How far are we away from a game that teaches you "real" guitar?

[Yzerman]

I am sure a lot of you have thought about this, but since the drums are a pretty decent simulation to playing real drums. Meaning if you can play drums on expert you at least have a decent base if you wanted to learn drums for real.

So I was wondering how far we are from a game that gives you a real guitar with 6 strings and teaches you how to play chords. Putting pressure sensors on each fret behind the strings, stuff like that. It could be very interesting as a how-to. Even if it gives you the basics, it would be more a simulation than a game but still. Anyone ever thought of this ?

[Sonofmogh]

They've got that already...it's called a guitar. I don't think it would be very practical to make a game like that...hard to make it work, less wide appeal, and it would be easier to just create a dvd lesson (that teaches you to play guitar like a game would) that you'd watch and play on a real guitar...I want that!

[Angry_Games]

just watch late-night tv and get that "Esteban" video that teaches you how to play.

It CAN be a game if you pretend in your mind lol.

[deepbluevibes]

http://icanplayguitar.net/fp.aspx?st=5702&e=video_detail&VideoName=ICPG30-MAS.swf
while i hate drake bell, and i think his show is the stupidest thing ever, this shows that such a product IS possible.

EDIT: http://icanplayguitar.net/icpg.aspx?st=10&e=icpglanding this video shows how the game plays.

[fcrick]

Guitar Hero or Rock Bank should add support for plugging in real guitars - lots of people learn to play the guitar, and i'm sure many/most of them would buy GH/RB if it had modes to let you play the game while slowly moving your guitar 'playing' from a very GH/RB-like playing to actual guitar playing with chords and stuff.

I've never bought a GH/RB title, and this is what stops me - support a real guitar, and I'll buy every game.

[MJDoja]

just watch late-night tv and get that "Esteban" video that teaches you how to play.

It CAN be a game if you pretend in your mind lol.

i lold a good one

[Angry_Games]

Guitar Hero or Rock Bank should add support for plugging in real guitars - lots of people learn to play the guitar, and i'm sure many/most of them would buy GH/RB if it had modes to let you play the game while slowly moving your guitar 'playing' from a very GH/RB-like playing to actual guitar playing with chords and stuff.

I've never bought a GH/RB title, and this is what stops me - support a real guitar, and I'll buy every game.

learning a real guitar takes years, not a month of playing Guitar Hero or Rock Band on Expert. I've been playing 15 years and I'm still not as good as most out there, but it takes a good long time to learn it, most would get frustrated at a game with a real guitar (trust me on that, it's one of those things you THINK you want until you get it then you come into forums screaming how stupid it is lol)

[mind_in_rewind]

I've never bought a GH/RB title, and this is what stops me - support a real guitar, and I'll buy every game.Your loss. I play guitar AND really enjoy GH/RB. They're different things altogether, and I enjoy them for different reasons.

[admanimal]

Would it even be possible to map the strings of a guitar to the 5 colored notes in a consistent manner?

[Angry_Games]

Would it even be possible to map the strings of a guitar to the 5 colored notes in a consistent manner?

no

5 notes x 1 'string' (the strummer)

vs

6 strings x 24 frets = not even 4 controllers plugged in simultaneously can have enough button combinations lol

[deepbluevibes]

no

5 notes x 1 'string' (the strummer)

vs

6 strings x 24 frets = not even 4 controllers plugged in simultaneously can have enough button combinations lol

you must have missed my post in this thread...

[Daesania]

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/devlin/14689

[cromartie90000]

Well if it's any consolation... There are special edition guitars that have been gutted and re-built as guitar-hero controllers. It's a real electric guitar minus the strings, with a little strum bar and 5 buttons at the end of the neck.

They cost $399.00

That's a little excessive, I mean you can buy a REAL electric guitar for $199.99, and a ****e amp for about $100.00

You can buy a starter kit with guitar and everything you need to play it for $300.00
online, I went to guitar center and the guy built me a little starter kit for $350.00

[Daesania]

Here is the pic of the guitar referenced in that article i posted. It is currently 89 dollars at walmart.com.

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/02/70/84/43/0002708443855_500X500.jpg

[QueensoftheStoneAge]

learning a real guitar takes years, not a month of playing Guitar Hero or Rock Band on Expert. I've been playing 15 years and I'm still not as good as most out there, but it takes a good long time to learn it, most would get frustrated at a game with a real guitar (trust me on that, it's one of those things you THINK you want until you get it then you come into forums screaming how stupid it is lol)


I also play guitar (not nearly as long as you though) and I must say it is much more rewarding than playing a plastic guitar. I am interested in Rock Band solely for the drums. :D

[deepbluevibes]

Here is the pic of the guitar referenced in that article i posted. It is currently 89 dollars at walmart.com.

