All Event and "Bar Night" Organizers Only!!

[Calendyr]

Awesome posts guys, thank you for everyone participating!

I talked to the owner of the bar where I currently host the poker tournaments for my league. We came to a basic agreement about hosting Rock Band nights on Thursday nights. So my quest begins to put all the needed gear together and prepare advertizing.

Does anyone know if there is a place I can download material to create an add? I am talking about logos and graphics here. As anyone asked Harmonix if they have downloadable material to promote rock band nights in bars? I am thinking of putting a permanent vinyl banner in the bar with the info about the weekly event.

I have decided to go with the PS3 system because I already have one along with a Starpex Obsedian guitar, all the software and a bunch of DLC material for it. So it will save me a lot on the startup cost to use mine. I will definatelly make a backup of the hard drive. I have never done it but a friend told me it was really easy to do. The hard drive of the PS3 can also be changed to something bigger, he got a 500 Gb one. So if I ever fill the HD with songs there is a simple solution. Same applies if the HD dies on me at some point.

I believe I can be up and running within about 3 weeks. Advertizing will take the most time to prepare and distribute. The equipment should not be too long to aquire. I will start small and grow as the shows get more popular. I calculated that for about 2000$ I should be able to have a workable solution for the equipment. The items like an Ion Drum will come last. I too am worried about people damaging it and will wait until I have everything else to add this. For the guitars I think I will go with the Starpex I have, and get a Warbeast for the second guitar. I will use my Rock Band 1 guitar as a backup for now even though it is partly defective (overdrive doesn't work and sometimes it looses sync with the console for a sec or two). Silencers for drums seems like a must have. Have you guys ever have people break the drumming sticks? Should I get a spare set?

What do you guys suggest for lighting? I want something cheap to start with. Are the lighting frames expensive? Someone who posted a picture was using one. I can't afford professionnal lighting to start with, I know these lamps cost an arm and a leg. I was thinking of grabbing cheap flood lights at home depot or something. If I put lamps that are not too bright in them, I could have a few... say 4 or 5 of them light the stage and we could dim the light in the room a lot. Would you use color gels to change the lamp colors? Later on I will get lights that sync with the music and maybe strobe lights. Since I can't go with the stage kit, I know this will be a bit more expensive. I did not want to use a fog machine anyway.

[Calendyr]

For the website idea, I was planning to put one together as well. I already made a website for my poker league and this new site will be something similar. I want to put pictures, and maybe small videos of past events on it. It's always good for people to get a feel of how it's like when they visit you.

I was also thinking of hosting a friendly competition at the end of each evening. I am not sure how I will do this, but I guess depending on the number of paticipants I could adjust the setlist and everything. So my thinking right now is 4 hours of freeplay in between 8pm and midnight followed by a 1 or 2 hours friendly competition. If the competition part is popular, I would purchase medals for the winners and put together an inscription fee with the money going to the winning band. Since I have no idea of the interest in this, I will put the idea up as we go. I will definally be passing comment and ideas cards to participants so I get get feedback on what people want.

[LiquidKourage]

As far as lighting/effects go, I've never personally used them, but remember that I'm kind of a different animal here. Almost all my shows are a combination of Rock Band and karaoke, and I've always found lighting effect for karaoke to be kind of "tacky". So your experience might differ.

You can find logowork and images online using something like google. That's where we go whenever we update an ad. Supposedly Harmonix is beginning to actively sponsor Rock Band nights, but I haven't heard anything since my request for more information.

Which brings me to a topic I'd like up for discussion: rotation and fairness. Coming from my background, I feel that setting up a fair system for everyone to have equal opportunities to perform is very important. With karaoke, it's pretty simple. You set up "rounds" where each person who signs up has a chance to perform once. After everyone gets to perform, you start another round, keeping the same order and adding new people in as you go. With the multiplayer nature of Rock Band though, that method doesn't translate all that well. Anyone have any thoughts here?

[Calendyr]

I have looked at a bunch of videos and pictures of rock band night on the web and it looks like everyone is using bright lighting for the entire room. I was thinking more of doing very dimmed lighting for the room (almost black) and having only the stage illuminated. The only issue I foresee is people having a hard time writting their participation form at the tables... any thoughts on this?

