Master Recordings??? explain.

[BJtheDESTROYER]

 I am a fan of the both the guitarheros and am
obviously looking forward to Rockband.  Through the years of
guitarheroing i have always heard people complain about the fact that
the songs are covers.While i have found the complaints
understandable (as they are obviously covers), i have always thought it
necessary for the songs to be covers in order to function in the game
the way they do. See, I am a professional audio mixer and
engineer.  I realize harmonix needs the guitars split out of the mix in
order to make the audio enter and exit as a player plays either the
correct or incorrect notes in the game. For example, splitting
the guitar solo out of zeppelin song is impossible, unless you recreate
the whole thing from scratch, or have the original splits.Every
article i have read about Rockband makes bold claims about harmonix
getting the rights to the master recordings so that all the songs in
Rockband are going to be the 'real deal'. What i don't
understand is, even given the original masters, some of the older
songs and really anything done on analog tape (anything pre-1998, when protools started to become standard),
probably don't have recordings of the original takes and splits.  It is
probably all mixed together, even in its master form prior to it's initial printing.  soooo, how is harmonix going to get the splits of every individual instrument out of these 'master recordings'?? (I
would also imagine for a drumset to function in the game, you need not
only the drum recording seperate from the rest of the song, but also
each individual sound in the drum kit (kick drum, snare, hh, etc.)
seperated from on another for the game to function.) I find it
hard to believe that given how some of the classic rock songs are,
that even with the master recordings, Harmonix is going to have to
recreate some of these songs from scratch in order for them to work in
context of the game. Anyone have any insight or thoughts relevent to how the master recordings would/could be split up for use in Rockband?I have a hunch some (if not most) of the songs will still have to be covers.

[tbradshaw]

<p>Hey BJ,

Good commentary.</p><p>I think your expertise in the matter is probably much greater than mine, but I had a couple thoughts on the matter.</p><p>First, regarding the drums, I don't think that it will require a separate track for each procussion instrument.&nbsp; While that is the most intuitive sound, I think instead we'll see a mapping of track to note that is more of an issue of continuity than absence.&nbsp; For instance, in guitar hero now if you're building a chord in sustained notes and miss a note, all notes cease while an error chime is played (and, if appropriate, all sustained notes resume on the next correct gem).&nbsp; Similarly, I expect that a crash symbol followed by some fouled up snare work will result in an error chime, rather than a sustained crash and an error chime.</p><p>Second, when it comes to older masters, do you think that recent "remastered" releases could have some effect on your analysis?&nbsp; While I completely agree that removing the guitar solo from the analog recordings of Led Zepplin sounds like an arduous task, I thought that this audio grunt work was part of what made remastered releases possible.&nbsp; Perhaps I'm wrong, and a "remastering" is just some audio filters ran on the entire wave to improve overall sound, but it seems that perhaps some remastering engineers would make a strong effort to separate the tracks where possible.</p><p>However, I share your curiousity with regard to how this is going to work.&nbsp; Some of the older songs in Guitar Hero were often my favorites, and I look forward to transitioning to Rock Band to continue my classic rock guitar lick addiction.<br></p>

[BJtheDESTROYER]

<p>tb,</p><p>
</p><p> While I completely agree that removing the guitar solo from the analog recordings of Led Zepplin sounds like an arduous task, I thought that this audio grunt work was part of what made remastered releases possible. Perhaps I'm wrong, and a "remastering" is just some audio filters ran on the entire wave to improve overall sound, but it seems that perhaps some remastering engineers would make a strong effort to separate the tracks where possible.</p><p></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>'mastering' typically means processing the final track in its completion. a 'remaster' is just the doing the process again, years later, with better equipment.&nbsp; 'mastering' is the final stage in making a song, after the recording and mixing.&nbsp; After the final mix (mixing the different splits of the different instruments together), there is only one file, the completed song, that is sent to be mastered (a process involving final compression and eq-ing).&nbsp; When you buy a remastered zeppeling disc, it is not 'remixed', it is 'remastered'.&nbsp; They never needed the original splits to 'remaster' it.</p><p>&nbsp;For the purposes of Rockband though, they would need the splits, and thus they would also need to both remix the splits, and remaster the whole song, even if they had the master recordings (which i doubt they do for every song they want to put in the game.&nbsp; because as i said before, the splits probably no longer exist for some of the songs that are 20, 30, 40 years old).</p><p>IMO, remaking the songs so they can work in the game could only be done in two ways.</p><p>1.&nbsp; They have people rerecord everything from scratch and make very accurate covers (which is what harmonix has done for every song that has ever been in either guitarhero)</p><p>2.&nbsp; They get the original recordings and splits from the record labels that own them.&nbsp; even if they did this, they would have to remix and remaster these 'master recordings'. &nbsp; To do this so as the final mix sounds EXACTLY the same as the original would literally be almost impossible.&nbsp; Almost all the songs were done on old school outboard analog equipment.&nbsp; If any setting on any effect unit were to be any different then when the original was made.... it could/would sound different.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>these are the reasons i am skeptical that this game can be done with original recordings, it just doesn't seem possible from a tech standpoint.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>i would be curious if any harmonix folk had any insight, as they are the ones doing it.&nbsp;</p>

[HMXWhitestar19]

<P>You forgot #3.</P>
<P><BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Magic.</P>

[rspooky]

That was well written and I was thinking the same thing.<BR/>But I must say I love the cover singers (as posted earlier last week)<BR/>They do an outstanding job on the GH series ( as well on the KR series)<BR/>And at times it is even better then the original ( thanks to the remix/master)<BR/>

[e13ctr0n]

Lolololololol

lololol@bumping a year old thread

[Anthonysandoval]

*Head Explodes*