Loooong rambling post a-comin'... didn't want to reply to anything until I watched that documentary that was posted. I also wanted to watch a few more episodes, but alas, couldn't find time for them. Best case scenario, everything I'm about to say will be rendered mute when I reach the end of the season and become a brony... (oh lord).

I wrote this post at different points of the day, and being a mild insomniac, have not slept in about two days, so forgive any places where I feel a bit schizophrenic. Just one person posting, I promise.

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Originally Posted by firedoom666

well if you are up to it I would recommend watching a few more episodes... most people agree that the first two episodes are fairly weak compared to the rest of the series...

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I'm going to stick it out for the first season. I don't suspect I'll ever come to fully understand Bronies, but I'm hoping I'll at least be able to figure out why they consider it a good/interesting show.

Who knows, though, maybe it will "click" at some point, and I'll become a brony. In case of such an event, I have a friend who has promised to shoot me.

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Originally Posted by Gowienczyk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature..._IDX98g#t=771s

Watch this documentary from this point in.

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Finally watched it. I'll say that it was illuminating in a way, and towards the end, even interesting. His enthusiasm put me off a bit, particularly in the positively awkward section where he describes the characters, but I did find the last twenty minutes or so interesting.

The most thought provoking point he had, in my opinion, was the accusation that many associate "show for girls" with "bad". I'm going to extend that a bit, and just say "children's show". I was having a conversation with a friend about crunkcore not too long ago; he insisted that it is possible to make crunkcore, and that no genre is inherently bad. I jokingly responded that, if a crunkcore song became good, it would cease to be crunkcore, and instead be something else. I'm not entirely sure how serious I was, but I think it applies, because there often are stigma's associated with different genres of entertainment. So, are all children's cartoon shows aimed directly at little girls automatically bad? I'm not entirely sure, though I think that very label suggests a great deal about the content, without even viewing the content itself. You know, for example, that it will almost surely be highly cutesy and highly direct. So, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that these ingredients will make a great children's show, and I can't really say that My Little Pony isn't a great children's show. I can only say that it's going to be quite difficult to overcome the stigma's that already come with the genre.

Another part of the documentary that I found interesting was the segment on "adult references" contained in My Little Pony. Was surprised to see David Bowie and Big Lebowsky, to be sure. However, I personally find the idea that the references that are contained within a show can be used as any sort of indication or, as the narrator puts it, "proof" about the show itself totally ludicrous. It's like insinuating that Family Guy is a brilliant piece of art because it features a fairly wide variety of references, from Dickens and Thomas Paine to innumerable film and TV references. Now, don't get the wrong idea, My Little Pony seems to insert the references in a much more tasteful and skillful manner (if you think I'm being uncharitable to My Little Pony, you don't want to hear me complain about Family Guy... sheesh).

My first instinct is, I hate to admit, to compare the bronies to the juggalos, as they're both trends that follow something that I truly cannot understand. However, I think that would be a huge disservice to bronies. I dislike My Little Pony, but I hate Insane Clown Posse and all that they stand for. I can at least see some merit in the former, where I believe the latter should be repeatedly struck with lightning and have their names purged from history. And as far as I'm aware, no one has been given a Brony funeral... yet.

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Originally Posted by skyp1e

If it really is just "it makes me happy" or "makes me feel good" then I have to wonder if there aren't some sort of subliminal mind control aspects to this show. Because I see fans online that I can't exactly connect to this show at all. Some of them even here on these very forums.

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I'm no anatomist, but I believe that pain and pleasure are very closely linked in the human brain, and thus, there's often a very thin line between them. Might be a great reason why that warm, fuzzy feeling that many fans of the show get turns to a burning agony for me. I suppose it's similar to how a song that may be catchy to some is horribly obnoxious for other, admittedly smaller numbers.

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Originally Posted by FujiSkunk

Not sure if serious, but that comes off as just a tad insulting. "I don't get it, and I don't get why you get it, so there must be something making you like it." No, there is nothing "making" me like it. I simply do. It has a cute art style, it has well developed characters and (usually) well developed stories, and it has clear morals that everybody could stand to learn from. Beyond that, why I like it is subjective, and no amount of explaining why I like it will matter if you decide you don't like it. But fortunately, no one in their right mind will hold it against you, either. The herd will still Love and Tolerate you. ;)

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I'd argue that there are always tangible qualities to something that you like, something that makes you like that thing in the first place. Even if it's something like taste... most would answer, in response to why they like their favorite food, "I just like it", but there are some specific things you like about it, even if you, for obvious reasons, don't want to spell them out to someone. For My Little Pony, I imagine there are reasons that fans like it, and that's what I'm so desperate to discover. It may just be the "warm and fuzzy feeling" effect.

