Petition for hyperspeed

[wEEman33]

Why was this feature removed? Every incarnation of Guitar Hero since the PS2 version of GH II has had some sort of hyperspeed option, not to mention the fact that just about every other rhythm game on the market has some way of adjusting the speed of its scrolling notes (see: DDR, Beatmania, etc.).

Without hyperspeed, the note charts become much more difficult to read, and thus, more difficult to play.

It is my belief that a song's difficulty should come from being able to play it, not being able to figure out what you're supposed to play and when you're supposed to play it.

We can choose individual difficulty levels when picking songs, so why can't we choose individual scrolling speeds too?

Make it happen, Harmonix.

[morik_trask]

It wasn't removed. It was never in game in the first place, thankfully.

[arniejolt]

Yeah, a good thing it wasn't included since I bet you'd have tons of fun playing drums or vocals in Hyperspeed mode. If you're not breaking your drum peripheral with just the normal way of playing then Hyperspeed would have done the trick.

Could have been fun seeing somebody try to sing as fast as an auctioneer though.


-----
The Metal: Unabridged Version

Punk Rock: Sank into Swamp
New Wave: Sank into Swamp
Grunge: Caught Fire, Fell Over, Sank into Swamp
The Metal: Strongest in these Woods but Still Looking for a Bride with Huge Tracks of Land

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/ARNie00/kokoroscanherosig.jpg

my deviant gallery
http://arnie00.deviantart.com

[Haruka-chan]

Personally I've always found the angle of the fret bar more annoying than the lack of speed mods.

[Eman311]

No thanks, this game does not need it.

[KaYotiX]

Please Harmonix!!!

KEEP HYPERSPEED OFF Rockband!!!!!:cool:

[sa_nick]

Lol, this petition kinda backfired, huh?

[mind_in_rewind]

Here's another vote for NO Hyperspeed.

[HellishFiend]

I miss hyperspeed =(

[undertow]

Agreed, I vote for NO Hyperspeed.

[espher]

Yeah, a good thing it wasn't included since I bet you'd have tons of fun playing drums or vocals in Hyperspeed mode. If you're not breaking your drum peripheral with just the normal way of playing then Hyperspeed would have done the trick.

Could have been fun seeing somebody try to sing as fast as an auctioneer though.

Are you sure you understand how hyperspeed mode works?

[AdamWill]

for the benefit of the clueless people: hyperspeed does not change the speed of the song. you do not have to strum faster, hit faster, or sing faster. it simply increases the scroll speed of the note chart. this spreads the notes out and makes them (for most people) easier to read.

as the original poster said, every single commonly played rhythm game has a sensible variable speed option - except, for some bizarre reason, RB.

if you don't want to use it, then fine, you don't have to. but for those of us who prefer a faster scrolling chart, it can't hurt to patch it in.

[Ultrace]

I don't have anything against hyperspeed (we won't be using it here), there are so many other things that HMX can spend their time coding if they want to make improvements to the game... Characters playing multiple instruments, changing the band leader in WTB mode, etc. Hyperspeed really doesn't rank up there as far as I can tell.

[Quastor]

I do not think the vocalist would appreciate working with a guitarist who has to have hyperspeed on.

The switch to squares for notes helps clear up much of the confusion and clutter that GH saw. I'm glad Harmonix left this feature out - don't miss it at all.

[chaopolis]

Every time I log onto these message boards, there always seems to be new threads along the lines of...

PLZ HMX, RELEASE A PATCH TO INCLUDE BUNNY RABBITS!!!

THIS GAME SUX WITHOUT UPSIDE-DOWN LEFTY RIGHTY FLIPPY MODE!!!!!!


...

Seriously, people. Harmonix just released this game... JUST released it... Chill the friggity-frak out!

If the feature YOU want isn't in the game.... I'm... sorry... I truly am.

I didn't realize that having such a small and trivial feature would truly make or break the game for you.

[Angry_Games]

I do not think the vocalist would appreciate working with a guitarist who has to have hyperspeed on.

The switch to squares for notes helps clear up much of the confusion and clutter that GH saw. I'm glad Harmonix left this feature out - don't miss it at all.

I feel the exact opposite. The new rectangles and half-rectangles and the slow note speed make Hard and Expert nearly impossible for me as all of the notes are jumbled together.

Thankfully a couple people have explained what hyperspeed is to some of you.


Here's a funny thing. After I showed some family RB, I put in GH3 and I almost freaked out at how fast the notes were coming down the screen in hard. But after a few seconds, it was like it always is, regular Guitar Hero with round notes coming down the screen at the proper pace on Hard.

Rock Band is a great game, but the rectangles and slow note speed detract too much from the fun of it with guitar. Drums no worries since there are no HO/PO's.

[blue_dragonzero]

Keep this stupid code out of RB!

[Angry_Games]

I'm not sure how this code is "stupid"...Can you please explain to me how it is "stupid"?

[blue_dragonzero]

Honestly, I forgot how to spell atrocity and that's why I said stupid code. Now to answer the question it is an addiction. Don't say that it's not because A.) People can't stop using it
B.) They feel the need for it anytime that they play

We've seen a few addicts on here firsthand. It's bad news.

[BobLoblaw]

I don't get why people are so opposed to hyperspeed. Some people find the note charts easier to read with the notes scrolling faster, why do so many of you seem to have a problem with that?

[steelcurtain187]

No thanks!

[Hastyl3]

Why don't you just play on an easier difficulty? The game's not all that hard anyways.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

I vote no as well. Screw Hyper Speed!

[AdamWill]

angry_games: you haven't tried setting drums very hard, have you? try watching the chart for Blackened on expert, it's basically unreadable at the default scroll speed.

hastyl3: um, that's not the point at all. the point is that slow scroll speed makes charts unnecessarily hard to read, meaning that *good* players can't reach their full potential. sorry to keep talking about other games, but on the games people play really seriously - DDR and its clones, IIDX and its clones, GF/DM - you will not find any top-level players who play with a scroll speed as slow as RB's, and that's not because they want to 'show off' with a fast scroll speed but because it's just a lot *easier* to read complex charts with a fast scroll speed. playing a really complex song at a slow scroll speed counts as goofing around and showing off, actually.

[monoxidehektik]

word, i like hyperspeed

[MDKDIABLO]

Ever think that the scroll speed and amount of notes were meant to keep it that much more difficult? I think it's pathetic that people have to complain about not being able to comprehend the game the way it was designed to be played. If you want it to be easier, kick it down a difficulty.

[AdamWill]

mdkdiablo: not really, because it's the wrong kind of difficulty.

any game designer knows that there are *bad* ways to do difficulty and *good* ways to do difficulty. Bad ways to do difficulty are ways that make the player needlessly frustrated and feel like they are being artificially restricted. *Good* ways to do difficulty feel fun, challenging, and like the game is not restricting you but helping you to get better.

On all these counts, a fixed (and painfully slow) scroll speed is a *bad* way to do difficulty, not a good way.

Basically, if Bemani took out the speed options on the next mix of all their popular rhythm games, about 80% of people would stop playing them. Including all the best players in the world, who are far better than you'll *ever* be. Given that, I don't think the problem is with the players, but with the game.

[Catalytic]

Hyperspeed would be nice ... the rectangular notes can be hard to differentiate when they are close together (especially some of the HOs and POs sectiosn) ... it can just look like a blob. Hyperspeed just spaces out the notes on the chart so you can recognize the distinct notes more easily. I would be in favor of this option as well.

[wEEman33]

You hyperspeed haters are crazy.

All we are asking for is an OPTION (meaning, you don't have to use it if you don't want to) that virtually every other rhythm game has, and that previous Harmonix games have had.

Given that the game already allows for individual players to select their difficulties, it shouldn't be too hard to let individual players select their scrolling speed as well.

[ddarko]

You hyperspeed haters are crazy.

All we are asking for is an OPTION (meaning, you don't have to use it if you don't want to) that virtually every other rhythm game has, and that previous Harmonix games have had.

Given that the game already allows for individual players to select their difficulties, it shouldn't be too hard to let individual players select their scrolling speed as well.

Agreed. I really don't understand why anyone would refuse to have that feature even if they don't plan on using it? This so called temptation that "forces" you to use it is a pretty lame excuse which is further offset by the fact that in previous games you had to enter a cheat code to enable it. I LOVE hyperspeed. Not only does it make it easier to identify notes, it also gives you a shorter view of the horizon so that you are less prepared for upcoming notes and have to react faster. This is nice for those who have more or less mastered expert.

[MDKDIABLO]

mdkdiablo: not really, because it's the wrong kind of difficulty.

any game designer knows that there are *bad* ways to do difficulty and *good* ways to do difficulty. Bad ways to do difficulty are ways that make the player needlessly frustrated and feel like they are being artificially restricted. *Good* ways to do difficulty feel fun, challenging, and like the game is not restricting you but helping you to get better.

On all these counts, a fixed (and painfully slow) scroll speed is a *bad* way to do difficulty, not a good way.

Basically, if Bemani took out the speed options on the next mix of all their popular rhythm games, about 80% of people would stop playing them. Including all the best players in the world, who are far better than you'll *ever* be. Given that, I don't think the problem is with the players, but with the game.
No, there is no right and wrong way to creating difficulties. It's just your way of justifying the need for the feature. I have to tell you that every rythm game I've ever played I've never had a problem with reading the notes/steps on the hardest difficulty. I'm not saying I'm awesome but that maybe the people that use hyperspeed just need to practice instead of resorting to hyperspeed to make things easier. I have nothing against hyperspeed itself, just the people that feel the need to use it to lower difficulty. That being said I have used hyperspeed in a few games thinking I was going to further challenge myself only to find that it is only easier to play. I am all for the idea of there being features that alter the game experience but they need to be within areas of "Quickplay" as it dummies the difficulty for completing the games on the highest difficulty.

[AdamWill]

"No, there is no right and wrong way to creating difficulties"

um....no.

if you're making a platform game and you add in to the game the random chance that an un-dodgeable meteor will land on the player's head and kill him - that makes it a lot harder. but it's a *dumb* way to make it harder.

the point of the challenge in rhythm games is being able to *play* the charts, not being able to read them. being able to read the charts is a *necessary skill*, but it's not the *challenge*. the challenge is being able to play the patterns. to that end, it's not at all 'invalid' for people to be able to change configuration options that affect how those patterns are displayed, as long as ultimately the patterns are still the same.

sorry, but I'm just going to have to keep referring back to the Bemani games and their popular clones. people devote their lives to playing these games. they have televised tournaments, with cash prizes, at frankly inhuman skill levels. and none of these players think it's stupid or lame or invalid to have speed options (and combo indicator placement options, dark mode, reverse mode, blah blah). if it's okay for ridiculously skilled people competing against each other for money, it should be okay for you.

[Angry_Games]

Ok I'm starting to slowly warm up to the rectangles and I'm starting to get more used to the slow scroll speed, but I'd still like the option. Options are for capitalists, being forced to do something is for communists lol

[MJDoja]

"No, there is no right and wrong way to creating difficulties"

um....no.

if you're making a platform game and you add in to the game the random chance that an un-dodgeable meteor will land on the player's head and kill him - that makes it a lot harder. but it's a *dumb* way to make it harder.

the point of the challenge in rhythm games is being able to *play* the charts, not being able to read them. being able to read the charts is a *necessary skill*, but it's not the *challenge*. the challenge is being able to play the patterns. to that end, it's not at all 'invalid' for people to be able to change configuration options that affect how those patterns are displayed, as long as ultimately the patterns are still the same.

sorry, but I'm just going to have to keep referring back to the Bemani games and their popular clones. people devote their lives to playing these games. they have televised tournaments, with cash prizes, at frankly inhuman skill levels. and none of these players think it's stupid or lame or invalid to have speed options (and combo indicator placement options, dark mode, reverse mode, blah blah). if it's okay for ridiculously skilled people competing against each other for money, it should be okay for you.

youre really working hard to justify your points. we all see what you mean. please get over it.

[kainzero]

this game needs speed modifiers badly

most of the songs on drums expert aren't that much harder than the medium difficulty on drummania, but i keep failing because everything's so durned slow that my bass pedal timing is completely off

i think the drums need it the most, whereas guitar seems fine without it

and for that matter, they should implement separate speeds. it's weird playing expert songs with a guy on easy and having it go all slow


No, there is no right and wrong way to creating difficulties. It's just your way of justifying the need for the feature. I have to tell you that every rythm game I've ever played I've never had a problem with reading the notes/steps on the hardest difficulty.

really
go play drummania on expert, something like least 100 sec should be right down your alley

and wow i can't believe how many people are complaining that they should keep it out of the game... as if a mere option would affect their gameplay experience

[cmg4894]

this game needs speed modifiers badly

most of the songs on drums expert aren't that much harder than the medium difficulty on drummania, but i keep failing because everything's so durned slow that my bass pedal timing is completely off

i think the drums need it the most, whereas guitar seems fine without it

and for that matter, they should implement separate speeds. it's weird playing expert songs with a guy on easy and having it go all slow



really
go play drummania on expert, something like least 100 sec should be right down your alley

and wow i can't believe how many people are complaining that they should keep it out of the game... as if a mere option would affect their gameplay experience

It does affect the game play. If it didn't people wouldn't want it. I don't like it and it is a cheat. For all of those who say it isn't here is why: A cheat is a code that alters the original game play. This code does. I think people that think they are good but have to use the cheat aren't that good. I don't want to hear about the top players using to. If they are really that good then they shouldn't need it. Get good at the game as it is on a level. That is impressive. Not putting in a code to "read the charts".

[Faldrok]

the point of the challenge in rhythm games is being able to *play* the charts, not being able to read them. being able to read the charts is a *necessary skill*, but it's not the *challenge*. the challenge is being able to play the patterns. to that end, it's not at all 'invalid' for people to be able to change configuration options that affect how those patterns are displayed, as long as ultimately the patterns are still the same.

Wow, and here I am (As a real life musician) thinking that being able to read (And sightread) sheet music was important!

Now, light humor aside, I realize this isn't a "real" music game, but I do find it very entertaining how you said reading the charts (As in, the musical notes -- doesn't matter there's only five here) is not an important skill when that's half the battle with playing music.

Since you like to refer to other games so much (I'll touch on that later), I'm going to refer to real life again. It's very easy to learn how to play a scale on a guitar if you have someone show you which frets to hold down and which strings to strum in order. Now take part of that scale pattern and put it on some sheet music (With the rest of a particular song) with many notes and play it at a faster tempo without having someone show you where to put your hands -- it's much more difficult.

However, we've already got it easier here because, as everyone knows, there are only five buttons which are color-coded and set to shape as it appears on the virtual fret board -- yet you still want the "music" to become easier to read?

Note: I actually don't care either way if hyperspeed is enabled or not -- I just like pointing out the flaws in one's argument to show how unconvincing it is. But if I did have to vote, I would vote "No" -- that doesn't mean I'd complain if it was implemented, though.


sorry, but I'm just going to have to keep referring back to the Bemani games and their popular clones. people devote their lives to playing these games. they have televised tournaments, with cash prizes, at frankly inhuman skill levels. and none of these players think it's stupid or lame or invalid to have speed options (and combo indicator placement options, dark mode, reverse mode, blah blah). if it's okay for ridiculously skilled people competing against each other for money, it should be okay for you.

[Enter-Parent-Mode]If every one of your friends jumped off of a bridge, would you do the same?[/Exit-Parent-Mode]

I also fail to understand how referencing one's usage of a "hyperspeed" mode in another game makes the point any more valid.

Again, just in case you missed it before -- I don't care if hyperspeed gets implemented or not. I don't use it, and I still won't use it, but I don't care if others do as long as I'm not playing at the same time.

[admanimal]

i think the drums need it the most


This guy seems to do just fine without it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ9XLiMfBRo

[AdamWill]

admanimal: that's actually fairly ironic, because 'that guy' is here on these forums, he's also a DM player, and he's on record as saying that there should be variable speeds because reading some songs (e.g. Blackened) is stupidly hard.

faldrok: sorry, you don't understand what I'm saying at all. If you want to compare to real life - saying there shouldn't be variable speeds is like saying that, in real life, a drummer could only chart out the notes for a song with a given amount of space between the beats, and if one drummer likes to write out his charts with more than that amount of space between the beats, he's 'cheating'. Isn't that ludicrous? If you're a musician and you're making a guitar tab or a drum tab, you format it however you find it easiest to read - however much space between the notes that means to you. You don't set some Official Note Spacing and declare that anyone using any other spacing is lame.