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/02/70/84/43/0002708443855_500X500.jpg

I like how I already posted about that in this thread three times and no one even noticed. lmfao

[Angry_Games]

I also play guitar (not nearly as long as you though) and I must say it is much more rewarding than playing a plastic guitar. I am interested in Rock Band solely for the drums. :D

I'll definitely agree with you about playing a real guitar. However since no one else other than my drummer buddy plays an instrument, but we all love the music, it's very enjoyable to play these games (I suppose just like racing games are cool since none of us are real race car drivers etc lol).

As for that wal-mart guitar, well if you think that will teach you how to play a real guitar, you should buy it lol.

[Micker]

A game like that would be too hard and wouldn't be a game, more of a guitar tutor. It takes a LONG time to learn guitar. I have been playing for a few years and still suck. You need to practice all the time and really learn the chords, notes and scales to get good, on top of coordinating your fingers and hands. Your right strum hand is a lot harder then you think, because you often have to pluck just one or two strings, not just strum all 6 all the time.

[Daesania]

I like how I already posted about that in this thread three times and no one even noticed. lmfao
/shrug. I just skim threads, i dont have time to read everyone's responses, I just read the OP and that's it for the most part.

[SuperTr00p3r]

I've actually thought about this too, and don't think it would be all that difficult. All you have to do is use a usb connection to the input of the guitar, which I'm pretty sure they already have on the market, and then use pitch matching in the same fashion that they have for the vocals in the game. You would just have to make sure that you tuned your guitar before you started playing, but that's what any good guitar player does anyways. Granted, the challege would be how to display the notes due to the number of strings and frets, and I think that trying to read scrolling tab would be a pain.

[Oblong]

Surprised no one has mentioned the Yamaha EZ-AG line of guitars with lighted fret buttons for teaching that have been out for years.

http://music.yamaha.com/products/main.html?productId=105711&hierarchy_id=16148_16140

[xfMike]

Your loss. I play guitar AND really enjoy GH/RB. They're different things altogether, and I enjoy them for different reasons.

QFT

I'm in the same boat myself.

[batsu336]

I'll chip in from a guitarist's point of view. I am not a virtuoso, but I play in a band and we tour the clubs in my state, so I hold my own...

Someone already mentioned the Yamaha series. It is a real guitar with LED lights recessed into the fret board. You just position your fingers on the lights. The Drake Bell guitar is a toy. It will not teach you anything, but kids would like it.

As far as a controller, I see 3 problems. The biggie, which I have not seen addressed, is button size. One problems for beginners is accidentally muffling strings next to the string they are playing, causing a "plink" sound. You would have to design very thin buttons to simulate the string size and make it realistic, with making it too fragile. Pushing a button an inch wide gives you no feel for a string.
Second, the number of buttons. Ok, there are 12 notes in an octave, and the simplest chords, barre chords, require playing 2 notes at the same time. So at minimum you would need 24 buttons and 12 different color notes to play a simple chord. Open chords play 3 or more notes at the same time across three or more strings, including "open strings". Opem strings mean you strum the string but do not have a finger on a fret. I don't know how you would simulate that. On the other hand, if you wanted to focus on lead, you could play a pentatonic scale lead, which usees the same 5 notes all up and down the fretboard. However, if you wanted to switch to a different scale, or even from major to minor, you need different notes.
Third, your picking/struming hand needs to get used to real strings instead of a flipper. Pinch harmonics, the squeals made famous by Eddie Van Halen and now, Zack Wylde, are made by positioning your strumming hand in a precise manner against the edge of the string as you pick the string. This can't be practiced without an actual string, and each guitar has a different harmonic sweet spot. Finger picking is widely used is rock ballads ( I do it when I play the opening of Wanted Dead or Alive. Again, you need strings beneath your picking hand to practice this.
If you have something that does not meet all these criteria, you are not really learning much that will help you on a guitar.

So in short, if you want to have a gutar that helps you learn to play, buy one with an LED fretboard. I've never tried one because I learned to play back when the Atari 2600 was still sold, but they look like they would be helpful.

Whew....sorry that went on like that.

