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Originally Posted by lemonsquared

whats the point of trying to top the leaderboards if they are going to change the rules constantly.

There is so many things one could say about this, but honestly its not worth my time. I am done with blitz

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You are right on lemonsquare. Not only does it defeat the purpose of playing when they randomly change the game and tell no one but the change makes the current scores impossible to beat.

I am baffled by this decision which is why I can only rationalize this as a mistake. If these people understood the community in their game they would have never done this. A decision like this would prove how out of touch they are with their own game. A decision like this goes against everything they have done previously. Which is why this has to be a mistake.

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Originally Posted by MasterMo

So, I guess I probably have to take a large part of the blame for this, huh?

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No. If anyone to blame is Harmonix's coders/testers for not picking up how to score by their own set of rules.

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Originally Posted by MasterMo

Something needed to be changed, sure, but that change should have come as buffs to other powerups and blitz mode.

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Bingo.
As far as I'm concerned, they can buff until the cows come home. They can double point values every year to have people coming back to replay stuff if they so chose. Either way, leaderboardboards scores would always be obtainable by anyone.

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Originally Posted by MasterMo

...new top scores are still going to be ones that can utilize that strategy to accumulate extra overdrive and hit extra notes.

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Correct.
Juggling lanes is an important part of Blitz no matter WHAT loadout you use. By playing 2 lanes, you are going to potentially get double the amount of points you normally would. I guess Harmonix thought this was the easy fix?

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Originally Posted by cowboys282

The Bandmate/Flame affected so few songs. I just don't understand the logic in this decision.

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That's grossly inaccurate. As I've grown better at juggling lanes I've pushed into mid-tier songs and beyond and held solid flame note juggles. Its really only faster more note-dense songs or songs with very little of a particular instrument that couldn't be used with bandmate/flame.

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Originally Posted by Mircosoft93

I used jack/flame all the time it's just a matter of getting used to new power-up combos

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Well you won't anymore, no one will. Jack/Blast seems to be the far better option now. With Blast notes apparently getting a buff. And flame notes + jackpot was the ultimate risk reward. After this. There is absolutely no reward for your risk. In fact, your extreme risk and flame luck might not even break you even with jackpot/blast.

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Originally Posted by Mircosoft93

I mean, wouldn't it be ideal if there are lots of power-up combos to choose for getting high scores, that's the reason why HMX put that many power-ups in the game in the first place I guess.

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There kind of are. I'm not sure how well button mashing flame chains gets you in faster more note dense songs for the most part, it can't be done legitly without flailing. And that's when I turn to different loadouts. Or as I mentioned, many 5 lane songs. Or songs with very spaced out instrument notation.

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Originally Posted by Mircosoft93

On a side note I find it funny how MasterMo is the guy moaning the most

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wat

He is equally concerned with illegit bandmate/flame abuse. But he and I agree, this was not the proper solution.

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Originally Posted by MasterMo

If HMX decides/has decided they don't like the way I play their game and want to ensure I can't do that any longer, then so be it. I'll find another game to spend my time and money on.

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I'm right there with you man. And its not to punish Harmonix. Its not to boycott them for this decision. Its a matter of not being able to compete on leaderboards anymore using my chosen playstyle. I too no longer have interest in Blitz anymore. Perhaps I will be spending more time on RB3 as I have been neglecting it since Blitz. However XMB gets old REAL quick. My patience had really run its course with it and Blitz was certainly a breath of fresh air, minus many, many, Rock Central shenanigans not accepting my score after a 2112 run to name one.

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Originally Posted by cowboys282

But I can assure you everyone of my scores I beat using Jack/Flames over Jack/Blast and I am sure you have as well. And although Jack/Blast does take skill Jack/Flame is always more challenging.

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Isn't that kind of the point? More challenge/skill based loadouts should reward in higher scores. Jackpot/Flame is now worthless. If you don't believe it then try it for yourself. 9/10, you are better off using jackpot/blast. All the skill/reflex/lane juggling you've learned to become accustom to now goes unrewarded. As your playstyle has now become worthless in the eyes of the leaderboard.
You can argue that bandmate/flamenotes don't take any skill. Perhaps they don't when you button spam. But EVERYONE can agree on that. This was not the solution to that problem.

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Originally Posted by cowboys282

And yes the little I hear of MasterMo he seems to be very high on himself.

