Official Discussion Thread: DLC Week of 8/16 - Fall Out Boy 3 Pack and Deep Purple!

[SirDavidTLynch]

I'd say anyone who can do "Through the Fire and Flames" and "Roundabout" on pro guitar CAN do any song. But if someone's voice is high enough for "I Want You Back", it wouldn't be that hard, but how would that same person fare on a Johnny Cash song? Should "I Walk The Line" be in the final tier for that reason? Or both songs? Or neither song?

What's so hard about seeing if you're in the right octave anyway? If the bar is noticeably higher, you sing higher. If you can't tell, turn up the vocal track and/or use the guide pitch in practice mode.

Also, and this is something that's going on for years on this forum, I have no idea where the negativity towards an *additional* feature comes from. A number of things have been suggested that I don't like, but if they are additional and optional I really can't see why I would object.

It would require resources that would be better spent elsewhere, goals, unlocks, segregated leaderboards from basic mode...

[Bront20]

Of course it detracts, you're not singing what you're supposed to sing, unless by shifting you mean changing octaves but keeping the original extension, which is what we're suggesting would work for a pro mode.

You'd be surprised how many singers cover songs by shifting octaves. It's a perfectly acceptable way to sing many songs.

[Skode]

Highway Star (RB3 Version) - October 2015

Haha, aye - the updated version four years from now. Ill pencil that one in on my diary/calender/on the wall to keep me in mind about this so i can make sure im not working that tuesday and i can play it as soon as its released.

[Mr. Tate]

If it were physically impossible for 90% (or even 50%) to complete those songs on those instruments? Yep. If your wrist bothers you, you stop playing, and you make sure you stretch.

You didn't answer, though. I know that you can stop playing, but you suggested that it would be irresponsible for Harmonix to have a game mode that may hurt people not capable of playing it correctly. So, a lot of people are playing any instrument too hard and complaining that a leg, a hand, a shoulder, etc. hurts. I'm asking you again: is Harmonix being irresponsible? There is hypothetical here, it's a fact that there a difficult songs for any instrument and it's a fact that people are hurting (by their own words) playing them. Is Harmonix irresponsible for allowing this?

[Mr. Tate]

You'd be surprised how many singers cover songs by shifting octaves. It's a perfectly acceptable way to sing many songs.

Why would I be surprised, cover versions are rarely a perfect imitation. Also, if a female singer covers a song by a male singer it's obvious that she'll shift octaves. I'm talking about extension: if a Guns 'N Roses song requires a couple of octaves and a half, a pro mode would require a couple of octaves and a half. Right now you only need one octave and, granted, a very good ear to adapt the song, but still not the original extension.

[Mr. Tate]

I'd say anyone who can do "Through the Fire and Flames" and "Roundabout" on pro guitar CAN do any song. But if someone's voice is high enough for "I Want You Back", it wouldn't be that hard, but how would that same person fare on a Johnny Cash song? Should "I Walk The Line" be in the final tier for that reason? Or both songs? Or neither song?

Why would anybody have a problem singing Johnny Cash if they have a couple of octaves in them? Cash had a very deep and rich voice but not a great extension, so I wouldn't see a problem. Anyone able to sing a 2 1/2 octave song could sing any song sung in 2 octaves or less. Just like someone else pointed most of singers covering songs do.

It would require resources that would be better spent elsewhere, goals, unlocks, segregated leaderboards from basic mode...

Fair enough, that's a reasonable point.

[jeccaneko]

Maybe my perspective is somewhere in between the two sides on the vocals issue... I primarily think pro mode vox could be more realistic, I'd like to know when I'm singing in the right octave, and be rewarded somehow for it. I wouldn't say that you had to sing in the exact right octave to get any score at all, just that you shouldn't be able to FC a 5 octave song if you only have a one octave range... So, there are many shades of gray here. Not everything that would apply on expert necessarily has to apply on hard either... etc... so there's a lot of ways this could be done.

I know for sure that many people can't FC Painkiller on Expert Drums due to physical limitations, (ie. there's no amount of reasonable practice that will get some people's limbs to move that fast), and same thing with TTFatF guitar, pro guitar as was already mentioned)... etc... That's why they are devil tiered...

At least with drums and guitar, you probably could get past those physical limitations with practice. Even with professional vocal training, there is no possible way that anyone could sing every song in Rock Band with what you are proposing. It would be physically impossible. NO ONE can sing every range.

There's also the problem that it puts people into boxes. What about singers that naturally sing at higher octaves, such as kids, female singers, and some male singers? There are many, many Rock Band songs they'd never be able to sing due to this. I'm a female Rock Band player with a higher pitched voice. Even singers like Joan Jett I would not be able to do at her original octave, because my voice is higher than hers.

Same is true for the other way around. There's plenty of male RB players that like singing female fronted vocals, but wouldn't be able to with your proposal.

[Mr. Tate]

NO ONE can sing every range.

We're talking, once again, about *extension*. You could transpose the melody up or down (I guess by an octave because I don't think the software is smart enough to do a fifth), you would not be able to shorten the extension (that's the challenge). And yes, if you can't sing the original song, or if you can't play on guitar/bass/drums/keys the original song in pro mode, you won't probably get much pleasure from playing the song, for any instrument.

Also, really, I'm starting to read too many times that nobody can ever change their vocal range when this is not true. I didn't object until now because it's irrelevant to the game (I can't play pro guitar for the life of me, that doesn't mean Pro Guitar mode should be banished), but seriously, do you think singers are actually born with the very same extension with which they record songs?