On Rock Band compatibility-

[hmxsean]

We’ve stated many times that Rock Band supports an open standard. What does that mean? It means that Rock Band supports the same system that drives a basic PS3 or Xbox 360 controller or peripheral.

If your controller or peripheral doesn’t work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn’t support the standard controller configuration. In other words, if a peripheral or controller doesn’t work with Rock Band, then the manufacturer has done something to prevent it from working with Rock Band by changing how the device “talks” to either a PS3 or Xbox 360.

If any controller or peripheral manufacturer wants their product to work with Rock Band, we promise to work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

We also want you to know that we are working to get stand-alone Rock Band Guitars, Drums and Microphones to the market as soon as possible. In addition to rounding out the band with a second guitar, Rock Band supports guitar vs. guitar, drum vs. drum and vocal vs. vocal modes.

We want you to enjoy Rock Band and have set up a superior customer service program. If you have any concerns about Rock Band, please visit: http://support.ea.com/rockband

[AdamWill]

As I wrote to you in a private message, Sean, this is tripe. To summarize, you cannot claim the standards set for general purpose controllers for a system as sufficient for guitar-based rhythm games, because *every* such game uses a special convention to recognize a compatible controller, and there is no agreed convention for which of the controls available on a standard controller should map to the fret buttons, which should map to the strum bar, which should map to the whammy bar etc. Given that there is no standard to define these conventions there *is* no sufficient 'open standard' for interoperable guitar controllers, and you cannot rely on that argument. All the companies which make guitar-based rhythm action games are equally to blame for *not* coming together to define a true open standard for the necessary conventions to create such a game and such a controller.

The full message I sent to Sean follows.

Sorry, but I disagree. Sure, there's an open standard so far as 'there are these ten button definitions and two axis definitions' (or whatever) and all controllers must use them. However, there is no 'open standard' that defines how these potential controls are actually mapped by a guitar-based rhythm action game.

anyone who's tried to use a Guitar Hero guitar on Guitar Freaks knows that it doesn't work right, because the two use different methods of signalling that a given controller is a guitar (I think GH controllers permanently hold down left and right while GF controllers just permanently hold down left, or something).

Saying that there is an 'open standard' for guitar controllers because they're all forced to work within the total space of buttons and axes that the console will actually recognize is meaningless. That's just an inherent technical limitation of the platform, it's not a 'standard'. A 'standard' would be a reference document which said that, for all compliant guitar-based rhythm action games, a given signal would be used to recognize a controller, a given axis or button combination or something would be used for the strum bar, a given set of buttons would count as the fret buttons.

If there was no special signal for a compatible controller, simple button associations were used for all controls, and all the games included the option to re-map buttons on the controller, there'd be no need for this, you could rely on being able to remap whatever game you were playing for the controller you had (as is the case with typical controllers and typical games) - but this is not how guitar games work, as you well know.

Given that there is no such standard, the reason controllers from the various games don't interchange reliably is simple - as there's no standard, there's nothing compelling each developer to use the same conventions (the same way of recognising a compatible controller, the same set of buttons for the frets and for strumming, etc). And - as is invariably the case where there's no standard to force interoperable behaviour - everyone winds up *not* using the same conventions.

As long as there is no standard then the 'blame' for this has to be split equally between all companies in the market, you can't get away with trying to blame someone else for it entirely. You can't sit there and say "well, they should have used the same conventions as us!" if you didn't make any attempt to codify those conventions into a standard. You're all in a position to sit down together and actually define a meaningful standard, you all didn't do so, and therefore you all should take the blame for not having done so.

The fact that you put misleading stickers on RB's box just exacerbates the portion of the blame you should take.

[vectorz]

Furthermore, what's the excuse for GH1 & 2 PS2 controllers not working? They also show up as Microphones instead of guitars, and they are fully open standard.

[Eman311]

removed for longness.

It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.

[Frepin]

sean, with all due respect, an answer straight out of the PR department isn't going to satisfy anyone. Harmonix's own marketing material was quite misleading in the case of the PS3, and the last thing anybody wants to hear is it's everybody elses fault but yours.

[StrangeDays]

Oh cool...AdamWill....you make videogames?

Sounds like Sean/HMX is trying to be fair?

[Se7enLawliet]

Who gives a damn who's to blame.

Okay, so clearly HMX is willing to patch RB so it'll run Octane's LP controller. But what about Octane? Have they said anything about willing to work with you guys?

[TheVoiceOfReason]

Sean,

Then please explain to us two things:

1) The rampant reports (some from Harmonix execs) stating that the GH3 controllers would work without making any distinction between PS3 and 360

and most importantly...

2) What is the purpose OFFICIALLY of the stand alone game that was released this week? Who can play it since there are no standalone controllers on the market?

PS> Your "superior" support system is raising Javascript errors all over the place....

[metalfenix]

It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.

And I also agree with you and Sean about the open standars on the controllers, and RO had 90% of the fault on the LP compatibility issue BUT, why there are standalone versions of the game for PS3? At least with PS3, there are no more guitar controllers other than the strat from RB and the Les Paul from GH 3, so we are supposed to play with what? the sixaxis? I would like to know an official statement about this.

I was about to buy a standalone version of the game and use the LP of my GH3, fortunately I managed to find the bucks and changed the preorder for the full bundle, but this matter still drives me mad.

[zanth99]

It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.

Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.