"[Enter-Parent-Mode]If every one of your friends jumped off of a bridge, would you do the same?[/Exit-Parent-Mode]"

I might try and figure out why they were doing it. Most of my friends are fairly rational people, so I guess if they were all jumping off bridges, it would mean there was a big net at the bottom full of cash, or something. =)

"I do find it very entertaining how you said reading the charts (As in, the musical notes -- doesn't matter there's only five here) is not an important skill when that's half the battle with playing music."

I said it's not the *challenge*. I *did* say it's a necessary skill. The distinction I'm drawing here is that, in general, a game has one facet that is the actual challenge - the ability that's being tested. Rhythm games test your ability to play a particular note chart. Obviously, in order to play the chart, you have to be able to read it. But since reading it is just an ancillary skill to the actual object of the game - playing it - there's nothing 'lame' or 'unfair' about having options to tailor the display of the chart to make it convenient to you. Again comparing to real life - the point of being a musician is *playing music*. Sure, reading music is an important skill in order to be able to do this. But it's not 'cheating' to organize the music you read in whatever form is most convenient. Do piano players who turn their own pages go around calling piano players who have a page turner 'lame' or say they're 'cheating'?

[AdamWill]

mjdoja: i'd love to, except clearly some people don't understand what I'm saying...:)

[kainzero]

It does affect the game play. If it didn't people wouldn't want it. I don't like it and it is a cheat. For all of those who say it isn't here is why: A cheat is a code that alters the original game play. This code does. I think people that think they are good but have to use the cheat aren't that good. I don't want to hear about the top players using to. If they are really that good then they shouldn't need it. Get good at the game as it is on a level. That is impressive. Not putting in a code to "read the charts".
so if i was playing one of those old ddr machines and i put in the code to increase the difficulty, that's a cheat by your definition and i guess they aren't that good

whatever man

and i don't care about impressing you anyway, i play the game for myself
if you don't want pickles on your burger don't get the pickles but i want that option


Note: I actually don't care either way if hyperspeed is enabled or not -- I just like pointing out the flaws in one's argument to show how unconvincing it is.
good job internet warrior.
no one cares about making arguments for the sake of arguing and boosting your own ego.

i'd have way more fun with highspeed in. then i can focus on playing my fake instrument and making music instead of the boring task of trying to decipher notes put so closely together

and aren't games supposed to be fun anyway

that's why i want harmonix to put highspeed in

[Gotdgoatse]

I'm sorry, but some of the arguments in this thread against hyperspeed are so outrageous I just couldn't resist posting here. One argument that specifically stuck out, and I'm too lazy to go quote it right now, came from a guy claiming he loved to debunk flawed arguments, and ironically enough his argument was horribly flawed and could actually be used to show why hyperspeed should be allowed. I mean, you mentioned musicians could use sheet music, or instead they could choose to use tab and make their lives easier if that was their style. Why can't we, the people who like using hyperspeed, not choose (meaning you're not forced to use it if you don't want to) to use hyperspeed to make reading note charts easier? It doesn't change how a song is played at all; timing is the same, the notes are the same, they are just faster and easier to read for some. It's a personal choice. And it's also been a part of all three guitar hero games, so why stop implementing it all of a sudden.


To all the people strongly against hyperspeed: why do you care how people play the game? Why do you want to control how other people play the game? Honestly, it's all a matter of preference. Some people actually find hyperspeed harder, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean others shouldn't be able to choose to use hyperspeed. You can have the opinion that hyperspeed sucks, but don't be a jackass and claim no one should use it just because you don't like it.

Also, I agree with the guy who's been referring to Bemani games. They're a part of the game, they don't reduce your ranking at the end of the song, (like other options do) and their use is widely accepted. Being a long-time DDR player, I simply cannot play without speed modifiers. They make reading the notes a lot easier, but at the end of a really difficult song, I'm still just as tired as if I had played without any speed modifiers. It doesn't make the song any harder, it just makes it easier to read. Plus, speed modifiers, like the guy who mentioned Bemani games said, are accepted in professional gameplay.

But it all comes down to a matter of preference and choice. Why limit people's choices or how they want to play a game? Why care so much if some other guy uses hyperspeed to make the game funner to play, but still equally as challenging? If you don't like it, don't use it. But don't use ridiculous arguments like "I don't like it, it's a cheat so therefore nobody should use it." That's just outrageous.

And to solve the problem online, why not use variable speeds for different players? If someone isn't playing on hyperspeed, that's fine, his notes will scroll slower than someone who does. Is it really that hard to implement? I mean, Konami has been doing it for years with DDR.

[Tiger of PTS]

As someone who was into music games waaaaaaaaay before the inclusion of hyperspeed and as someone who can do just as well on any game he plays with or without it, I'd just like to take this time out to say the following to anyone who's against the notion of hyperspeed:

hahahahahahahah

[cmg4894]

Here is why hyperspeed is wrong. A few months ago there was a Guitar Hero tourney going on at my local Gamestop. Now, I'm good at the game but by no means I am as great as some of the videos I've seen. Maybe a 8 out of 10. Well, my friend talked me into entering because he wanted to. When it was time, we went and saw people starting to warm up. I watched this guy playing and thought I was done. He was great and he was using hyperspeed. When it was time to play, he wanted to use the code and they wouldn't let him. I ended up playing him a few rounds in and I killed him. So, my question is: Is he really that good? I don't think so. I don't like the it's easier to read. Well, learn how to read the way it is made. I like the point Faldrok makes about music in real life. We all know that this game isn't supposed to be like playing guitar and it isn't. I have been playing guitar for 13 years and when I read sheet music in real life, I don't slow down reading. You can't hyperspeed your eyes. Fast songs are just learned that way. And if you really want to see the note charts go to Scorehero. They are working on the Rockband site now. If they don't have them up yet they tell you how to pull them off the game disk. Learn don't be lazy.

[Gotdgoatse]

Here is why hyperspeed is wrong. A few months ago there was a Guitar Hero tourney going on at my local Gamestop. Now, I'm good at the game but by no means I am as great as some of the videos I've seen. Maybe a 8 out of 10. Well, my friend talked me into entering because he wanted to. When it was time, we went and saw people starting to warm up. I watched this guy playing and thought I was done. He was great and he was using hyperspeed. When it was time to play, he wanted to use the code and they wouldn't let him. I ended up playing him a few rounds in and I killed him. So, my question is: Is he really that good? I don't think so. I don't like the it's easier to read. Well, learn how to read the way it is made. I like the point Faldrok makes about music in real life. We all know that this game isn't supposed to be like playing guitar and it isn't. I have been playing guitar for 13 years and when I read sheet music in real life, I don't slow down reading. You can't hyperspeed your eyes. Fast songs are just learned that way. And if you really want to see the note charts go to Scorehero. They are working on the Rockband site now. If they don't have them up yet they tell you how to pull them off the game disk. Learn don't be lazy.


Some guitarists in real life use tab notation instead of regular sheet music. Does that make them cheaters and lazy? Does that mean they're "not as good" just because they can't read sheet music? Should they be forced to read sheet music because it's the "right way" to do it?


It all comes down to a matter of preference, like I've said. Some people actually find it harder to play on hyperspeed, it's not like it makes it easier for everybody to play. And I really doubt that people who use hyperspeed are bad or anything, maybe they like making life easier and uses guitar tabs (hyperspeed) instead of sheet music (normal speed).


and what the hell are you talking about speeding up sheet music? That's just dumb, and you know it. Sheet music as far as I know doesn't scroll down slowly on a screen and you play the notes as they come, it's static and you can take your time discerning it and learning it. Rock Band notes you MUST play as they come down, you have a very small window of opportunity to read the notes, and you can't take your time to learn it. Having the notes close together just makes it harder to read. Why do you care if someone wants to make it easier?


edit: my friends went to a Gamestop tournament when Guitar Hero III came out, and being used to hyperspeed, they were shocked when the employees forced them to not use hyperspeed. Most of them did horribly except one guy who actually liked playing at normal speed. After that though, one of my friends decided that just because Gamestop decided that hyperspeed shouldn't be used it makes it dumb and a cheat. :rolleyes: I saw a video of some representatives from Harmonix or Redoctane, I forget which, asking one of the best players in the nation whether he had hyperspeed on already. I mean, if people as official as that are letting one of the best players in the nation use hyperspeed, why can't everyone else be allowed the same courtesy?


edit 2: here's the video in question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmS0OwqjYhs

[blue_dragonzero]

[QUOTE=Gotdgoatse;139443]Some guitarists in real life use tab notation instead of regular sheet music. Does that make them cheaters and lazy? Does that mean they're "not as good" just because they can't read sheet music? Should they be forced to read sheet music because it's the "right way" to do it?


It all comes down to a matter of preference, like I've said. Some people actually find it harder to play on hyperspeed, it's not like it makes it easier for everybody to play. And I really doubt that people who use hyperspeed are bad or anything, maybe they like making life easier and uses guitar tabs (hyperspeed) instead of sheet music (normal speed).
[QUOTE]

No, it doesn't. However, reading sheet music teaches rhythm while tabs do not. And if you as any player worth his salt, he will say that learning rhythm is THE most important thing that a musician can do.

So now on topic, the people who read sheet music (normal speed) will end up better than the people who can only read tabs (hyperspeed) because they will be able to play a song in it's natural tempo and rhythm instead of just relying on his reflexes. Thus they progress as players while the tabbers (hyperspeeders) do not.

[Ultrace]

To those wanting to add hyperspeed: also consider some of the engineering of what you're asking. Not only would this need to be selectable from some sort of menu, but it also needs to be easily de-selectable without going to a menu, because people swap instruments all the time, sometimes between songs. Sure there's room to do it on the screen where you select difficulty, but then it's just one more button to press when a lot of people already think that it's too many buttons and such to get into a song. It's not just like GH where you and a friend are unlikely to exchange guitars every other song or so.

This is of course under the understanding that hyperspeed would have to be toggleable for each individual person. Anyone thinking that a code should be added that would only lock up to four people into hyperspeed needs to seriously reconsider their views on this game.

[Julio_No_Mas]

I sign this petition.

All the songs in the Metallica pack and final tier will rape my sould if there isn't hyperspeed.

And I don't want to use my X-Plorer. It'll feel like Guitar Hero IV if I do.

[the_spike]

I hope they NEVER put it in Rock Band. Get used to the new charts and note timing without it.

[Seattle_Sound]

This is the most rediculous thing I've ever read.

How can you say that an OPTION shouldnt be in a game? You are in no way required to use Hyperspeed, it is an option. WHO CARES IF IT MAKES IT EASIER, ITS A GAME!!!

The game should be fun and if hyperspeed makes it fun for some people than let them have it. I cant believe people are being so arrogant and acting like they are so much better because they dont need hyperspeed.

I dont go around telling my friends they suck because they can only play medium.

I think its a really easy decision. Hyperspeed should definately be added in a patch.

[espher]

For what it's worth, I play worse with hyperspeed on. So it doesn't necessarily make it 'easier'. It makes it 'easier' for some people whereas it's 'easier' for me with it off.

[AdamWill]

Ultrace: in GF / DM, you can use a special button combination to adjust the speed during a song.

[AdamWill]

So now on topic, the people who read sheet music (normal speed) will end up better than the people who can only read tabs (hyperspeed) because they will be able to play a song in it's natural tempo and rhythm instead of just relying on his reflexes. Thus they progress as players while the tabbers (hyperspeeders) do not.

Sorry, that's stupid. No particular scroll speed represents the "natural tempo and rhythm" of any song. It's an entirely arbitrary decision.

[cmg4894]

This is the most rediculous thing I've ever read.

How can you say that an OPTION shouldnt be in a game? You are in no way required to use Hyperspeed, it is an option. WHO CARES IF IT MAKES IT EASIER, ITS A GAME!!!

The game should be fun and if hyperspeed makes it fun for some people than let them have it. I cant believe people are being so arrogant and acting like they are so much better because they dont need hyperspeed.

I dont go around telling my friends they suck because they can only play medium.

I think its a really easy decision. Hyperspeed should definately be added in a patch.

Really? I tell my friends they suck if they play below me....I'm kidding. As for the sheet music thing. I can site read, I'm not great at it and I do use tabs and the song itself to learn. I done thinking about this. I'll tell you what though. MOST of the people that use hyperspeed are also the same ones that pick TTFF on GHIII online. It's all about showing off. I like the online duels in RB. I was doing well the first 9 matches in tug of war I did and just got my ass handed to me the last 2. That is fun. Playing songs..not using hyperspeed to play the really fast songs. Learn them!

[AdamWill]

Why do you think that people who use hyperspeed aren't learning songs?

It's basically impossible to learn every single beat of a complicated song, though. And it's easier to learn the song if the patterns are actually discernable.

[Credge]

People seem so against options. Tell you what, next time you make a purchase, walk into the store and chose the very first thing you see. No choice.

[c3ntrfuge]

I vote yes for hyperspeed :D

[the_spike]

If hyperspeed is added, I demand all the other cheats from "that other franchise". Horse heads, easy expert, performance mode, etc.

[Cr1ckt]

Thanks for your effort Adamwill. You are, by far, the most rational person on this thread. The analogy comparing Notation and tabs to normal speed and hyperspeed is ill-conceived. It is true that tabs do not designate specific rhythms; they are designed with the intent that the guitarists knows how the song goes but is ignorant of how to play the song on a guitar. However, both normal speed and hyperspeed denote the rhythm that must be played. Thus, both are similar to standard musical notation (albeit a simplied version.)

To properly consider the analogous situation in musical notation, think about the spacing between notes on the page. When I'm setting music to the staff, I can adjust how much space to put between notes. When I'm using a decent program, like Finale, to compose, this is usually done automatically by the program. If I place four quarter notes, the measure is a certain length. If I next create a measure with sixteen sixteenth notes, the measure will be wider, to allow for easier reading of the piece. If the measure wasn't wider on the page, any musician would have a harder time reading the sixteenth notes because they would become crowded together. Thus, we allow more space for passages that are dense with notes, for the sake of clarity.

Similarly, it is unreasonable to say that hyperspeed allows the gamer to "cheat." It simply reduces clutter and clarifies the note pattern intended. "Real musicians" always make sure that notes aren't cluttered on the page, since clutter would be counter-productive.

The reason that people do poorly when they are forced to play normal speed is that they are used to playing on hyperspeed. Due to the reaction time required between seeing a note and strumming it, they must scan the fretboard with their eyes at a point that would be higher than the point that would be used if the scrolling speed was normal. All of this is done subconsciously, and it takes time to adjust back to the normal speed. It would be like giving a really good tennis player a racket with a handle twice as long as the normal size. They would play poorly because they are used to the normal size racket, and their swings would overshoot the ball most of the time.

There is no reason to deny hyperspeed as an option. I agree with Harmonix that their strict timing window makes the game feel more realistic (Although I wish that they had managed to release drum sets that would always register hits; it's frustrating if a friend has a faulty set.) However, I don't agree that hyperspeed compromises the sense of musicianship. As I've demonstrated, sensible musicians wouldn't scoff at the idea of making notation easy to read. In the end, I'll be happy as long as the notes aren't on top of each other. I haven't personally seen any crowded charts, but I have yet to play the Metallica drum parts. If the notes really are crowded, then something should be done to make them readable. That's the bottom line. If I want to play something like that, I'll go buy the biography of PDQ Bach (bonus points if you get the reference.)

[AdamWill]

Thanks, cr1ckt; as I'm not a musician I wasn't sure about the conventions for formal notation, whether the note space is fixed or not, so I didn't talk about that. Thanks for adding that information.

And yes, I know who PDQ Bach was, or rather wasn't. =)

[AdamWill]

btw, you can say that the charts in GH and RB most closely resemble *drum* tablatures, rotated through 90 degrees and put on a conveyor belt. =)

[Angry_Games]

Thanks for your effort Adamwill. You are, by far, the most rational person on this thread. The analogy comparing Notation and tabs to normal speed and hyperspeed is ill-conceived. It is true that tabs do not designate specific rhythms; they are designed with the intent that the guitarists knows how the song goes but is ignorant of how to play the song on a guitar. However, both normal speed and hyperspeed denote the rhythm that must be played. Thus, both are similar to standard musical notation (albeit a simplied version.)

To properly consider the analogous situation in musical notation, think about the spacing between notes on the page. When I'm setting music to the staff, I can adjust how much space to put between notes. When I'm using a decent program, like Finale, to compose, this is usually done automatically by the program. If I place four quarter notes, the measure is a certain length. If I next create a measure with sixteen sixteenth notes, the measure will be wider, to allow for easier reading of the piece. If the measure wasn't wider on the page, any musician would have a harder time reading the sixteenth notes because they would become crowded together. Thus, we allow more space for passages that are dense with notes, for the sake of clarity.

Similarly, it is unreasonable to say that hyperspeed allows the gamer to "cheat." It simply reduces clutter and clarifies the note pattern intended. "Real musicians" always make sure that notes aren't cluttered on the page, since clutter would be counter-productive.

