Fender Squier current status & availability - IMPORTANT INFO - HMX update to OP 6/27

[skyp1e]

It's hardly the "foundation of Harmonix's marketing". Pro Mode was the marketing thrust for RB3, the ability to play real music in the game with realistic instruments which would help you to learn to play an instrument outside the game. This included the cymbal kit, keyboard, Mustang and Squier.

I think what Obi_Wan_Kenoli means (and forgive me if I get the wrong implication) is that the Squier is a very important symbol for RB3 PRO mode. It is the only controller Rock Band has that can be described as a "Real Guitar" without a lot of debate to say that, "no it isn't."

If you remove the Squier from the picture than it opens the door for Ubisoft to state loud and clear in their marketing campaign that they alone support "Real Guitar" for game play. It would be hard to refute without the Squier. Regardless of how the Mustang can be used as a MIDI controller or that the YRG can be used through an amp or that with the right tools and know how you can use any guitar to play RB3, the competition and the general public will still think that RB3 is just another "pretender's" game.

Even if Ubisoft fails with their bid with the rocksmith game, the meme will be out there that RB3 is just another make believe fantasy game and that is damaging to the franchise.

The token of a real stringed guitar is essential for marketing as far as RB3 is concerned and not in the past tense. It needs to be something readily available for the duration of the PRO MODE as long as HMX pumps out DLC.

EVEN IF THE GUITAR REMAINS HARD TO FIND DOMESTICALLY OR INTERNATIONALLY THERE STILL -MUST- BE A GUITAR TO BE HAD.

I used all caps there because I cannot emphasize that point too highly.

[raynebc]

Seriously, all Fender would have to do in order to get these outside of the USA is to provide merchandise to Amazon, who ships globally. This would even be the easy way out, because Fender wouldn't have to deal with vendors in other countries.

[mikeyts]

The token of a real stringed guitar is essential for marketing as far as RB3 is concerned and not in the past tense. It needs to be something readily available for the duration of the PRO MODE as long as HMX pumps out DLC.

EVEN IF THE GUITAR REMAINS HARD TO FIND DOMESTICALLY OR INTERNATIONALLY THERE STILL -MUST- BE A GUITAR TO BE HAD.

You haven't said anything that Obi_Wan_Kenoli and a few other people have been saying--I've heard it loud and clear. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Again, I do not see Rocksmith as competition for RB3. It's a solo guitar game and learning tool and the only overlap it has with the RB market are those people who were interested in RB pro guitar, whom I believe are a minor subset of RB players. (RS' market might be larger because it will include people who happen to have electric or acoustic electric instruments laying around who would not have paid for any of the RB3 pro guitar controllers). I'll be shocked silly if it sells more than a few hundred thousand copies.

Learning to play guitar is difficult no matter how you go about it and I think that most people realize that. Only people who already play guitar and those with the determination to spend the time and effort to learn are going to buy that game (and, I suppose, some people who don't realize how hard it is to learn to play an instrument, a group which might be quite large ).

Of course, I won't be able to resist buying it, ironically playing it with my Squier Stratocaster Guitar and Controller .

[GreenOak]

Seriously, all Fender would have to do in order to get these outside of the USA is to provide merchandise to Amazon, who ships globally. This would even be the easy way out, because Fender wouldn't have to deal with vendors in other countries.

Or just reinstate the shipments to the big distributors / online retailers - the big retailers in Europe received two large shipments each as their first order was sold-out on pre-bookings and their second shipments lasted mere days.

Guess what happened when they tried to place further orders? http://www.andertons.co.uk/electric-...controller.asp

I was one of the lucky ones, I had a pre-order in, but if I'd have known what was going to happen I'd have pre-ordered two as the plan was to give it a try and if it was any good then order another so two of us could use them together - one on lead and one on bass.

I'm guessing there's no chance of a Fender bass now

[Obi_Wan_Kenoli]

I think what Obi_Wan_Kenoli means (and forgive me if I get the wrong implication) is that the Squier is a very important symbol for RB3 PRO mode. It is the only controller Rock Band has that can be described as a "Real Guitar" without a lot of debate to say that, "no it isn't."

