Either Tool is arrogant or Activision is lazy.

[mimic]

Or both.

I don't like the tool venue in ghwt. It's distracting and annoying. And I thought there would be some claymation but that's beside the point.

I made a setlist, chose some songs, picked a venue and played it. No problem. Then I made another setlist with schism in it. I'm playing and I realize it's the tool venue and I didn't remember picking it, or even being asked to.

So I test it out, make a setlist, pick a tool song along with some others and sure enough it doesn't ask me the venue and goes straight for the tool one.

I posted this on gamefaqs and said it's horribly lazy to not want to make character animations for the tool songs. Someone replied that tool refused to let avatars play their songs. That if they were to be in a rhythm game the songs would have to be played using artwork only.

I was unable to find any info on that being true or not. If it is one of my favorite bands are friggen arrogant and need to have a wakeup call.

[Inpheksion]

I ask, why is it important to ask that on these forums?


You got your tool, please do not complain to us. We are happy with the prog we received, such as Dream Theater.

[Stahlbrand]

False dichotomy much?

[LORDJUJU]

I like it. But why you have buy gigs is beyond me.

[mimic]

I ask, why is it important?


You got your tool, stop b*tching.

Was important enough for you to read this thread. And to post in it. It was important enough for me to make a thread about it for you to read and post in.

It's all relative I guess.

[mimic]

False dichotomy much?

Your big words make me feel stupid.

[Inpheksion]

Was important enough for you to read this thread. And to post in it. It was important enough for me to make a thread about it for you to read and post in.

It's all relative I guess.

No, but the complaining is not necessary, this is the RB general forums, this would most likely be a better topic for the other site.


I am a believer that if you get something, and you complain about it, that something should be taken away.

So, would you rather there be NO tool in GH:WT?



EDIT: and after looking at your profile picture, I find you highly hypocritical; I hate hypocrites.

[Bearclaw]

Your big words make me feel stupid.
Your big stupid makes me feel words :(

[tsl141]

I ask, why is it important?


You got your tool, stop b*tching.

Um maybe because he wants to know if Tool really asked Activision not to use Avatars if they were to be in the game...? Maybe this is a reason why Tool hasn't been in RB yet...?

Stop acting like a 10 year old and stop flaming someone for asking a simple question. There's no need for that.

[JoshuaB81285]

Or both.

I don't like the tool venue in ghwt. It's distracting and annoying. And I thought there would be some claymation but that's beside the point.

I made a setlist, chose some songs, picked a venue and played it. No problem. Then I made another setlist with schism in it. I'm playing and I realize it's the tool venue and I didn't remember picking it, or even being asked to.

So I test it out, make a setlist, pick a tool song along with some others and sure enough it doesn't ask me the venue and goes straight for the tool one.

I posted this on gamefaqs and said it's horribly lazy to not want to make character animations for the tool songs. Someone replied that tool refused to let avatars play their songs. That if they were to be in a rhythm game the songs would have to be played using artwork only.

I was unable to find any info on that being true or not. If it is one of my favorite bands are friggen arrogant and need to have a wakeup call.

Yeeeah, I remember reading in several different previews and stuff, that the only way Tool would agree to being in a music rhythm game was to not have avatars playing their music. LAme as hell I know, but whatever.

[instantdeath999]

I believe Tool wanted it that way.

[Inpheksion]

Um maybe because he wants to know if Tool really asked Activision not to use Avatars if they were to be in the game...? Maybe this is a reason why Tool hasn't been in RB yet...?

Stop acting like a 10 year old and stop flaming someone for asking a simple question. There's no need for that.

Ahem, In what way was I acting like a ten year old? I use proper grammar, correct spelling, etcetera, and I was not flaming, I was making a point. Also this is not the place for asking that, as none of us work there, and none of us are members of tooL.

[mimic]

No, but the complaining is not necessary, this is the RB general forums, this would most likely be a better topic for the other site.


I am a believer that if you get something, and you complain about it, that something should be taken away.

So, would you rather there be NO tool in GH:WT?



EDIT: and after looking at your profile picture, I find you highly hypocritical; I hate hypocrites.

I wasn't aware I was complaining or whining. I was just wondering if anyone else heard about tools demands. And that if they were making them I consider it arrogant. I'm not going to cry though. Just wondering if maybe hmx said no to their stupid demands.

Are you seriously WHINING at me for making this thread in the general forum??? I've seen a million ghwt threads in the last couple days in the rock band forum. This is the general forum, to discuss things that are NOT rock band. Last time I checked ghwt is not rock band (no matter how hard they tried to copy it). I'm a member here, I have no interest joining the gh forums.