The reason that people do poorly when they are forced to play normal speed is that they are used to playing on hyperspeed. Due to the reaction time required between seeing a note and strumming it, they must scan the fretboard with their eyes at a point that would be higher than the point that would be used if the scrolling speed was normal. All of this is done subconsciously, and it takes time to adjust back to the normal speed. It would be like giving a really good tennis player a racket with a handle twice as long as the normal size. They would play poorly because they are used to the normal size racket, and their swings would overshoot the ball most of the time.

There is no reason to deny hyperspeed as an option. I agree with Harmonix that their strict timing window makes the game feel more realistic (Although I wish that they had managed to release drum sets that would always register hits; it's frustrating if a friend has a faulty set.) However, I don't agree that hyperspeed compromises the sense of musicianship. As I've demonstrated, sensible musicians wouldn't scoff at the idea of making notation easy to read. In the end, I'll be happy as long as the notes aren't on top of each other. I haven't personally seen any crowded charts, but I have yet to play the Metallica drum parts. If the notes really are crowded, then something should be done to make them readable. That's the bottom line. If I want to play something like that, I'll go buy the biography of PDQ Bach (bonus points if you get the reference.)
probably best post in this entire thread

hyperspeed isn't a cheat. I hope everyone finally gets it into their minds it is NOT a cheat. It's NOT. It's a way to reduce clutter with lots of grouped notes.

[blue_dragonzero]

Thanks for your effort Adamwill. You are, by far, the most rational person on this thread. The analogy comparing Notation and tabs to normal speed and hyperspeed is ill-conceived. It is true that tabs do not designate specific rhythms; they are designed with the intent that the guitarists knows how the song goes but is ignorant of how to play the song on a guitar. However, both normal speed and hyperspeed denote the rhythm that must be played. Thus, both are similar to standard musical notation (albeit a simplied version.)



However they do not denote the tempo which was mentioned in my post. That was the problem, the hyperspeed keeps the player from reading the notes because it is so sped up that the people end up relying more on their reflexes than their skill which was the main point of my post. The player can't advance their skill at the guitar when using hyperspeed because they spend all of their playing time relying on reflexes imo. And no I'm not against options, if I was against options then I wouldn't be talking here. I would instead be telling people that only my way correct, instead of simply sharing my opinions and listening to yours.

[MJDoja]

So harmonix basically left out hyperspeed in a total oversight of this key musical adage?

or did they leave it out to increase the difficulty?

You decide, this is the internet.

[AdamWill]

blue_dragonzero: have you actually tried playing hyperspeed for any significant length of time? you're not playing 'on reflexes', you just adjust to the different speed. I starting playing Drummania at 1.0 speed, then gradually increased as my ability to read got better and the songs I was playing got more complex. I haven't actually changed the way I play at all, it's just that at a given level of note complexity, it gets easier *for me* to read the song if the chart is scrolling faster. Everyone has a different preference; the top DM players have speed preferences ranging from 2.5x to 5.0x. (I play at 4.0x currently). GF players tend to play a lot faster, say from 5.0x to 8.0x. As it's obvious that different people have different preferences for scroll speed, you could argue that having a single locked speed is unfairly advantageous to those people who happen to prefer that particular speed.

mjdoja: if I had to guess, I'd say they had technical trouble including it for some reason.

[blue_dragonzero]

mjdoja: if I had to guess, I'd say they had technical trouble including it for some reason.

Harmonix specifically said that they left hyperspeed out on purpose as they felt that it detracted from the experience.

[Job1021]

Hyperspeed is a non-cheat-cheat.... if the note chart is hard for you to read, practice! If they do add it I hope that it's denoted in the leaderboards.... I don't use it because the note charts are what they intended, cluttered or not.

[AdamWill]

Harmonix specifically said that they left hyperspeed out on purpose as they felt that it detracted from the experience.

Please cite a source, I have not seen this anywhere.

[AdamWill]

Hyperspeed is a non-cheat-cheat.... if the note chart is hard for you to read, practice! If they do add it I hope that it's denoted in the leaderboards.... I don't use it because the note charts are what they intended, cluttered or not.

You seem to have missed reading the entire thread, please do so.

[deepbluevibes]

I just have to ask, have ANY of you who don't want hyperspeed played Blackened on Expert Drums?

It's pretty much equal to this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jHI7Olt-G0
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5L3VHi9VP0

with how crammed the notes are. Can you read those notes in those videos?


Harmonix specifically said that they left hyperspeed out on purpose as they felt that it detracted from the experience.

I've seen this, and if they took out hyperspeed because it "detracted from the realism", they should take out;

-star power/overdrive
-being able to quit songs in BWT halfway through
-practice mode
-leaderboards

and a ton of other "unrealistic" stuff.

They should also have added another drum on the drumset and a hi-hat pedal.

Point is, that's a stupid excuse, and i would love to see you all play Blackened on Expert drums; i'm going to pass it, but honestly, it's a ****ing mess of notes squished together.

[AdmanCS]

As a Beatmania player I know how important speed modifiers are not just to be able to play harder songs, but to really be able to have fun playing the game. When you've got songs that run at 60bpm, and songs that run at 200bpm, it's crucial, especially on harder difficulties. 95% of Beatmania players use it, and Konami make efforts to improve how speed modifiers work as each game is released.

Yes it can make songs easier to play because the notes are easier to read, but you're still playing the same number of notes, and it still requires the same level of dexterity. Not to mention that easier is definitely not the same as easy. To say that we should play the game with the notecharts the way they are because it was intended is kind of shortsighted. Harmonix had to pick a scrolling speed for notes. If it was too fast I'm sure you'd see different people asking for slower speed modifiers. You could probably then try and argue that being able to see more notes on screen is unfair because people can see further ahead into the song. Clearly not everyone would be happy regardless of the speed chosen, which is why people are asking for speed modifiers in the first place. More choices means more happy customers, and it means more ways to get fun out of the game.

I agree that Harmonix have more important things to fix or add in this game right now, but I don't think there's anything wrong with petitioning for this to be added as an option. Just make it selectable in the pause menu, it should let all members of a band use it as they please with minimum fuss. I have no idea how easy or hard this is to do, but clearly it can be done with time.

Thank you to AdamWill for arguing for it so sensibly throughout this thread, it's appreciated and encourage me to make a post here instead of lurking. :p

[MJDoja]

i think he said experience not realism, but yeah.. those tough songs look really tough to sight read. could be easier if they were spread out more.. or if i played the song a buncha times and learned what all those little groups of notes meant when i saw them on screen.

that looks like freaking slow mo..

[King_Nuthin]

I don't use hyperspeed. I don't really care if its in or isn't. But I have a question:
In the Harmonix GH games, if you used hyperspeed did it disable the leaderboard saves?

The reason I ask is because from reading interviews (Feigned's interview seems to come to mind but I may be wrong) I got the impression that Harmonix feels hyperspeed is a cheat. In that regard it doesn't matter whether or not you, Score Hero or another game manufacturer considers it a cheat or not.

[Angry_Games]

if I remember right Score Hero site was the big place for everyone to report scores and while they weren't Harmonix, they were ultra-popular with GH fans, and even the CEO of Harmonix donated a couple grand to keep that site alive, and invited a lot of the Score Hero guys to test Rock Band.

Score Hero as far as I know has always maintained that Hyperspeed is NOT a cheat. It is simply a way to speed up the notes so they are more spread out. It does not make you a better player in ANY way except in the way it allows you to see the notes a little more spread out as they come down in groups. The negative of this is that it makes the notes scroll a LOT faster, and at first you fail a lot because you aren't used to it.

But once you get used to it, when you get into Expert with lots of solos and bunched-up notes, it simply spreads them out so you can distinguish them clearly from one another.

Again, it does not make your score go up. It does not enhance your ability in any way. You STILL have to be good enough to hit all of the notes, regardless of how fast they scroll down the screen. Bunching them up or spreading them is NOT going to help you get better at actually hitting all the notes. Your fingers/hands must do that.

It is simply a way for your eyes to be able to see a bit more spacing in the notes so you can focus your hands/fingers on the notes instead of using a millisecond or fraction of a second or whatever for your brain to try and decipher of those two notes are a chord or if they are two separate notes played one after the other.

This is the problem in Rock Band at higher levels and the harder songs. Maybe not for everyone, but everyone that is for Hyperspeed in this thread at least. Maybe that isn't a lot of us. Maybe we don't go to ScoreHero.com and see what all of those guys are saying (that's a pretty popular community if you haven't been there. I'm not a member but I used it all the time to see how good others were on the same skill levels).

Harmonix can say they left it out to enhance the experience or realism whatever, but that's actually not really the truth. Leaving it out has left us without a choice in the matter. That DETRACTS from the experience for me as well as the realism. I've got pretty quick sight reflexes I guess as once I learned that the notes come blazing down the screen faster than I could get my fingers to hit them, it's like second nature now.

But

Here's the funny thing, and the most important reason I personally think it is not a cheat:

I could ALWAYS play the songs at normal guitar hero default speeds. ALWAYS. When I first used Hyperspeed, I would fail at songs I could play on same skill levels (Hard mostly with some Expert on the easier tiers) and get 95%+ EVERY time. After about a week, I was comfortable with Hyperspeed and on a few songs that had a lot of notes all jumbled up, it simply helped me recognize the pattern of notes without my brain pausing for a second trying to decipher the jumbled notes that my eyes were seeing.

If I couldn't hit those 32 jumbled solo notes on default scroll speed, I still couldn't hit them in Hyperspeed because my fingers/hands weren't skilled enough or didn't have the 'muscle memory' yet to blast through them cleanly. Seeing them spread out a bit gave my brain a little more time to get my fingers knowing where the next notes were coming from. Seeing them spread out didn't make my fingers instantly better nor did it enhance my score anymore than hitting the notes normally does, nor did it to anything else to be considered a cheat in any way.

It MIGHT be considered an "edge". But I've always felt like I have an edge over most people for the fact I've played a real guitar for 15 years (mostly metal too so my fingers are pretty quick already lol). That's an "edge". 15 year old kids have an "edge" by simply being young and dexterous than us old dudes, even with 15+ years guitar experience. My finger speed nor my legs' running speed nor my pitching arm speed nor my slapshot speed is as good as it was when I was a teenager/20's. Natural degredation. But that's getting way off point.

In a nutshell, choice is what I want. I'm buying and playing it (more than we should be too) without it. I would just like the choice in RB2. I don't care about RB1 getting it (would be cool but probably not realistic). Choice is good.

[wEEman33]

Amen.

This is about choice. We're not trying to force people to play with hyperspeed if they don't want to, we just want to have the option to use it as a means of combating the clutter in some of the game's more complex note charts ("Ride the Lightning," "Blackened," et al.)

Again, the difficulty should come from being able to play the songs, not from being unable to decipher what and when to play.

[MagicDrop]

NO NO NO hyperspeed

[Tiger of PTS]

lol @ Magicdrop.

Way to not read any of this post.

The official consensus is now that people that think Hyperspeed is bad are morons.

[mind_in_rewind]

The official consensus is now that people that think Hyperspeed is bad are morons.So Harmonix are morons?

[MJDoja]

So Harmonix are morons?

In response you recieve no comment.

[AdamWill]

I don't think Tiger of PTS speaks for anyone. I wouldn't say there's a consensus. There's an obvious disagreement. Of course, you guys are wrong. =)

You still haven't cited your source for the supposed statement by HMX that they left hyperspeed out because they think it's cheating. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I'd like to read it.

[Seattle_Sound]

So Harmonix are morons?

In this case, yes.

I'm sry but they screwed this up.

[espher]

I've seen this, and if they took out hyperspeed because it "detracted from the realism", they should take out;

-being able to quit songs in BWT halfway through
-practice mode

Trying to figure out how these aren't realistic. I mean, they both seem to be not exactly off the mark for rock.

[Gotdgoatse]

NO NO NO hyperspeed

Why do you hate freedom :(

[blue_dragonzero]

I don't think Tiger of PTS speaks for anyone. I wouldn't say there's a consensus. There's an obvious disagreement. Of course, you guys are wrong. =)

You still haven't cited your source for the supposed statement by HMX that they left hyperspeed out because they think it's cheating. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I'd like to read it.

No, not because it's cheating, because it takes away from the experience (thanks MJD). I personally am against it, but whatever. It's not worth arguing about on an internet forum. Don't think I agree now though Mr. Manatee (Aaron), but I'm done here. See ya on a less subjective thread. :D

[AdamWill]

I already explained, it's not subjective, you're just wrong. ;)

seriously, yeah, I guess everyone made their points.

[deepbluevibes]

Trying to figure out how these aren't realistic. I mean, they both seem to be not exactly off the mark for rock.

I would love to see a up and coming band be right in the middle of a song, and then suddenly just immediately leave for no reason.

I would then like to see them re-try that exact same song at the same venue, for 100 times in a row, over and over, completely saying "**** you" to all other bands who would ever be signed up to play there as well.

If it were TRUELY realistic, you'd only be able to play a venue once, and then you couldn't play there again until you played at six or seven other venues, and if you quit out, that's it, you are ****ing banned from coming there again for the entire career, IF you want to be realistic.

Practice mode is also unrealistic too; how many bands can slow themselves down in real time, all as a single unit, by a perfect percentage, and then immediately all speed back up in real time? How many bands can immediately start up in the middle of a drum solo + guitar solo? There are some for both yes, but it's VERY rare that you have the skill to just start right in the middle of a huge ass drum solo, or that you can slow yourself down (as an entire band) or speed yourself up in real time.

These are MUCH more "cheats" than hyperspeed will ever be, and make the game infinitely easier.

[espher]

I see where you're coming from now. ;)

Just saying I've seen plenty of bands walk off the stage mid set, and a practice mode seems to be one of the more realistic things, but yeah, with the time manipulation, I guess not. ;)

[Faldrok]

Umm, any musician (Note, I said "musician" which means someone who knows music theory, not someone who randomly plays an instrument -- there's a difference) can slow down the music they are playing while they practice. Can they hit 30% slower exactly? Probably not instantly. Doing half-time is easy, though. Just can't 60bpm instead of 120bpm -- not hard to do. So while the 70%, for example, is not 100% realistic (Then again, not impossible either. In my example of a song being played at 120bpm , you could just count out 84, but it'd sound kind of awkward, I think), it's also not truly false.

Now as for the band walking off a stage -- yeah, that generally doesn't happen, and the "Restart" feature mid-way is definitely not realistic, but this is off on a tangent anyways as the original quote said "experience" and not "realism".

As I already said, I'm not going to say a word if hyperspeed does get enabled, but I think I know why others (I, myself, don't view it as a cheat -- I would agree with the comment that it gives an "edge", but I think the "edge" it gives is slight) view hyperspeed as a "cheat". The [b]only argument speaking for hyperspeed is "To make it easier to read" which, in turn, would make it easier to play since you can actually read it. I haven't seen any other reason for others to say hyperspeed should be implemented.

So am I saying that hyperspeed is a cheat? No, but when your only reason for implementing something is "to make it easier", it sure looks like one.

[Gotdgoatse]

I realize my analogy using sheet music and tablature might have been a bit farfetched and contrived, but I was just trying to make a point that people make choices. People choose whatever makes it easier for them to learn something, and if hyperspeed makes it easier to play a song, then more power to you. If you hate it and actually do better without it, then don't use it. But saying that it's a cheat and it's dumb is kind of dumb in itself considering how speed mods are widely accepted in most other rhythm games. I've played Beatmania, DDR, and Pump-it-up and all of them have speed mods which aren't considered "cheats" at all. Like AdamWill has said, it's just wrong to say that an arbitrary speed chosen by Harmonix is the right and only way to play the game. People should have choices.

[AdamWill]

BTW, I'd still like to see the original HMX quote, as I honestly don't see what scroll speed has to do with 'taking away from the experience'. Maybe it's explained better in the original. Does anyone have a link?

[blue_dragonzero]

Found it


GF: Will players have access to the Hyperspeed cheat, or something similar?
HMX: No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We are trying to stay as true to the feeling of playing real music, and thus do not feel the need to include this option.

http://gamerfront.net/2007/11/19/exclusive-interview-answers-your-burning-rock-band-questions/

[MJDoja]

Found it



http://gamerfront.net/2007/11/19/exclusive-interview-answers-your-burning-rock-band-questions/

/thread

10c

[MDKDIABLO]

Wow. The arguement against it via this thread sounds strikingly similar to HMX's reasoning against it. Practice, practice, practice. They put that mode in there with the ability to slow tempo for a reason, use it.