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wat

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Originally Posted by Mircosoft93

I agree that it requires more skill and mostly results in a better score than jack/blast but it was OP. band/flame was OP too and nerfing flame notes was maybe not the best solution but a very efficient one. The only issue I have is with not reseting the leaderboards. And I understand why ppl don't like that, I spent hundreds of hours in Blitz too but in the long term it's the best they can do

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It was overpowered. Nerfing ANYTHING is never the solution in the case of this game. Its score/leaderboard based. There are buffs to be had, penalties that could of been played for abuse. They went for an easy fix, and it broke the leaderboards.
For them to wipe leaderboards is crazy.
Crazy. They didn't wipe drum leaderboards when people found out about those notes underneath the drum fills. I don't expect them to wipe leaderboards. They will stay that way until it is rebuffed, if ever. With hundreds if not thousands of unobtainable scores.

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Originally Posted by MaximusDM

That's grossly inaccurate. As I've grown better at juggling lanes I've pushed into mid-tier songs and beyond and held solid flame note juggles. Its really only faster more note-dense songs or songs with very little of a particular instrument that couldn't be used with bandmate/flame

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As to your first point I would disagree that it is " Grossly Inaccurate" that Bandmate/Flame only affects a few songs. There are only two songs that I play that I get better scores with using Band/Flame. They only have 3 lanes. The songs are:

Green Day - Good Riddance
Pearl Jam - Just Breathe

And before you say "I have plenty of songs that I do better with Band/Flame" that might be true. You might have plenty that you do better then yourself in. But not better than me. If I played a song you will see me in the top 10 sometimes top 20. If you have a song which you play best with Band/Flame and are ahead of me in it I would love to hear about it. Every other song Ive played I used Jack/Flame to get the score.

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Originally Posted by MaximusDM

Isn't that kind of the point? More challenge/skill based loadouts should reward in higher scores. Jackpot/Flame is now worthless. If you don't believe it then try it for yourself. 9/10, you are better off using jackpot/blast. All the skill/reflex/lane juggling you've learned to become accustom to now goes unrewarded. As your playstyle has now become worthless in the eyes of the leaderboard.
You can argue that bandmate/flamenotes don't take any skill. Perhaps they don't when you button spam. But EVERYONE can agree on that. This was not the solution to that problem.

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And you are correct with this one. Jack/Blast is the lesser skilled combo. Comparing Jack/Blast to Jack/Flames is like comparing 2X Points to Jackpot.

My only problem with Flame notes are that they are to random. There was little consistency to them which affect the score of a song each time you play it. you could perfect a song but if you did not have enough Flame notes spawn it would prevent you from getting a high score.

I have tried every combo in the game. The most skilled combo is Jackpot/Flame. Those who complained were never good enough at the game to get a good score with it. Isn't the point of a game to be challenging?

The band-aid solution. My old nemesis.

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Originally Posted by SirDavidTLynch

It was somebody with just one post saying "lol loser posting this is pointless because HMX aren't going to do anything" or something like that. When the trolling is that obvious, it's best to just report it and move on.

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I tried it and it didn't work. Then when I tried vigilante justice, that didn't work either. So I'm out of ideas.

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Originally Posted by cowboys282

As to your first point I would disagree that it is " Grossly Inaccurate" that Bandmate/Flame only affects a few songs. There are only two songs that I play that I get better scores with using Band/Flame. They only have 3 lanes. The songs are:

Green Day - Good Riddance
Pearl Jam - Just Breathe

And before you say "I have plenty of songs that I do better with Band/Flame" that might be true. You might have plenty that you do better then yourself in. But not better than me. If I played a song you will see me in the top 10 sometimes top 20. If you have a song which you play best with Band/Flame and are ahead of me in it I would love to hear about it. Every other song Ive played I used Jack/Flame to get the score.

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We all thought and agreed that jack/flame was the best combo but it was certainly not the case. You could get over a million on These Days with bandmate flame for example, and easily get over 750k

The scores you could get were astronomical with band/flame and that was likely the reason why HMX even nerfed flame notes. I doubt it was from just jack/flame.

There are even combos that outclass jack/flame and still do without the use of flames notes. I did not use flame notes on my 773k on BYOB nor on my 871k run on Guns of Summer.

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Originally Posted by zage1337

We all thought and agreed that jack/flame was the best combo but it was certainly not the case. You could get over a million on These Days with bandmate flame for example, and easily get over 750k

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Odd cause I am ahead of him a bunch. This may be true with a couple of songs that he does have a really high score on but I know a good run of flames on a Jackpot can get you an extremely high score.

I would say i would experiment with this but I can't because Flames have sadly been nerfed. And FYI those few songs that have one guy with a really high score only have the one guy. If this was something so cheap and easy than everyone who have the high score. It obviously is not easy. And I am ahead of most who tried using Bandmate/Flame by using Jackpot/Flame.

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Originally Posted by zage1337

We all thought and agreed that jack/flame was the best combo but it was certainly not the case. You could get over a million on These Days with bandmate flame for example, and easily get over 750k

The scores you could get were astronomical with band/flame and that was likely the reason why HMX even nerfed flame notes. I doubt it was from just jack/flame.