[Inpheksion]

Or both.

I don't like the tool venue in ghwt. It's distracting and annoying.

Proof? ninja ten chars?

[Bearclaw]

Proof? ninja ten chars?
Did you just ask for proof of an opinion?

[Inpheksion]

Did you just ask for proof of an opinion?

No, he said "I wasn't complaining or whining"

and the "?" after the word proof, was summarizing the sentence "Is this proof enough?"

into

"Proof?"

[Der_Lex]

This is turning into bickering, guys. Settle down.

I too believe that Tool didn't want avatars playing their song in the game. Although it doesn't bother me personally, it could be perceived as prima donna behavior. I'll be able to judge the venue for myself when Europe gets the game next month.

[afterstasis]

i agree that the tool venues look terrible, but i also believe that bands should have every reasonable right to decide how their music is portrayed.

i think this particular example is pretty silly (particularly considering the final product), but i'm sure many people would think the way i choose to deal with my music is pretty silly as well.

[zack10house]

I like the venue (but keep in mind I'm not a huge Tool fan. when Schism came on I had one of those "I know this song!" moments)

[mimic]

No, he said "I wasn't complaining or whining"

and the "?" after the word proof, was summarizing the sentence "Is this proof enough?"

into

"Proof?"

I gave my opinion on the venue, it's distracting and annoying. I choose not to play in it. Which set the story up on how I noticed the venue was chosen for me. I fail to see how that is whining. Same can be said about you complaining where I posted this thread. Might be considered whining.

I'm done with you now, no use feeding the trolls.

[Inpheksion]

This is turning into bickering, guys. Settle down.

I too believe that Tool didn't want avatars playing their song in the game. Although it doesn't bother me personally, it could be perceived as prima donna behavior. I'll be able to judge the venue for myself when Europe gets the game next month.

Yes... in the past tool has been slightly... 'over-protective,' shall we say, of their music

[My name is Fez]

i agree that the tool venues look terrible, but i also believe that bands should have every reasonable right to decide how their music is portrayed.

i think this particular example is pretty silly (particularly considering the final product), but i'm sure many people would think the way i choose to deal with my music is pretty silly as well.

I haven't seen it myself, but I'd assume they'd want it to follow their videos and general artistic style which they're quite well known for, which isn't necessarily an arrogant thing in my opinion.

It's just kind of lame.

[Mex]

I liken the Tool venue thing to AC/DC in RB. HMX did what they had to do to get AC/DC tracks in the game and Activision did what they had to do to get Tool in their game.

The only difference I see is that Tool isn't good enough to make demands like that. But that's just an opinion.

[Inpheksion]

I liken the Tool venue thing to AC/DC in RB. HMX did what they had to do to get AC/DC tracks in the game and Activision did what they had to do to get Tool in their game.

The only difference I see is that Tool isn't good enough to make demands like that. But that's just an opinion.

Tool is good, but not the best, I would take me some Dream Theater over them.


EDIT:

I also think there should be a pack called the "Epic Pack"

"Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" - Dream Theater

"2112" - Rush

"The Wall (Full Song)" - Floyd

"Eyes of The World" - The Dead

"Free Bird (Play it Pretty For Atlanta LIVE)" - Skynyrd

[DarthAthema]

i agree that the tool venues look terrible, but i also believe that bands should have every reasonable right to decide how their music is portrayed.

i think this particular example is pretty silly (particularly considering the final product), but i'm sure many people would think the way i choose to deal with my music is pretty silly as well.

This is true. The bottom line is the artist should have the right to decide how their music is handled, no matter how ridiculous it may seem. Tool's obsession with making it seem as if their music is not made by humans is eccentric, but that's always been their shtick. It's okay to not like it though.

[toymachineSH]

I think it's cool
but Tool is one of my favourite bands >_>

[Mex]

Tool is good, but not the best, I would take me some Dream Theater over them.

There are hundreds of bands that I'd take over Tool. I'm not saying they're bad, I do like some of their songs, but I don't see what the big deal is.

[zack10house]

Tool is good, but not the best, I would take me some Dream Theater over them.

GHWT has Pull Me Under :)

[mimic]

i agree that the tool venues look terrible, but i also believe that bands should have every reasonable right to decide how their music is portrayed.

i think this particular example is pretty silly (particularly considering the final product), but i'm sure many people would think the way i choose to deal with my music is pretty silly as well.

That's one way of looking at it. But think about what it would be like if every band made demands. Having hmx jumping through hoops to get bands in the game.