[AdamWill]

Yeah, um, I'm having trouble getting that quote, then. Sorry, but it *does* seem just flat wrong. The feeling of playing real music does not include sitting in front of a screen with the song chart scrolling down it, so how does the speed at which the chart scrolls have anything to do with "the feeling of playing real music"?

Just don't get that. Sorry. It's rubbish.

mdkdiablo, playing the song at half speed is nothing like playing it at the right speed with the note chart at a different speed. Especially on drums. A fill at one speed and the same fill at half the speed are basically two completely different fills. Playing one doesn't teach you anything particularly useful about playing the other.

Let's be clear what we're asking for here: ideally, a *configurable* scroll speed (hell, you could slow it down if you want to), and high score tables noting what speed was used. I have no problem if, let's say, I get #1 score for the hardest song in the game, or something, and someone wants to know what scroll speed I used, and if it's 'too fast', they say to themselves 'yeah, well, that doesn't count'. I wouldn't agree, but I don't care if they think that. We just want the option.

faldrok: I wouldn't agree with describing it as an 'edge'. After all, it would be something anyone could do, which means it's not an edge by definition. As I've written already, the experience of games which *do* have configurable speeds shows that different people happen to prefer a range of different scroll speeds, so it's more like *not* having the option is an 'edge' for people who just happen to prefer the default scroll speed.

I think it's worth looking at some other things HMX have said; I remember another interview where they said the change from circles to squares was in order to make reading the chart easier, and that they tested all sorts of different ways to represent the bass pedal and settled on the line method because they thought it was the *easiest to read*. This indicates to me that HMX also don't think that reading the chart should be part of the difficulty of the game; they want to make reading the chart as little of a problem as possible for people, and have the challenge be *playing the notes*. Having a configurable scroll speed fits in with this.

[kainzero]

i worked as a game tester before and


HMX: No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We are trying to stay as true to the feeling of playing real music, and thus do not feel the need to include this option.

sounds like


HMX: No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We think it's too hard / we're too lazy to implement it in the game given that we can't even put in variable speeds when players input different difficulties in multiplayer mode.

serious


The only argument speaking for hyperspeed is "To make it easier to read" which, in turn, would make it easier to play since you can actually read it.
yeah if you can use it

some people have trouble jumping from hard to expert because of the noticeable speed increase at which the notes come down

and if you wanna play those super hard expert drum songs with your friend on easy guitar, it totally sucks for you

on gh2 it did not disable high scores, i put in my scores with it on

but i'm tired of writing on this thread and convincing other gamers who don't matter, does ea/harmonix even post here?

[Frederf]

HMX said "No hyperspeed because you won't need it to read the notes because we're so awesome at making note charts and it would take away from the spirit of the music."

But yet I've seen complaints of notes too squished together and less than readable. I haven't seen any complaints about about notes flying by too fast (but there are probably some).

So clearly HMX failed at making hyperspeed "not needed." I honestly put a lot of the blame on the name of the feature. If it was called "Readability adjustment" or "Chart density" then people would be less up in arms about it. Different people have a different balance between note visual separation and note chart scroll speed that is the most readable for them.

[AdamWill]

kainzero: yeah, two or three different HMX people do post here. Mainly HMXSean.

[weirdingway]

This game is much easier than GH3. You don't need it. LEARN TO PLAY

This isn't Bemani. Don't whine about not getting your faster speeds. You want this game to be like Bemani? Start petitioning for note accuracy ratings first before this bull.

[ddarko]

i worked as a game tester before and
HMX: No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We are trying to stay as true to the feeling of playing real music, and thus do not feel the need to include this option.


sounds like
HMX: No, we will not be including Hyperspeed. We think it's too hard / we're too lazy to implement it in the game given that we can't even put in variable speeds when players input different difficulties in multiplayer mode.


serious
Originally Posted by Faldrok
The only argument speaking for hyperspeed is "To make it easier to read" which, in turn, would make it easier to play since you can actually read it.

yeah if you can use it

some people have trouble jumping from hard to expert because of the noticeable speed increase at which the notes come down

and if you wanna play those super hard expert drum songs with your friend on easy guitar, it totally sucks for you

on gh2 it did not disable high scores, i put in my scores with it on

but i'm tired of writing on this thread and convincing other gamers who don't matter, does ea/harmonix even post here?

(above: bolds mine)I've noticed that when I play with a full band in online multiplayer mode (even with mixed difficulties) the notes seem to fall a lot faster than when I'm playing tug of war or score duel. Not sure yet if this happens in local multiplayer as well (probably). Seems to me that even the "stock" game speed is variable depending on circumstance. I will have to test some theories on this before I make a solid statement about it though...

[AdamWill]

This game is much easier than GH3. You don't need it. LEARN TO PLAY

This isn't Bemani. Don't whine about not getting your faster speeds. You want this game to be like Bemani? Start petitioning for note accuracy ratings first before this bull.

oh, look - someone else wins the 'didn't bother reading the thread' prize.

[deepbluevibes]

Umm, any musician (Note, I said "musician" which means someone who knows music theory, not someone who randomly plays an instrument -- there's a difference) can slow down the music they are playing while they practice. Can they hit 30% slower exactly? Probably not instantly. Doing half-time is easy, though. Just can't 60bpm instead of 120bpm -- not hard to do. So while the 70%, for example, is not 100% realistic (Then again, not impossible either. In my example of a song being played at 120bpm [beats per minute], you could just count out 84, but it'd sound kind of awkward, I think), it's also not truly false.

Ok, and that's my point. Slowing yourself down to perfect increments is near impossible, and thus unrealistic; my point stands.


Now as for the band walking off a stage -- yeah, that generally doesn't happen, and the "Restart" feature mid-way is definitely not realistic, but this is off on a tangent anyways as the original quote said "experience" and not "realism".

Experience in this case = realism; it's the same definition they're going for. They're talking about the "Experience of being in a rock band", thus the realism of it.

AGAIN I would LOVE to see anyone look at Blackened on Expert Drums and then say we don't need hyperspeed. I just passed it tonight, and i'm one of FIVE PEOPLE ON THE LEADERBOARDS EVER to pass it on Expert. You realize that there are people destroying every other song in the game but that on Expert, and why? Because the chart is too damned squished together.

Until you've seen Blackened on Expert Drums, or until someone posts a chart of it up, I vote that all opinions in this thread against hyperspeed = null. I guarentee you'll vote for hyperspeed after seeing that, as slowing it down to 50% in practice does jack ****.

[Faldrok]

Ok, and that's my point. Slowing yourself down to perfect increments is near impossible, and thus unrealistic; my point stands.

No, it's near impossible to do instantly, but it's definitely possible (And not *that* difficult) to sit down and count out the beats, get that rhythm in your head and then play the song at that speed. Depending on the length of the song, that will take about 2-5 minutes depending on the skill of the musician. (Note: That's a rough estimate. I'm sure seasoned musicians can do it faster but newer ones may struggle a bit.) Regardless, though, this point isn't that important, but I just wanted to point out that it's not "impossible" by any means.




Experience in this case = realism; it's the same definition they're going for. They're talking about the "Experience of being in a rock band", thus the realism of it.

AGAIN I would LOVE to see anyone look at Blackened on Expert Drums and then say we don't need hyperspeed. I just passed it tonight, and i'm one of FIVE PEOPLE ON THE LEADERBOARDS EVER to pass it on Expert. You realize that there are people destroying every other song in the game but that on Expert, and why? Because the chart is too damned squished together.

Until you've seen Blackened on Expert Drums, or until someone posts a chart of it up, I vote that all opinions in this thread against hyperspeed = null. I guarentee you'll vote for hyperspeed after seeing that, as slowing it down to 50% in practice does jack ****.

Umm, I read "experience" as getting the general atmosphere of being in a rock band and playing music -- not making the game be 100% real. I'm not sure if there is a big title game that is 100% real because it takes from the fun factor. That's a huge debate in the game theory community. Fun vs Realism. Let's take the BWT as an example. In real life, you can only play at one, two, maybe three gigs a night if you want to work that long/have the opportunity.

Would you like to see the game limit you in this way? Of course not, so Harmonix (rightfully so) made the option that you could play in a limited amount of gigs provided you had the time. So while the goal was to make the game as real to the music playing experience as possible (I assume), you have to give away some realism to gain fun. It's just like in an MMORPG. If your character was gone (forever) the first time you died, they wouldn't be nearly as popular because it'd be highly frustrating to keep starting over. Is it real? You betcha. Is it fun? Not at all.

So, no, experience in that context does not mean "realism".

Also, your fact about the number (5) of people who have beat Blackened on Expert drums is flawed. For one, you only know the number of people who have either reported it to you via the forums (If there is such a thread) or via the leaderboards for *your* system -- not the other. Plus, you have to be connected to Xbox Live/PSN (And signed in with an Xbox Live/PSN account) to have your scores posted. Does every Rock Band player stay connected while playing the game? I highly doubt that.

But, yeah, I didn't buy Blackened, so I haven't seen the "fret board" for the drum part yet and can't make a comment on that, but if you are wanting hyperspeed for just one song, it might be best if they just change the song slightly -- would be easier to code I assume and would still keep true to the "experience" and the fact that Harmonix didn't seem inclined to include hyperspeed.

[Ultrace]

Until you've seen Blackened on Expert Drums, or until someone posts a chart of it up, I vote that all opinions in this thread against hyperspeed = null. I guarentee you'll vote for hyperspeed after seeing that, as slowing it down to 50% in practice does jack ****.
A feature being added to the game for one song, and one which people have proven can be passed? You just injured your own argument, since you've indicated that Blackened is the song to measure this by and other songs are apparently moot.

[weirdingway]

oh, look - someone else wins the 'didn't bother reading the thread' prize.

Actually, I win the 'learning to play the game as it was meant to be played' prize. No more cheat codes for hyperspeed for you. HMX - 1 | You - Loser

[weirdingway]

If you need speed modifiers to play any music game, then you are insecure about your capabilities. The ONLY reason excellent Bemani gamers use speed modifiers is because it's a handicap they can leverage w/o having an adverse affect on their score.

If it's too hard to read then you need practice. Period. An excellent Bemani player can beat the same songs on 1x. I've seen them do it. If someone can beat a song on 1x, then play on 8x for all I care. But if you can't, then you shouldn't be using it.

[MJDoja]

oh, look - someone else wins the 'didn't bother reading the thread' prize.

how bout u stfu already because you ask for proof then say its bs.. ****ing wait for a response from HMX or do something more direct besides trying to cut people down on the forum. dumb ass

[MJDoja]

Ok, and that's my point. Slowing yourself down to perfect increments is near impossible, and thus unrealistic; my point stands.



Experience in this case = realism; it's the same definition they're going for. They're talking about the "Experience of being in a rock band", thus the realism of it.

AGAIN I would LOVE to see anyone look at Blackened on Expert Drums and then say we don't need hyperspeed. I just passed it tonight, and i'm one of FIVE PEOPLE ON THE LEADERBOARDS EVER to pass it on Expert. You realize that there are people destroying every other song in the game but that on Expert, and why? Because the chart is too damned squished together.

Until you've seen Blackened on Expert Drums, or until someone posts a chart of it up, I vote that all opinions in this thread against hyperspeed = null. I guarentee you'll vote for hyperspeed after seeing that, as slowing it down to 50% in practice does jack ****.

hyperspeed makes the game easier, its your point and we hear it loud and clear.

you passed it cuz after 6 days you learned how to play the tune... being a musician im surprised you are such a wh0re for this hyperspeed sightreading nonsense. if this game were made by konami you could expect the hyperspeed argument to make sense, but you know and i know that if you play a song enough.. the notes make sense cuz you know how the song goes and youve practiced it. you passed it cuz youre good and its a tough song, and you didnt NEED hyperspeed. when i see a comment from HMX supporting it other than the one posted which gave a clear reason why they didnt want it... i will support the idea, since its just an option. but your argument for it is basically just as trivial as the argument against it.

the game isnt bemani, and its not impossible to learn a song or practice it to beat it. i see your points very clearly, but the fact that you completed blackened within a week means that this code isnt as NEEDED as you guys make it out to be.

[espher]

I'm willing to bet there is a lot of crossover between the "no hyperspeed" and "no fan cap" crowd.

[Smidget]

There was a thread about this way back in August (here (http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=2331)) and I was going to repost what I said there but I think its been said tenfold in here already so I'll just go on the record as supporting hyperspeed.

[AdamWill]

hyperspeed makes the game easier, its your point and we hear it loud and clear.

you passed it cuz after 6 days you learned how to play the tune... being a musician im surprised you are such a wh0re for this hyperspeed sightreading nonsense. if this game were made by konami you could expect the hyperspeed argument to make sense, but you know and i know that if you play a song enough.. the notes make sense cuz you know how the song goes and youve practiced it. you passed it cuz youre good and its a tough song, and you didnt NEED hyperspeed. when i see a comment from HMX supporting it other than the one posted which gave a clear reason why they didnt want it... i will support the idea, since its just an option. but your argument for it is basically just as trivial as the argument against it.

the game isnt bemani, and its not impossible to learn a song or practice it to beat it. i see your points very clearly, but the fact that you completed blackened within a week means that this code isnt as NEEDED as you guys make it out to be.

If HMX wanted people to learn the song by heart (rather than reading the chart) to play it, why didn't they put the chart only in practice mode and make you play the 'real game' without it? I just don't know why you keep hammering this point. If the chart's meant to be useless, why does it exist?

And no, no-one *needs* the code. The game would just be a hell of a lot more enjoyable - and *everyone* would likely be able to play much more closely to their true ability - with it included. I really don't get why you're so against it.

[logicalnoise]

hyperspeed was nessary at times for GH because the notes were circular and tended to blend together when you were playing a very fast solo(jordan). WIth teh new rectagular notes I've never had a problem reading the chart. Yes my fingers have had trouble going that fast but I've always known what I SHOULD'VE been doing.

[MJDoja]

If HMX wanted people to learn the song by heart (rather than reading the chart) to play it, why didn't they put the chart only in practice mode and make you play the 'real game' without it? I just don't know why you keep hammering this point. If the chart's meant to be useless, why does it exist?

And no, no-one *needs* the code. The game would just be a hell of a lot more enjoyable - and *everyone* would likely be able to play much more closely to their true ability - with it included. I really don't get why you're so against it.

i never said learn it by heart you moron its something called knowing the form of a song and what the groups of notes mean because youve successfully played it and therefore you can read the licks/phrases better.

MEMORY =! MEMORIZATION

[AdamWill]

i never said learn it by heart you moron its something called knowing the form of a song and what the groups of notes mean because youve successfully played it and therefore you can read the licks/phrases better.

MEMORY =! MEMORIZATION

I play drums, not guitar. Well, I play guitar for fun on medium, but that's about all. On drums, the *problem* with slow speed is to do with groups of notes - it's hard to accurately identify, say, a complex split roll if the notes are too close together. If they're sufficiently spread out, it's much easier to recognize. Note that this does not mean you're trying to play note by note by reflex; it's simply making it less pointlessly difficult to recognize a pattern. I would agree that recognizing common patterns is the best way to play (in fact, the only possible way to play drums at any decent level).

[deepbluevibes]

Also, your fact about the number (5) of people who have beat Blackened on Expert drums is flawed. For one, you only know the number of people who have either reported it to you via the forums (If there is such a thread) or via the leaderboards for *your* system -- not the other. Plus, you have to be connected to Xbox Live/PSN (And signed in with an Xbox Live/PSN account) to have your scores posted. Does every Rock Band player stay connected while playing the game? I highly doubt that.

But, yeah, I didn't buy Blackened, so I haven't seen the "fret board" for the drum part yet and can't make a comment on that, but if you are wanting hyperspeed for just one song, it might be best if they just change the song slightly -- would be easier to code I assume and would still keep true to the "experience" and the fact that Harmonix didn't seem inclined to include hyperspeed.

Yeah, on the forums I think one person has reported beating blackened (from this forum, and score hero combined); on xbox360's leaderboards, only four people, counting me, have beaten it on expert as far as i've seen.

So I really doubt that for some reason, PS3 is just chockfull of people who beat it on expert; the song is garbage solely because the notes are literally almost unreadable (and this is coming from someone who used to play drummania on 1X for a while).


Actually, I win the 'learning to play the game as it was meant to be played' prize. No more cheat codes for hyperspeed for you. HMX - 1 | You - Loser

Cheat = gives unfair advantage over other players
Giving an unfair advantage over other players = something that can't be DONE by all other players

Hyperspeed = can be done by all other players

thus

Hyperspeed = not a cheat.


If you need speed modifiers to play any music game, then you are insecure about your capabilities. The ONLY reason excellent Bemani gamers use speed modifiers is because it's a handicap they can leverage w/o having an adverse affect on their score.

