible, they had a duty to inform them it was not. EA/HX had the release version, they had a duty because of the above to inform the market.

Instead they wait until most products on pre-order have shipped to let people know they were incompatible.

It doesn't matter whos fault it is they don't work together, it was up to EA/HX to inform the public that they would not work when they had knowledge they would not work.

That is the issue.

Right on brother, AMEN!

[MF-PO'd]

Second, RO has already made a statement saying they are going to work to make it compatible.

Is that official statement somewhere? As far as I've heard, it came from someone receiving an e-mail reply from them that only said they are looking into the issue. Far from a statement that they are definitely going to fix the problem.

As long as the standalone PS3 product is on shelves, and people have purchased it with no way to play it, let the complaints keep coming loud and hard. The current situation is NOT acceptable to anyone with common sense. Even EA admits this product should not be on shelves right now.

[ManOwaR]

Add me to the class action lawsuit. I want a taste.

[Ghaleon]

Good grief, i can see being upset, but it doesn't take more than a intellect of a boiled cabbage to understand why the 360 GH3 guitar works; and only slightly more than that to guess at why the PS3 does not.

In regards to the 360:
When making the Strat, HMX wanted to make it compatible with the X-plorer; so they made it behave the same way.

When making the LP, RO wanted to make it compatible with the X-plorer; so they made the LP behave the same way.

On the PS3:
When making the Strat, HMX wanted to make it compatible with the LP; the best chance of this is to make it behave like the X-plorer on the 360, turns out it didn't work.

When making the LP (on the PS3), RO likely didn't want it compatible with the X-plorer; so they did something differently which, in turn, keeps it from working on Rock Band, which was designed for something similar to the X-plorer.


And finally, I would assume there is something in the basic controller recognition that keeps the 360 X-plorer from being used on the PS3.

[TKurata]

Yeah I want in on the class action suit. I can't even keep track of everybody who misinformed me on this GH3 issue. Not only that but my drums short out about every five minutes, mid-song, requiring me to unplug and replug my USB cord. It's giving me high blood pressure. I'd like to know what purchasers of the standalone game are up to, they must be even more pissed than me. What I'd like to have done:

1. Gamestop refund the money for my useless, overpriced PS3 version of Guitar Hero 3 which they promised would work with Rock Band.

2. Have Harmonix send me a working drum kit without me having to send mine in for repair.

3. Have Harmonix give people who bought the game the option to buy a second guitar NOW, whatever it takes. I really though Rock Band was supposed to be about a FOUR PLAYER EXPERIENCE hello Harmonix, what the hell is up?

Or just make the damn thing work on RB! Point #2 still stands, I don't want to wait around 6 weeks without a drumkit for Rock Band.

Rock Band and Harmonix completely and utterly let me down on this and I've been a HUGE fan since Frequency. Guess they got too big or something.

SHAME ON YOU HARMONIX.

-TK

[Gryffindor]

On the PS3:
When making the Strat, HMX wanted to make it compatible with the LP; the best chance of this is to make it behave like the X-plorer on the 360, turns out it didn't work.

When making the LP (on the PS3), RO likely didn't want it compatible with the X-plorer; so they did something differently which, in turn, keeps it from working on Rock Band, which was designed for something similar to the X-plorer.


And finally, I would assume there is something in the basic controller recognition that keeps the 360 X-plorer from being used on the PS3.

The main flaw in this argument is that to blame GH/RO they would have had to know what code/mapping HMX was using with its guitars. I can guarantee that they didn't possess that knowledge.

Nowhere on any of the packaging for GH3 does it state that their game will work with any other controller. In fact, it states that it will only work with THEIR controller. THEY were honest while HMX was not.

[rwthib]

Nov 1. EA CEO Riccitiello said unless you pre-order Rock Band or get in line on launch day, "unless you have a buddy that works at one of our retailers you're not gonna have it at Christmas."