There are some talented actors out there and it sickens me when I read something about how they have crazy demands of stuff for their dressing room. And how they will threaten leaving if the demands aren't met. Tool is a great band, but acting like they are great and pulling the "no avatars or you can have a game without tool" is just gross.

With the decline in record sales due to piracy you'd think bands would be begging to be in games not devs making venues and concessions for them.

[Inpheksion]

GHWT has Pull Me Under :)

Panic Attack + Constant Motion


and I'm not psychic, but I'm guessing this isn't the last of DT that RB will see.

[afterstasis]

Tool's obsession with making it seem as if their music is not made by humans is eccentric, but that's always been their shtick.

i didn't know this was their goal, actually.
i can really only suggest they do a much better job, because even as a total non-fan i know two members names and could probably recognize both their singer and drummer on the street.

i do appreciate the shtick, but i don't think it works at all for such a popular band...
truly bizarre bands like von lmo, and even to some extent jandek, do a far better job at creating and maintaining this type of mysticism.

[afterstasis]

That's one way of looking at it. But think about what it would be like if every band made demands. Having hmx jumping through hoops to get bands in the game.

There are some talented actors out there and it sickens me when I read something about how they have crazy demands of stuff for their dressing room. And how they will threaten leaving if the demands aren't met. Tool is a great band, but acting like they are great and pulling the "no avatars or you can have a game without tool" is just gross.

With the decline in record sales due to piracy you'd think bands would be begging to be in games not devs making venues and concessions for them.

oh, i agree.
i don't criticize HMX for it since it doesn't really affect the platform as a whole, but if AC/DC had somehow caused rock band 2 to be a wal-mart exclusive or something even more silly, i would have definitely been pretty irritated (and i shop at wal-mart).

i'm also not too fond of artists who have no sense of humbleness, but that pretty much goes for any human being (except neil diamond of course).

[Inpheksion]

Keenan, while he is a talented Lyricist and Vocalist, should really go shove his head up his own ass, he is a very arrogant a**h*le

[toymachineSH]

The Residents are the best mysterious band

[instantdeath999]

There are hundreds of bands that I'd take over Tool. I'm not saying they're bad, I do like some of their songs, but I don't see what the big deal is.

I'm not the biggest fan in the world, but the big deal is simply that Tool have not licensed any of their music in over 12 years. The fact that Guitar Hero is getting them is very significant.

[afterstasis]

The Residents are the best mysterious band

definitely top of the line, although i haven't heard anything more recent than "animal lover" (which was pretty good).

[Mex]

I'm not the biggest fan in the world, but the big deal is simply that Tool have not licensed any of their music in over 12 years. The fact that Guitar Hero is getting them is very significant.

Is it?

More significant then say.......AC/DC?

I'm more interested in the gameplay and diversity of the music as opposed to a single band.

[instantdeath999]

Is it?

More significant then say.......AC/DC?

I'm more interested in the gameplay and diversity of the music as opposed to a single band.

I've always thought they are trying to appeal to the "hardcore" players out there with Tool, since they are not exactly a casual, party friendly group like AC/DC. Just targeting another demographic, something I think GH had done pretty well on (a country song on disc is a pretty good step, and a rap song, even if the rap song is terrible).

Of course, Tool do make some fun charts, in my opinion.

[Jaeger]

I saw a video about this over at IGN and I was under the impression that the first time you play a Tool song you have to play it at that gig with no avatars. I thought "Odd, but understandable since they're really into art."

But if they have you play at that place every time it just makes Tool seem really pretensions. And I enjoy Tool as a casual fan if that means anything to anyone.(Though probably not.)

[kiggidykev]

I didn't much care for their specialized arena in GHWT. It was so boring to not have any characters or crowd or anything.

The way the IGN review I read talked about how awesome it was to have a Tool-themed arena, I expected a lot more.

[cromartie90000]

I LIKE Tool, but Vicarious is the only fun song, I like all three songs in the game but they are loooong and get boring as hell. In addition to being long and having big gaps with no notes (I play on guitar) The venue is an eyesore. It adds to the bore by NOT DOING ANYTHING. After a few minutes those weird worm things show up. They look hideous. I was very disappointed.

[Mystlyfe77]

That's one way of looking at it. But think about what it would be like if every band made demands. Having hmx jumping through hoops to get bands in the game.

There are some talented actors out there and it sickens me when I read something about how they have crazy demands of stuff for their dressing room. And how they will threaten leaving if the demands aren't met. Tool is a great band, but acting like they are great and pulling the "no avatars or you can have a game without tool" is just gross.

With the decline in record sales due to piracy you'd think bands would be begging to be in games not devs making venues and concessions for them.