If it's too hard to read then you need practice. Period. An excellent Bemani player can beat the same songs on 1x. I've seen them do it. If someone can beat a song on 1x, then play on 8x for all I care. But if you can't, then you shouldn't be using it.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

I guarentee you have NEVER seen anyone play anything hard on any bemani game. Go back a page or so and look at the links I posted for drummania; I would LOVE to see anyone in the WORLD pass those songs on 1x with the same scores they get on 3 or 4x.

Don't post about stuff you don't know about; you clearly have no bemani in your area either, besides DDR, that or you have no skilled players playing high level songs.

Again.

If you haven't seen Blackened on Expert Drums, your opinion = null.

Again.

Hyperspeed is not a cheat. Anyone can put it in. Thus it gives no unfair advantage. This is like saying that playing on an LCD screen is a cheat because the graphics look better, and that's not even something everyone can do.

Again.

I can guarentee without a shadow of a doubt that those of you who keep on referencing bemani games (in regards to them not needing hyperspeed either) either don't play them yourself, or don't know anyone with high skill levels at them (i'm talking, able to play and beat almost every song in Drummania or Guitar Freaks; DDR doesn't count at all in this argument), or don't watch high level skill videos.

[Smidget]

I can guarentee without a shadow of a doubt that those of you who keep on referencing bemani games (in regards to them not needing hyperspeed either) either don't play them yourself, or don't know anyone with high skill levels at them (i'm talking, able to play and beat almost every song in Drummania or Guitar Freaks; DDR doesn't count at all in this argument), or don't watch high level skill videos.


QFT, though I would include dance games (and really any scrolling note-style bemani game) in this argument.

[AdamWill]

He said DDR doesn't count because, for various reason, DDR note charts - even very hard ones - are not so cramped that reading them at 1x is a problem.

[deepbluevibes]

He said DDR doesn't count because, for various reason, DDR note charts - even very hard ones - are not so cramped that reading them at 1x is a problem.

Exactly.

However, stuff like;

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9jHI7Olt-G0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=o5L3VHi9VP0

I would love to see even an experienced drummania player read it (the only reason I can read those is because i've seen them on 2x/3x/4x and played them hundreds of times on those speeds, etc.)

more examples of songs that would be near impossible on 1x;

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZxQ9dCjXMM8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xeSiB1MpP4M
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dzK8gsrXFCg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=miHJTktWJko

All of those are on 3.5x ; so imagine those as scrunched together as the previous two videos.

I don't care how much you go on "practice" mode, or how much you slow it down or whatever, it's not going to help much if you can't even read the notes at full speed without full memorization.

[tbradshaw]

First, I want to say that I'm a huge fan of yours from your You Tube videos. Both the excellent description and demonstration of drum problems and the absolutely epic expert drum videos; all with the wonderful compositing.

Second, I also have no problem with "hyperspeed" in such that I don't think there is anything "unfair" in any way with rendering the notes at any velocity. The timing doesn't change, it's just a personal preference. I would compare it to buying a book and choosing to get larger or smaller print. /me shrugs. Big deal.

However, this one particular statement I'm going to disagree with for purely nerdy, semantic reasons.


Cheat = gives unfair advantage over other players
Giving an unfair advantage over other players = something that can't be DONE by all other players

Hyperspeed = can be done by all other players

thus

Hyperspeed = not a cheat.

Actually, a cheat would be something that violates the letter (or sometimes the spirit) of the "rules" for the activity. A cheat doesn't necessarily need to give an unfair advantage (but almost always does) and can often be done by all other players. For instance, auto-aim bots in First Person Shooters. Nothing prevents everyone from downloading and using a bot, but it's still widely accepted as cheating. In a similar vein you can cheat in a mechanism that is self destructive, causing yourself to lose at a game and gaining no advantages over other players. It's sometimes done out of spite by *******s.

The term "cheat" is used now as just a marketing gimmick by game makers because there was a "hot market for cheats". Hyperspeed, if properly implemented, would just be a "option", not a "cheat" at all.

On an slightly related note, we were really upset to find that a "color blind mode" was available on Rockstar's Table Tennis, but required a "cheat" to enable and prevented gamer score. :(

Anyway, I have no problem with hyperspeed, although I would prefer instead of "hyperspeed" to just have a variable slider for speed of notes. I respect that Harmonix decided that they didn't want it in their game, probably to eschew the "hardcore" rhythm game crowd in favor of a casual gamer. Hopefully they will have time to cater to both categories of gamers in Rock Band 2.

[Ultrace]

Cheat = gives unfair advantage over other players
Giving an unfair advantage over other players = something that can't be DONE by all other players

Hyperspeed = can be done by all other players

thus

Hyperspeed = not a cheat.
Incorrect. A cheat is anything that modifies the way a game is played from the original design set forth by developers, usually to a player's advantage (although sometimes to actually make the game harder), as it would be in this case by making note reading easier. This is especially true since it's not currently in the RB game and therefore not intended to be part of the normal gameplay. Anyone can use ye olde Konami code to add lives or power-ups to some games--they don't discriminate between any player--but they're still considered cheats.

[Chris_Gonzalez]

Yeah, a good thing it wasn't included since I bet you'd have tons of fun playing drums or vocals in Hyperspeed mode. If you're not breaking your drum peripheral with just the normal way of playing then Hyperspeed would have done the trick.

Could have been fun seeing somebody try to sing as fast as an auctioneer though.


Hyperspeed doesn't change the speed of how fast you need to play the notes. That's just a common misconception. What it does is space out the fretboard so that you can read the notes more clearly. The board needs to move faster so that you're playing the notes on time as if you were playing on normal speed, making it look like you need to play faster.

Think of Normal Speed as fine print and Hyperspeed as Large Print. Big difference, but you're still reading the same amount of words.

[Xney]

Harmonix has made a huge mistake not including hyperspeed in RB.

Not having it doesn't affect anything below the highest difficulties. At the highest level, the notes just squish together. If you're not playing on expert, then you don't really need to use it or even consider it. Maybe you're fine playing expert at 1x speed - that's great. But why not give other people the option?

I find all these arguments about how it's "bad" bizarre. If you took sheet music (which I can read), and squished a page into 1/10th the space, how would that be any different? Any musician would then say "Dammit, these notes are too jumbled together". If you had purchased that sheet music, you'd ask for your money back. Since the game is a digital medium, you could have the option to set your personal preference for what spacing you like. It doesn't change any of the notes you have to play, simply changes the *readability* of them.

I'm not sure why anybody thinks making *reading* the notes difficult is fun. The fun is in having difficult notes to *play*, and making sense enough of the scroll to play them. Not being able to read the notes because they're too close together is no fun at all.

I'd be willing to bet 90% of top GH players and drum game players prefer faster speeds because it makes it easier to read. It doesn't change the fact that they're very skilled at playing, just makes the conveyance better.

Variable scrolling speed is already in the game for different difficulties, so I don't think adding hyperspeed would be much of a coding challange. Harmonix simply does not want to do it.

[logicalnoise]

Harmonix has made a huge mistake not including hyperspeed in RB.

Not having it doesn't affect anything below the highest difficulties. At the highest level, the notes just squish together. If you're not playing on expert, then you don't really need to use it or even consider it. Maybe you're fine playing expert at 1x speed - that's great. But why not give other people the option?

I find all these arguments about how it's "bad" bizarre. If you took sheet music (which I can read), and squished a page into 1/10th the space, how would that be any different? Any musician would then say "Dammit, these notes are too jumbled together". If you had purchased that sheet music, you'd ask for your money back. Since the game is a digital medium, you could have the option to set your personal preference for what spacing you like. It doesn't change any of the notes you have to play, simply changes the *readability* of them.

I'm not sure why anybody thinks making *reading* the notes difficult is fun. The fun is in having difficult notes to *play*, and making sense enough of the scroll to play them. Not being able to read the notes because they're too close together is no fun at all.

I'd be willing to bet 90% of top GH players and drum game players prefer faster speeds because it makes it easier to read. It doesn't change the fact that they're very skilled at playing, just makes the conveyance better.

Variable scrolling speed is already in the game for different difficulties, so I don't think adding hyperspeed would be much of a coding challange. Harmonix simply does not want to do it.

I haven't tried drums on expert yet but the guitar expert charts read perfectly fine at 1x.

[Kythlyn]

Add speed modifiers.

Let each player select them individually from the song select screen.

[deepbluevibes]

Actually, a cheat would be something that violates the letter (or sometimes the spirit) of the "rules" for the activity. A cheat doesn't necessarily need to give an unfair advantage (but almost always does) and can often be done by all other players. For instance, auto-aim bots in First Person Shooters. Nothing prevents everyone from downloading and using a bot, but it's still widely accepted as cheating. In a similar vein you can cheat in a mechanism that is self destructive, causing yourself to lose at a game and gaining no advantages over other players. It's sometimes done out of spite by *******s.

Ok, and these are all true statements; I can't argue with those statements.

However, the main difference here in hyperspeed is that hyperspeed does not *directly* affect other players.

As in, an auto-aim bot is going to waste everyone the minute they get on the server; and killing yourself and screwing over your team affects everyone.

However, Hyperspeed (i'm getting really tired of calling it by the way, i just want to call it speed multipliers, for god's sake) is something that only affects your gameplay; yes, your score will go up on the leaderboards, but it will not in any way *inhibit* other people's gameplay.

If you kill yourself a ton and screw the game for other people by making your team lose, that inhibits others directly; if you kill everyone with aimbots, that affects them directly; if you use hyperspeed, it only affects others INDIRECTLY through the leaderboards.

Thanks for the compliment on the videos too; i never expected them to take off like this, it's to the point where I can't even reply to comments anymore on my videos because i get one like every 5 minutes, i'm honestly surprised.


Incorrect. A cheat is anything that modifies the way a game is played from the original design set forth by developers, usually to a player's advantage (although sometimes to actually make the game harder), as it would be in this case by making note reading easier. This is especially true since it's not currently in the RB game and therefore not intended to be part of the normal gameplay. Anyone can use ye olde Konami code to add lives or power-ups to some games--they don't discriminate between any player--but they're still considered cheats.

So as I asked in another topic; is it cheating to;

-Tape your pads
-Use a real metal bass pedal
-Play with your hands instead of sticks
-Play drums standing up

etc.?

I don't see any of those as cheats personally, as ANYONE can do them.

Again though as i've said over and over;

Blackened
Expert
Drums

watch it and then go back to this discussion and tell me we don't need hyperspeed..


I haven't tried drums on expert yet but the guitar expert charts read perfectly fine at 1x.

Right, and do you know why? Because with Guitar, generally even on the hardest charts in the game, 80% of the notes showing at any one time are single notes;

on drums on expert, 90% of the time the screen is full of double and triple notes (bass pedal, plus two drums). These notes are usually repeated on top of each other because they're hi-hat and snare patterns, so they all get cluttered together.

Since no one else is going to do it, I guess I need to make a video of Blackened just to show how garbage it is. I'm not going to do good on it at all, but yeah.

[logicalnoise]

well either way I'm sure HMX left some sort of code in to activate it. Hell there has been only one code found so far.

[deepbluevibes]

Video'll be up soon; combo video of showing the hardest part of Blackened (the part that needs the speedmods) and showing my new metal bass pedal.

[Ultrace]

Again though as i've said over and over;

Blackened
Expert
Drums

watch it and then go back to this discussion and tell me we don't need hyperspeed..
You make good points about whether or not modding your play style or equipment counts as cheats. For some of those (standing up, using your hands), I would definitely say no. For the others... Not sure.

But the fact that not even a week after the release of the game at least five people (possibly more who didn't get it reported to leaderboards) have already beaten what you consider to be the hardest drum song on expert--a song that didn't even come with the game but only a subset of game purchasers would have access to through DLC--and that number is only likely to rise, means that this is not some impossible feat. Currently, this song probably represents one of the pinnacles of challenge in the game, but it's not only been bested, but almost a half dozen times.

As it is, the song may never be FC'd on Expert, just as Through the Fire and Flames may never be FC'd on Expert in GH3. But it can be beaten and will be. I don't doubt that this song is probably insane on Expert. And I agree that hyperspeed would be a great boon to this song. But clearly we don't need hyperspeed because people have proven that the song can be beaten without it.

[Xney]

Whether or not you "need" speed options, they should be there for those of us who want to use it. In the real world, parts with a lot of notes often are spread out in musical notation, too. It's not any different than that.

The lack of it makes playing frustrating rather than challenging.

[kainzero]

Right, and do you know why? Because with Guitar, generally even on the hardest charts in the game, 80% of the notes showing at any one time are single notes;

on drums on expert, 90% of the time the screen is full of double and triple notes (bass pedal, plus two drums). These notes are usually repeated on top of each other because they're hi-hat and snare patterns, so they all get cluttered together.

on guitar, i agree that i have no trouble reading. nothing is really clumped together and if it is, it's fairly predictable scaling. a speed mod would help but i wouldn't deem it necessary. i didn't even think hyperspeed was that fast on gh2 and even though i enabled it all the time i think i can play just as well without it.

on drums because of the bass pedal i'm finding it hard to grasp the timing on certain songs like maps and i think hispeed would help out a lot.

the thing i don't really get is that there's all this "learn to practice / read the charts", but the speed already varies by difficulty, so anything about realism and "the music experience" is already thrown out the window when they decided to do it. serious.


This is especially true since it's not currently in the RB game and therefore not intended to be part of the normal gameplay.
that's why we're asking them to patch it and add an option for it. duh.
are starcraft and warcraft's constant patches for rebalancing "not part of the normal gameplay"?
what about football's instant replay? that was never part of "normal gameplay".

a cheat, no matter which way you look at it, is something that is against the rules.
what defines "rules" is dependent on the situation. if i ran a tournament and banned hyperspeed, then hyperspeed is cheating. if i ran a tournament and banned the green drum, then using that is cheating.

i don't even know how you can compare hyperspeed to aimbot. aimbot is against the rules. read the terms of service: you know EXACTLY what they intended. in gh2, despite it saying "cheat enabled: hyperspeed", it STILL let you put high scores on the XBL leaderboard. so it's not illegal there.

bottom line, you can't make up your own rules and say hyperspeed is cheating when you have no power to say that.

[deepbluevibes]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VpzhPFOaSxU

IF YOU DON'T LIKE HYPERSPEED WATCH THIS VIDEO

This shows the hardest part of Blackened, the exact reason we need hyperspeed. YES it is passable, and i passed it by scrubbing through that part and ignoring one out of every four bass pedal hits.

Also shows the metal pedal my friends and I made.

[nVizzle]

Harmonix has made a huge mistake not including hyperspeed in RB.

Not having it doesn't affect anything below the highest difficulties. At the highest level, the notes just squish together. If you're not playing on expert, then you don't really need to use it or even consider it. Maybe you're fine playing expert at 1x speed - that's great. But why not give other people the option?

I find all these arguments about how it's "bad" bizarre. If you took sheet music (which I can read), and squished a page into 1/10th the space, how would that be any different? Any musician would then say "Dammit, these notes are too jumbled together". If you had purchased that sheet music, you'd ask for your money back. Since the game is a digital medium, you could have the option to set your personal preference for what spacing you like. It doesn't change any of the notes you have to play, simply changes the *readability* of them.

I'm not sure why anybody thinks making *reading* the notes difficult is fun. The fun is in having difficult notes to *play*, and making sense enough of the scroll to play them. Not being able to read the notes because they're too close together is no fun at all.

I'd be willing to bet 90% of top GH players and drum game players prefer faster speeds because it makes it easier to read. It doesn't change the fact that they're very skilled at playing, just makes the conveyance better.

Variable scrolling speed is already in the game for different difficulties, so I don't think adding hyperspeed would be much of a coding challange. Harmonix simply does not want to do it.


Quoted for truth. Not including it makes no sense at all. Not like it's hard to implement. I've beaten everything on Expert guitar but I'd still prefer to have the chart going faster. Bad decision, in my opinion.

[blue_dragonzero]

That's not all that cluttered at all.

[Ultrace]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VpzhPFOaSxU

IF YOU DON'T LIKE HYPERSPEED WATCH THIS VIDEO

This shows the hardest part of Blackened, the exact reason we need hyperspeed. YES it is passable, and i passed it by scrubbing through that part and ignoring one out of every four bass pedal hits.

Also shows the metal pedal my friends and I made.
Pah, that video is more of an advertisement for your metal bass pedal than anything about the song itself. (Sweet job, btw. :)) The bits shown on the video there do nothing to make me think we need hyperspeed. I was expecting something to pop up with notes right next to each other, but there was even a gap inbetween those. Guitar is more scrunched than that.

Could I play that? No way no how, I lack the skills. But from what was shown there, it doesn't actually look like we need hyperspeed. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but -- is that really the most difficult part of the song?

