Is MasterMO real?

[Diamaniacal]

I don't want to sound combative here, but I think the fact that Aaron came in here and said that this is an exploit pretty much puts to bed the argument as to whether it is, in fact, an exploit. Whether something is working as intended is not really a matter of our opinion, but that of the people who designed the game, and he's the only one in here who has access to those people.

Have you watched MasterMO's video?
100% of the notes on all the lanes as he was switching, yeah he lost blitz mode a few times, but for the most part maintained it and he was anything but spamming notes.
I doubt that anyone at Harmonix ever said "We have to keep the timing window large enough to where it is not frustrating to casual players, but I don't intend for someone to be able to play 2 lanes." This scenario was not even imagined.

We can argue and discuss whether we think anything should be done or what exactly should be done, but it's pretty obvious that the capability of spamming to spawn infinite flame notes is an unintended side effect....

So is it ok to spam buttons to get a perfect solo?

The fact that the timing window is still open on passed notes is precisely what enables the button mashing strategy to work with Bandmate/Flame, and button mashing doesn't require skill (at least not of the kind we normally associate with rhythm games.)

So if I can hit 2 adjacent notes before they pass me is that ok?

I offered up a suggestion for them to fix the adjacent note issue, fixing the adjacent note issue is going to have very little impact on the kind of scores that MasterMO is capable of.

[BigStevieCool21]

Have you watched MasterMO's video?

Where would this video be located at? have tried to find it no luck

[Epsilon82]

Have you watched MasterMO's video?
100% of the notes on all the lanes as he was switching, yeah he lost blitz mode a few times, but for the most part maintained it and he was anything but spamming notes.
I doubt that anyone at Harmonix ever said "We have to keep the timing window large enough to where it is not frustrating to casual players, but I don't intend for someone to be able to play 2 lanes." This scenario was not even imagined.




So is it ok to spam buttons to get a perfect solo?



So if I can hit 2 adjacent notes before they pass me is that ok?

I offered up a suggestion for them to fix the adjacent note issue, fixing the adjacent note issue is going to have very little impact on the kind of scores that MasterMO is capable of.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here exactly. Did Harmonix envision people playing 2 lanes at the same time? No, I agree with you that they probably didn't. But Aaron pretty much exactly said as much with regard to making the timing windows larger. The fact that they made the timing windows a certain way for a certain purpose doesn't mean that they're endorsing any and all unforeseen side effects that design decision entailed.

Do I think it's OK to spam buttons to get a perfect solo? Not really, but again, they didn't want to be overly punitive on misses. I think Blitz mode was intended to be a deterrent to that kind of behavior, but the reality is that Blitz mode doesn't provide nearly enough points to offset the Bandmate/Flame exploit. It's a much closer call when it comes to the difference of 5 or 10 thousand points from a single solo bonus; it's conceivable that keeping Blitz mode could be more valuable in that case depending on how long the solo is.

I personally think buffing Blitz mode substantially could do a lot to offset this exploit. People who are playing 2 lanes simultaneously legitimately? Hell, they deserve every point they get. That's a pretty impressive feat. The problem is that the same effect can be achieved without such technical skill, and that's what Blitz mode could potentially address.

I'm also not sure what you mean when you suggest that fixing the adjacent note issue would have very little impact on MasterMO's scores. MasterMO's entire strategy rests on the ability to hit all the notes in two lanes. If by "fixing" you mean "remove the ability" to hit notes in adjacent lanes at the same time, then I think MasterMO's (and probably MaximusDM's) scores would take a substantial hit. Otherwise they'd have to be lightning quick in recognizing where each subsequent flame spawns, and MasterMO himself said that the beauty of his strategy is that he doesn't have to do that because he can play everything in both lanes.

I might have skimmed over your proposed fix too quickly, so I could be completely off-base about what you suggested. I'll read through it again and edit this post if necessary.

[MaximusDM]

Hitting 2 adjacent notes isn't an "issue" and doesn't need "fixing".
Its the timing window of this particular rhythm game. It was made that way for a reason. HMXHenry mentioned "lane juggling" in his post and how it made for better gameplay.
Yeah earlier on people complained about breaking streak when switch lanes. But then you grew to understand the timing window and knew to switch with close notes like that, you best double hit when you shift to ensure you aren't breaking jackpot.

I expressed great concern about NERFING anything when they secretly buffed super instrument multipliers. Because if they can buff something, that means they can nerf something leaving leaderboards with unobtainable scores.

