All Event and "Bar Night" Organizers Only!!

[Zoologico]

Yeah, I think I can get into details here. I'm putting together this competition that we've named "Rock Band Reality", which signifies that it is a reality show-based contest revolving around Rock Band.

Well, I did two things I shouldn't have done (one of which I agree with, the other one I don't believe was "wrong" necessarily, but I digress). The logowork for our competition contained the official Rock Band logo, which I did not have consent to use (that's the part I agree with).
The contest has a website with the URL "Rockbandreality.com", which because it contains the expression "Rock Band", apparently is a violation of the trademark.

So in short, I got a cease and desist letter about a week ago from MTV asking that I take down the logo and give them possession of the domain name.

Until I get this all sorted out, I've had to temporarily take down the website and replace the home page with a disclaimer/explanation page. I'll probably also have to move the entire site to a new URL and slap disclaimer messages all over the place.

So, yeah. Definitely my bad. And I should have gotten some feedback from Harmonix before I did this, because now I have a lot more work ahead of me.

Side note: SArmstr0ng (the guy famous for those funny Youtube Guitar Hero videos) was at my show last night to shoot footage for a commercial for me! I'm STOKED!

I think this issue is going to come to a head with many folks then.

I'm with you each point.

Use of Rock Band logo without permission is clearly bad. Is there a way to get permission?

Use of Rock Band in the URL or in your name doesn't seem quite fair since it is such a common phrase.

We need some better contact with folks that can answer questions about this. Better yet some guidelines for that Start a Band. Rock Your Bar. promotion.

It seems like they want to support such efforts, but I don't want to build on shaky legal ground.

I am ready to print marketing materials and start selling but I am in a holding pattern right now until I get a response from those two email addresses HMXThrasher posted.

[LiquidKourage]

I'm sure that we could get consent to use official RB logos, images, etc. for promotional purposes as long as we made a "formal" request detailing the nature of our intentions to use them. The important thing to note is ASK FIRST.

I know there are plenty sites out there revolving around Rock Band that use the phrase "Rock Band" in their URL, presumably without issue, such as rockbandaide.com, myrockbandsongs.com, etc. Granted, those sites are informative as opposed to promotional, but I do feel that my URL name should be acceptable so long as I make it clear that I'm not officially associated with the owners of Rock Band. That seemed to be at the nexus of the cease-and-desist letter I got-- that my use of the logo and trademark "cause consumer confusion in the marketplace", which "may dilute the strength of" the logo and trademark in question.

In other words, they felt I was trying to pass my competition off as something officially linked to them, so in the future I'm going to be sure that all the appropriate "legalese" is handled.

The thing that sucks is, I might have kissed my potential membership in the bar nights program good-bye, if someone at the corporate level wants to "punish" me for my mistake. But, again, I take full accountability for what happened, and obviously want to do right by Harmonix in all this.

In other words, Harmonix, can I keep my URL pppppppplease?

[Zoologico]

I wonder if I should send my questions to legal@harmonixmusic.com.

Web site is ready to go now too.

I just hosted my first night last Saturday.
It went so well. I got tons of pic and movies and sales leads too.

Waiting on legal questions before I post them up.

[rancej]

I sure hope they will work something out with us. We are promoting their product for them free of charge. I can think of 20+ people that bought RB due to coming out and seeing it in action at the bar. There truly could be many more. I agree the best approach is permission. I am going to take my site down as well (I'm redoing it anyway), and send an email with layout, graphics etc and beg for their blessing. Surely a disclamer/copyright statement about their ownership and trademarks would suffice. Hey I, like I'll bet the rest of you, think the guys at Harmonix are awesome and want to do right by them. While some of it seems trivial, the legal department is just doing the job they are paid for and protecting their client.

[Jerrid_DOMN8R]

I actually have written several requests to use logo, etc. to Harmonix, all without any response.

First one was back in January:
the follow-up after that one, i tried to enlighten them a little more with dollars and cents - as I alone have been responsible for thousands of $ in sales (myself, and the people that buy this stuff because of my setup, and their experience with it)

"To whom it may concern:

My name is Jerrid, and I have started a Rock Band Karaoke company that
will book bars, clubs and private parties to play Rock Band 2 on the Xbox 360.
I would like to create marketing materials and a website to promote the business,
which in turn should help spawn future Rock Band game product sales through
user experiences at one of my events.

I am asking Harmonix's permission to use a small Rock Band 2 logo for my website,
on table top fliers and full page promo fliers.

And FYI - I have purchased RB1, RB2 (bundles) - The ION kit, I have over 250 DLC songs,
and been responsible for at least five other people purchasing a RB bundle and DLC.
I have also donated money to Scorehero.com - a recognized community of fans by Harmonix,
and help promote the game at show like the Southern Comfort Music Experience.

In summary, I feel like an independent sales representative for your company - I also met
a couple from your staff at the Video Game Awards in Las Vegas (2007) where my company
supplied ALL of the video screens that made up the Spike TV set.

I hope I can count on your permission.
Please reply with confirmation either way.

Thank you for your consideration,
Jerrid Thomas"

I have sent in a couple short ones, all without any sort of response.
So I just don't use it.

