Anti-Social Goal System - Please address!

[A_Drunken_Smurf]

The goal system for goals in which you can have others join to help you is currently, in my opinion, slightly flawed. Presently, you get coin payouts based on how many songs you played towards the goal. This makes sense in principle - the people who put the most in should get the most out, right?

Here's the problem - I was at work today, and got invited to join a friend's Dave Grohl goal - I join, and see a bunch of other friends in the group. We start talking about who has what DLC, and I'm excited to get home and start cracking on this goal (which has a nice coin payout to boot).

I get home, boot up, hop on Facebook to see what needs to be done...

And see the goal is 2 songs from completion. By the time I get into the game, the goal is complete. I have been awarded 0 coins for the goal, and it is no longer available for me to select again, since it's considered complete.

The worst part is, I could have completed this goal by myself; I had enough DLC to do so. So I start looking at all the other goals I had joined that day, and sure enough, most were about to be completed. I was able to salvage a few coins from some of the others, but it made me wonder how many people were going to join goals in the future once they realize that if they don't play in them fast enough, they will forever lose the coin bonus associated with it.

What's worse - people can join your goals, and complete them, without you ever having an opportunity to stop them. If I'm at work, and am going through the goals, and start a few so that when I get home I can get cracking, other people can join that goal and complete it without my consent, and I get 0 coins and no chance to replay the goal. That's an issue.

Now, I get why it's like this: it prevents people who had no songs for the goal from free-loading and getting coins for doing nothing. But there should be some minimum payout for anyone who joins the goal - say 10% of the total. At the least, someone who contributes nothing should be able to do the goal again (it won't mark as complete).

Bottom line is that I may be less inclined to join group goals for fear that I won't get a full payout, or that it will be completed before I get a chance to play it. I certainly won't bother responding to requests at work (which means I might miss out on groups that fill up quick).

Note: This doesn't apply to "community goals" - I know that that is a base payout for everyone, regardless of participation level.

[Ralphy2009]

If I'm at work, and am going through the goals, and start a few so that when I get home I can get cracking, other people can join that goal and complete it without my consent, and I get 0 coins and no chance to replay the goal. That's an issue.

There are issues with the Facebook system and better ways things could be done, but I think you only have yourself to blame for this approach. Don't start goals long before you start playing if you don't want other people to join and finish them for you.

[Bront20]

You joined a goal? Must be nice. Wish I could do that.

Yeah, I think they need to overhaul it a bit, and they likely will.

[hodayathink]

If I were them (Harmonix), I'd fix it by making it so that if you do a goal as a group, but end up getting no payout from it, then the don't get marked down as having completed the goal. That way, if this happens to you, you can just start the goal over again. And your friends shouldn't be able to do this to you again, since they've already completed the goal. Or if they can (and do), then they're dicks and you should think about de-friending them.

[A_Drunken_Smurf]

While on this topic, and expanding on what you said, Hoda, the system should allow you to replay goals, but only give you coin payouts if you play songs that you didn't play in previous completions. This would solve a couple of problems: 1) It would allow you to help friends who ask for help after you've completed a goal 2) It would allow you to get coins for goals that were completed by others before you could get to them 3) It would allow you to get more life out of older, more general goals (if abuse is a concern, restrict this to Medium or Hard challenges, which tend to be more specific)

[A_Drunken_Smurf]

There are issues with the Facebook system and better ways things could be done, but I think you only have yourself to blame for this approach. Don't start goals long before you start playing if you don't want other people to join and finish them for you.

That may work for some people, but my schedule doesn't have that flexibility. I get a little personal time at work to do things like this, because when I get home, I'm tending to my family's needs, not mine. Once I get some time to play late at night when everyone's asleep, I want to play games, not go through Facebook, accept all the pending requests, read through and tell folks what I can offer towards the goal, and then wait while the app and the game sync up.

But if that's what I have to do, because it's my fault, then it proved my point that goals are anti-social. I could complete these things on my own, but I like the social aspect.

[Bront20]

There are issues with the Facebook system and better ways things could be done, but I think you only have yourself to blame for this approach. Don't start goals long before you start playing if you don't want other people to join and finish them for you.

No offense, but that argument is blaming the victim. It's hardly his fault for joining his friends in a goal before he had a chance to play.

Me, if I can do a goal myself, I generally won't join a group. If I can't, then I will.

I think groups need to be more fluid though. I started a goal earlier, then got an invite from a friend later. Now, we can't group together because we've both started the goal. Say I have a goal I can't hit and I know it, well, I can't quit it at all, even if quitting it wouldn't let me try it again.

[Ralphy2009]

No offense, but that argument is blaming the victim. It's hardly his fault for joining his friends in a goal before he had a chance to play.

No offense, but that's how the goals work right now. It is his "fault" for joining his friends in a goal too far in advance of when he would be playing, allowing others to complete it in the meantime. You don't have to like that goals work that way, but if you understand how goals work and still choose to join goals far in advance anyway, then the "victim" is allowing himself to be "victimized." If I understand that ice cream is bad for me and I choose to eat a lot of ice cream and put on weight, I don't think I can call myself a victim. I can ask the manufacturer of the ice cream to put out a healthier product, but if I decide to load up on ice cream while I'm waiting and let the damage add up, I'm hardly a victim.

[CharityDiary]

No offense, but that's how the goals work right now. It is his "fault" for joining his friends in a goal too far in advance of when he would be playing, allowing others to complete it in the meantime. You don't have to like that goals work that way, but if you understand how goals work and still choose to join goals far in advance anyway, then the "victim" is allowing himself to be "victimized." If I understand that ice cream is bad for me and I choose to eat a lot of ice cream and put on weight, I don't think I can call myself a victim. I can ask the manufacturer of the ice cream to put out a healthier product, but if I decide to load up on ice cream while I'm waiting and let the damage add up, I'm hardly a victim.

But people are joining HIS goals, not the other way around. He can't really do anything about that.

So is it his fault for starting that goal? I guess you could also say that it's a rape victim's fault for being a woman (statistically)? Just saying.

[Casto21]

...got invited to join a friend's Dave Grohl goal - I join, ...

But people are joining HIS goals, not the other way around. He can't really do anything about that.

Actually his main part of the post was about him joining someone else's goal.

To me, if you join one and don't get to complete many (or any) songs then that is completely on you. You chose to join those people. If they are your friends and you discussed stuff, then make sure they know who is doing what. If they don't abide by the agreement then don't join them again.

On the flip-side, having other people join and complete your own goals without invites is a bad implementation. I would like to see joining be restricted to invites.