Chart Discussion Thread

[JesusSilencio]

I don't mean to distract from other people's inquiries, but I need some help.

Now that I'm working on the other difficulties I'm having trouble with what to keep and what not to. Do the hard and medium charts in my first image look as if I'm going about it the right way?


Also, how would you suggest breaking down the bass in my second image?

Not a problem. I didn't mean to thread jack with my flam question.

With the first chart, the only changes I would suggest are for the medium chart. That first red I would move up to yellow, and that first yellow I would move up to blue (like how you have it in the hard chart). Also, those red notes (palm mutes?) at the end of the medium chart I would probably move to green, since that's how you have it in the Expert/Hard chart (unless there's a good reason why they're red there). Without hearing the song, I'm not sure about anything else, but by how you charted it on expert it looks good to me.

For the bass chart, without hearing it, I'm not really sure where the emphasis would be felt, but just by looking at the notes, this is how I would break it down:

Expert: |-YB-YBYR-YB-YBYR|-YB-YBYR-YB-YBYR|
Hard:   |--B--BYR--B--BYR|--B--BYR--B--BYR|
Medium: |--B--B-R--B--B-R|--B--B-R--B--B-R|
Easy:   |--B---Y---B---Y-|--B---Y---B---Y-|

You might wanna get someone else's opinion too though, as I'm not 100% familiar with how charts are broken down for lower difficulties.

[kuiosikle]

Thanks JS. Here's the last build of that song I auditioned if that helps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx9nYKbD6aA

I'm dealing with some hard drive failure on my authoring machine, but thankfully I have a backup and all I lost were the overdrive, unison bonuses, and drum fills on that song (ugh). But while I'm figuring that out, and waiting on a 360 repair, I'd appreciate any other opinions

[JesusSilencio]

Ok, yeah, having the actual song helps.

With the guitar, the only additional thing I would say is for the medium chart, during the 16th note gallops, I would just chart them as straight quarter notes, as that beat on the + of 4 isn't really emphasized at all. Come to think of it, it might make sense to make them sustains too. The only problem is it may be a little too simple for a medium chart, but it feels a lot more natural that way (at least to me).

With the bass track, one thing is the rhythm is slightly off at the beginning. You fix it once it goes to OBY, it looks like you copy/pasted it one 16th note too late for the first 3 measures or so.

After hearing the track (and knowing the correct rhythm), here's what I would probably chart the bass as:

Expert: |YB-YBYR-YB-YBYR-|YB-YBYR-YB-YBYR-|
Hard:   |YB-YB-R-YB-YB-R-|YB-YB-R-YB-YB-R-|
Medium: |Y--Y--R-Y--Y--R-|Y--Y--R-Y--Y--R-|
Easy:   |R--R----R--R----|R--R----R--R----|

[TheGlassIdentityCrisis]

Hmm... interesting. One problem I see with doing it that way is it makes you play a certain sticking for the flam (in your case, a left handed flam). I know that, personally, I almost always play right handed flams if given the choice, and making it so I have to play it left handed would sorta screw me up. Honestly, I would have to play a few songs with them charted like that to figure out whether they feel natural or not.

Also, there's nothing stopping you from playing the flams as actual flams the way HMX has been charting it, as long you play them reasonably closed. I'll almost always play flams if I know that that's what they are.

Very true, if you are a lefty, you would be kind of screwed. But If you are a lefty, you are kind of screwed. My tester friends freak out on me when they see it in autoplay, but always nail it when it comes. Being that the notes are so close to each other, I don't think the game would ever catch you on it, but I think that many will find it the mentality of musicians like myself that are novice to intermediate level rock band players, to make the experience (on the expert level) to "feel" as close as we can make it. I decided to learn how to program our band's songs myself to try and capture the feel of it more than anything. I think that if players open themselves to that mindset, they may find that there are some pretty interesting ideas that flow from the artist point of view. I use a group of friends that are hard core players and get together all the time and play to test on. So far they are quick to point out that "that isn't the way it has always been done" but admit that they dig some of the charts after they play them a couple times. It's just really a unique concept for a band to be in a video game and my band loves the opportunity.