There are even combos that outclass jack/flame and still do without the use of flames notes. I did not use flame notes on my 773k on BYOB nor on my 871k run on Guns of Summer.

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What you are saying makes sense. But what i was referring to was the majority. The majority of the songs use the Jackpot/Flame combo.

I can see your point with These Days. With Jackpot/Flame I am 20th on Xbox with 525k. That Mo fella is #1 with 1.151 million. For sure he used the Bandmate/Flame combo. I only wish I could try it right now but can't because of the Nerf. I never really played that song a lot though. If I did I am sure I could get to 4th using Jackpot/Flame which is 653k. Thats only 125k more than what I have. The top 3 have really high scores I could not beat using Jackpot/Flame.

But that means I still would beat many who were using Bandmate/Flame. My whole point is that all of this takes skill. The only songs that do not take skill are the songs with 3 tracks. If it has 4 I can compete with most using Jackpot/Flame. It all comes down to skill. They never had to nerf Flames. This wasn't a cheat. It all took skill.

Its not MasterMo's fault he is really good using Bandmate/Flame. It is no reason to Nerf the combo.

And that's cool, man I can dig it. If you can match my scores using jackpot/flame and I use bandmate/flame then obviously something is right in terms of balance because it means you can tackle a leaderboard in more than one way albeit both using flame notes.

I unofficially lost the recent scorehero league. I had a solid run with jackpot/flame and I lost out to roadrage/pinball/sync. I'm sure he was equally thrilled with his run if not more so. And that's cool too. Its working as intended.

If you think that one load out isn't going to be universally better on a certain type of song at a certain speed, with a certain amount of check points, at a certain length, which a certain note density/consistency. Then I hate to say it, but you living in a dream world.

Get Capcom and Arc System Works in here to make 5 re-iterations of the game. Because you know what, often the only thing they patch are infinite combos. They probably work a lot harder on balance, but once its in the wild, its out there.
If they want to rebalance, they make a new retail game and add on Turbo/Hyper/Super/EX/Ultimate.
And then there is a home to be had for whatever game you want to play.

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Originally Posted by MaximusDM

And that's cool, man I can dig it. If you can match my scores using jackpot/flame and I use bandmate/flame then obviously something is right in terms of balance because it means you can tackle a leaderboard in more than one way albeit both using flame notes.

I unofficially lost the recent scorehero league. I had a solid run with jackpot/flame and I lost out to roadrage/pinball/sync. I'm sure he was equally thrilled with his run if not more so. And that's cool too. Its working as intended.

If you think that one load out isn't going to be universally better on a certain type of song at a certain speed, with a certain amount of check points, at a certain length, which a certain note density/consistency. Then I hate to say it, but you living in a dream world.

Get Capcom and Arc System Works in here to make 5 re-iterations of the game. Because you know what, often the only thing they patch are infinite combos. They probably work a lot harder on balance, but once its in the wild, its out there.
If they want to rebalance, they make a new retail game and add on Turbo/Hyper/Super/EX/Ultimate.
And then there is a home to be had for whatever game you want to play.

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Great way to sum it up Maximus. I know I at least learned some stuff coming on here today.

What i learned was this game had more balance than I knew. Plenty of songs have leaderboards filled with people using different combos. Isn't that what the game intended?

And no matter what the combo skill was need to succeed with it. Overall it was a huge mistake to nerf the flames and I still cannot believe a group of developers so intelligent to make a game like this would make such a drastic illogical decision and not even announce it.

Let's hope the developers have also learned something and put back this change and save a game no one will play anymore. At the end of the day I think we can all agree with that.

With the exception of a few crazy band/flame scores, most of the top scores can be beaten to a wide variety of combos. Not so long ago I got 1st place on Message in the Bottle on PSN with Bottle Rocket as my overdrive powerup..and the score below me was jackpot/flame by a very good jack/flame player.

I like it when unconventional powerup combos can prove to be very effective on certain kinds of songs and allows variety and depth with the game. Bandmate/Flame was really overpowered and that could have been nerfed. I'd think reducing the bandmate time would have been a lot better than weakning the flame notes.

Overall I will be fine with the new changes HMX made if they just reset the leaderboards. Yes it would suck for me to lose all my scores(many which are 1st place) of the 100s of hours I logged into this game, but I'd rather compete against scores that are obtainable under the current rules. Right now I can't beat half of my own scores or get anywhere close right now after the change.

It would be better if they just revert the flame note nerf and make it worth 1,500 points again. I hope they will address this issue because clearly this was not a good decision with the negative reception towards this change. I welcome buffs though. A buff for Runaway Notes would be nice.