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Originally Posted by Insane3

Well I think I understand what you mean. Considering video games are the most flexible artistic (I hate this word) medium for interactive storytelling, it seems logical to expect the "best" videogames to be the ones that give the player the most agency in narrative interaction. When I say that, I'm thinking Minecraft, The Sims, Eve Online and even, to a lesser extent, The Elder Scrolls.

However, I don't think that an attribute of a medium implies a critical approach. Films and video art, for example, are the only medium (apart from videogames) that have both sound and visual. Nonetheless, silent films can still be equally "valuable" to the point that some important experimental filmmakers (especially in the 60's) chose to make completely silent films (such as Brakhage with Cat's Craddle or Dog Star Man).

I don't think good videogames have to give agency and freedom to the player. I think this is just one of the many valuable approaches to videogame making. Just like with any art form (again that word), we lose sense of what the medium does (and can do) when we try to define it into a frame (in this case: interactivity).

Furthermore, I think transcending a medium's definition is an amazing thing and, therefore, that this very discussion is a testimony that something amazing is happening with the videogame medium.



In the end, however, whether we agree about a definition of videogames doesn't really matters, what I'd really like to know is whether you appreciate "games" like Dys4ia.

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I agree. The definition isn't what's important; it's what we get out of the "game" that is. Personally, playing through Dys4ia was an emotional, touching experience for me - the mark of any great artistic (euugh, right?) work. Whether it's a video game or not is pretty irrelevant. However, the inner RPG nut in me thinks Dys4ia would be an even more impactful experience if refashioned into an open-ended, highly interactive work. Even if it was only a text-based "game." It's a shame that many game studios shy away from topics outside the usual good vs. evil spectrum.

RO: Out of curiosity, would any forum regulars consider The Gathering a progressive metal band?

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Originally Posted by Runesmith

RO: Out of curiosity, would any forum regulars consider The Gathering a progressive metal band?

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I think you could make that case... there are progressive underpinnings throughout their career. Anymore I think you'd have the tougher case classifying them as "metal" than "progressive" (Wiki calls them alternative rock anymore).

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Originally Posted by killer_roach

I think you could make that case... there are progressive underpinnings throughout their career. Anymore I think you'd have the tougher case classifying them as "metal" than "progressive" (Wiki calls them alternative rock anymore).

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Yeah. Past "Mandylion," and even on that release, their metal influence is harder to hear. To be honest, I think they fall more on the art-rock side of the progressive line. Still a wonderful band, though. This is the first time I've ever given them a serious listen.

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Originally Posted by Runesmith

I agree. The definition isn't what's important; it's what we get out of the "game" that is. Personally, playing through Dys4ia was an emotional, touching experience for me - the mark of any great artistic (euugh, right?) work. Whether it's a video game or not is pretty irrelevant. However, the inner RPG nut in me thinks Dys4ia would be an even more impactful experience if refashioned into an open-ended, highly interactive work. Even if it was only a text-based "game." It's a shame that many game studios shy away from topics outside the usual good vs. evil spectrum.

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Well... I think it would make a very different experience. Player freedom also means less agency for the author in terms of narrative. An open-ended game like Minecraft says something about a set of rules and the resulting conflicts (human vs nature), not about specific stories that take place inside the set of rules, because they are unpredictable. You can't really create an autobiographical narrative, like dys4ia is, if the story is open-ended.

The HoR Steam group never really took off, so I'll ask here... Anyone playing Planetside 2?

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Originally Posted by afterstasis

The HoR Steam group never really took off, so I'll ask here... Anyone playing Planetside 2?

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It's really fun but my computer can't really handle it so it's very frustrating.

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Originally Posted by afterstasis

The HoR Steam group never really took off, so I'll ask here... Anyone playing Planetside 2?

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That being said, you reminded me, now that I have a reliable Internet connection, that I need to finish downloading GW2...

I hate that I'll probably never get around to Guild Wars 2. The first game was the only MMORPG I've ever cared about.

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Originally Posted by afterstasis

I hate that I'll probably never get around to Guild Wars 2. The first game was the only MMORPG I've ever cared about.

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For me the sad thing is that I pre-ordered the deluxe edition of GW2 and am only now getting a chance to play it (the updater wouldn't work on the Internet connection I had the last three months).

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Originally Posted by Runesmith

RO: Out of curiosity, would any forum regulars consider The Gathering a progressive metal band?

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Their early metal stuff seemed more like Death/Doom than anything else (think My Dying Bride/Paradise Lost/early Anathema)

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Originally Posted by killer_roach

I think you could make that case... there are progressive underpinnings throughout their career. Anymore I think you'd have the tougher case classifying them as "metal" than "progressive" (Wiki calls them alternative rock anymore).

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Hard to classify The Gathering as metal after their 1st full album.

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Originally Posted by Runesmith

Yeah. Past "Mandylion," and even on that release, their metal influence is harder to hear. To be honest, I think they fall more on the art-rock side of the progressive line. Still a wonderful band, though. This is the first time I've ever given them a serious listen.

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Art-rock seems about right as far as describing their sound. At least they didn't turn into a Coldplay clone like Anathema did on their later works.