[trg007]

FYI - the authoring procedure for flams is to place the two notes in the same place (as in a chord on guitar). Don't author one note later than the other. I guarantee you you'll be forced to change that in Playtest if you do it that way.

http://creators.rockband.com/spec/Drum_Authoring

We author snare flams as a simultaneous hit on red and yellow in order to show the player that both hands should be used.

[TheGlassIdentityCrisis]

FYI - the authoring procedure for flams is to place the two notes in the same place (as in a chord on guitar). Don't author one note later than the other. I guarantee you you'll be forced to change that in Playtest if you do it that way.

http://creators.rockband.com/spec/Drum_Authoring

Yeah. I see what it says. It says "We" Author it this way. At no time does Harmonix say "It has to be this way or it's wrong". I will provide you with a another quote that I use at work all of the time. "Just because we have "always" done it this way, doesn't make it right."

It is this general attitude that stunts creativity. And the exact point I tried to point out in my post. I think that many musicians share the idea that it would be cool for the songs to "feel" as realistic as possible. So if the community forces a change to pass the song on, then so be it. It will be dissapointing to see the community unable to embrace new ideas that come straight from the musicians that penned the songs.

[Charron]

Quick question. I have a disco beat. I know what to do with disco beats. But I have a disco beat on the toms. And yes, toms plural (though it still goes back to snare for the beat). I'm not sure if I should flip it or leave it alone here. (Based on Lucky Denver Mint's solo, I'm guessing leave it alone, but that never went on the snare so I'm not positive.)

[MarsPhoenix]

Don't flip it. It's rare (maybe even unheard of) for toms to be to the left of the snare in real life drumming.

[JesusSilencio]

Yeah. I see what it says. It says "We" Author it this way. At no time does Harmonix say "It has to be this way or it's wrong". I will provide you with a another quote that I use at work all of the time. "Just because we have "always" done it this way, doesn't make it right."

It is this general attitude that stunts creativity. And the exact point I tried to point out in my post. I think that many musicians share the idea that it would be cool for the songs to "feel" as realistic as possible. So if the community forces a change to pass the song on, then so be it. It will be dissapointing to see the community unable to embrace new ideas that come straight from the musicians that penned the songs.

I agree that we should question HMX's standards occasionally, but I do think they do it the way they do for good reason. It's more straight forward to chart the way they do it, and easier to read.

Don't flip it. It's rare (maybe even unheard of) for toms to be to the left of the snare in real life drumming.

Drummers can have some toms to the left side of the snare, but it's typically only on larger kits, and only the first few toms.

Answering Charron's question, I would probably leave the snare on the left, but I would have to hear it to see what felt natural. It's possible the drummer has a high tom to the left of the snare and uses it right before/after the snare hit with his left hand, in which case charting snare to yellow could make sense. Are you sure that the drummers is playing straight 16th's with his hands and not using the bass drum to transition to the snare though? I'm thinking something along these lines:

OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
caps

[Charron]

Drummers can have some toms to the left side of the snare, but it's typically only on larger kits, and only the first few toms.

Answering Charron's question, I would probably leave the snare on the left, but I would have to hear it to see what felt natural. It's possible the drummer has a high tom to the left of the snare and uses it right before/after the snare hit with his left hand, in which case charting snare to yellow could make sense. Are you sure that the drummers is playing straight 16th's with his hands and not using the bass drum to transition to the snare though? I'm thinking something along these lines:

I'm positive. The bass drum stem is separate from the kit and snare ones, and it doesn't kick in until later. He's either got his snare square between his high and mid toms or he's leading with his left.

As for the sound, it does seem to resemble Lucky Denver Mint at first, then it moves to a deeper tom (but not quite floor tom deep). But it's a consistent sound so I'm not shuffling across the toms. There is some cymbal work but I still have green for that, not worried there.