There's a difference between asking for pretzels and red M&Ms and insisting that your art be handled in a certain way. They weren't saying "if you give me this and this, we'll let you use our music," but rather "if you use our music, we'd want it handled in a certain way."
Is this any more pretentious than having a light show during a concert? Than only using venues that can support that light show?
Is it any more pretentious than creating music videos that aren't exactly MTV friendly (adult content in various forms)?

The bottom line is the artist has the fundamental right to have their art treated in a certain way. They don't have to opt to have the visual elements of their artwork mitigated just to gain publicity. I'll let the piracy comment sit (another issue for another time), but the bottom line is that some artists (Tool included) often care more about their music than their wallets.

[Bearclaw]

I LIKE Tool, but Vicarious is the only fun song, I like all three songs in the game but they are loooong and get boring as hell. In addition to being long and having big gaps with no notes (I play on guitar) The venue is an eyesore. It adds to the bore by NOT DOING ANYTHING. After a few minutes those weird worm things show up. They look hideous. I was very disappointed.
I could not have put it into better words myself. Played the Tool set on expert guitar and found myself so bored it felt like it was an hour long set.

[instantdeath999]

I LIKE Tool, but Vicarious is the only fun song, I like all three songs in the game but they are loooong and get boring as hell. In addition to being long and having big gaps with no notes (I play on guitar) The venue is an eyesore. It adds to the bore by NOT DOING ANYTHING. After a few minutes those weird worm things show up. They look hideous. I was very disappointed.


I could not have put it into better words myself. Played the Tool set on expert guitar and found myself so bored it felt like it was an hour long set.

Welcome to progressive rock, or in this case, progressive metal. I love it, personally.

[Bearclaw]

Welcome to progressive rock, or in this case, progressive metal. I love it, personally.
Would you define Dream Theater is progressive metal? Because I sure do and I find their songs to be a blast to listen to and play. I actually enjoy prog, but these songs were just incredibly unappealing in-game.

[instantdeath999]

Would you define Dream Theater is progressive metal? Because I sure do and I find their songs to be a blast to listen to and play. I actually enjoy prog, but these songs were just incredibly unappealing in-game.

Yes, but a very different kind.

Think of it like this... compare Tool to Pink Floyd. If a Pink Floyd song were to come out... lets say Money. That song would have tons of breaks, but if you are a fan, would be awesome to play.

That's what it's like for Tool. I'm a decent fan of them, so I don't get as annoyed by the breaks. It also helps that they are great on the other three instruments IMO.

[afterstasis]

i find dream theater to be much more bombastic, even in their songwriting... so they have a lot more variation and more frequent changes.

that's not necessarily a good or bad thing (i kinda dislike both bands, but definitely prefer DT), but can make a pretty huge difference when it comes to gameplay.

[Bearclaw]

Yes, but a very different kind.

Think of it like this... compare Tool to Pink Floyd. If a Pink Floyd song were to come out... lets say Money. That song would have tons of breaks, but if you are a fan, would be awesome to play.

That's what it's like for Tool. I'm a decent fan of them, so I don't get as annoyed by the breaks. It also helps that they are great on the other three instruments IMO.
I don't think breaks are a bad thing, but the completely repetitive and boring guitar part for long parts of the song I do not enjoy. If the parts I do play are not fun, but long and drawn out then what's the point? At least songs like Blitzkrieg Bop don't overstay their welcome by being 7 minutes long.

[instantdeath999]

I don't think breaks are a bad thing, but the completely repetitive and boring guitar part for long parts of the song I do not enjoy. If the parts I do play are not fun, but long and drawn out then what's the point? At least songs like Blitzkrieg Bop don't overstay their welcome by being 7 minutes long.

Tool is one of those bands that I think is better to listen to than to play.

However, even though the guitar part isn't that great (the game doesn't capture odd time signatures very well), the bass, drums, and vocals are all very fun.

[bmcorrier]

Welcome to progressive rock, or in this case, progressive metal. I love it, personally.

Agreed. Tool, being one of my top 3 favorite bands, I loved playing all of these songs, and the venue. The only thing that slightly bugged me was the flashing lights in Vicarious during the breakdown. If you are an avid Tool fan, like myself, you will understand how Tool is about their music. They usually don't like their music played on MTV, they don't have their albums on iTunes (10,000 Days is an exception), and is hard to find it to download in places. One of the main reasons IS the artwork itself. If you ever buy a Tool album and really look at all of the contents inside, the artwork is astounding. They also believe you get more of an experience in seeing a live show rather than seeing them on TV. Yes, they are a bit stingy about it, but they do have good points, and are a phenominal band.


...And I don't know why we are talking about this in the RB forums.