If you remove the Squier from the picture than it opens the door for Ubisoft to state loud and clear in their marketing campaign that they alone support "Real Guitar" for game play. It would be hard to refute without the Squier. Regardless of how the Mustang can be used as a MIDI controller or that the YRG can be used through an amp or that with the right tools and know how you can use any guitar to play RB3, the competition and the general public will still think that RB3 is just another "pretender's" game.

Even if Ubisoft fails with their bid with the rocksmith game, the meme will be out there that RB3 is just another make believe fantasy game and that is damaging to the franchise.

The token of a real stringed guitar is essential for marketing as far as RB3 is concerned and not in the past tense. It needs to be something readily available for the duration of the PRO MODE as long as HMX pumps out DLC.

EVEN IF THE GUITAR REMAINS HARD TO FIND DOMESTICALLY OR INTERNATIONALLY THERE STILL -MUST- BE A GUITAR TO BE HAD.

I used all caps there because I cannot emphasize that point too highly.

This is exactly what I was saying, not very ambiguously either. Since Guitar Hero, guitar has been the most iconic instrument, even in plastic form and after the transition to the band model. I consider it to be an iconic instrument period.

I think it'd be a huge mistake for a mode that prides itself on it's striving for realism, not to have the "real" instrument anymore, and to take a step backwards with admittedly elegant, but guitar synthesizers and simulators. The strings, body, and most importantly sound being produced by the physics of the performing artist's technique and not variations of software reacting to button presses, whether 5 or 105, and producing sound.

Hopefully we'll see someone take up the reigns in the future and the "guitar" guitar isn't abandoned.

[mikeyts]

I think it'd be a huge mistake for a mode that prides itself on it's striving for realism, not to have the "real" instrument anymore...

Hopefully we'll see someone take up the reigns in the future and the "guitar" guitar isn't abandoned.

Unless Fender should decide to manufacture and distribute the Squier again, I think that there's no hope of that whatsoever. In order to establish a manufacturing partnership with someone to make a new version of the "real" pro guitar controller, they're gonna have make that manufacturer believe that they can make money doing and there's just no way. So if you're right and the disappearance of a "real" pro guitar controller spells doom for RB, then it's doomed.

[skyp1e]

Unless Fender should decide to manufacture and distribute the Squier again, I think that there's no hope of that whatsoever. In order to establish a manufacturing partnership with someone to make a new version of the "real" pro guitar controller, they're gonna have make that manufacturer believe that they can make money doing and there's just no way. So if you're right and the disappearance of a "real" pro guitar controller spells doom for RB, then it's doomed.

I think that Fender's problem with the Squier was that it was far too alien to their regular production.

It was ambitious of them to take on the saddle of manufacturing a guitar with lots of extra electronic components that weren't directly associated with guitar play.

However, ambition is often rewarded with headaches. I think that this isn't an issue of "These things aren't selling enough so we're out" as it is "These things are more trouble than they are worth to make so we're out".

Yamaha has the infrastructure for a hybrid guitar controller that Fender and Gibson both do not. Fender had to create these guitars from scratch essentially. They aren't doodad makers, they are guitar manufacturers.

Yamaha IS a doodad maker. They make MIDI trumpets for goodness sakes. They understand the mechanics involved in pumping out a complicated electronic instrument that Fender may have thought they were more capable of but alas were not.

If HMX struck a bargain with Yamaha to make a real stringed guitar that works as a controller for RB3 today, we'd see them available at retail within 18 months if not a year.

And just that promise of one forthcoming alone would be all that HMX needs to keep the naysayers at bay. In fact if Yamaha could whip up a prototype and demonstrate it in a few youtube videos it would be a boon to the RB franchise.

And I would like to reiterate that the success or failure of rocksmith (which I also don't expect to do very well) doesn't mean that the advertising Ubisoft does while it will can't damage RB by creating false shortcomings for the franchise and labeling it "for pretenders" as they are already doing. Lack of a real guitar doesn't help us at all.

[mikeyts]

If HMX struck a bargain with Yamaha to make a real stringed guitar that works as a controller for RB3 today, we'd see them available at retail within 18 months if not a year.