I'm sure they never questioned if Pinball was going to be okay when there are songs that exist that only have 1 instrument. Its simply a bi-product of the rules the game sets. If you don't want to use Pinball on a 1 lane track song because you think its cheating, then live with not having a top leaderboard score and keep your dignity.

There is concern to be had for note spamming and I mentioned ways of combating it in an earlier post a couple pages ago.

Button mashing on solos I see no problems with. For those are don't mash buttons, Blitz will reward them and will outmatch your button mashing. Now like Epsilon82 said, I don't think personally rewards nearly as much as it should especially in light of juggling highways with button mashing, but that is a decision up for HMX to make.
As a result, you will have pretty much the same thing going on with leaderboards except the scores will likely just be even more unobtainable because that won't make any less of the power-up combination.

In my opinion, accuracy does need a better reward and possible punishment for missing/overhitting.

If anything does get buffed, I really don't look forward to replaying hundreds of songs over to get higher scores based on new rules. Luckily the instruments/sync were buffed kind of early.

And those buffs were based on information that HMX collects through the highscores of everyone playing. They know which combinations achieved which scores and they know what combinations are being underused/overused.

For the most part, you can hit gold with most any combination. And I think that was the goal for HMX. Play the way you want to.

If you are going for high scores. There probably will be an optimal combination per song. And honestly that is part of the fun, playing a song, seeing where you placed in relation to other people, judging your own personal performance with your powerups, could you have improved on that run or are you using the wrong load out? Experiment and replay.

[krakronyz44]

where's masterMo's video? I'd like to see how it's done in action

[Epsilon82]

where's masterMo's video? I'd like to see how it's done in action

I don't know how these forums handle links, so just go to YouTube and search "buddy holly rock band blitz" and it should be the first result. His YouTube handle is MasterCMo.

As you can see, and others have described, he's activating Bandmate on the guitar lane when he has flame notes spreading, and because of the way flame notes spread, as long as he hits all of the notes on two lanes, the flames will continue indefinitely as long as he has Bandmate active. So he's playing the drum and bass lanes at the same time by rapidly switching between them and taking advantage of the loose timing windows to allow him to hit every note in both of those lanes, keeping flames going indefinitely, and getting even more spawning from the ones that Bandmate hits for him in the guitar lane.

It's clear from his video that he's personally not "button mashing," but the rub is that because the game only penalizes you for over-hitting by breaking your Blitz mode bonus, you can achieve the same effect just by spamming both hit buttons while rapidly switching back and forth. You'll get nothing from Blitz mode, but compared to the massive points you get from so many Flame notes, it's a drop in the bucket, and you're much less likely to lose the flame combo if you happen to miss the wrong note in one of the lanes.

As for MaximusDM's post, I completely agree with everything in there. I would only mention that HMX pretty clearly indicated that they have no plans to nerf any of the powerups, for precisely the reason you mentioned regarding unattainable scores. That's why I like the idea of substantially buffing Blitz mode, because it would further reward players like you and MasterMO (and now Zage, it seems) who are legitimately playing the two lanes without spamming, and reward clean play in general, which would discourage would-be button mashers from using the exploit, as well as discourage people from button mashing in solos.

[BlkKeyBlade]

Everyone knows you're good. Don't need to brag it up :P I'd like to see you try pro instruments though (except pro drums and harmonies)

Cuz playing pro drums doesnt mean you have skills? I let everyone that comes over try to play ANY drums and they always fail epicly. And recognizing harmonies and being able to sing them with others correctly still requires skills. Guitar on the other hand is probably the most commonly learned instrument on the planet, so its obviously not THAT hard.

[BlkKeyBlade]

I AGREE. All these blitz pros never put up any videos or proof to show how they pull these ridiculous scores off. Even the guitar hero and Rock Band community require proof to really show they did it. If you can bot RB why not RBBlitz? just let the notes auto hit well you move the track and farm pinball with no effort or risk to losing notes.....

[Groudon199]

I AGREE. All these blitz pros never put up any videos or proof to show how they pull these ridiculous scores off. Even the guitar hero and Rock Band community require proof to really show they did it. If you can bot RB why not RBBlitz? just let the notes auto hit well you move the track and farm pinball with no effort or risk to losing notes.....

I imagine someone could create a bot for Blitz, but not one that autoplays while you're frantically switching tracks.

[HopeStillFlies]

I AGREE. All these blitz pros never put up any videos or proof to show how they pull these ridiculous scores off. Even the guitar hero and Rock Band community require proof to really show they did it.

For what it's worth, both of my cameras (Digital SLR and Digital8 film) and my capture card throw hissyfits when trying to record RB Blitz. It becomes an unwatchable mess.