[deepbluevibes]

You guys aren't taking into account that we're not hitting anything; when you hit the bass pedal on drums, the entire field lights up, and jumps a slight bit, along with the bottom bar glowing bright yellow; add into the fact that the yellow and red notes do the glowing explosion effect also, and basically the bottom fifth of the screen is impossible to read anything on because of all of the effects going on constantly.

Honestly, it's almost impossible to sight-read, or even after going through practice many times.

EDIT: also, just curious, do you guys notice that there's bass pedal beats *in between* the hi-hats? that's mainly the extremely hard part to read, is whether it's just a normal bass beat that lines up with the hi-hat, or whether it's in between hi-hat hits.

[DarkSide]

I can't believe there are so many people opposed to having speed modifiers. How does it affect you? If you don't want to use it, then you simply shouldn't use it. However, for people who want the fretboard to move a bit faster, hyperspeed would allow for them to get more enjoyment out of the game. what's so terrible about that?

No one would be forced to play with hyperspeed on. Implemented properly, multiple people playing on the same console or online would be able to individually choose the speed of their, and only their, fretboard. This way all you closed minded "teh hiparshpeeed iz da cheetzorz" people could play side by side with somone using a speed modifier without being affected at all.

[Ultrace]

I can't believe there are so many people opposed to having speed modifiers. How does it affect you? If you don't want to use it, then you simply shouldn't use it. However, for people who want the fretboard to move a bit faster, hyperspeed would allow for them to get more enjoyment out of the game. what's so terrible about that?
I'm opposed to this for two reasons:

1. The most convincing arguments anyone can field for this are, "I want it so it will make the game easier for me" and "Other games like this one have it." It's already been shown that we don't need this code. The toughest drum songs in the game can be (and have been) beaten without it. No song currently out there is any sort of mythical beast unable to be taken down without this code. It's a luxury. Which leads into #2...

2. Luxury vs. Necessity. Hyperspeed is the former, but things like fixing the PS3 LP guitar issue, online BWT and several other things brought up are the latter, items that prevent you from playing the game. Hyperspeed makes playing drums easier, but a working strum bar makes playing guitar possible. Online BWT would make playing BWT online possible. Even on the scale of luxury items, hyperspeed doesn't compare IMO to having characters that can change instruments or being able to swap your band leader after a BWT band is formed.

I envision the dev team, if they plan on making updates to the game, being very limited in resources and hyperspeed to me personally is very low on the totem pole of updates.

[DarkSide]

I'm opposed to this for two reasons:

1. The most convincing arguments anyone can field for this are, "I want it so it will make the game easier for me" and "Other games like this one have it." It's already been shown that we don't need this code. The toughest drum songs in the game can be (and have been) beaten without it. No song currently out there is any sort of mythical beast unable to be taken down without this code. It's a luxury. Which leads into #2...
How about, "it makes the game more enjoyable for me." That seems like a pretty valid argument given the fact that it was in the previous guitar hero, and a lot of people share this sentiment.


2. Luxury vs. Necessity. Hyperspeed is the former, but things like fixing the PS3 LP guitar issue, online BWT and several other things brought up are the latter, items that prevent you from playing the game. Hyperspeed makes playing drums easier, but a working strum bar makes playing guitar possible. Online BWT would make playing BWT online possible. Even on the scale of luxury items, hyperspeed doesn't compare IMO to having characters that can change instruments or being able to swap your band leader after a BWT band is formed.
If the PS3 Les Paul problem can be fixed, I'm sure it will be. There's certainly been no shortage of people calling for a fix for this issue. And do you seriously think Harmonix/EA is going to put Hyperspeed higher on their to do list than shipping functional peripherals? Of course not.


I envision the dev team, if they plan on making updates to the game, being very limited in resources and hyperspeed to me personally is very low on the totem pole of updates.
People clamoring for a speed mod option isn't going to effect any of these "possible" patches. I agree with pretty much all of the things that need fixed that you've pointed out, and would welcome them, even though I wouldn't use half of them. I don't even own a PS3, and I'm all for the Les Paul problem being fixed. I don't have any faulty peripherals, but for the people that do, I see the importance for this issue to be addressed. So why can't you anti-hyperspeeders just let us make our requests without pissing on our parade.

Of course broken on-disc features take precedence over something that wasn't originally included. No one here is saying hyperspeed should be at the "top of the totem pole." We're just saying it would have a use, and that there is a substantial amount of people who would welcome it.

And to be honest, and realistic, I doubt a single major update is made to Rock Band. We're not gonna get online BWT or the ability to switch a characters instruments. They probably couldn't patch in a hyperspeed option, even if they wanted to, so really, all of this is pointless. So whatever.

[hamthegreat]

How hard would it be to code a simple speed mod that they have done before? The game already seems to run on on a C-Mod, so that would make it even easier. They wouldn't even need to add another menu, on the difficulty select screen, they could make it so you just have to push Back/Select to change the speed mod on your instrument only. It could just say something like, "Scroll Speed 2" under the difficulty.

[MJDoja]

You guys aren't taking into account that we're not hitting anything; when you hit the bass pedal on drums, the entire field lights up, and jumps a slight bit, along with the bottom bar glowing bright yellow; add into the fact that the yellow and red notes do the glowing explosion effect also, and basically the bottom fifth of the screen is impossible to read anything on because of all of the effects going on constantly.

Honestly, it's almost impossible to sight-read, or even after going through practice many times.

EDIT: also, just curious, do you guys notice that there's bass pedal beats *in between* the hi-hats? that's mainly the extremely hard part to read, is whether it's just a normal bass beat that lines up with the hi-hat, or whether it's in between hi-hat hits.

man.. its just a double bass hit.. listen to the song it makes perfect sense. its just a fast tempo that probably is played with double bass since its metallica.

**** like that would break your non metal pedal for sure just cuz its a piece of crap.

your point is still weak IMO, just hope that they cave in to the complaining for "more options" and "patches to balance gameplay" post-release. if you can pull off the move.. it shouldnt be a big deal since the phrase just repeats.. i was expecting crazy fills or something

[AdamWill]

it's not a double bass hit. *edit* the original explanation I wrote sucked ass, sorry. here's a better one.

this pattern is a variation of a simple stock pattern:

hh + b

hh + s

hh + b

hh + s

hh + b

hh + s

hh + b

hh + s

in the variation, the pattern is mixed up; three off-beat bass hits are thrown in.

it's unreasonably tough to read where the off-beat bass hit is and where the pattern is just the stock one. if the chart were scrolling faster so the notes were slightly more spread out, it would be massively easier to pick out the off-beat bass hit.

the question is not *passing* the song. of course that's not very tough. heck, you could just play through that section as if the pattern never changed - hitting a simple 'snare, bass, snare, bass' rhythm all the way through - and it wouldn't lose you anywhere near enough life to die. no. high level play is about doing a lot more than passing the song. anyone reasonably good is aiming for full combos. and the silly density of that note chart makes full comboing that section unnecessarily difficult, not because of any inability on the part of the player to play the pattern, but just because it's stupidly difficult to pick the pattern out.

[deepbluevibes]

man.. its just a double bass hit.. listen to the song it makes perfect sense. its just a fast tempo that probably is played with double bass since its metallica.

**** like that would break your non metal pedal for sure just cuz its a piece of crap.

your point is still weak IMO, just hope that they cave in to the complaining for "more options" and "patches to balance gameplay" post-release. if you can pull off the move.. it shouldnt be a big deal since the phrase just repeats.. i was expecting crazy fills or something

Well, that proves my point; you can't even *read* the notechart yourself; there are no double bass hits in that entire sequence, which is proving what I said, that the chart is too clumped together.

Again, would love to see ANYONE get even up to 4X in that sequence. I honestly don't think anyone's done it yet.

AdamWill, I think you and I are a dying breed, sadly.

[sephiroth702]

I wholly support this feature.

To those of you trying to use the analogy of reading real music, I think your argument is flawed. A more suitable analogy would be if bars connecting groups of notes were so close together, you were unable to distinguish if there were one or two bars, i.e. whether the notes are eighth notes or sixteenth notes. If you haven't heard the song before you could figure it out by realizing out how many beats are in the measure, and subtracting the number of beats comprised by the rest of the notes in the measure and then dividing by the number of notes in the grouping, but how many people can do that while sightreading a difficult song? Similarly, while notes are scrolling quickly and are partially overlapped anyway, I can't tell if there are 6 or 8 notes in a beat (I play drums on Expert). So if I've never heard the song before, I don't know if the drummer plays 16th note triplets or 32nd notes. What do I do? Well, I could of course count the individual notes and compare this with the beat lines that scroll with the notes, but who can do that while sightreading a difficult song?

As a result, sometimes I play triplets when I should be playing a grouping of four of some sort, but because of Rock Band's very lenient timing, I'll score maybe all of the notes but one. This leads me to wonder, "Did I just play the right grouping or did my drum mess up or did I miss the drum head on one of the notes?" Great.

Additionally, to those saying it's cheating because it makes the game easier, what if .5x and .25x speed multipliers were added? Would you then be cheating because you're reading a much more spread out and readable chart than you could be? What if I liked to play on 8x (faster than most people can read scrolling notes, depending on the tempo of the song) and you weren't able to? Would you be a lesser player because you have to use 1x so that you can read the notes?

I played DDR and ITG (not to mention other music games) very obsessively and in competitive play, speed mods were not only allowed, but used by nearly every player. Granted, there were still players who would read on 1x and win (e.g. a guy named Pickles), but people liked to choose whatever they're comfortable with.

I can probably guess the reason most people are opposed to speed mods. They're not good enough that they've had a problem with reading songs. When I first played And Justice For All on Expert drums, I couldn't tell what the rhythm was on the fast green hits at the beginning because they overlap so much and are still scrolling pretty quickly. Chances are, unless you've heard the song (I hadn't), you can't either. This is less of a problem for guitar, because pretty much all of the Expert guitar charts are easier than Guitar Hero's. However, I expect it won't be long before the inclusion of songs that rival Guitar Hero's in difficulty. Can you sightread (i.e. having never seen it before) the Expert solo to "One" in Guitar Hero on standard scroll speed? I already know the answer, and it's no.

[logicalnoise]

I'm not against having hyperspeed but that section of blackned didn't look any tougher than teh and justice for all expert vid I saw. mind you they are indeed hard as hell but I still see no problem getting those beats down. I mean they did include a practice mode for a reason. just go into practice loop that section and just get the bass hits down first. teh rerst is stock and can be applied slowly as you praqctice. If you memorize how to the beat you should only need the chart if you screw up.

[CollegeDropouts]

i don't care that much about the hyperspeed in this game other than solo drums tour but i don't see why you would petition against having it in the game. it will obviously be just an option and you won't have to use it if you don't want to.

maybe some of you haven't played many rhythm games but adjusting the scroll speed and many other options have been around since the beginning. i agree that changing the scroll speed makes it easier to read the notes and general people who use it do better than they would without it so i don't see why anyone wouldn't want to play using the speed they like best.

and if you never used it or tried using it before and didn't like it, then don't give a negative response about it. to be honest, i believe the hyperspeed is for more experienced players. and assuming that the average player plays on medium (which i never heard of someone playing hyperspeed on medium difficulty) then i don't think they should care. it's probably the same people who say no to hyperspeed but think that the fan cap should be removed or the bass pedal on drums.
although i do think it sucks that people get 0 fans for not playing the expert level, i think its worse that 2 man bands (expert guitar and bass) is the easiest to 5 star and gets nearly the same amount of fans as a full band.

advanced players use the hyperspeed option to max out scores and play at their best ability, enabling hyperspeed would only increase competition.

regardless, if you wanna say making it always the same speed to be "fair" then i can see that argument. like i said i don't really care if its on this game other than maybe the solo tours or at least maybe they could stretch out the charts a little bit, lol. but i don't think anyone should petition against it.

[kainzero]

I'm not against having hyperspeed but that section of blackned didn't look any tougher than teh and justice for all expert vid I saw.
you haven't played it
you just saw some other dude play it

justice for all doesn't have that many irregular bass pedals
that song gives me less trouble than maps.

so many people keep saying "well other people can beat it so you can too" and "blackened doesn't look so hard" but they aren't even close to that level themselves.

[Maggot_Brain]

Give us the option for hyperspeed, puh-leeze.

[logicalnoise]

you haven't played it
you just saw some other dude play it

justice for all doesn't have that many irregular bass pedals
that song gives me less trouble than maps.

so many people keep saying "well other people can beat it so you can too" and "blackened doesn't look so hard" but they aren't even close to that level themselves.

and yet I still can read teh chart just fine. It's still just the matter of getting my limbs to do it which brings back to it. I agree that it can be an option but I don't agree that it's required for you to be teh uber awesome at the game. This isn't beatmania(which is a POS game IMO).

EDIT: I admit I'm a bit biased against Beatmania. I make that type of music and I always get annoyed playing it because I know for a fact no producer would use a asstastic layout like the beatmania controller to perform a song.

[Ultrace]

i don't care that much about the hyperspeed in this game other than solo drums tour but i don't see why you would petition against having it in the game. it will obviously be just an option and you won't have to use it if you don't want to.

The time could be better spent on adding/changing other things in the game. An option that I don't have to use and won't use is a lot less important to me than adding something that I might just use.

[CollegeDropouts]

like what? good question, what should harmonix work on adding? if you have any ideas to make the game better and more fun for others like yourself then start a thread with your opinion and hopefully people will be cool and look into and give you some good feed back this sentence is long.

but this thread is about hyperspeed, and to many other people we actually do think it would be a great addition for us. i'm sure it's not that easy to download a hyperspeed update into our Rock Band from our consoles. but if it happened, think about all the majority of players who don't use the forums or rockband.com and all of a sudden when you load up it tells you hyperspeed is now an option. either some players will say ok cool but i dont care im just going to keep playing, and then those who want hyperspeed... "F@# YEA!".:D

[logicalnoise]

dude your still assuming there isn't a code for it. They did it for Guitar hero 2 so it's not unlikely that it's in rock band somehwere. the biggest hitch is that if it affects all the instruments then some people may not like it. It's not easy to implements omething like hyperspeed into rock band just with a patch. It needs to be tested thourghly. SO unless it is unlockable via a cheat code it probably won't be a patch.

[CollegeDropouts]

also bro you said you rather use an option that you would like rather than one that you wouldn't use. other people play this game too! but you know that of course, more like other people play differently is all.

i dont know what the fuss is all about not allowing a new option to the game. im sure if someone made a poll or petitioned about an option of having Harry Potter shredding lead with Jesus Christ on vocs and Donkey Kong playing his bongo drums i dont think anybody would be against it.

unless you think harry potter is *** or you're religious or think donkey kong is stupid and im an idiot.. but just, why not?!

ROCK!

[DavidSpooky]

it will obviously be just an option and you won't have to use it if you don't want to.

Kind of like ...And Justice For All (The main if not ONLY song referenced in this entire thread as a reason for hyperspeed) not being required to beat the solo drum tour, but as an optional download?

I want to see some on-disc (non downloadable content) examples for your guys' logic in needing hyperspeed. My main problem on hard drums is coordinating my foot with my arms when it comes to alternating bass pedal and the other notes. (ie. O, R+Y, O, R+Y)

[CollegeDropouts]

i think all you guys need to understand, the reason we want hyperspeed rarely has to do with PASSING a song. we wanna rock the hell out of it and own the score, combo some stuff so we think we are playing the real deal and improve our note % which we think speed modifers are the key!

listen, it just took me about 10 hours to read all these posts and i see there are those who continue to post back and forth and i just wanna jump in from a different point of view. i dont know big words and have musical talent, but i can move parts of my body to scrolling shapes. i dont know how many beats are in a measure going 100mph at 3/4 with a double bass 32nd half note. but i have been playing rhythm games for years, and i can tell you right now Rock Band is the biggest rip of all time. i'm not bashing rock band, i love it, me and my friends have a great time. you guys ever play guitar freaks in the arcade? it was so fun and addicting, and then guitar hero came out which was U.S. portable so of course it was awesome. and drummania as you guys should know, is the coolest one of them all. it's like a real drum set! but we're talking $1000+ dollars for one of these babies. in japan they have some ps2 home versions but if you wanted that shipped to america you're looking at 500$ or something because you need a japanese ps2 + the expensive game and shipping. after always being 15 years behind japan in technology (joke), naturally someone figured it out that it would be a huge success in america. Guitar Hero came out and eventually evolved into Rock Band later in which owes much to the other games before it. to not implement a scroll speed modifier is totally against how these games are supposed to be played. and i KNOW that drummania and possibly guitarfreaks players laugh in our rock band faces at so called expert and such, although would never say it's a bad game. now i feel like harmonix is just saying rock band is their game and this is the speed that their going to play on. which also sounds like **** You.