OK--assuming that HMX could get Yamaha interested in doing it, I'll accept that estimate. Is that soon enough to make a difference?

BTW, Yamaha already manufactures an learning instrument very simular in appearance to the YRG, though it has only 12 frets--see this product page and this clip of someone playing it.

[skyp1e]

OK--assuming that HMX could get Yamaha interested in doing it, I'll accept that estimate. Is that soon enough to make a difference?

BTW, Yamaha already manufactures an learning instrument very simular in appearance to the YRG, though it has only 12 frets--see this product page and this clip of someone playing it.

Yes, it would be soon enough because all that is needed is an official announcement that the guitars are in the works. Fender's "it's discontinued" is very negative publicity and the word is spreading fast.

A, "new and improved coming in 2012/2013" would be a huge shot in the arm to counteract the damage done. Also if Yamaha were involved you can bet that we'd see a symmetrical construction that is very lefty friendly. Perhaps even a Bass down the road because again Yamaha has the tools to make it more readily than any pure guitar manufacturer does.

Going to look at the videos now.

EDIT: found an even better video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbQjy...1&feature=fvwp

[Obi_Wan_Kenoli]

Unless Fender should decide to manufacture and distribute the Squier again, I think that there's no hope of that whatsoever. In order to establish a manufacturing partnership with someone to make a new version of the "real" pro guitar controller, they're gonna have make that manufacturer believe that they can make money doing and there's just no way. So if you're right and the disappearance of a "real" pro guitar controller spells doom for RB, then it's doomed.

Okay, I understand your position. But what is annoying and borderline disrespectful is that although I give your opinion consideration, you continue to attribute these sensationalist claims to what I actually said. "If I'm right and the disappearance of a "real" pro guitar controller spells doom for RB". It's funny how I don't remember taking that position. Oh that's right, because I didn't.

I enjoyed the series before Pro was ever dreamed up, and hope to continue to enjoy the series now that Pro has been introduced for those that want to partake in it. I don't own one piece of "Pro" anything and don't plan to for the foreseeable future. But revenue is revenue and diverse sources is always a good thing.

I don't see how anyone could believe that the niche audience for this product would "doom", or "save" for that matter, Rockband as a brand, or to extrapolate that from what I said. Whether intentional or not, giving you the benefit of the doubt, it's classic Strawman, with an bit of ad hominem thrown in to label me as an alarmist, and getting very annoying. If you're going to bother to quote me, don't misrepresent my position please. If you want to argue a point I make, argue the actual point.

The disappearance of the "real" pro guitar, is a blow for those that want to play a "real" guitar as was a major feature of Pro. Selling them on midi mustangs, or yourocks, or 25 key pro keys, or pro drums, or whatever else you want to tack the pro label on, regardless of the quality or capabilities of the product, does nothing make that product now a "real" guitar. There will be a glaring hole for the product some people actually wanted or would have wanted.

If your byline is "play for real", it would be nice to have something easily recognized and acknowledged as a "real" guitar on the market. Otherwise it just seems like more elaborate versions of the "toys" we've already seen, regardless of the fact that while these are fully functional, sometimes deep, instruments, they are not interchangeable for a "real" guitar. That's a perception issue that will be impossible to get around if that's what comes to pass. So again, it would be a good thing to have a new manufacturer put one on the market to put out the stringed incarnation again.

I'm not going to go back and forth over profitability as again, from everything I've heard so far, this seems more of a logistics issue rather than a lack of demand issue. A statement I read on HMX's end stated that they view pro as a success by their metrics. Stores had to refund deposits because they couldn't get the stock to meet the backlog of orders they had. The product never even showed up with worldwide distributors like Amazon, or many international retailers period. People are surpirsed Rockband 3 was even out months after release, let alone you can play a "real guitar" in it.

But none of this factors into there being any demand for such a product many are ignorant of or just won't be able to get now and a proposal to a manufacturer to meet this obviously non-existent demand is a hopeless, fool's errand? I disagree. I don't know how many ways I have to say the same thing, but there it is.