Is MasterMO real?

[blingdomepiece]

Even though I do agree that this is an exploit, it's extremely difficult to get used to using it effectively.

I'm assuming you haven't seen the 800K Buddy Holly video.

[zage1337]

I'm assuming you haven't seen the 800K Buddy Holly video.

That is a problem and should be fixed, but MasterMO does not do that, and I can't see anyone actually finding that fun are will likely break their controller to get a cheap leaderboard spot. There loss. What MasterMO does is actually play 2 tracks at once by actually hitting the notes and maintaining a streak for the majority of the time.

And not only that, but the exploit of being able to hit 2 adjacent lanes at once is almost necessary when you are using Jackpot to switch lanes. I know that using the timing window like that is unintentional but so is the backend timing window glitch that will break your jackpot despite not missing any notes. Every time I switch lanes while using jackpot I immediately hit the next note so I don't break a streak. So why should we have to deal with that, but not be allowed to hit notes a little early then later?

What MasterMO, MaximusDM, and pelemerengue does requires a lot of skill, practice and luck to pull effectively. It's nowhere even close to button mashing. I've done it myself on Cool for Cats today and got 667k but it's an extremely easy song and no way in hell can I do it at the level that MasterMO can or even at the level that MaximusDM can. I still prefer using Jackpot over Bandmate because I am a lot more use to it, but I am open to trying new techniques.

I say that you disable the analog sticks while playing on the standard control scheme(which is the only control scheme where you can button mash exploit the game) so you can't do what MagnetRP was doing to take down MasterMOs scores with no skill required. No one on standard even uses the analog sticks to hit notes. It's nearly impossible not to break a streak when doing that, so the only people who would use the analog sticks to hit notes are the ones exploiting the game, but please leave the timing window how it is, because the timing window unintentionally already hinders jackpot players unless they hit 2 adjacent notes at once on more dense songs. The only way to fix all this is sadly..make the timing window smaller, however that will hinder the enjoyment of the game more towards the average players than the elite players. So either leave the timing window or make the game far more difficult and less fun for everyone.

The problem isn't how MasterMO plays. It's how overpowered flame notes are, but what he is doing is no different than using jackpot/flame on dense note songs. Yes it gives you scores that are astronomical but it requires a lot of skill to do it so I think it's completely fair.

[pelemerengue]

This is another issue, but does ANYONE use analog sticks to change lanes?

I play on freakish using the D-Pad to change lanes, and the analog sticks drive me crazy because sometimes I'll hit them by accident when I'm lane juggling and it ruins my any streak I have going. I really wish you could disable them.

[zage1337]

People do use the analog sticks on freakish to hop over 2 lanes at once. The analog sticks should only be disabled on the control schemes that use them for hitting notes. It's impossible to hold a streak using them and yes I've actually tried. So get rid of them on standard and you wouldn't be able to do what Magnet did.

[agentnnc]

People do use the analog sticks on freakish to hop over 2 lanes at once. The analog sticks should only be disabled on the control schemes that use them for hitting notes. It's impossible to hold a streak using them and yes I've actually tried. So get rid of them on standard and you wouldn't be able to do what Magnet did.

I beg to differ. My thumbs can't always take the pattern of two quick notes on one side then one on the other at high speeds for extended periods of time. I've managed to master twitching the analog stick and not lose my streak. The analog sticks are fine as is and parts of the game should be disabled because some guy managed to find a way to legitimately beat the system.

[zage1337]

just wish there was a way to detect if someone is spamming rapid inputs for a period of time. Say if someone is wailing the analog sticks for say 5 seconds, then the game can immediately invalidate that run and it will not get posted on the leaderboards. Rock Band 3 does the exact same thing when it comes to pausing. You would have to send rapid inputs for a period of time that is only possible with the sticks and it would never happen if you were actually playing the song. Runs should also be invalidated if the game can detect if 2 controllers are being used on a song at the same time.

Things like these will stop people from cheesing the game using exploits like controllers and inputs, and if you want to post scores at an outrageous level, then you would actually have to develop the skill to properly use the technique that MasterMO uses and I see nothing wrong with that. His scores were only outrageously high because he was one of the very first to discover that technique and was able to master it better than anyone else. In the future though we would be seeing more outrageous scores like that legitimately. The exact same thing happened when people first discovered jackpot/flame and destroyed all the roadrage/blast and jackpot/blast scores. What MO is doing is no different.

[Diamaniacal]

That is a problem and should be fixed, but MasterMO does not do that, and I can't see anyone actually finding that fun are will likely break their controller to get a cheap leaderboard spot. There loss. What MasterMO does is actually play 2 tracks at once by actually hitting the notes and maintaining a streak for the majority of the time.

And not only that, but the exploit of being able to hit 2 adjacent lanes at once is almost necessary when you are using Jackpot to switch lanes. I know that using the timing window like that is unintentional but so is the backend timing window glitch that will break your jackpot despite not missing any notes. Every time I switch lanes while using jackpot I immediately hit the next note so I don't break a streak. So why should we have to deal with that, but not be allowed to hit notes a little early then later?

