vVv Adrenaline Reviews RBN Songs

[Catch-22]

Thanks for the professional review of Mordecai, HellAshes.

I've got to agree with that. As a playtester I was a little offended by that review and I imagine RGS is pretty annoyed right now.

@ vVv
If you don't think we're doing a good job get off your ass and get an XNA membership. Until then don't criticize the playtesters because quite frankly I don't think you could do a better job then most of the people there.

[dman2309]

To be honest, whatever these guys say is not really gonna influence my purchases whatsoever. I think if you like the song, you like the song and will purchase it no matter what others' opinions of the songs are. Also, to me, the songs being reviewed are still rather high-profile or should I say more popular than some of the other songs in the RBN.

[vVvGaming]

I meant to mention this before, but we will focus on lesser known songs from now on for RBN. We originally weren't going to do Mordecai since it's very well known, but we all felt we should voice our opinions about the song. We decided on Complexity of Light and Africa long before they were really popular, but most of our song choices will be of relatively unknown songs.

There is a glitch in the system(there's an actual HMX song this happened to as well, just can't remember the name of it), and it was noted(the hammer on issue) in the testing.

Multiple times in fact. It is however, something that no one can figure out how to fix, so it was either leave it in, or not release the song.

IIRC.

This is true since both Bodhisattva (as mentioned before) and Ramblin' Man (the O HOPO after O sustain) have this problem. I'm just confused as to how this is unfixable since HMX has said on more than one occasion that they can now chart any note as either a HOPO or strum note. Seems weird, but I did mention that this doesn't affect the gameplay at all since you still have to strum it and it's impossible to hammer-on.

Thanks for the professional review of Mordecai, HellAshes.

I've got to agree with that. As a playtester I was a little offended by that review and I imagine RGS is pretty annoyed right now.

Well to start, I'm sure you know that not everyone is going to like every single song that you guys release, and we definitely don't start writing a review with the intention of pissing anybody off. Second of all, we're giving our opinions on what we think of a song. Think about Ebert and Roeper and their movie reviews. If they review a movie they think is great, then they'll say it's great. If they think it's okay, but nothing special, then that's what they'll say. And yes, if they think that a movie completely sucks, then that's exactly what they're going to say, and they've done that on numerous occasions. Many people will be pissed off at both the review and the reviewers, ESPECIALLY people that worked so long and put a lot of effort into the movie. But should the reviewers simply lie and say that the movie was good so everyone would be happy? If I had said this about a different song, not one that you had personally playtested or charted, you may think that the review was still a little harsh, but you would realize that this is what reviewers are supposed to do. If we were to sugarcoat our reviews, what kind of reviewers would we be? We wouldn't be reviewers at all since we're just telling people what they want to hear.

And if you think that my and HellAshes' reviews used language that you think detracted from the review (and made it unprofessional), think about Yahtzee Croshaw and Zero Punctuation. Watch his review of Heavy Rain. He's very vulgar in his reviews, and I think he's 100% wrong about some of the stuff he says. However, this is just his opinion on the subject, and I do see that he brings up some very good points. Even if you disagree with a lot of what he says, I'm sure you see his side, and I'm willing to bet the makers of the game would be incredibly pissed off with this review. But again, it's just his opinion.

As for some occasional bad language, it's simply for emphasis. Instead of the reviews we posted, imagine if HellAshes or I had said "I do not like this song. It is really, really, really bad. It is not fun. Do not buy it." Now, is that a good review for any song? No. Like we say at the beginning of all of our reviews, "vVv Adrenaline will release weekly reviews letting YOU know which songs are fun to play, which ones are great to listen to, and which ones you should avoid at all costs." These are just the opinions of four people, and everyong needs to understand that not all songs, no matter how great they are, will be fun in RB. I like to use my favorite song of all time, Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen, as an example. This has been both my favorite song and band for as long as I can remember, and I will really be surprised if I ever find a song that's better. That being said, this would probably be one of the most boring songs ever if it were in RB. If I reviewed Bohemian Rhapsody in RB (assuming that only guitar was charted for guitar), I would honestly tear it apart because it would be awful. People would read my review and most would probably be pissed because they would say that the song is a masterpiece, that we're idiots for saying such terrible things about such an amazing song by an amazing band, etc.