Nov 5. PR Release:
Rock Band software will support a variety of third-party instrument peripherals

Nov 19. Report on IGN
Though we were lead to believe otherwise, the Guitar Hero III wireless Les Paul does not work with the PS3 version of Rock Band.

So on Nov 1 we are told that unless we get it now, we can not get it.
Nov 5 EA PR reassures us that the game supports a variety of third-party instruments.

Nov 19, the day it ships, News is released that there are no third-party instruments for PS3.

Again, I don't care why, what I care is that EA both allowed and fostered a false impression about their product.

Did EA have to support other products? No
But once they sent out a press release saying they would and then let others in the press believe that the support was their, they had an obligation to either make sure they had support or let people know that while they allow support, nothing was available.
They did neither.

[darien87]

Why would you say that? There are plenty of options. Buy another bundle. Or have a deadbeat friend that wants to play your game buy a bundle. Just because you aren't willing to do what it takes at this moment to acquire another controller does not mean it is impossible. How about calling Sony up and asking them why they have yet to make a good converter for the ps2 controllers. Otherwise, EA/HMX has been true with their statement of most. 1 controller does not work, the ps3 LP. That leaves the RB controller, the 360 LP and the LP xplorer.

The idea of your statement floors me completely. Now it you will excuse me, I am going to call up Microsoft and complain that my blu ray disks won't play in the addon drive.You cannot be serious. That has got to be about the most ******ed statement I've ever read. Do you actually expect me to purchase another bundle? What am I supposed to with the extra drum kit and microphone, open up a music store?!?!? And it isn't just 1 controller that doesn't work, NO controller works, other than the one that came in the box!!! I even tried my old guitar that came with GH 1; the same guitar that I've been using for GH, GH 2, and GH 80's. Guess what??? That one doesn't work either!!!

If RB is really built on "open" standards as EA claims, why doesn't this controller work?!?!?

Bottom line is that EA said that RB would be compatible with other controllers, and it isn't!! That's straight-up false advertising.

[darien87]

I am one of the irritated consumers with Rock Band and it's lack of compatibility.
I was really excited to get the bundle package, I didn't realize I wouldn't be able to have a second guitar until 2008. I played the Xbox version in the stores and noticed the Guitar Hero guitar worked with Rock Band.

So I ran out and purchased Guitar Hero 3 (after realizing I was going to spend $100 for a sorta good game but mainly a guitar). When I unboxed it and realized neither of the controllers worked for either game I was hot with anger.
Now I have two games, two equal controllers and can't use both on either!

Look for my Guitar Hero III on eBay, it'll be cheap since it's used once!

Oh by the way, my Rock Band guitar downstrum broke after about 4 hours of use. The next day the upstrum broke. I'm now forced to press the arrow buttons. Perhaps this is why they are waiting to release the guitar, get the bugs knocked out (and me and many others are the test rats).The same thing happened to me. But my guitar lasted 2 days before breaking at least. :mad: I'm still waiting on my replacement guitar. I was told it would ship yesterday, but according to UPS it still hasn't shipped.

As soon as I get the replacement guitar, I'm returning this pile of crap!!!

[darien87]

Ok, this is starting to border on ridiculous. First off, if the box said 'only comptaible with rockband accerories' then they'd be covered. but it doesnt, it leads to to belive other accersories could be used.
is not true. Ps3 users do not equal everyone. 1 guitar does not work, that is a simple fact. The xplorer model and the LP model for 360 works, so don't make it out like only RB accessories work. Second, RO has already made a statement saying they are going to work to make it compatible. Yet the whine fest still continues. What is that? "We want EA/HMX to respond to our crying party"....I would expect them to do so if RB controllers were not working, and they are doing something for the controllers via warranty. I even suspect recalls coming for the guitars...but the gh3 controller is NOT theirs. It is not about defending HMX, it is about having a little common sense. GH3 controllers don't even work with the previous installments of the game, so it sounds to me like 360 owners somehow lucked out and it works some reason. I do not claim to be a technical god....but if a controller is made that only works for the newest release of the series, not the previous 2....it sounds to me like something different was done to it, something that may create problems for another companies game.Dude, get your facts straight before you continue to make an idiot out of yourself. NO guitar works with the PS 3 other than the one that comes in the box. Stop being a fanboy and get your head out of your butt!!! So right now, there is NO way for a PS 3 owner to be able to play the game as it was intended or advertised, other than buying 2 bundles!!! That is completely unacceptable, and false advertising on the part of EA and Harmonix.