[AdamWill]

Kind of like ...And Justice For All (The main if not ONLY song referenced in this entire thread as a reason for hyperspeed) not being required to beat the solo drum tour, but as an optional download?

I want to see some on-disc (non downloadable content) examples for your guys' logic in needing hyperspeed. My main problem on hard drums is coordinating my foot with my arms when it comes to alternating bass pedal and the other notes. (ie. O, R+Y, O, R+Y)

it's just a good example, I'm sure others can be found. for me the biggest problem with slow scroll speeds is rolls - you can't possibly read the timing difference between two fairly fast rolls at a slow scroll speed, there just isn't space for the difference to be visible.

no offence, but if you're having trouble with that pattern, you're about eight months behind my level of play and a couple of years behind deepbluevibes', so I'm not that surprised you don't see the problem yet. you also need to have some experience playing drums at a decent scroll speed to understand why it's better than a slow one, it's not necessarily easy to understand if you haven't experienced it.

[Lastblade]

Just do it Harmonix so this post will go away.

[DavidSpooky]

it's just a good example, I'm sure others can be found.
Then let them be seen, until then the only thing everyone who wants hyperspeed has is ...And Justice For All, which is an OPTIONAL download.


no offence, but if you're having trouble with that pattern, you're about eight months behind my level of play and a couple of years behind deepbluevibes', so I'm not that surprised you don't see the problem yet. you also need to have some experience playing drums at a decent scroll speed to understand why it's better than a slow one, it's not necessarily easy to understand if you haven't experienced it.

No offense, but I could ****ing care less on how much behind I am from you, since the drum aspect of Rock Band is the first time I touched anything close to a drum set in my life (excluding that one time in 6th grade when the entire school went dicking around all the different classes for a day and I dicked around on their drum set). I can read the notes just fine it's my coordination that needs work. That guy who beat ...And Justice For All is an actual drummer who's skill I won't get anywhere near for a long time so thank god that song is downloadable content.

They made practice mode for a reason guys. If they didn't care about you actually getting good at the game (and being good at a game = more fun) then they would have given you guys this crappy cheat.

[tucsonovernite]

soooo....Harmonix had hyperspeed in a couple guitar hero games and they chose to remove it for RB(doubt it was an oversight)....go figure. Sorry i'm gonna defer judgement to the people who created the game...it's not like they never heard of hyperspeed or anything..

Just wanna say I used it also in Guitar Hero II and 80's but don't feel the need so much on RB...is the default scroll speed faster on RB (ala GHIII)?

[MJDoja]

Well, that proves my point; you can't even *read* the notechart yourself; there are no double bass hits in that entire sequence, which is proving what I said, that the chart is too clumped together.

Again, would love to see ANYONE get even up to 4X in that sequence. I honestly don't think anyone's done it yet.

AdamWill, I think you and I are a dying breed, sadly.

go make some babies with him..

honestly, it sounded like and sorta looked like a quick two hit bass coming between hihats.. what kinda groove is just randomly placed kicks? either they follow the guitar phrase or its something in equal parts. i didnt take the time to analyze the chart since i just glanced at it in your video, but if i were gonna try and learn it (no desire to learn that song even though i bought it) im sure i could make sense of the chart after some practice.

you can keep on with your points of view.. but until harmonix comments differently i dont see the issue.

of course its IMPOSSIBLE to make sense of the chart without hyperspeed, but with a couple times faster on the chart, it would ALL suddenly make sense..

when you slowed it down, it (the part) in question made a little bit of sense at least.. im sorry that harmonix would be so insensitive as to not include an option to make the game easier for you on reading the toughest charts in the game. dang. keep fightin !!

edit: and i dont really see any guitarist clamoring for hyperspeed. so.. just the ex/current-konami-drummania crowd is lobbying for hyperspeed. coz its superior optionz and theyre used to it in their 400bpm 2/2 j-rock tunes.

either.. harmonix messed up and didnt include an option to speed up drum charts where impossible songs have zomg drum fills and impossible random bass hits. one clump coming up at once with who knows what contained in all those hits, nobody will know how to have fun because they will never understand what they are playing. even after learning the song from playing it 100 times, it will still make no sense.
or.. they didnt give you the option to because it "detracted from the experience" that they had intended. aka, a conscious decision. WHO KNOWS?

so lets just assume harmonix are dummies cuz OPTIONS (cheats are for noobs, pros dont cheat) are what AMERRICA is all about.

[CollegeDropouts]

ok im pissed seriously, reading all this stupid ****. i had a few nice posts but now people are just being dumb.

NOOBS need to gtfo of this thread because it doesn't concern 99% of you. there is lots of players better than me but others who play at the same level can 100% medium and 99% all hard without hyperspeed. cool, dont need it. but there is 1 higher difficulty than that in which NONE of you guys play, its called expert. and yea if you play guitar hero and beat it on expert like MANY of us, you will beat the solo tour in a day without the need of hyperspeed. you gotta understand the competitive players don't buy a game like rock band and play to barely survive expert 3 staring all the songs and complete the game thinking we just did the impossible. in fact, i can already 5 star all the songs on guitar. we think we can do better using hyperspeed than so what, i dont even care if people call it a cheat. when people hear the word cheat they think oh its so bad yet you can't do what we can anyways so whats the point. i know there's a lot of things you could say about oh why does it matter what difficulty and you're an ******* thinking your cool because you play expert, whatever i dont care. someone had to say it and sometimes it just takes some truth. so go back to playing medium everything and weezer, nirvana, garbage, hole, soundgarden on hard. if this is your first game like this or if you suck, shut up please. when guitarhero came out with hyperspeed codes i dont think it stopped anyone from buying it and then im sure no one was playing it (without hyperspeed) and ever thought while playing "god damnit i wish this game didnt have hyperspeed its ruining the game" also when you do battles and faceoffs on xboxlive they dont allow hyperspeed, and all hyperspeed users would agree that thats fine and understandable but dont take it from our own solo and local coop.

i just wanna know WHY, if you dont use it why are so against having it in the game? jealous? because you don't know how to play on it? leaderboards? sorry i know you're pretty good at maps on easy bass but even helen keller actually shes pretty good but the worst expert player will beat your score no matter how horrible.

[Eman311]

^ no need to be so arrogant

I play expert guitar. I have since GH1.

People who use hyperspeed claim it helps them "see it better". am i wrong in this assessment?

you'll make the argument you're still playing the notes and the song the same. which is correct.

but if you're using hyperspeed to see the charts better, it's an advantage you're exploiting to yield higher scores. that's why people are against it.

personally I couldn't care less if its made available. it has never affected leaderboards or online modes, so how does it hurt anyone?

[AdamWill]

Then let them be seen, until then the only thing everyone who wants hyperspeed has is ...And Justice For All, which is an OPTIONAL download.



No offense, but I could ****ing care less on how much behind I am from you, since the drum aspect of Rock Band is the first time I touched anything close to a drum set in my life (excluding that one time in 6th grade when the entire school went dicking around all the different classes for a day and I dicked around on their drum set). I can read the notes just fine it's my coordination that needs work. That guy who beat ...And Justice For All is an actual drummer who's skill I won't get anywhere near for a long time so thank god that song is downloadable content.

They made practice mode for a reason guys. If they didn't care about you actually getting good at the game (and being good at a game = more fun) then they would have given you guys this crappy cheat.

See, this is where you fall down. I said no offense and I meant no offense: being good at drumming games is more or less 100% a function of practice, so I'm not revelling in the warm glow of being awesome or something. I've just played a lot more than you.

But the point is this: the need for faster scroll speeds is something that mostly manifests itself with complex charts and high level play. Mostly the people asking for higher scroll speeds are *good players*. I'm better than you. deepbluevibes is better than you. We are the ones asking for higher scroll speeds. (And deepbluevibes is the guy who beat ...And Justice For All, btw.) He already *is* good at the game. So saying "They made practice mode for a reason guys. If they didn't care about you actually getting good at the game (and being good at a game = more fun) then they would have given you guys this crappy cheat." is just...silly, really. It's good players who want faster scroll speeds, not bad ones. If you're not a very good player yet - which, as I said, is just a function of how much you have played the game, this is nothing like "I'm awesome, you suck, shut up" - you just haven't experienced the reason why slow scroll speed is bad. When you're playing simple, slow patterns, you don't need faster scroll speed.

[AdamWill]

mjdoja: the bass hits aren't random (they're either on the beat or exactly alternate), they're just complex. it's not a dumb or silly pattern, just quite a complex one; it sounds good when you play it right and that *is* the pattern in the song. if the scroll speed were reasonable, it would be pretty simple for an experienced player to read; it's just that at that slow scroll speed, the differences in spacing are sufficiently tiny that it becomes a real pain.

eman311: that argument has been addressed. the point is that the challenge in rhythm game is *playing* the chart, not reading it. Harmonix, by their own account, did a lot of testing and experimentation expressly to make the charts as easy to read as possible (this is why they changed from circles to squares, and they experimented with several possible representations of the bass notes for drums and settled on the orange bar because they decided it was 'easiest to read'). given this, I would argue that it's obvious HMX do not want people to have unnecessary trouble reading the charts, they want the challenge to be in *playing the charts*. yes, we want speed mods to make reading the charts easier, but we don't consider that a 'cheat' in any sense. and as I've written already, no-one is opposed to having the speed used for a score reported on the leaderboard along with that score, for people who want to ignore 'high speed' scores.

[CollegeDropouts]

eman what are you talking about. it doesnt affect rock band because rock band doesnt have it. but all leaderboards for all other games that have it DO count and the biggest tournaments in the world for these games all accept this option. my bad eman lol. i dont mean to like lay it on you, ya know. i just also wanted to say why do people think it was invented in the first place, you know some dude was like WTF i can't even see these notes its so slow is there anything we can do to make it more enjoyable? and speed modifiers were invented. if it makes it "easier" why dont you give it a shot? because if it doesn't make it easier for you than you're just going to come back and ***** about how you dont like it for some reason. and if i DID make it easier and you were doing a lot better then i really doubt anyone would say this sucks i hate hyperspeed because im doing good now. ecspecially since its widely acceptable everywhere but on rock band, apparently. try it out before you start talking and be HONEST. you could have been someone that was like totally against it and hates the idea of having it and then go and try it, come back and say Thank you for showing me this, this is awesome! and i would totally forgive you and and say yea i know you were an idiot. just try that. what does take the experience from the game mean? i dont care about getting the game to have the experience of feeling like im in a fake rock band, it's just a game that i wanna do my best at.

[Darkhorse4life]

No, there is no right and wrong way to creating difficulties. It's just your way of justifying the need for the feature. I have to tell you that every rythm game I've ever played I've never had a problem with reading the notes/steps on the hardest difficulty. I'm not saying I'm awesome but that maybe the people that use hyperspeed just need to practice instead of resorting to hyperspeed to make things easier. I have nothing against hyperspeed itself, just the people that feel the need to use it to lower difficulty. That being said I have used hyperspeed in a few games thinking I was going to further challenge myself only to find that it is only easier to play. I am all for the idea of there being features that alter the game experience but they need to be within areas of "Quickplay" as it dummies the difficulty for completing the games on the highest difficulty.

I registered for these forums solely for the intent of blasting this post.

1) I have 5 stars on every song in Rock Band right now on guitar except for Blackened, am currently halfway through expert drums, and halfway through hard on vocals. This was only to show that I can obviously compete on a decent level in this game. I'm not bragging about it, just stating that obviously I don't "NEED" hyperspeed to get high scores.

I would love for hyperspeed to be in this game. I'm really sad that it isn't, and I feel like it is a step backward for music games. Pretty much every iteration of music games... whether they are US or Japanese made have had speed mods/hyperspeed mods. I feel like the removal of this feature is setting a bad precedent for things to come. Features shouldn't be removed, they should be added.

2) As for the part where you claimed you had no problem beating songs on the hardest difficulty in music games without speed modifiers... you obviously havn't played many of the Konami music games such as Beatmania, Drummania/GuitarFreaks etc... otherwise please post a video of you beating some 12's in Beatmania IIDX without any speed mods. In fact show me a video of ANYONE beating a difficult song in IIDX without a speed modifier. Very difficult to find one, the last good one I saw was Lisu getting a good score on V on Another difficulty.

I'm not trying to say Beatmania (a game that pretty much has next to 0 appeal in the US) is the same type of game as Rock Band, I'm simply trying to say that this poster doesn't really have the perspective that he/she claims that he/she has.

[Eman311]

I have tried hyperspeed and I don't like it.

and i'm glad all you and your fake band care about is your precious rank.

[Darkhorse4life]

Nevermind, shouldn't have registered, the first 3 posts on this page (17) sum up my feelings accurately. ;) Carry on the flame war!

[MJDoja]

Nevermind, shouldn't have registered, the first 3 posts on this page (17) sum up my feelings accurately. ;) Carry on the flame war!

dont ever learn how to express yourself properly :D

[MJDoja]

ok im pissed seriously, reading all this stupid ****. i had a few nice posts but now people are just being dumb.

NOOBS need to gtfo of this thread because it doesn't concern 99% of you. there is lots of players better than me but others who play at the same level can 100% medium and 99% all hard without hyperspeed. cool, dont need it. but there is 1 higher difficulty than that in which NONE of you guys play, its called expert. and yea if you play guitar hero and beat it on expert like MANY of us, you will beat the solo tour in a day without the need of hyperspeed. you gotta understand the competitive players don't buy a game like rock band and play to barely survive expert 3 staring all the songs and complete the game thinking we just did the impossible. in fact, i can already 5 star all the songs on guitar. we think we can do better using hyperspeed than so what, i dont even care if people call it a cheat. when people hear the word cheat they think oh its so bad yet you can't do what we can anyways so whats the point. i know there's a lot of things you could say about oh why does it matter what difficulty and you're an ******* thinking your cool because you play expert, whatever i dont care. someone had to say it and sometimes it just takes some truth. so go back to playing medium everything and weezer, nirvana, garbage, hole, soundgarden on hard. if this is your first game like this or if you suck, shut up please. when guitarhero came out with hyperspeed codes i dont think it stopped anyone from buying it and then im sure no one was playing it (without hyperspeed) and ever thought while playing "god damnit i wish this game didnt have hyperspeed its ruining the game" also when you do battles and faceoffs on xboxlive they dont allow hyperspeed, and all hyperspeed users would agree that thats fine and understandable but dont take it from our own solo and local coop.

i just wanna know WHY, if you dont use it why are so against having it in the game? jealous? because you don't know how to play on it? leaderboards? sorry i know you're pretty good at maps on easy bass but even helen keller actually shes pretty good but the worst expert player will beat your score no matter how horrible.

formatting and textsize should go hand in hand

[tbradshaw]

Please keep discussion to the merits of hyperspeed and away from personal insults/attacks.

[xXxKidderxXx]

LMAO NO HYPER SPEED!!!! and it doesnt make it more "difficult" it actualy makes it easier ... It spreads the notes farther out...your still clicking the strummer at the same speed as u normally would the only thing you need is reaction time and enough time on expert would make hyperspeed only look like a step up from hard to expert...so hyperspeed is pointless

[AdamWill]

LMAO NO HYPER SPEED!!!! and it doesnt make it more "difficult" it actualy makes it easier ... It spreads the notes farther out...your still clicking the strummer at the same speed as u normally would the only thing you need is reaction time and enough time on expert would make hyperspeed only look like a step up from hard to expert...so hyperspeed is pointless

...aaaand another person wins the "didn't read the thread" award.

[MJDoja]

Please keep discussion to the merits of hyperspeed and away from personal insults/attacks.

enjoy the thread

[blue_dragonzero]

You guys aren't taking into account that we're not hitting anything; when you hit the bass pedal on drums, the entire field lights up, and jumps a slight bit, along with the bottom bar glowing bright yellow; add into the fact that the yellow and red notes do the glowing explosion effect also, and basically the bottom fifth of the screen is impossible to read anything on because of all of the effects going on constantly.

Honestly, it's almost impossible to sight-read, or even after going through practice many times.

EDIT: also, just curious, do you guys notice that there's bass pedal beats *in between* the hi-hats? that's mainly the extremely hard part to read, is whether it's just a normal bass beat that lines up with the hi-hat, or whether it's in between hi-hat hits.

Then ask Hmx to fix the flashes and the skip. It is something that Hmx might actually do, as we all know that they won't patch hyperspeed.

[Brane Ded]

Funny how people get so up in arms over something that doesn't even affect them.

[deepbluevibes]

go make some babies with him..

honestly, it sounded like and sorta looked like a quick two hit bass coming between hihats.. what kinda groove is just randomly placed kicks? either they follow the guitar phrase or its something in equal parts. i didnt take the time to analyze the chart since i just glanced at it in your video, but if i were gonna try and learn it (no desire to learn that song even though i bought it) im sure i could make sense of the chart after some practice.