I would love for them to say, "sure, in face, here's some .EPS versions of it for you" - but can't count on that kind of personal service - not for mr. small time like myself.

My advice... just don't use it at all.

[rancej]

Sure looks like you tried everything you could to do the right thing by them. And you're right too...I'll bet most of us have spent thousands on their product..I know I have....all the dlc, ION's, 4 guitars, three durmsets before I sprang for the ION's. Maybe HMXThrasher will read this and get someone over in legal to read the darn email's and at least respond.

My fear here is their "Rock Your Bar" promotion is not to promote us but to promote the bar to do it themselves. I've seen a couple of them try it on their own and fail within a few weeks. I've even had them come out to my shows and ask what they did wrong. And my advice was to pay someone like me to run it. Both of these said they would never do RB in their bar again because they failed so miserably. All the while, looking around at our 30-50 people waiting to play. You just can't give a bar the equipment and say "have at it". It takes a professional setup and someone dedicated to do it right....like we're all committed to doing. Plus, it's not like any of us are making a lot of money...we have quite a few expenses to run this every week including spending our money on RB equipment and DLC.

[Zoologico]

It's funny that this would come up after so many posts about other guidance.
I do think this heavily promotes the Rock Band product and Harmonix is on the right track with the bar promotion. I think it behooves them to have a formal program and I have a suspicion that is what is being formed.

This will probably include certain level of commitment for people that are serious about doing this which looks like there are about half a dozen here. It will probably include some type of registration and singing of some sort of contract. Least of all it will include some kind of submission of materials before they are used. This would be one good way to run this. This would all depend on who much value the folks in charge see in this.

Cases in point. I had about 27 people come to my family and friends night. By the way, the event started at 6:00 PM. I thought since families were coming over with kids, they would like to arrive early and leave early. Hah! The last song was performed at 1:30 AM and we still had an audience of 12 people. What a night!

I had this one girl come over and I knew she liked the Offspring and the Cranberries so I made sure I had those on my song list. She didn't even want to try guitar when she first arrived. I worked on her to participate for about an hour in between songs. By the time she left she was recruiting people to play instruments so she could sing. She just sent me a FaceBook message telling me that she can't get the experience out of her head and she feels like buying Rock Band.

One family was a Guitar Hero family and they kept asking for Guitar Hero songs that are not in RB (some Linkin Park and Beat It) without looking at my song list (over 300 songs). Then they looked at the song list and said this is insane, I can't believe you have so many songs, I can't pick just one.

Yesterday night I got a call from them telling me they went out and bought the bundle on 360 and they wanted to know how to download more songs. I didn't have the heart to tell them they could use some of their GH stuff, so I just told them how to get DLC.

Another family was already a Rock Band family but did not know you could export RB1 songs and get more songs from DLC. They live in my neighborhood. I was at the pool with my daughter and all of a sudden I hear, "Miguel...Miguel...Miguel!!" I was like who the helck is screaming my name? It was the oldest son driving by and screaming out his car window, "Hey Miguel! I got more songs! I got more songs!" He was about 50 yards away screaming. I just waved and gave him a thumbs up as I chuckled.

I made quite the impression on some of these folks.

[rancej]

Great Stories. I re-thought my post above while I was in the shower. The formal program, as you stated above, is right on track. It helps Harmonix, us and the bars bring business. There will be many bars that go it alone and fail, some that have staff that can handle it and even more that recognize the value we add in hosting it for them..

[YRDaddy]

Here is my take on this issue.

This is a mutually beneficial partnership between us and Harmonix, however, legally Harmonix has a tight hold on our "marble sacks" and can swing the knife at any time . I think Harmonix and MTV recognizes the sales potential with their product placement in bars and business, hence the "Rock Your Bar" program. Where as Guitar Hero is going with a flood the store shelves with "the name" approach, Rock Band is trying to be more of an interactive, hands on approach. I think this approach is working well. I have not had 1 newbie walk away from a “bar night” saying that GH is the superior product. My best guess for a cash comparison, is that Harmonix and I have made about the same amount of money last year off of doing what I do. So please don’t fool yourselves by thinking that we are doing Harmonix a favor. The only way Harmonix and us can grow is to work together and I applaud them for recognizing that and allowing us to continue. As for the discretionary “cease and assist” notices, well as the notice mentioned, something about the presentation or name eluded to the possibility that the event was associated with Rock Band and Harmonix. Should some dramatic catastrophe occur, then Harmonix and MTV are in the hot seat for something an independent like us did. In other words, they had to do it, not that they probably wanted to. This might be a sort of “disclaimer” that we might want to start incorporating into our flyers, websites, etc… Something like “We (or insert company name here) are not associated with Harmonix or MTV in any way” … blah… blah… blah. But I imagine we will get more guidelines and rules once this “bar night” thing gets off the ground.

Final thought (great, now I’m Jerry Springer ). Buy cheap and pay cash because you never know when or if the rug will be pulled out from under us. If the worst should happen, you will have a house full of TV’s, Xbox full of DLC, and a bunch of pro audio equipment you can sell on craigslist. Later!

[Zoologico]

In other words, Harmonix, can I keep my URL pppppppplease?

What is your URL anyway?