[bklynpnk]

Dude, get your facts straight before you continue to make an idiot out of yourself. NO guitar works with the PS 3 other than the one that comes in the box. Stop being a fanboy and get your head out of your butt!!! So right now, there is NO way for a PS 3 owner to be able to play the game as it was intended or advertised, other than buying 2 bundles!!! That is completely unacceptable, and false advertising on the part of EA and Harmonix.

How about actually reading the post before you make yourself look the fool. I never said there was another controller that works for the ps3, nor did HMX state that most 3rd parties would work for the ps3. It was general statement for the game. Therefore, most third party controllers DO. And the SG models do not work, not because of HMX and rock band, but because they are ps2 controller that have not been properly dealt with via sony or hmx or whoever.

Look. I'm not saying it is right or fair, I'm saying stop whining like little girls and see what they do. There are a lot of issues to attend to for them and I am sure the last on the list is to attend to a pity party on the forums, until a resolution has been found.

[TKurata]

How about actually reading the post before you make yourself look the fool. I never said there was another controller that works for the ps3, nor did HMX state that most 3rd parties would work for the ps3. It was general statement for the game. Therefore, most third party controllers DO. And the SG models do not work, not because of HMX and rock band, but because they are ps2 controller that have not been properly dealt with via sony or hmx or whoever.

Look. I'm not saying it is right or fair, I'm saying stop whining like little girls and see what they do. There are a lot of issues to attend to for them and I am sure the last on the list is to attend to a pity party on the forums, until a resolution has been found.

"It was general statement for the game. Therefore, most third party controllers DO."

What the hell does that mean? I'm AMAZED by how many people defend Harmonix on this issue. Many of us have an Xbox and a PS3 and had to choose between consoles when GH3 came out, for compatibility. Now we're stuck with a big pile of crap. Like I mentioned earlier, my drums barely work.

bylnpnk, your statement is moronic.

[SoulScreme]

"It was general statement for the game. Therefore, most third party controllers DO."

What the hell does that mean? I'm AMAZED by how many people defend Harmonix on this issue. Many of us have an Xbox and a PS3 and had to choose between consoles when GH3 came out, for compatibility. Now we're stuck with a big pile of crap. Like I mentioned earlier, my drums barely work.

bylnpnk, your statement is moronic.

While your drums have nothing to do with this, I agree. I think that the sentiment to sue EA/Harmonix is silly, but I am pretty pissed by this. I am more pissed by the fact that the only Harmonix word out of Harmonix is some canned PR crap. I want a simple yes or no on whether or not it will be fixed. I don't need a time frame or an apology, just as yes or no.

[TKurata]

I just got off the phone with EA customer support...gotta hand it to them, they were helpful. Doesn't fix the GH3 issue, but they are shipping replacement drums before I send back the defective kit.

Also, the rep said that there should be an announcement this week regarding GH3 compatibility issues...he said the announcement would be posted in these forums.

[botnic]

I just got off the phone with EA customer support...gotta hand it to them, they were helpful. Doesn't fix the GH3 issue, but they are shipping replacement drums before I send back the defective kit.

Also, the rep said that there should be an announcement this week regarding GH3 compatibility issues...he said the announcement would be posted in these forums.

NICE. That is something to look forward too. Of course, who knows how much a single rep actually knows, but we will see. It's just nice to see that there is some movement on this issue.