You hear that Harmonix? That's me on my knees begging for you to get Rock Band's guitar to work with Guitar Hero 1,2 and 80's.

"Oh cool...AdamWill....you make videogames?"

no (I work for a Linux company, as it happens :>), I just have a bit of experience of this from mixing GuitarFreaks / Guitar Hero controllers. As I said, the fact that guitar games use arbitrary 'odd' control motions (holding down an axis or two permanently) to recognize controllers is fairly obvious by comparing the behaviour of the controllers in those two games, and has been more extensively looked into by people doing homebrew controllers (there's various discussions at bemanistyle.com , if you're interested).

to make it clear, I'm not trying to dump on HMX specifically here. As I wrote, the blame for this should properly be shared equally between HMX and RO (and, if you care, Bemani). I just disagree with HMX waving the 'open standards' line and trying to duck all responsibility. As I wrote, there *is* no meaningful standard for guitar game controller conventions. "The controller has to map controls that exist on the first-party controller for the console" is not a standard, just a simple technical limitation. *Of course* it does.

Here is what I don't get. Why wouldn't Harmonix do everything it can to patch this right now? They stand to make money by doing so. I have two friends who own GH3 for their PS3 right this second. They want to buy the Rock Band disc, but they're not interested in buying any extra peripherals to do so. So, if a patch comes through to make the guitars that they already own work with this game, they're gonna both spend $60 on Harmonix's game the next day.


See how that works? Why the hell wouldn't you guys try and make this happen ASAP? No, you might think a lot of people are just gonna go buy your guitars whenever the hell you get around to releasing them, but that is not the case. People who already own GH3 aren't always gonna want to spend another $100 to buy your game, plus a new guitar to play the game. They've already got a guitar that works great, and they're ready to buy your game. Make it happen, and they give you their money.

Sean, Two Words: Cop Out.

Either get the controllers working, now, or start shipping more guitars/drums to the store now.

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Originally Posted by Emowii

Here is what I don't get. Why wouldn't Harmonix do everything it can to patch this right now?

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I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.

What I don't understand is why they weren't working on this since the release of GH3 to have a patch ready *at release time*. You can't tell me no-one at HMX thought to buy a copy of GH3 and check out whether the guitar worked.

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Originally Posted by AdamWill

I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.

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Note there's nothing in that announcement that says "Yes, we're working on it. You'll have a functional guitar as soon as we make sure it works properly."

I'll be happy to give Harmonix my $60, but not on the 'hope' that everyone will work together and get a patch out, and not on the word that a patch is on the way. When the patch is here and works, I'll buy.

No, I'm not buying the bundle. No, I'm not buying it for the 360, though I was sorely tempted. It's the idea that we were ensured that the GH3 controller would in fact work with Rock Band, and then all of a sudden "Nope, not gonna work. Sorry. Oh, did we mention that the 360 GH3 controller DOES work with our game? Tough luck, chum. Can't return opened software. Thanks for the money, perhaps you can use the CD as a drink coaster until January, when we'll announce a shortage of guitars. Address all complaints to Red Octane."

I agree 100% with what AdamWill is saying. If it truly is an open standard, post a link to it on this board, then get to work on patching the game so that the Les Paul will work on Rock Band. Even if they didn't follow the standard, it was already at minimum hinted that the guitar would work, and you'll make more money anyway. I just don't understand companies like this, why do they want to both make their customer unhappy AND lose money. It makes me so irritated, I'm sure its not THAT difficult, and if it is, please explain why because I have a hard time believing that it is.

And before anyone gives me a "are you a programmer" line, yes I am in fact a software developer. I don't have a lot of experience with hardware but I have some and its all pretty simple really.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by hmxsean

If any controller or peripheral manufacturer wants their product to work with Rock Band, we promise to work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

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This is encouraging but it sounds like you are waiting for EA or Red Octane or whatever to call you and say "hey here is the code you need to make our controller work". It is certainly possible that the "Other Periperal Manufacturer" is to blame for this but if Harmix really cares about their customers they will take a much more proactive approach.

How about adopting a position more allong the lines of: "If any controller or peripheral manufacturer is willing to let their product work with Rock Band, we promise to pester them mercilessly so that we can work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

BTW does any one know if the PS3 RB controller works with Guitar Hero III?

It's always amazing how people can simplify a complex problem to justify their views.

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Harmonix would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they simple patched RB without RedOctane's permission/request. I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software. If Harmonix were just create a patch, they could be infringing on RedOctane's IP and get sued. In a situation like this, it's better to tread carefully. I'm sure Harmonix has spent the past two days trying to reach out to Activision and RedOctane to allow them to do this. My best advice is to start pressuring Activision/RedOctane to allow these two games to play nice.

And for those of you who keep pointing to the 360 Les Paul compatiblity, I again point out the common denominator of GH2 on the 360. Harmonix still owns the code to that game, which includes interfacing with the X-Plorer. Both GH3 and RB are based off this same standard. And remember, the 360 controller standard is not the same as the PS3 controller standard. That's comparing apples to oranges.

Of course, every time I try to throw some common sense into the fray, I just get ignored. So continue *****ing, I guess.

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Originally Posted by zanth99

Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.

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I couldn't agree more. I'm still awaiting for an official response about the standalone PS3 version and the no availability of guitar controllers besides the LP right now. Now the people who pre-ordered and bought the standalone version will surely have a nice blue-ray box decorating besides their PS3 until february where the actual RB guitars will be sold separately.