As for rotation, here is the way I am planning to do it... if someone has a better idea or knowledge they wanna share, I am all ears (eyes?)...

I will have forms on all the tables. When we start the everning, I will ask everyone who wants to participate to give their form. I am planning to do a per table form. So if for exemple a table has 3 people and they all want to play, they fill in what instrument (or vocal) they want and the difficulty level they want for each. I will have a basic explanation on how to play and select difficulty levels as the first page of the song guide that will be on each table. The way I plan to do it is if there is 1 or 2 person at the table, they can play 1 song. If there are 3 or 4 they can play a 2 song set. If there are open positions for the song(s) I will ask if someone wants to fill the vacant spot in the band. Once every form has been played, I will start a second round for participation.

For the competition at the end of the evening. I will choose the songs for the setlist... setlist size will depend on how many groups will be participating. I will have a different form for the competition that will not ask for song name, only for group name with difficulty levels for each instruments. The score for each song will go on the form too, and I will compile the result as we go on a separate sheet.

I figure that with this method, for the free play we can have about 1 song per 10 mins or 2 songs per 15 mins depending on how quickly we can do the switching between bands. So that's about 16 participants per hour. If it's too slow, we would have to switch to a single song per group of 4 people obviously. Any comment of that would be very appeciated from people who have been doing this for a while.

[RockBandLosAngeles]

As for rotation, here is the way I am planning to do it... if someone has a better idea or knowledge they wanna share, I am all ears (eyes?)...

I will have forms on all the tables. When we start the everning, I will ask everyone who wants to participate to give their form. I am planning to do a per table form. So if for exemple a table has 3 people and they all want to play, they fill in what instrument (or vocal) they want and the difficulty level they want for each. I will have a basic explanation on how to play and select difficulty levels as the first page of the song guide that will be on each table. The way I plan to do it is if there is 1 or 2 person at the table, they can play 1 song. If there are 3 or 4 they can play a 2 song set. If there are open positions for the song(s) I will ask if someone wants to fill the vacant spot in the band. Once every form has been played, I will start a second round for participation.

You're kind of getting the cart ahead of the horse on this issue. You should be able to do 8 to 10 songs an hour, so that's 40 some people per hour, so unless you have 60 or more people who all want to play everyone who wants to play can play and often. Some people only sing, and they have to wait their turn, but most of your players will be on guitar or drums, and if they want to play a lot they usually do.
You're also assuming you will have die hard rock band players, where actually most of your crowd will have played the game never or a few times, so they will need a little instruction and will probably play less often than those who are serious.

[John-311]

I help do Rock Band Tuesdays every week at Ground Kontrol Classic Arcade in Portland, Oregon. We've been doing it since the day RB1 came out. Definitely interested in helping promote some sort of standard on rock band events. I personally think that when the full sized instruments come out, that will be a huge step towards public acceptance of rock band nights. I'm also waiting on someone to post the mod of using an external 360 controller with the stage kit. The stage kit unmodded isn't of much use in my opinion (as you always have to be adjusting the vocal track and selecting the song) but I think it will be a very impressive addition once the controller mod is done.

[GameRansoM]

While I'd hate to disturb the "Organizers Only!!" premise of this thread, I figured I'd step in to lend my expertise in answering a few questions.

Gabe (AKA "Death of the Arcade" AKA "YRDaddy") has been extremely busy providing his services through the weekend at a convention (including a 14-hour Saturday booking), and has been unable to respond.

Since I've been a part of DotA since its humble beginnings (before the company had a name, and crammed as we were in the back room of a small karaoke bar with one 42" flatpanel & a home stereo), I feel I'm as much a part of Death of the Arcade as one can be... without being paid or financially invested.

So. To the topic(s)...

I just acquired the ION kit this week and am going to put that monster together in my living room today, but there is no way I would take that kit, or my Omega pedal, into a bar with a bunch of drunks.