I did some testing and played on songs that I still needed to gold star, I used Road Rage/Flame, Jackpot/Flame and Bandmate/Flame. The results were mixed and song dependent, I had already used Bandmate/Flame, but it was not my top preference and still isn't my primary choice after heavier use, I am nowhere near the level as MasterMO either. After watching the Buddy Holly video, but there was really nothing wrong with it at all. After careful consideration I can not accept that this is an exploit and because of the mechanics of the game if you change lanes even after the note has passed the line if it is too early then it counts against you, either cancelling your jackpot or breaking blitz mode, so doing something to counter that is not and exploit UNLESS it is accepted that it is a BUG that the note that had just passed counts against you if you don't hit it.

What MasterMO, MaximusDM, and pelemerengue does requires a lot of skill, practice and luck to pull effectively. It's nowhere even close to button mashing. I've done it myself on Cool for Cats today and got 667k but it's an extremely easy song and no way in hell can I do it at the level that MasterMO can or even at the level that MaximusDM can. I still prefer using Jackpot over Bandmate because I am a lot more use to it, but I am open to trying new techniques.

Yes it indeed requires a lot of skill, and absolute perfect precision in control.
In fact, him being able to play 2 lanes does not in any way give him an unfair advantage, anyone can do that, provided they have the reflexes and some pretty mad skills. I don't even think that HMX considered this an issue, they didn't intend for people to not play on 2 lanes like that, they didn't think anyone possibly could.

As for simply 'button mashing' well on the HMX blitz page they had a tip from a fetured gamer whatever, it was a few paragraphs of simple strategy for different powerups, and it specifically said (not an exact quote if anyone throws a fit I'll dig up a link) [...The bonus for a perfect solo is much higher than maintaining Blitz so do not worry about hitting the buttons, unlike RB it does not hurt your multiplier...] This pretty much says to mash the buttons like crazy, and that is the best I can do on some of these solos, and I still don't get a perfect most of the time lol.

[Hairlooksgreat]

Not going to quote Diamaniacal post, but his arguments have swayed me to the "not an exploit side". I was on the fence and could see both sides. But I believe he's correct. If you're going to be penalized on Jackpot by switching lanes too early even though the note has clearly passed, then you should be rewarded if your ability allows you to hit the note to continue your streak. I also button mash on extremely difficult solos to at least get a 10k bonus instead of 5k bonus. I would not consider myself to be a great Blitzer but I do have many top 20's and can gold star pretty much any song at will.

[Epsilon82]

It does take a great deal of skill to use Band/Flame to full potential and I don't see how it's any less valid than Jackpot/Flame or Shockwave/Pinball and I've used all 3 combos to net 1st place scores.

I would quibble with the notion that it takes a great deal of skill to use Band/Flame to "full potential," because I think Magnet demonstrated that it doesn't. It's one thing to say that players like MasterMO and MaximusDM don't abuse it and still get high scores, and I have no reason to disagree with that. But players like that are human and are going to make mistakes that could be averted by button mashing. It seems as though the true "full potential" of Bandmate/Flame can either be achieved through enormous skill (as in the case of those players) or by button-mashing abusers. So it's not quite the case that it necessarily takes a great deal of skill, and that's a shame. You'd have to practice the unorthodox method of switching back and forth between the two lanes repeatedly while mashing both hit buttons, which is not exactly natural for most people, but I suspect anybody willing to put in a small amount of effort would be able to develop that basic muscle memory.

I agree that it still takes some skill to set up the conditions (you have to have overdrive built up and time a Bandmate activation on the correct lane), but the fact is that the way the game engine works, once that relatively simple process is executed, a moderately practiced button masher will be able to score just as well and probably better than a really skilled legitimate player like MasterMo, MaximusDM, or yourself.

[Epsilon82]

Not going to quote Diamaniacal post, but his arguments have swayed me to the "not an exploit side". I was on the fence and could see both sides. But I believe he's correct. If you're going to be penalized on Jackpot by switching lanes too early even though the note has clearly passed, then you should be rewarded if your ability allows you to hit the note to continue your streak. I also button mash on extremely difficult solos to at least get a 10k bonus instead of 5k bonus. I would not consider myself to be a great Blitzer but I do have many top 20's and can gold star pretty much any song at will.

I don't want to sound combative here, but I think the fact that Aaron came in here and said that this is an exploit pretty much puts to bed the argument as to whether it is, in fact, an exploit. Whether something is working as intended is not really a matter of our opinion, but that of the people who designed the game, and he's the only one in here who has access to those people. We can argue and discuss whether we think anything should be done or what exactly should be done, but it's pretty obvious that the capability of spamming to spawn infinite flame notes is an unintended side effect of mechanics that Aaron clearly described as being implemented in order to accommodate the widest variety of players without causing frustration. Whether the core mechanic (wide timing windows) that enables this exploit was a sound design decision given all the attendant factors is something we can debate. Whether the designers intended this behavior to be used in this fashion no longer is.

When you say, "If you're going to be penalized on Jackpot by switching lanes too early even though the note has clearly passed, then you should be rewarded if your ability allows you to hit the note to continue your streak," I would respectfully suggest that two wrongs don't make a right. While "your ability" could allow you to hit the note to continue your streak, the problem here is that no ability is necessarily required. The fact that the timing window is still open on passed notes is precisely what enables the button mashing strategy to work with Bandmate/Flame, and button mashing doesn't require skill (at least not of the kind we normally associate with rhythm games.)