Uh, no.

The fact is, as you all keep on going on about "harmonix says this so it is law" etc., that means you lose all right to complain about "randomly placed kicks" if you're going to go down that path.

You're STILL missing the point; you couldn't even read that while watching the video, which means my point stands; watching that at 100% speed, the chart is illegible unless you've memorized the song.

All of you go on too about "memorize this"; the whole point of these games is to NOT have to memorize things; I can tell you that all of the scores i've set on this game (minus four or five songs) are first run-throughs; the point of these games is to get good enough so that your first effort is pretty damned good.

Blackened stifles this pretty quickly, NOT because it's physically or mentally hard, which would be something that takes TRUE skill, but because you can barely read the notes.

Which takes more skill;

-Playing Rock Band with a perfect controller?
or
-Playing Rock Band with a broken-ass controller and a blurry TV?

If you say the latter takes more skill, in my opinion, it doesn't; it just makes you look like a dumbass trying to do good in very ****ty conditions, and you're not going to do as good as the other guy with the perfect controller, no matter how good you are, because it's something that WILL cause you to break your combo.

What i'm getting at here is that Blackened is not hard because it's HARD; it's hard because we can't read the damned notes, even in practice mode, you essentially have to 100% memorize those parts, which is just plain stupid; anyone can beat anything once you've memorized it, so where's the skill in that?


edit: and i dont really see any guitarist clamoring for hyperspeed. so.. just the ex/current-konami-drummania crowd is lobbying for hyperspeed. coz its superior optionz and theyre used to it in their 400bpm 2/2 j-rock tunes.

Wow. Can you be any more uneducated?

As i've said in other topics, less than 10% of drummania is J-Pop, I personally don't even LIKE J-pop and only one song in Drummania gets up to 400bpm, and that's ONE SONG. Seriously, research what you're debating against BEFORE you try to look informed.


so lets just assume harmonix are dummies cuz OPTIONS (cheats are for noobs, pros dont cheat) are what AMERRICA is all about.

I could give a **** less about America, but your sarcasm really didn't bring any new points to the table, and as i've seen of many of your posts, you pretty much are uninformed about everything you just said in that post. :(

As many people have said too, sadly, it sounds arrogant, but the truth is, speed mods are things that experienced, skilled players use to improve thier already high scores; this should kind of be a hint to other players who aren't as skilled that their scores may be increased using this also, shouldn't it?

As people have said, anyone can use hyperspeed; if you don't like it, don't use it. Period. This whole bull**** about "evening it out for everyone" is really ******ed and exactly the direction America's going in, with this stupid **** where everyone is trying to cater to everyone else so that no one is left behind, no one is meant to feel "bad", or anything else.

I really wish video games were still as they were when I first played them 20 years ago;

-If you suck, you get better, and you use whatever methods possible to achieve it.
-If others beat you, you get better, and you use whatever methods possible to achieve it.
-If you're good, you keep on practicing and getting better.

BUT AT NO POINT were video games equipped with features back in the day to "even out the field". If you got owned in SFII, you got OWNED. You delt with it and you came back next week with a bit more experience and didn't get owned as bad; you didn't have Street Fighter: Perfect Balance Edition with every character only having one move and only able to deal the same amount of damage to each other because it would be "fair".

IF pros are using hyperspeed, then YOU USE HYPERSPEED IF YOU WANT TO BE ON THIER LEVEL. If pros are using negative flip a ***** and do a head-spin speed, YOU DO THAT TO BE ON THEIR LEVEL; otherwise, you either have no desire to be at pro level WHICH IS PERFECTLY FINE, or you are just being what we in the fighting game circles call "a scrub", which is refusing to use a feature of a game simply because they feel it is "unfair" to use it, and thusly no one else should get the chance to use this feature, aka what most of you are doing in regards to hyperspeed.

None of this is personal towards anyone; this is more adressed as a whole towards the entire mentality of gamers and the games that are released in recent years who want everything handed to them on a platter and to not work for anything on ALL games; I can understand it on some games, but every time any "hardcore" game comes out, swarms of "casual" gamers rush them and complain about how hard it is and then say the game sucks because it's "too hard".


I have tried hyperspeed and I don't like it.

and i'm glad all you and your fake band care about is your precious rank.

We don't mind that you don't have any desire to better yourself at the game; so how come it irritates you so much that we have a desire to better ourselves at the game?


Then ask Hmx to fix the flashes and the skip. It is something that Hmx might actually do, as we all know that they won't patch hyperspeed.

However, the flashes and the skipping ARE needed; you're missing the point again. That's like saying a car with a faulty engine needs to have it's tires and windows replaced, and to not adress the engine.

[kainzero]

Kind of like ...And Justice For All (The main if not ONLY song referenced in this entire thread as a reason for hyperspeed) not being required to beat the solo drum tour, but as an optional download?

I want to see some on-disc (non downloadable content) examples for your guys' logic in needing hyperspeed. My main problem on hard drums is coordinating my foot with my arms when it comes to alternating bass pedal and the other notes. (ie. O, R+Y, O, R+Y)
i bet you could hit that alternating bass pedal if you put on hyperspeed
'cause i can't do it for crap in this game but i can totally do it on drummania.

i just beat ...and justice for all on expert and i'm not even close to beating detroit rock city or wave of mutilation.

...and justice for all was never referenced either. blackened was.

seriously, why are people who aren't good at the game posting in this thread? you don't need hyperspeed for medium or hard (but i bet i can name parts where using it would make it easier). and you guys saying "well so-and-so can beat it", obviously, YOU can't and maybe mr. so-and-so wants hyperspeed.

[MJDoja]

Uh, no.

The fact is, as you all keep on going on about "harmonix says this so it is law" etc., that means you lose all right to complain about "randomly placed kicks" if you're going to go down that path.

You're STILL missing the point; you couldn't even read that while watching the video, which means my point stands; watching that at 100% speed, the chart is illegible unless you've memorized the song.

All of you go on too about "memorize this"; the whole point of these games is to NOT have to memorize things; I can tell you that all of the scores i've set on this game (minus four or five songs) are first run-throughs; the point of these games is to get good enough so that your first effort is pretty damned good.

Blackened stifles this pretty quickly, NOT because it's physically or mentally hard, which would be something that takes TRUE skill, but because you can barely read the notes.

Which takes more skill;

-Playing Rock Band with a perfect controller?
or
-Playing Rock Band with a broken-ass controller and a blurry TV?

If you say the latter takes more skill, in my opinion, it doesn't; it just makes you look like a dumbass trying to do good in very ****ty conditions, and you're not going to do as good as the other guy with the perfect controller, no matter how good you are, because it's something that WILL cause you to break your combo.

What i'm getting at here is that Blackened is not hard because it's HARD; it's hard because we can't read the damned notes, even in practice mode, you essentially have to 100% memorize those parts, which is just plain stupid; anyone can beat anything once you've memorized it, so where's the skill in that?



Wow. Can you be any more uneducated?

As i've said in other topics, less than 10% of drummania is J-Pop, I personally don't even LIKE J-pop and only one song in Drummania gets up to 400bpm, and that's ONE SONG. Seriously, research what you're debating against BEFORE you try to look informed.



I could give a **** less about America, but your sarcasm really didn't bring any new points to the table, and as i've seen of many of your posts, you pretty much are uninformed about everything you just said in that post. :(

As many people have said too, sadly, it sounds arrogant, but the truth is, speed mods are things that experienced, skilled players use to improve thier already high scores; this should kind of be a hint to other players who aren't as skilled that their scores may be increased using this also, shouldn't it?

As people have said, anyone can use hyperspeed; if you don't like it, don't use it. Period. This whole bull**** about "evening it out for everyone" is really ******ed and exactly the direction America's going in, with this stupid **** where everyone is trying to cater to everyone else so that no one is left behind, no one is meant to feel "bad", or anything else.

I really wish video games were still as they were when I first played them 20 years ago;

-If you suck, you get better, and you use whatever methods possible to achieve it.
-If others beat you, you get better, and you use whatever methods possible to achieve it.
-If you're good, you keep on practicing and getting better.

BUT AT NO POINT were video games equipped with features back in the day to "even out the field". If you got owned in SFII, you got OWNED. You delt with it and you came back next week with a bit more experience and didn't get owned as bad; you didn't have Street Fighter: Perfect Balance Edition with every character only having one move and only able to deal the same amount of damage to each other because it would be "fair".

IF pros are using hyperspeed, then YOU USE HYPERSPEED IF YOU WANT TO BE ON THIER LEVEL. If pros are using negative flip a ***** and do a head-spin speed, YOU DO THAT TO BE ON THEIR LEVEL; otherwise, you either have no desire to be at pro level WHICH IS PERFECTLY FINE, or you are just being what we in the fighting game circles call "a scrub", which is refusing to use a feature of a game simply because they feel it is "unfair" to use it, and thusly no one else should get the chance to use this feature, aka what most of you are doing in regards to hyperspeed.

None of this is personal towards anyone; this is more adressed as a whole towards the entire mentality of gamers and the games that are released in recent years who want everything handed to them on a platter and to not work for anything on ALL games; I can understand it on some games, but every time any "hardcore" game comes out, swarms of "casual" gamers rush them and complain about how hard it is and then say the game sucks because it's "too hard".



We don't mind that you don't have any desire to better yourself at the game; so how come it irritates you so much that we have a desire to better ourselves at the game?



However, the flashes and the skipping ARE needed; you're missing the point again. That's like saying a car with a faulty engine needs to have it's tires and windows replaced, and to not adress the engine.

tl;dr dead horse

read my posts before responding, and comprehend what im saying when i ask if youre calling what *I* called, "double bass hits between hihats when i glanced over the chart for a second" -- "random bass notes"

[deepbluevibes]

tl;dr dead horse

Then I have no reason to ever take you seriously if you won't read other people's posts; if you won't read mine, why should I care about yours?


read my posts before responding, and comprehend what im saying when i ask if youre calling what *I* called, "double bass hits between hihats when i glanced over the chart for a second" -- "random bass notes"

uh... what? you just completely confused the **** out of me there.

You called them random bass notes to begin with, and you called them double bass hits to begin with; your statement doesn't even make sense.

Regardless, I read your post, you didn't read mine, so thusly, your opinion means jack to me now. :D

[SmokaCola]

The game is just fine without hyperspeed tbh =\ The way they did the speed this time is just a tad bit slower than GH2's hyperspeed. So really there is no need for it.

[sephiroth702]

Obviously this game isn't fine without speed mods. There are songs that very few people have beaten and this is even with real drummers playing the game. These people's limitations are clearly not playing the drums, it's interpreting the mess of crap on the screen.

Honestly, do you people realize Rock Band doesn't scroll on a standard 1x speed anyway? It's running on a C-mod, so that the scroll speed is normalized to one value in spite of the BPM of the song. This means that slow songs are much much much more spread out than fast songs. This is in effect a speed mod that takes on a different value on each song. So that on slow songs, you're playing maybe 3x or 4x, while on a very fast song, you're playing 1x or 1.5x. You guys need to stop cheating by playing on the standard scroll speed. Cheaters.

Everyone seems to think that speed mods solely make the game easier and that having everyone read the same speed is "evening" the playing field. However, when you compare pros at other music games, different people prefer different scroll speeds. If one guy likes 2x on a song and another guy likes 3x, they certainly wouldn't feel comfortable having to play the same speed. The 2x guy would feel like 3x is way too fast and requires faster reactions than he's capable of and therefore do badly, while the 3x guy would feel that 2x is too slow and jumbled together, causing him to do badly. So if these two guys are forced to play on 3x, is the 2x guy bad? Vice versa, if the two guys are forced to play on 2x, is the 3x guy bad?

I propose that they take out the C-mod, don't add speed mods, and change the standard scroll speed to 8x, where only some people have the reaction time to read it. That way, we can level the playing field of everyone.

[Maggot_Brain]

Why do we have to level anything? Some people, me included, like hyperspeed so we can see the damn notes instead of big clumps. Just give us the option.

[blue_dragonzero]

I do see your point about hyperspeed now. I would agree to putting it in. However it would also be productive to ask Hmx to minimize the explosions to help visibility on certain *AJfA* songs.

[Ultrace]

It sounds to me like an option to remove the shake from the kick pedal may accomplish as much as this since that's a major cause of the issue here (and having played GH2-80s-3, seeing shaking makes me think I've screwed up.)

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Give it up! If you want hyperspeed, go play Guitar Hero.

[MJDoja]

Then I have no reason to ever take you seriously if you won't read other people's posts; if you won't read mine, why should I care about yours?



uh... what? you just completely confused the **** out of me there.

You called them random bass notes to begin with, and you called them double bass hits to begin with; your statement doesn't even make sense.

Regardless, I read your post, you didn't read mine, so thusly, your opinion means jack to me now. :D

clearly , i worry about the opinion of you. if youre not going to read my short posts and attempt to understand what i mean, then the penultimate post you make on a pretty dead topic MIGHT go unread by me. i personally understand where youre coming from, but it sorta tough when i dont agree with a faulty argument.

edit: btw you reek of ignorance and pigheadedness.
ever think that other play video games? bemani games? fighting games? your post was as worthless as my reply gave off. You talk about sf2 having no options.... but in fighters, you dont enable hyperspeed, you just exploit game mechanics. on the top level of fighting game play theres no need for advanced options.. just controllers.

your point about blurry tv's and broken drum controllers...
nothing to do with hyperspeed.

just like.. get off of your high horse for a second and realize that other people experience the world that goes on around you.. arcade infinity has been a bemani spot for years, and will continue to be, so like.. im glad that you play DM.. but this isnt DM. stupid harmonix for being so STUPID as to not include such an elite player option.

clearly, harmonix has no experience with bemani and drummania games, or else theyd know how everybody who plays them at the top level is used to their scroll options as well as a multitude of other options. right? CLEARLY NOBODY IN THE WORLD EXCEPT THE MOST ELITE ARCADE-GOERS has ever SEEN OR EXPERIENCED BEMANI.

gimme a break, fool. try calling harmonix and getting a straight answer instead of tryin to flex your "uuber SNES and AI" gaming experience.. like it mattered or i cared.

this is about the arguments for and AGAINST hyperspeed (like the only comment harmonix has made on the issue thus far)

[MJDoja]

Obviously this game isn't fine without speed mods. There are songs that very few people have beaten and this is even with real drummers playing the game. These people's limitations are clearly not playing the drums, it's interpreting the mess of crap on the screen.

Honestly, do you people realize Rock Band doesn't scroll on a standard 1x speed anyway? It's running on a C-mod, so that the scroll speed is normalized to one value in spite of the BPM of the song. This means that slow songs are much much much more spread out than fast songs. This is in effect a speed mod that takes on a different value on each song. So that on slow songs, you're playing maybe 3x or 4x, while on a very fast song, you're playing 1x or 1.5x. You guys need to stop cheating by playing on the standard scroll speed. Cheaters.

Everyone seems to think that speed mods solely make the game easier and that having everyone read the same speed is "evening" the playing field. However, when you compare pros at other music games, different people prefer different scroll speeds. If one guy likes 2x on a song and another guy likes 3x, they certainly wouldn't feel comfortable having to play the same speed. The 2x guy would feel like 3x is way too fast and requires faster reactions than he's capable of and therefore do badly, while the 3x guy would feel that 2x is too slow and jumbled together, causing him to do badly. So if these two guys are forced to play on 3x, is the 2x guy bad? Vice versa, if the two guys are forced to play on 2x, is the 3x guy bad?

I propose that they take out the C-mod, don't add speed mods, and change the standard scroll speed to 8x, where only some people have the reaction time to read it. That way, we can level the playing field of everyone.

what kinda post is this? i propose you stop making outlandish propositions..

too bad if youre physically capable of playing the song, it doesnt matter what speed its on. because its still possible to complete it.

the fact stands that you guys wont take no for an answer, so either harmonix will listen to you, or theyll tell you know and youll continue the outcry on such a travesty.

cheat codes or merely options? what do YOU think?
harmonix design decisions? hah theyr moorons!

[espher]

I just wanted to say anyone wanting the fan cap removed should be 100% behind this.

[MJDoja]

I just wanted to say anyone wanting the fan cap removed should be 100% behind this.

i actually dont want the fan cap removed, and i am also not a supporter of hyperspeed (for sake that harmonix specifically intended to leave it out)

however, ive never been a big fan of hyperspeed in DDR/pump, GH or whatever, so i dont miss the lack of the option. but other more elite rhythm gamers feel like its just "noob" to not have hyperspeed in a drum game as an apparent option. entitled?

[tbradshaw]

This thread has flamed out.