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Originally Posted by jibjqrkl

as I mentioned before, something like bringing out a new fixed version could have made it incompatible with old versions. Which would also be quite bad

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Only if they screwed up testing again. Software is my profession, I understand quite well the issues involved, and it would have been possible to make it work. I'm not asking for them to make a new version at this point, it is way too late, but it is just flat out wrong to say it wasn't possible to release a compatible version.

The right answer was either hold the release until it was better than Beta quality, or just not release it at all. Selling a defective product years after you knew it was defective seems wrong to me.

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Originally Posted by Dentata

Selling a defective product years after you knew it was defective seems wrong to me.

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True, although the same can be said of *buying* a product years after it's known to be defective ^^

You want a poorly-treated console? The PlayStation 2 never had any Rock Band downloadable content, all its cinematics were pre-rendered, there was no online multiplayer option, and hell, they never even got anything beyond Rock Band 2. They didn't even get all of the track packs! Wii users have it good compared to the PS2.

In the good ole days before the Internet, people used to receive updates to software via snail mail and formal requests to the company.

Some software updates were free. Some were minimal to cover disk media, and shipping.

I know HMX would never do this, but there was a time and a place in history... when updates were done this way. A phone call, a letter, a couple bucks... and updates!

(some even went so far as to include the printed pages to the manual that changed)

HMX do deserve some (much? most?) of the blame for RB3's initial bugginess. Yes, it's remarkable that they've released five or six patches for the game, but it's also remarkable (in an ungood way) that they even needed to. Besides the 1-lighter filter and the resurrections of BHS/DC, each patch was to address a crippling bug (Caprici di Diablo bug, Squier star bug, can't remember the others because it's been so long). I know there were time constraints that related to their being sold from MTV/Viacom, but that's not much of an excuse.

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Originally Posted by SheSaidSheSaid

HMX do deserve some (much? most?) of the blame for RB3's initial bugginess. Yes, it's remarkable that they've released five or six patches for the game, but it's also remarkable (in an ungood way) that they even needed to. Besides the 1-lighter filter and the resurrections of BHS/DC, each patch was to address a crippling bug (Caprici di Diablo bug, Squier star bug, can't remember the others because it's been so long). I know there were time constraints that related to their being sold from MTV/Viacom, but that's not much of an excuse.

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There was also that bug where the keyboard track let out a very loud buzz that should never had got through the QA process before release.

Those of us who play rock band loud were not too impressed with that one.

Can't is a word that is used alot concerning the HMX/Nintendo relationship. Can't patch? What about the COD game that did? When you brag about taking 2 years to develop RB3, some of that time should have been testing for bugs. When you find the bugs and can't figure out the fixes needed, you delay the release to make sure your customers are satisfied, or risk your reputation. Can't release free stuff? Remember the FREE Doors songs the Wii got a week after RB3 was out? Can't import RB or Lego because of relicensing issues? The songs had no issues with licensing on the other consoles and I'm sure there aren't seperate console specific contracts with the artists to not allow this. Can't do anything to fix the mess Wii bought? How about using the fixes that are now on the other versions, repressing the disc and having the customers who bought the bad pressing send in their disc to be replaced by the fixed one? And of course take the bad disc off the market. Kind of like a car recall or TSB. Or an exchange program to convert your Can't fix Wii into a fixed PS360 version disc, DLC and instrument setup. That would be doing right by the customer, who is KING.

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

Can't is a word that is used alot concerning the HMX/Nintendo relationship. Can't patch?

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Nope, not unless the game is built from the ground up with a capacity for it completely from the developer. Which is so crazy more complicated than I'm making it sound. It's a ridiculous amount of infrastructure designing that no one should have ever expected HMX to do (and it indeed is literally impossible now) on the console that has far and away the smallest userbase. The costs would have massively outweighed the gains, possibly even to HMX's ruin (I can't say for sure, since I don't have access to their books).

It will be different for the WiiU. But RB3 is still a Wii game, even if you play it on the WiiU.

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

What about the COD game that did?

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Wouldn't know, since I don't play any of those games, but I'm guessing it must have done what I described above. Those games have playerbases hundreds if not thousands of times larger than RB's. Different cost/benefit analysis.

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

When you brag about taking 2 years to develop RB3, some of that time should have been testing for bugs.

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Absolutely. But what is this "brag about taking 2 years to develop RB3" you're referring to?

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

When you find the bugs and can't figure out the fixes needed, you delay the release to make sure your customers are satisfied

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Absolutely. Like I said, the MTV sale is trotted out as an excuse, and it probably is the proximate cause, but I still think it's a pretty weak excuse.

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

or risk your reputation.

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I think they're doing okay.

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

Can't release free stuff?

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Generally speaking, no. Nintendo have a policy against it. Which makes

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

Remember the FREE Doors songs the Wii got a week after RB3 was out?

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that all the more confusing. How did that work, actually?

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

Can't import RB or Lego because of relicensing issues?

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There's probably some technical reasons, too.

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

The songs had no issues with licensing on the other consoles

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At the time Lego and RB1 exported (and the track packs, for that matter), no one had ever even considered exports for the Wii. They weren't a thing that existed. HMX blazed some serious trail here for exports to ever happen on the Wii. I'm not saying just be happy for what you have, but...well, you probably should be happy for what you have. It could have very easily been nothing.

I'd say it's probably more likely that those past games will come to the store as regular DLC, but the fact that that hasn't happened yet (you know if HMX could do it, they would in a heartbeat) means it doesn't look too likely either.

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

and I'm sure there aren't seperate console specific contracts with the artists to not allow this.

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Now you're just being ridiculous. Are you an entertainment lawyer? Do you have firsthand experience in the field of licensed music in video games? If not, you can't possibly know this. Neither can I. Neither can any of us with the possible exception of RBN authors.

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

Can't do anything to fix the mess Wii bought? How about using the fixes that are now on the other versions, repressing the disc and having the customers who bought the bad pressing send in their disc to be replaced by the fixed one?

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That takes significant development time and resources, and we know they're shifting resources away from RB. Just because fixes were developed on PS3 and Xbox doesn't mean they'd be simple to do on the Wii. It may even mean they're not possible (I don't know much about video game programming). Creating a new retail release is obviously a cost they're not going to shoulder, and even if they did it could cause even bigger problems in compatibility with the old one. Or would you personally guarantee that every single Wii user would track it down?

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Originally Posted by WIIBARON

And of course take the bad disc off the market. Kind of like a car recall or TSB. Or an exchange program to convert your Can't fix Wii into a fixed PS360 version disc, DLC and instrument setup. That would be doing right by the customer, who is KING.

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Now you're asking for free content from a company (Sony or MS) that you've had no dealings with. Please tell me you understand how silly this is and you were just being absurd.

Look, no one's happy that the Wii version of Rock Band is such a pile of crap, and HMX do have the lion's share of the blame for it. If you wanted to walk away, no one could say you were being petulant. But you can't just expect HMX to do prohibitively expensive things because you're angry at them.

as for the RB1 export, that required a patch that allowed you to take the songs off the disc.

and no patches.

CoD are the only games on the Wii that get patches, because Activision developed and maintains the entire patching framework for their games. It IS possible to develop games for the Wii in such a way that patching is allowed, but only if the developers do everything to handle it themselves. Heck, even Nintendo THEMSELVES couldn't properly patch the game-breaking bug for Zelda: Skyward Sword. They offered a special channel to fix saved games that were affected by the bug, but the glitch itself still affects any new saved games, so it's not Harmonix just getting the short end of the stick here.