Our regular drummer brings his ION Rocker kit to basically every gig. I wouldn't worry too much about damaging it. Unlike the RB sets, which are -let's face it- just a toy, the IONs are a real electronic drum kit. They can certainly take a beating, as they're built to be beat on!

I have maybe two serious RB drummers in the 3 bars I do this in, and they get frustrated because they don't score as well as they do at home, but I think this is mostly due to the nature of the venue.

Our resident "drum machine" (the one with the IONs) regularly matches or beats his home scores when performing on stage.
Yeah, I'd say the atmosphere/venue has the greatest effect. Tell your "serious RB drummers" to suck it up and deal!
(After satisfying them with rigorous calibration trials, of course. )

The items like an Ion Drum will come last. I too am worried about people damaging it and will wait until I have everything else to add this.

Cost is certainly a prohibitive factor, but again... I wouldn't worry too much about damaging them. They really are built to take some punishment, and we've had little to no issues since including them on a regular basis.

Silencers for drums seems like a must have.

Really? Whyzat? Just crank the MUSIC!

Have you guys ever have people break the drumming sticks?

Yes. Once.

Should I get a spare set?

Probably a good idea.
Buy cheap ones and have your Serious Drummer(s) bring their own if they don't like them.

Why am I answering only drum-related queries so far?
I barely drum!

What do you guys suggest for lighting? I want something cheap to start with. Are the lighting frames expensive? Someone who posted a picture was using one. I can't afford professionnal lighting to start with, I know these lamps cost an arm and a leg. I was thinking of grabbing cheap flood lights at home depot or something. If I put lamps that are not too bright in them, I could have a few... say 4 or 5 of them light the stage and we could dim the light in the room a lot. Would you use color gels to change the lamp colors? Later on I will get lights that sync with the music and maybe strobe lights. Since I can't go with the stage kit, I know this will be a bit more expensive. I did not want to use a fog machine anyway.

Funny you should say that! (last part) Fog machine was one of the first "stage effects" DotA brought to bear!
I think that's Gabe's rig you're referring to above. It's not too expensive a setup, actually. While I'd prefer not to be quoted on an actual figure, I feel safe in assuring you Gabe seems to have retained all the usual appendages.
I'll let him speak further to cost issues... and let his wife speak further to the appendage issues.

Which brings me to a topic I'd like up for discussion: rotation and fairness. Coming from my background, I feel that setting up a fair system for everyone to have equal opportunities to perform is very important. With karaoke, it's pretty simple. You set up "rounds" where each person who signs up has a chance to perform once. After everyone gets to perform, you start another round, keeping the same order and adding new people in as you go. With the multiplayer nature of Rock Band though, that method doesn't translate all that well. Anyone have any thoughts here?

This can be tricky, at times.
I'm familiar with the "rounds" setup for karaoke, and I've kicked around ideas in my own mind on how to set up something similar.
However, all DotA events use a sign up sheet that - at times - requires a good bit of focus, attention, and... improvisation on the part of the host.
I'm interested in hearing other ideas, personally. I think Calendyr's "form per table" idea has some merit as far as regular rotations, but... it seems it'd require some rather formal environs to be effective. A lot of bars and such are too dynamic an environment to make such an idea work effectively.

[RockBandLosAngeles]

GeneRansom, great to hear from you. Particularly on the RB1 vs ION Drum kit debate. Here's the deal, the guitars are the guitars, even though some people prefer one RB or GH guitar over another, as long as they are working well there doesn't seem to be much of an issue. On the other hand, drums have the biggest disparity of equipment in the game. I just received my ION drumset this weekend, and after about 6 hours of playing time I can tell you this, what a f*$% difference! I could actually see myself walking offstage in frustration this week from having to play my RB1 drums! But I digress, and agree with your comment. While I would much rather play the ION drums, I'm just as happy to play RB1 drums in fun party situation, as long as they are set up to not slide and move around, like this setup http://www.toddwadefilms.com/drumkit2.jpg

We have many things to balance when doing this job, the desires and needs of our customers (the Rock Band Gamers) vs. the desires and needs of our employers (the bars). However you can find that middle ground within your money budget is probably the correct answer.