But that's the thing. How FUN a song is really doesn't have a whole lot to do with how great the song is musically. Sin Wagon is one of my favorite songs to play in the entire RB series, yet I completely despise country. Way back in GH2, my favorite song by FAR was Institutionalized, but the song was absolute crap IMO. On the other hand, songs like 18 and Life, Under Pressure, and Ring of Fire are fantastic songs musically, but they're terrible to have in a guitar game (speaking strictly about guitar here, Under Pressure is obviously great on vocals). All four of us agree 100% that Mordecai is an absolutely amazing song to listen to. Between the Buried and Me is one of HA's favorite bands, and I'm personally a big fan as well, and Mordecai is both of our favorite song by them, so don't think we have it out for the song or anything like that.

And finally, as for RGS being pissed off about this one review, I think you should go back to Episode #1 where we reviewed Push Push (Lady Lightning) and Drunken Lullabies, both of which were charted by RGS and both of which received pretty positive reviews. Not only that, but another song we reviewed in Episode #2 was Complexity of Light, yet another song charted by RGS. Of the six songs we've released reviews for so far, half of them have been praising songs of RGS. Although I'm sure they'd prefer to receive positive reviews on all of their songs, I highly doubt they're going to be pissed that four gamers don't like one of the 41 songs that they currently have released on RBN (and only on two of the four instruments).

@ vVv
If you don't think we're doing a good job get off your ass and get an XNA membership. Until then don't criticize the playtesters because quite frankly I don't think you could do a better job then most of the people there.

First off, that's like saying that sports commentators shouldn't criticize baseball players unless they can hit a baseball farther. I definitely don't have the time to do something like this in addition to my normal life (which is a big reason why this review was released a little late). I also do not have an extra $99 just lying around to spend on something that I probably won't use too often. If I had both the money and the time , I would love to be a playtester and give my opinions of songs before they're released, but this is a moot point since I have neither.

And you may not know this, but HellAshes is a charter for RhythmAuthors and has been charting his own songs, on all instruments, in his spare time for many years now. He's also released some of the most fun songs that I have ever played, so I personally respect his opinion on charts since he seems to know them pretty well. Not everyone has to like what he says, but I usually tend to listen to experts when they talk about a subject they know best. Not that HA is necessarily an expert, but most people would admit that he usually knows what he's talking about when it comes to rhythm games.

To be honest, whatever these guys say is not really gonna influence my purchases whatsoever. I think if you like the song, you like the song and will purchase it no matter what others' opinions of the songs are. Also, to me, the songs being reviewed are still rather high-profile or should I say more popular than some of the other songs in the RBN.

And I would absolutely agree with this statement. Don't let us stop you from doing something. I'd compare this to my second favorite Wii game of all time, Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World. Look at the reviews for this game. They're pretty awful for the most part. I read these reviews and talked to other people who had played it, but the consensus was that it wasn't a good game. Did I decide not to buy the game since some people didn't like it? No, I bought the game and played the crap out of it, loving every second of it, and still wanted more after finishing it. We're simply sharing our opinions about three songs. We're just telling everyone what songs we think are fun, which are great songs to listen to, and which songs we can't stand. For those of you on the fence about a song, our reviews could help you decide, or you can read them and completely disregard what we say. It doesn't matter, we're simply trying to help people not waste their money.



Although we all may disagree, Adrenaline truly does appreciate all comments an we do listen to everything you guys have to say. Even if you have something to say that you don't think we'll enjoy reading, but let us know what you're thinking.

[S1ckH4nds]

Thanks for the paragraphs of defenses, but the fact remains, reviews along the lines of "I honestly haven’t got a clue how this piece of s*** managed to get through play testing the way it is" and "I’d stay the f*** away from it if I were you" reeks of unprofessionalism. It's not so much "this song is not fun to play", it's the attitude that "this song is unfun to play because it's charted badly" that is coming off like a slap in the face.

