A Song of Ice and Fire (some spoilers inside, watch for SPOILER warnings)

[instantdeath999]

I did notice the breakneck speed a bit, in the Council scenes with Ned, the ones concerning Robert's death They were talking quite fast.

Spoiler warning for the book





Perhaps Dany's meekness here is to build up to the scene where she actually hits him? The scene where he's essentially spitting on all of her gifts.




End spoiler.

[Oscar-Rio]

I'm guessing you haven't read the books, the show is pretty much following the story page for page. Minus a handful of cuts or tweaks, mind you, they're inevitable in a novel adaptation.

no i haven't read the book series, but that doesn't change anything about this show for me on a personal level. So you can't really hate on me for this reason because i can claim some minor negligence in this area. How well a book translates from print to film isn't enough for me to get on board if i feel the show should have been approached differently.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge sucker for medieval/fantasy based anything, but this show is just so formulaic in the HBO realm that i can't help but be critical of it, because i want to it be something more than it is.

I felt a little betrayed by the awesome opening of the first episode only to have the show kind of pitter off into just another HBO drama chalk full of sex, d-cup t*ts and shirtless michaelangelo-esque guys. I won't even really get into the wardrobe/costume/set gripes i have with the show, because it's not as much of a deal breaker as the entire tone of the show was/is.

I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Oscar doesn't like something.

Still, disliking something does not automatically warrant saying it's 'poorly done'.

oh you know, if i wasn't a bit of a cynical critic i probably wouldn't have graduated post-secondary and have my current job. Anyways, i think the show is well done in terms of its cinematography, but it's the way the entire show is approached and how certain element of HBO's shows feel like they're put in because it's what HBO fans have come to expect. I suppose my rant is more directed at HBO's incessant need to blast the screen with flesh and sexuality at any chance they can. I find the scenes like that completely detract from the show.


Another side note; i usually can't relate to shows where the focus heavily revolves around royalty/royal families. I can't interject and relate to that.

[CrazyIvan]

I agree about the portrayal of Dany. They really have taken her strength away, and outside of the scene in episode 3 where she's lying in Drogo's arms, she really doesn't have much character to her. Which is a shame. However, I have a feeling that will change by the end of the season. Maybe they will have her suggest the "golden crown" for Viserys?

Otherwise, I loved episode 3. Syrio was beyond perfect, and I am really, really impressed with the acting chops of Maisie Williams. So good for a girl her age. I also really enjoyed the Jaime/Ned scene in the throne room, and I love how Jaime initially shows wounded pride whenever Ned or Robert calls him the kingslayer, but ultimately just rolls with the punches. Shows depth to his character that I assume will only grow as the seasons roll along.

Also.... MAJOR spoilers....




How heart-wrenching was it watching Catelyn ride away after her touching moment with Ned knowing it was the last time they would see each other.


End MAJOR spoilers.

[Der_Lex]

oh you know, if i wasn't a bit of a cynical critic i probably wouldn't have graduated post-secondary and have my current job. Anyways, i think the show is well done in terms of its cinematography, but it's the way the entire show is approached and how certain element of HBO's shows feel like they're put in because it's what HBO fans have come to expect. I suppose my rant is more directed at HBO's incessant need to blast the screen with flesh and sexuality at any chance they can. I find the scenes like that completely detract from the show.

In all fairness, the flesh and sexuality are in the books as well. It's not something added randomly. It probably gets a bit more focus because generally speaking boobies = viewers, but I see that as the price you pay for having HBO-levels of harsh, graphic violence in there as well. And although the story could do without the former, it absolutely needs the latter. Westeros is a harsh and gritty world in comparison to most bright and shiny fantasy settings, and you need the sheer brutality on screen to truly show that.

But it's definitely a show about lords and ladies, even though commoners play a large role (especially the Night's Watch from the series opening). If that's something you can't relate to, that's all right, then the show is simply not for you. There's plenty of otherwise good (and not so good) shows I can't relate to either. Also nothing wrong with being critical, although I do feel cynicism is taking it a bit too far. Personally I've always preferred treating everything as one big joke, life's a lot more fun that way.

[Oscar-Rio]

. Westeros is a harsh and gritty world in comparison to most bright and shiny fantasy settings, and you need the sheer brutality on screen to truly show that.

See, i felt this was portrayed poorly in the episode I watched. The opening sequence was truly awesome, but much of the remainder of the episode didn't seem to recapture that tone at all. I don't mind the brutality of it all, in fact I welcome it, but I just feel that the portrayal of gritty harshness could stand to be more prominent throughout as opposed to small snippets of it here and there.

I might just wait for the season to finish airing and do a marathon run-through of it. But my initial feelings is that it's just another Borgias/Spartacus/Tudors type show. It could stand to separate itself a bit more with more fantasy and less drama.

[Der_Lex]

The book is low fantasy as well. The fantasy elements slowly build up throughout the series. The majority of it consists of plotting, political maneuvering, and the occasional battle.

That does make the 'fantastic' moments stand out a lot more, though.

[Sayburr]

I loved the books for the "low" fantasy approach. It was more about how the humans interacted with one another than how they interacted with non-humans. It was also more about might of arms and intelligence than it is about magic and power wielding.

I love however, how over the course of the books those elements have slowly creped into the storylines.

Also, I have not seen any of the shows yet. Been waiting for Alesia to get back from her trip (May 18, new job, over six weeks of training) to enjoy it with her sitting next to me. But, the talk about Daenerys, has got me thinking… I thought she was a pretty weak character until after her “fire bath”, which is when she changed completely. She should be overshadowed right now.


ALSO: Dance of Dragons is DONE! http://georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

[instantdeath999]

Oscar, keep in mind that, being a book adaptation, most of the early episodes have been 90% character development. It does seem like the creators made the show more for the viewers who have read the books. It gives the basic plot, and adds in some very cool scenes, but keeping it all straight does in a lot of ways hinge on the books.

For the record, what is the difference between high and low fantasy? Is it anything like "high" and "low" art, or does it refer to the tone of the story?

I agree about the portrayal of Dany. They really have taken her strength away, and outside of the scene in episode 3 where she's lying in Drogo's arms, she really doesn't have much character to her. Which is a shame. However, I have a feeling that will change by the end of the season. Maybe they will have her suggest the "golden crown" for Viserys?

I just reached the "golden crown" scene... almost feel sorry for Viserys. I think it would be out of character big time if Dany were the one to actually suggest it, though.

[Der_Lex]

Opinions about the exact definitions of high and low fantasy differ.
To me, the difference between high and low fantasy is the amount of magic and fantastical elements in the story. Books like the A Song of Ice and Fire series and Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell are low fantasy, whereas series like The Wheel of Time, Harry Potter or The Malazan Tales of the Fallen are high fantasy.

[instantdeath999]

Ah, I see. I'm really not a fan of the distinction between "high" and "low" art, and the word "low" tends to have some negative connotations, so I thought it could be similar to that. I'm not sure what I would think of A Song of Ice and Fire was considered the lowbrow comedy of fantasy.