[YRDaddy]

Thanks for chiming in Gamer

DRUMS - As Gamer mentioned, or resident "house" drummer brings his IONs. I always bring my RB2 set with triple cymbols of course but they have hardly ever been used. They are more for a back up, just in case. Honestly, it doesn't matter. Most people (as someone mentioned) do not drum past Medium. I believe it is mostly about presentation for bar nights, which is why most people are awe struck by the IONs and cymbols additions (IONs or RB2).

CALIBRATION - I use multiple TV's and mutiple cables (component and composite). Of course the calibration will not be equal on all TV's. We calibrate to the drummers tv (using the above mentioned "expert house drummers ears and eyes"), everyone else just has to adjust! In my experience it is the drummers who can genuinly notice lag the most, and it is the guitar players who go way above their skill level that will complain about it the most! Again, if the presentation shock and awes them, they will learn to deal with the minor lag in order to get in the spot light again!

FAIRNESS / ROTATION - Our system of having 4 names to fill in per performance or song seems to work well. It allows individuals with no band to fill in for missing instruments for a performance and usually allows the singer to pick the song. It also mixes and matches all of the people who came to play which creates new friendships and a community to keep the business going. Every once in a while someone will pick an oddball song that know one knows or want to participate in. I have them change the song choice, in order to find someone who can sing it. I have been lucky in a sense that there is a group of 3 to 4 of us that can sing just about any song in the game between us, should duty call. If you are hosting, you control the list. Make sure you get new people a chance or two on stage no matter how long the wait is on the sign up sheet. Move them up! The people that are already signed up have probably played a few songs already and will not mind having to wait a little longer, but the new person that didn't get their turn will be pissed if the night ends and they didn't get their shot. Be a host 1st and a player 2nd, especially if you are being paid by the business. The 1st performance you sacrifice on the list should be your own.

LEGAL / HARMONIX - Read the back of your game case. It specifically states that you can not use the game for "pay to play". This is Harmonix legel disclaimer that will give them the right to comeback and sue your a** should they feel presure to do so. This is why, you are selling your time to the business. That being said, Harmonix has "expressed" their consent for us to do what we do by actually providing a section in the forums to promote these events. They are thrilled that we are promoting their game and actually giving people a hands on demo on a regular basis. This just equals more sales and exposure for them. HMXSean came to Denver and hung out with us back in November, even sending a shwag package out the following week. As long as you are presenting a "good" image of their product and not charging to play, I would not worry about about any legal problems with Harmonix.

Also, we just finished a 2 day rockfest at an Anime Convention. If any of you host are looking for an awesome venue, I highly suggest looking up Anime Cons in your State! Wow... is all I have to say. Later!

[Calendyr]

There are some excellent points being made in the last messages.

I did not think about the damn drums moving around, thank you for that picture, I need to make sure to have something similar to prevent the problem with the basic drums! I will be using a RB1 drumset to start with. I was saying that the silencers are a must because: They cost only 20$, they will help prevent damage to the drumpads and they will reduce the noise from hitting the pads. I am really loud when I drum, because I have no technique mostly, and I am sure a lot of people will be the same. So it seems like a good idea to me.

As for the rotation, when you say it's a dynamic environment... what do you mean? Are you talking about organized chaos? I am a very organized person, I will planning on having the event setup that way. But from your comment I get a feeling that might not work so well. If you could elaborate I would appreciate it a lot.

I also get a feeling from the comments that there might be more singers than other instruments players. I was expecting the exact opposite. Do you think the type of marketing you do might be affecting this? What I mean by that is that most gamers are not really interested in singing. In my experience everyone want to play the guitar or the base. I have friends who are drummers so that is not much of an issue although some still prefer the guitar because it's hard for them to drum the songs incorrectly (instead of playing them like they know it should be done, they have to follow the notes on the screen)... And we always end up having someone singing just to fill up the group. We do rotations on instruments because no one wants to sing all the time or be on the drums all the time. Maybe my experience is not the norm, I don't know. But I think that if marketing is aimed mostly at gamers, we will have many guitar players and if marketing is aimed at the Karaoke crowd, we will have mostly singers... what do you guys think?