You use Harry Potter as an example in one of your posts. That's a very good one, I think, but I'd argue it's much more than "not getting it" for some. For me, it's not that I "don't get" Harry Potter, as I was fully on board with it when I was a kid, read the books in one sitting, multiple times, you know how it goes. However, now I despise the books. It's not because I just don't get some magical quality about it, but because I have reasons why I believe it is, overall, a very hackneyed work. So I do think those qualities always exist, for everyone, even if they aren't always readily apparent.

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Originally Posted by Gowienczyk

Why would anyone into animation ignore such smooth animation, great heart and three dimensional characters in all honesty. These characters are not cardboard or plastic. They have flaws (some of which lead to two characters having mental breakdowns). As for heavy-handedness? Yeah, the show isn't subtle, but it doesn't need to. But it has enough references that makes adults chuckle (given they get the references) for example Diamond Dogs and David Bowie. I've watched all of FIM in it's entirety and a lot of Spongebob and I have to disagree. But I hate the sort of animation and style that show inspired as well as find it unfunny personally. But to eachs own.

The documentary is simply to understand other's perceptions and to be informed.

How can you despise a tone that promotes tolerance, love and acceptance?

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A film can be fantastically shot and still be a bad film. Even I can say that the animation is quite skillfully done, even if I do find a lot of the ponies a bit too similar in appearance. Again, I won't say that My Little Pony is bad, in the most general sense, but I do see it as a very temporary thing (noting, of course, that trends never truly die out).

I'm really not eligible to comment on the characters and their development so far, as I'm only three episodes into the series (meant to watch another one today, but got sidetracked). The only thing I can really say on first impression... is that I find Apple Jack a thoroughly nauseating character (do ponies ever get killed off?), but that may be from watching that documentary. Who knows, all this complaining may be completely premature, though I'd naturally assume this wouldn't be a show that takes awhile to "take off".

On the references: see above for my take/whining about that.

Finally, on the subtlety/tone. You're right, it does accomplish what it sets out to do, which is what makes me thing that I'm per-destined to hate this show, and no other execution could make me see otherwise. I remember awhile ago, we had a conversation on the plot of the Uncharted video games. In case you don't remember, I love the Uncharted games, but hate the story and most of the characters. Why? Because it's a shameless ode to action movies, particularly Indiana Jones (which I am also not a fan of, even having grown up with them, though I do still enjoy Raiders of the Lost Ark to an extent), seems to relish in it's annoying dialogue, actively seeks out cliche's, and so on. The thing is, it's actually done very well, assuming it is going for that testosterone-fueled action movie feel. I just don't like that feel. It takes a very, very special kind of action movie to entertain me, and Uncharted went for that very un-special one. Still love the games, but they have gameplay to fall back on.

For My Little Pony, it's not the fact that it preaches love and acceptance that repulses me, but rather, the manner it preaches it. Obviously, I'm not against love and acceptance, but it doesn't just simply boil down to the morals it is trying to impart. Troll 2 is a film that preaches love and the power of family, but that's all irrelevant in the face of everything else about that movie (though I genuinely enjoy Troll 2). MLP is a kids show, and a kids show ultimate objective should be to teach the kids a lesson... love and acceptance isn't a bad lesson at all, and in which case, it probably should be heavy-handed. You can't get much more heavy-handed and blunt than My Little Pony, at least from what I have seen. The very sub-title says it all. The documentary featured three or four instances, at least, of characters spouting the sacred one-liners about how "friendship conquers all", or whatever. All good lessons, but it is not the lessons I despise. Hell, "despise" is an overly strong word that really does not apply to me. It all brings me back to my point that My Little Pony is a great show for its target audience, but not a show that I really can understand other audiences enjoying. There's obviously something I'm missing here. That capacity to love, maybe? I kinda lack that...

Dunno. My favorite work of fiction is George Orwell's 1984, so maybe I'm not on board with the whole "happiness" thing? :(

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Originally Posted by LiveHomeVideo

Let's not criticize others for not liking the show. As I always say: If someone doesn't like something you do, so what? You still enjoy what you enjoy and they enjoy what they enjoy.

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Bronies are too nice :)

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Dunno. My favorite work of fiction is George Orwell's 1984, so maybe I'm not on board with the whole "happiness" thing?

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I love 1984, Brave New World and plenty of dystopians; and I can cherish happiness (to a point). Regardless, I'm interested to see where your thoughts go as the series progresses. I don't know if it was the Faust "factor", the quality of flash animation in the show, Daniel Ingram's compositions, the optimistic and endearing tone or the three dimensional characters that got me. But I liked this show far before I started getting into the brony community.

Instantdeath's whole post really does a good job of outlining how I feel about the whole MLP phenomenon, but this paragraph really nails it on the head for me:

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MLP is a kids show, and a kids show ultimate objective should be to teach the kids a lesson... love and acceptance isn't a bad lesson at all, and in which case, it probably should be heavy-handed. You can't get much more heavy-handed and blunt than My Little Pony, at least from what I have seen. The very sub-title says it all. The documentary featured three or four instances, at least, of characters spouting the sacred one-liners about how "friendship conquers all", or whatever. All good lessons, but it is not the lessons I despise. Hell, "despise" is an overly strong word that really does not apply to me. It all brings me back to my point that My Little Pony is a great show for its target audience, but not a show that I really can understand other audiences enjoying. There's obviously something I'm missing here. That capacity to love, maybe? I kinda lack that...

