The All New All Different Top 25 XBOX Live downloads of all time.

[Cipher_Peon]

It definitely would be sweet if we have some sort of form to see how much it cost to license, chart, etc a song so we can compare it to the sales and see if it did turn in a profit, and which ones made the most profit and least, etc. I've been curious about it for a while. XP

[GNFfhqwhgads]

Ha! That's certainly true. Perhaps one should say "fell short of expectations"?

Well, now we've got to ask. What WERE the expectations of a pack of Bob Marley deep cuts being released after his Greatest Hits, and what were the expectations of a double-album that only had two singles?

It definitely would be sweet if we have some sort of form to see how much it cost to license, chart, etc a song so we can compare it to the sales and see if it did turn in a profit, and which ones made the most profit and least, etc. I've been curious about it for a while. XP

But we don't have the sales. We have comparisons. Don't Stop Believing outsold Metallica Pack 01, is it by one unit or half a million units? Even if we find out the DIFFERENCES, we still don't have a starting point to work from, so even saying, "Don't Stop Believing has sold 300 more units than Metallica 01," just raises the question 'what is either of them at on their own?' that we need to get into revenue.

[Cipher_Peon]

I was saying that it would be nice if that starting point would be known or even more clear to us. Just so we can know what did well and maybe even what to expect more from in the future. Even if "Don't Stop Believing" is one of our bestsellers, we can't really say that it made a profit since we don't have the starting point to go on. Of course, if there is proof for it I would humbly eat my own words and choose a different example.

But of course, this is getting into the realm of speculation and in this thread which is based on statistics, maybe this isn't the right direction this conversation should be headed to... Because at the end of the day, all our speculation isn't going to get songs to earn a profit. Just saying.

[jeronemitchell]

Well, now we've got to ask. What WERE the expectations of a pack of Bob Marley deep cuts being released after his Greatest Hits, and what were the expectations of a double-album that only had two singles?

I see this is going to be fun.

One cannot normally say "X outsold Y" in a fair manner based solely on rankings. If a pack has been out longer, one would expect it to sell more than one that hasn't been around as long. As such, one definitive "X has outsold Y" look without having exact numbers and while factoring in comparative time is to look at what other packs it has beaten. This way, we know pack X had to have sold more PER WEEK than track Y in order to have surpassed it in the list.

So... perhaps we can say that this is a measure of comparative sales that reduces the bias based on time. Expectations aside, a LOT of packs sold more than Bob Marley 02 in less time. That is NOT a good look. Same thing for David Bowie Pack 02.

[GNFfhqwhgads]

I was saying that it would be nice if that starting point would be known or even more clear to us.

It wouldn't be. Public knowledge of company bills doesn't go over well. Harmonix would be ridiculed by fans("Waaah, why didn't you spend $23,000 on a band I LIKE?") and shunned by the rights-owners that obviously don't want their dealings out there.

Even if "Don't Stop Believing" is one of our bestsellers, we can't really say that it made a profit since we don't have the starting point to go on.

Actually, this one IS possible. Back in 2008, Game Informer said Juke Box Hero* exceeded one million downloads. Even if it never sold again, that puts Don't Stop Believing at 1,000,002 units sold. Which is just over $2 million in revenue. Slice that in half(half goes to Microsoft on all downloads), and we've still got $1 million to split between the rightsholders and Harmonix(with Harmonix taking at least 51%). Let's assume they went with 51%, since it's the safest assumption, as we can't overshoot with it. That's over $500,000 in Harmonix's pocket(minus employee pay revolving around work on the song, which doesn't amount to much of a number that big). Now, if THAT wasn't profitable for Harmonix, that means they spent over $500,000 licensing ONE song, when we've learned that to even work on The Beatles: Rock Band, they had to fork over $5 million up front. That's for THE BEATLES, who are easily bigger, and for song rights to at least what was on the disc, which was 45 songs. Harmonix wouldn't spend $500,000 on one song from a big band, when getting 45 songs from the BIGGEST band was(on a song-to-song basis) cheaper.

But of course, this is getting into the realm of speculation and in this thread which is based on statistics

This thread isn't based on statistics. We're simply seeing how tall some things are compared to others.

[jeronemitchell]

This thread isn't based on statistics. We're simply seeing how tall some things are compared to others.

I love this quote as well. Bob Marley, David Bowie, the Clash, and Billy Joel all came up "short".

I'll be here all week! Tip your waitstaff!

[SirDavidTLynch]

Wasn't "Piano Man" the best-selling post-RB3 track for a few months?

[Cipher_Peon]

It wouldn't be. Public knowledge of company bills doesn't go over well. Harmonix would be ridiculed by fans("Waaah, why didn't you spend $23,000 on a band I LIKE?") and shunned by the rights-owners that obviously don't want their dealings out there.

Actually, this one IS possible. Back in 2008, Game Informer said Juke Box Hero* exceeded one million downloads. Even if it never sold again, that puts Don't Stop Believing at 1,000,002 units sold. Which is just over $2 million in revenue. Slice that in half(half goes to Microsoft on all downloads), and we've still got $1 million to split between the rightsholders and Harmonix(with Harmonix taking at least 51%). Let's assume they went with 51%, since it's the safest assumption, as we can't overshoot with it. That's over $500,000 in Harmonix's pocket(minus employee pay revolving around work on the song, which doesn't amount to much of a number that big). Now, if THAT wasn't profitable for Harmonix, that means they spent over $500,000 licensing ONE song, when we've learned that to even work on The Beatles: Rock Band, they had to fork over $5 million up front. That's for THE BEATLES, who are easily bigger, and for song rights to at least what was on the disc, which was 45 songs. Harmonix wouldn't spend $500,000 on one song from a big band, when getting 45 songs from the BIGGEST band was(on a song-to-song basis) cheaper.

This thread isn't based on statistics. We're simply seeing how tall some things are compared to others.

Damn, GNF. You're pretty awesome, dude.
No really, not being sarcastic!
You took all my points and made me eat them on a spoon :3

Well, shows how much I know about business. I really wouldn't want to see more complaining than there already is (which is more than enough), so you're totally on the money on that. And I didn't know about the Game Informer article, so can't say much about that. I'm glad you took your time to explain that all to me, it's actually really informative and stuff. There's quite a bit of haze when it comes to all this, but I guess that's just par for the course.

I guess, then my comment was only to fulfill my own curiosity XP
Thanks, man.

[GNFfhqwhgads]

Wasn't "Piano Man" the best-selling post-RB3 track for a few months?

it was. Pretty sure he means the Piano Challenge pack, but since all 18 songs were probably licensed at once, the Greatest Hits + Piano Man single probably carried the Piano Challenge.

Also, Billy Joel quite possibly sold a few keyboards, so if you count Harmonix's cut of that(since they don't produce or distribute, I think instrument sales are like RBN in which it's nearly all profit for Harmonix in return for minimal work/money), it's bumped more.

And I didn't know about the Game Informer article, so can't say much about that.

Don't worry, most people don't. It was way back when RB1 was fresh, and it was a little blurb in the corner of the page. I always look for it when I bring it up, but I can only find one other (wrong) copy of the magazine in my house.

[jeronemitchell]

it was. Pretty sure he means the Piano Challenge pack, but since all 18 songs were probably licensed at once, the Greatest Hits + Piano Man single probably carried the Piano Challenge.

I was making specific reference to the packs that didn't sell well. I was also not referencing teh first Bob Marley album, for example. So, yes... I mean the Piano Challenge, not the first pack.