I have 2 questions that came to mind after watching this upcoming Jazz track.

The vocals are tracked as a saxophone part with notes in place of lyrics, and the lead guitar part is tracked as a piano. A track like this that deviates from the traditional instrument roles opens up whole new avenues to explore and I'm not sure that HMX is 100% prepared for what people come up with.

My first question is can someone submit slightly different versions of the same track? For instance, could this song (or any other song that substitutes notes for lyrics) be available transposed into a bunch of different keys to accommodate people playing it on different instruments? Having to transpose the notes (or even attempt to play it by ear if you have perfect pitch) is not something most of us are capable of. Is there a limit to how many versions of a song can be submitted? It doesn't even have to create much more work either if once the original version is approved, different versions could be granted fast track status and not require as rigorous a review.

Also, when the author substitutes something like a piano for the guitar part, it can make more sense for the entire song be charted as a solo. Like a piano, the notes would just be finger tapped and not awkwardly played like a guitar. Is there some rule that states what the maximum solo length is? The only thing in the official rules about this is "...and use it only when there is an obvious solo." The case could easily be made for a song like this that the entire song is a piano solo.

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Originally Posted by BriGuy

My first question is can someone submit slightly different versions of the same track?

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I don't see why not. It would have to pass Peer Review again, but for the Jazz example I guess they could release another version with no vocals if they wanted to.

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Originally Posted by BriGuy

Is there some rule that states what the maximum solo length is?

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I do not believe there is a hard rule and you bring up an interesting concept. I would love to see a track like this pop up for testing. I definitely think playing the whole piano on the solo keys could be cool.

Saying that Harmonix might not be 100% prepared for what people come up with is kinda silly. In this case, it was discussed heavily on the RBN forums before being approved. If someone decides to just chart whatever they want to whatever parts they want, it won't always get through review just because this song did. This song is a perfect example of the creativity and imagination that Harmonix actually WANTS to see come through the RBN.

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Originally Posted by Kariodude

Saying that Harmonix might not be 100% prepared for what people come up with is kinda silly.

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Oh I don't know about that. The mere fact that I (and many other people) can ask questions like these that are not addressed in the authoring guides is proof that when you hand over deep and flexible tools to a lot of creative people, they will come up with things you could not predict. I'm sure there are still many new ways people will use these tools that will take us all by surprise.
Do you think that the creators of Little Big Planet could have predicted in a thousand years that someone would have made a working mechanical calculator with those tools?

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Originally Posted by BriGuy

Oh I don't know about that. The mere fact that I (and many other people) can ask questions like these that are not addressed in the authoring guides is proof that when you hand over deep and flexible tools to a lot of creative people, they will come up with things you could not predict. I'm sure there are still many new ways people will use these tools that will take us all by surprise.

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Not prepared for and knowing what people will do is not the same thing. They may not know what creative people will do but they have a system of dealing with new ideas and issues as they arise. There was a lengthy discussion on the sax vocals where HMX pretty much said this is exactly the type of thing they were hoping for when they released RBN. So yes they are prepared.

Furthermore, HMX is on the record that they want the community to have a say in "what's allowed" when it comes to RBN. They'd rather not make rulings in terms of absolutes, as this would stifle some great creative ideas.

- m

To answer the question about multiple versions, yes, it is possible to release different versions of a song by giving it different names. As an official example, HMX released "Working Man" (which was a cover) and later released "Working Man (Vault Edition)". The same can be done with RBN but it is not a good idea to do this unless the versions of the song you are releasing are significantly different; for example, a live recording vs. a studio recording, or a longer extended version of a song.

I doubt that the author would release multiple versions of this song simply to transpose the notes. It's pretty much a given that when it comes to anything on RB vocals you're playing by ear, since the charts are not an absolute musical scale where the same pitch is in the same vertical position across different songs. In the first playtest version of that song the lyrics were actually "Brr brr brr". :)

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Originally Posted by trg007

In the first playtest version of that song the lyrics were actually "Brr brr brr". :)

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Which was pretty stupid...

...because everyone knows "Brr brr brr" is a trumpet sound! ;)

- m

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Originally Posted by BriGuy

Also, when the author substitutes something like a piano for the guitar part, it can make more sense for the entire song be charted as a solo. Like a piano, the notes would just be finger tapped and not awkwardly played like a guitar. Is there some rule that states what the maximum solo length is? The only thing in the official rules about this is "...and use it only when there is an obvious solo." The case could easily be made for a song like this that the entire song is a piano solo.

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That's an interesting idea. If there was a way to turn on a sort of auto-strum feature, then the Strat controller could be played lying down to simulate a keyboard. Right hand playing on the solo keys (for higher piano) would be delineated by the blue solo sections, and left-hand play (for more bass sections and/or chords) would occur during the normal black background.

Of course, this would entail disabling the percentage counter during the solo sections and the bonus points at the end, which I'm sure is impossible to do in RBN. Sad, as intriguing as this is. :(

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Originally Posted by DavyinaToga

Of course, this would entail disabling the percentage counter during the solo sections and the bonus points at the end, which I'm sure is impossible to do in RBN. Sad, as intriguing as this is. :(

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I think this is the biggest issue with making the song one long solo. If you did that, the score for getting 100% would be about 50% more than the score for missing one note.

I could still see making a case for it, although I imagine people would be much more likely to accept a one-long-solo song if it actually was one giant solo, rather than just for the sake of activating the solo buttons for the entire song to simulate a piano. Although there is some precedent to this with Rude Mood, a song where pretty much the entire song is a guitar solo and Harmonix opted to label nothing as a solo rather than nearly everything.