[JDillard]

See, I was thinking about this the other day while I was waiting for RB to come out. You know how they have the digital guitars now. Can't really remember the guitar, but you can tune it with the push of a button. Well if this is possible then why is it not possible to use this same concept. I mean have the digital pickup find the note for a certain string and transfer that to the game as a button press. I mean how many different notes are on each string for a standard size guitar? The pickup would be able to recognize which string was played and then based on the note for that string check it against what should have been played. And as far as chords go, do basically the same thing. I can see how it would work in my head, and can almost see how the programming could possibly work. Any of that make sense?

[Julio_No_Mas]

No.

Rock Band will never simulate real guitar.

And I'm glad of that.

[JDillard]

No.

Rock Band will never simulate real guitar.

And I'm glad of that.
We were not talking about rock band simulating a real guitar, we were talking about "a" game simulating a real guitar, and if it is possible or not. Or at least that is what I got from the conversation.

[fcrick]

Its not impossible - they just need to do it. Who would have thought people would be playing 5-button guitars together over the internet, but they did it.

Learning to play a real guitar does take years of practice - why not help make those years a little more exciting, and help you out with a game while you still sound like ****?

[Hanover]

Wow...I think I'm going to get that Yamaha guitar...its not that expensive either.

[batsu336]

I mean how many different notes are on each string for a standard size guitar?

There are either 22 or 24 frets per string, depending on the style of neck you have. Most standard guitars, including Gibson and Fender, have 22, while ESP and Ibanez often have 24 frets. Due in part to the popularity of Fender and Gibson, 22 fret necks are the standard for most other guitar makers.

There are 12 notes per octave, so the 24 fret neck gives a little more sound range at the expense of feeling different, though the tuning is the same.

[Fatal1ty_Reaper]

It would be hard to do but is VERY possible. I even once saw a custom made guitar controller that was a cross between a real guitar and a GH guitar, it used pressure sensors for the strings and a speaker to pick up when the guitar was strummed. It was VERY crude and difficult to use but it worked (kinda, and due to the fact that GH/RB does not use direct tabs it didn't work to the extent of actually "teaching" you anything, though it was interesting lol), with a real company backing such an accessory I think it could be done more effectively.

[Cowbell Enthusiast]

What if you made a guitar in which had all 6 strings and 22 frets but inside each fret was a sensor. It would be similiar to GH/RB and the strings would be muted to avoid distraction when playing songs. You wouldn't be able to do bends, harmonics etc. but it would be pretty close to emulating guitar. Of course it would be ridiculously hard to display and scrolling tab is the only way it could work.

[Malev0lent]

I've thought of this before, and I believe what you would need is a MIDI guitar. A midi guitar is basically like a keyboard synthesizer, but with a guitar. When you play a note, it sends note data rather than sound. This could be used with a video game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Roland_GR-500_guitar_synth_.jpg

The other alternative is you do something similar to the microphone, where it recognizes note pitches and gives you a score based on your performance. However, there's usually multiple notes playing at once on a guitar, and recognizing an exact chord might be difficult.

The problem lies in the screen interface, of course. The only way you could is with scrolling tablature or music notes, both of which a novice could never keep up with.

Basically, only people who already know guitar could play it, and it'd only let you know how good you are. It'd give people a way to form bands online, or practice remotely, but really it'd just be expensive and inpractical, and not a game anymore but rather an evolution in music.

I think what RedOctane and Harmonix did with guitar is brilliant, as it helps you feel like your playing guitar even though you aren't. While you aren't actually doing correct fingerings, you're still fretting and strumming notes, and pressing exact notes at exact times in rhythm.

While it won't directly help you learn guitar, it will help you build left hand/right hand coordination, a sense of rhythm, and finger speed, all of which would greatly help with learning real guitar. And if you already know real guitar, I find it's a great way to excercize your struming and finger speed for solos.

The mental aspect however, is completely different between the two.

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, a real guitar game. Don't bother. Get a tutorial DVD like others have said and download your favorite songs' guitar tabs online and learn them.

[penelope]

I've actually thought if they did this without strings, but some type of touch-sensitive board, and used some type of button/switch/finger movement to handle things like hammer-ons and pull-offs, they could do it. A LOT of people don't continue with guitar, not because they can't play it, or don't get it, but because it HURTS to learn.

[CSPJAMZ]

Anyone remember this from the 80's?
The Synthaxe.
http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/synthaxe.html