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I'm completely on board with his sentiments here.

Fantastic execution (i.e. great animation, fleshed out characters, good writing, etc.) is not enough to sway me into liking something, let alone joining the legion of fanatics for something (read that as ANYTHING).

On the other hand a show can have apparently poor execution (Regular Show, Adventure Time, Southpark) and completely win my heart. I realize those examples given may create a visceral knee jerk reaction. Those are just MY examples, I'm sure that if you search your personal database of shows you enjoy you can find something were the artwork, animation, style isn't "superb".

Strip away the veneer of any show, leave the unpainted face of the show in place and you should be able to explain what tickles you about it.

Please do not infer that I'm bashing MLP, I'm not I am just trying to discover the appeal. If it really is just "makes me warm and fuzzy", then I guess I'm never going to like the show. I like my "warm and fuzzy" in small doses and preferably with a spoonful of sugar (like being funny or at least relatable to my own experiences where drama is concerned).

And WHY am I trying to discover why people like it? Why don't I just accept that some do, I don't and move on?

Because I love what fans of the show create online supposedly for other fans. I also am trying to reconcile how the offerings of said fans appeals to other fans of this show when the show itself doesn't seem to correlate to this type of entertainment at all. I mean if Bronies enjoy seeing Applejack gorge herself on apples in a youtube spoof, it logically follows that something about the show lends itself to why.

"Warm and fuzzy" doesn't fit that logic.

I'm going to repeat that I have nothing against "warm and fuzzy", but there's a great youtube video by wowcrendor where he responds to allegations as to why his videos are "so negative". He responds with a great sendup stating simply, "because positive isn't very funny". He's right, it isn't.

I think I finally found a really likable episode. After writing the above wall of text, I did a youtube search on "funny my little pony". Probably should have done that at the start.

Nearly all of the video was clips that, although were amusing weren't really funny, but at the end they showed only clips from an episode featuring fluttershy as a fashion model. Now THIS was funny. I don't think I laughed out loud at any of it, BUT I don't always actually laugh when something is funny.

Okay, so if anyone else beside me in the same boat as "I don't get it" (looking at you Instantdeath), let's check this whole episode out.

Green Isn't Your Color

I'm going to watch it now and report back when I'm done.

Have you seen Feeling Pinkie Keen, SkyPie? I still think that's the best (and funniest) one yet, though all the giggling at the very end seems a bit forced after the rest of the episode.

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Originally Posted by DerLindwurm

Have you seen Feeling Pinkie Keen, SkyPie? I still think that's the best (and funniest) one yet, though all the giggling at the very end seems a bit forced after the rest of the episode.

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Okay so I watched both of these episodes (the Green one and the Pinkie Keen one). The fashion show one was cute, I was entertained by it enough and the funny parts from the montage video that drew me to it were still funny parts in context.

The "Feeling Pinkie Keen" episode was better and I can't quite help feeling that it is kind of apropos for this discussion. I expect that those of us like myself that are trying to pin down the appeal of the MLP show are the "Twilight Sparkles" of this thread. Well played if that was your intention.

:p

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Originally Posted by skyp1e

The "Feeling Pinkie Keen" episode was better and I can't quite help feeling that it is kind of apropos for this discussion. I expect that those of us like myself that are trying to pin down the appeal of the MLP show are the "Twilight Sparkles" of this thread. Well played if that was your intention.

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No, I'm not that clever. :p But, yes, it is. I just thought it was a particularly funny episode where I first began to realize that the characters actually have pretty complex personalities (in some episodes, anyway.)

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Fantastic execution (i.e. great animation, fleshed out characters, good writing, etc.) is not enough to sway me into liking something,

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This sounds so absurd and headscratching to me.

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Originally Posted by Gowienczyk

This sounds so absurd and headscratching to me.

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Not really hard to grasp. Something can be technically proficient, but if it lacks in something as fundamental as "being entertaining" then it's not going to do it for me.


Whereas as a counter example I offered up shows like Regular Show, Adventure Time and Southpark where on the technical end of the spectrum they are hardly Disney quality, but still I love these shows in spite of such subjective flaws.

That help any?

Maybe I should offer another example of excellent animation where outside of the gloss there's nothing there for me to enjoy?

I'll submit the movie Pocahontas as such an example. All the glitz is there but I couldn't sit through it.

Or maybe Up might be a good example? The voice acting is great, Pixar is probably my favorite production company, but the movie leaves me feeling flat. It simply doesn't grab me at all. Not because of technical flaws but simply because it's missing a hook for me.

Good writing, character development and fluid cinematography/animation should be entertaining alone and a formula for enjoyment, honestly. But iunno.