[Al_Dags]

Tool insisted on it being about Alex Grey's art work.

http://www.my360.com.au/VideoDetail.aspx?id=624

[audiophile42]

With the decline in record sales due to piracy you'd think bands would be begging to be in games not devs making venues and concessions for them.

Every time Tool goes out on tour, they consistently have one of the most monetarily successful and biggest ticket selling tours currently out there in modern rock. When they come out with an album, they fill up arenas for the next 2-3 years with tours. And many of their fans go to see them multiple times per tour. Then the merchandise, we've all see lots of Tool t-shirts out there.

In short, as much as Tool is an 'about the music band', they are certainly doing very well financially. They didn't need to license anything (like they haven't in the past), so why would they beg? GH wanted Tool in the game, and they did what Tool wanted to get it. GH could have just said no to their terms.

[Chemical Phoenix]

I wouldn't mind the Tool venue, if it wasn't so horribly done and looked cheap. I mean it just looks lame, especially the one with the two faces floating on the side, ugh

[Bearclaw]

Tool is one of those bands that I think is better to listen to than to play.

Now here is something we agree on ;)

[PaperMario21]

Or both.

I don't like the tool venue in ghwt. It's distracting and annoying. And I thought there would be some claymation but that's beside the point.

I made a setlist, chose some songs, picked a venue and played it. No problem. Then I made another setlist with schism in it. I'm playing and I realize it's the tool venue and I didn't remember picking it, or even being asked to.

So I test it out, make a setlist, pick a tool song along with some others and sure enough it doesn't ask me the venue and goes straight for the tool one.

I posted this on gamefaqs and said it's horribly lazy to not want to make character animations for the tool songs. Someone replied that tool refused to let avatars play their songs. That if they were to be in a rhythm game the songs would have to be played using artwork only.

I was unable to find any info on that being true or not. If it is one of my favorite bands are friggen arrogant and need to have a wakeup call.

you have way too much time on your hands to be bothered by something as lack of characters in tool venue.
from what I remember it was how tool wanted to do it(to somewhat resemble their concert), to make their venue all artsy and not being bothered by characters on screen rocking out.
I like tool venue a lot.
it's the music that counts :cool:

[LordMoon]

OK take a deep breath.

Now stop and think about it for a second....this is Tool we're talking about. Have you seen their CD cases lately? When is the last time you saw them in their own music video? And have you been to any of their shows?

Tool is very big on the visuals that go with their music. If you have a chance to go to one of their shows I highly recommend it. I have no doubt that stated they did not want avatars on a stage. Arrogance, maybe? But Tool considers themselves artists and have sued their own label over how their music is presented.

[jcunning_1974]

In my opinion, the Tool venue in GHWT is awesome. I love it. It's a great example of a band taking control of how their music is presented in a game like this and the game developer being willing to work with the band. The end result is a very fun venue with great visuals. Plus, the songs are some of the funnest to play in the game. Every instrument is fun for each of the 3 songs.

However, I can see how the visuals in the Tool venue would be distracting to some players. I had a friend who got a headache from playing drums in the Tool venue from the flashing lights and had to stop playing for a bit after doing the full Tool set. So, it may not be for everyone.

I love it though and plan on playing the Tool songs a lot.

[killer_roach]

Being an off-again, on-again fan of Tool, I personally love the venues (and yes, the band is highly art-driven... there has been talk for years of them making a film project similar to The Wall). They're one of the few things that GHWT has going for it in the visuals department... but yeah, as great as some of their songs are, they basically chose recent hits of the band without consideration for back catalog or playability (c'mon, is Forty-Six and Two too much to ask for?).

As for the "no avatars" bit... come on, Maynard tries to basically hide or obscure himself even when he's on stage half the time. In that light, it kinda makes sense about not having anybody else hamming it up to one of his songs.

[Keebler]

"The Wall (Full Song)" - Floyd

There is no such song?

[killer_roach]

I think he's referring to all three parts of Another Brick In The Wall... although, for sheer epic purposes, I would go with either Echoes or Shine On You Crazy Diamond from them.

...that aside, I'd replace that in his list of epic songs with "Rime Of The Ancient Mariner" by Iron Maiden :)

[PuckJunkie]

I didn't hate it. I thought it was a little weird, but whatever. I guess if the Gorillaz were in RB or GH, we would see little animated characters making all the music? :D

I don't think it's fair to keep criticizing the OP for making this point in a Rock Band forum. It was put in the General section. Heck, there are threads on LittleBigPlanet, Fallout 3, and Taco Bell. I'm just happy it's in the section of the forum it belongs in.