I also was unaware that HellAshes was a charter for RhythmAuthors. It's kind of weird, considering I never saw him post on Creators even once. That's the real irony, I suppose -- if he had issues with the charting, he had more than enough chance to voice his concerns in the playtesting and peer review process. Someone with the experience he has would be invaluable in the Creators club if he contributed to the process.

Keep in mind I had nothing to do with the drum chart, but like the rest of the work my fellow RGS authors put out, I stand behind it. Our current senior drum author, GurnKiller, posted his defense of the chart on Scorehero when another anonymous forumgoer decided to wholeheartedly trash it as if it kicked his puppy, and I fully support his reasoning for the reason the chart turned out the way it did.

That being said, I'm done discussing this. Don't get me wrong, it's not as if I don't appreciate the reviews for the other songs you've mentioned, but try to think before you speak instead of intentionally choosing words intended to incite the next time you feel like giving a negative review. And for gods sake, HA, please be a bit more active in the process. If you're part of the RBN, then make your voice heard BEFORE the song ships, instead of after.

[HellAshes]

Ok, I'll be throwing my thoughts into the ring.

I've had trouble logging into the creators website for about 2 months now. I have no idea what the problems are, but I've been trying to sort it out and still nothing. When I have the ability to post and such on the creators website, I will do so frequently, as everyone at Rhythm Authors looks for such activity in all of the authors and QA.

Let's not forget, I have fun with the reviews. I try to be professional, but I want to bring entertainment as well. I won't apologize for my review, as it's just my opinion. Sure, I could have been less harsh towards it, but again, I'm trying to write something that people will read. Throwing up a review that just states what I don't like about the chart and why it's not fun and bla bla bla and etc...no one will read that. It's facts with no color or flavor. It's bland. It's boring. I put what I believe most people would think of the song when they start playing it. Being greeted by a pattern that's frustratingly hard followed by fail followed by rage quit.

I've read Gurnkiller's defense on the chart, and yes, there wasn't much they could do. Difficulty still could have been reduced, such as half the bass hits being removed. Nearly every alternate blast section in all RB songs are charted with double bass hits so that route could have been taken for this song due to it's unorthodox pattern. There's always a balance between accuracy and fun. As time goes on, more and more charters tend to slide towards the side of accuracy to much, in my opinion. You never see a chart like Jordan anymore. Imagine if it was charted today note for note. It wouldn't have the tapping pattern that's learn-able and fun to play, and would most likely not be fun at all.

[vVvGaming]

Episode #3 is live!!


Episode #3 - 4/12/10

songs reviewed this episode:
Foreword - Watch It All Go Down
Texas in July - Hook, Line, and Sinner
Stewart - Dance With Me

[A New Pyro Fool]

I enjoyed the non-offensive reviews this time around. Officially picking up none of the tracks, although Watch it All Go Down is going on to my iPod.

[overdriveguitarman]

yay! You did lesser known songs!

[weeyoo]

This is a question for the OP -

I've recently been in contact with the manager of Victory Records about more BTBAM on RBN, and he told me he was negotiating Obfuscation with an authoring company.

Are you the authoring company that he is talking about? If so, I would imagine the chart (if the song gets confirmed) would be as accurate as HellAshes chart.

[vVvGaming]

This is a question for the OP -

I've recently been in contact with the manager of Victory Records about more BTBAM on RBN, and he told me he was negotiating Obfuscation with an authoring company.

Are you the authoring company that he is talking about? If so, I would imagine the chart (if the song gets confirmed) would be as accurate as HellAshes chart.

Well if you're talking about vVv Gaming, we're a worldwide professional gaming organization, not a Rock Band authoring company. If you're talking about Rhythm Authors, which HellAshes charts songs for, I know that he had to sign an NDA not to discuss any of the songs that they are currently working on until it's in playtesting or gets approved. So I have no idea which company they are in touch with, but my guess would be Rock Gamer Studio since they also did Mordecai.

And if the chart is similar to HellAshes' chart, than it should be really fun. Unfortunately, I foresee the same problems (HOPOs in the middle of strumming sections when the should be strum notes) happening in Obfuscation as did with Mordecai. Hopefully they prove my wrong because I'm very excited about this getting in RBN.