What Happened to Flame Notes In Rockband Blitz?????

[AJayN85]

But that's exactly the point: their own interpretation of their data does absolutely nothing to lend credence to their contention that Tournament participation would have been lower if they hadn't nerfed Flames. If a vast majority of Blitz players can't even get 5 stars, then what on Earth makes them think those players would be tuned in enough to the machinations of the highest echelons of Blitz play that they would even give a flying crap about it at all?

That makes sense then. To be honest, this thread has gotten long enough to the point where I forget what's been said and why we're all yelling so loudly. :P When you put it that way, it does appear that Flame notes players got hosed.

To play devil's advocate for HMX, I would guess they didn't want the top 4 scores on each leaderboard to look ridiculously daunting... even though with Pinball/Sync, the top 4 scores are exactly that. :X Maybe they wouldn't have found out Pinball/Sync was as/more broken had Flames not been nerfed? I dunno. *shrug*

At this point, I would hope they return Flames to 1,500 and limit future tournaments to specific songs and loadouts. If, by my own logic, a majority of the people were not affected by the Flame nerf, then conversely, a majority of the people would not be affected by returning Flames to their original value.

[Santa Claustrophobia]

That's a pretty ignorant thing to say.

In a thread where people have claimed that getting high scores is a very important thing to them? No, it isn't.

And the objective may very well be to get the highest score possible. But that doesn't mean it's the only reason to play. I know I don't play Rock Band with an eye for getting the top leaderboard spots. But maybe I'm weird like that.

Not sure why the argument has to be about your specific fun, though. Everybody else's is just as valid.

[cowboys282]

The key argument is that this thread represents the larger Blitz playerbase. Given repeated statements by HMX that these forums do not accurately coincide with wider playing trends for all of HMX's products, the only thing that is true is that this thread is filled with people who don't like it. There is nothing else that is true about it.

Actually one of the main reasons behind the nerf was because the player trend was that to many people were using Flame notes and not enough people were using other Powerups. So although we might be the most vocal make no mistake about it. The majority of players Casual or hardcore were using Flame notes before the nerf.

So, why is this happening? We've tracked a ton of user feedback (here, on Twitter, on Facebook, in email, etc) and a ton of in game data, and it became clear that Flame notes were overpowered. Compared to other power ups, compared to scores logged using other power ups, compared to the regularity with which users selected other power ups... it wasn't as balanced as it should be.

And to your other point

Why this thread needs the same voices repeating the same things is anybody's guess. Unless it's just so that like-minded people can form a safe, anonymous 'mod' to shout down anybody who disagrees with them.

Probably the only fact we have here is that there are people for whom the leaderboards are more fun than the game.

Nobodies shouting anyone down. I am still waiting for someone to give me a valid argument about how the game is now better? My point all along has been this. Rock Band Blitz is a score based game. The goal. To beat your own high score. To beat your friends high score. To compete with others trying to beat high scores on the leaderboards. We all spent hundreds of dollars on songs, played them, and got scores on the songs.

Almost all of everyone's high scores cannot be beat now. So instead of trying to poke holes in everyone's position why not offer something. Tell us why this change was good? Tell how the game is more fun now than before? Try to change peoples minds rather than poke holes in their positions.

[cowboys282]

To play devil's advocate for HMX, I would guess they didn't want the top 4 scores on each leaderboard to look ridiculously daunting... even though with Pinball/Sync, the top 4 scores are exactly that. :X Maybe they wouldn't have found out Pinball/Sync was as/more broken had Flames not been nerfed? I dunno. *shrug*

Your right on Ajay. I was digging through some old posts for another reply and came across this nugget from HMX Henry:

Why is this happening now? With Tournaments planned to launch this week, we were looking at a string of leaderboard driven competitions with real world prizing with a significant cash value. It was essential to us that these tournaments were as balanced as possible for those participating. Leaderboard bragging rights are one thing, but with consistent prizing on the line as well, we wanted to ensure a more level playing field.

So they wanted tournemts to be "as balanced as possible" and they "wanted to ensure a more level playing field."

Alright well tournaments are here and are going on now as we speak. I will ask anyone who is participating in them has HMX's goal been accomplished?

Is there a level playing field?
Is the game balanced and multiple load outs being used?

HMX knows the answers better than anyone. I would love for them to answers those questions.

[Epsilon82]

In a thread where people have claimed that getting high scores is a very important thing to them? No, it isn't.

Yes, it is. First of all, getting high scores is completely relative. And the entire game is designed around the notion of getting high scores. So the fact that people claim getting high scores is a very important thing to them in a game about getting high scores is hardly some kind of earth-shattering revelation.

More importantly, you said that "people here care more about leaderboards than the game." The fact that people care about scores in a game whose only competitive elements and overall sense of progression is provided by scores is perfectly reasonable. You expressly stated that people like me don't care about the game itself, which is flatly ridiculous. You honestly think the people here only care about some abstract number on a list and not the game that generates them? Given all of the discussion in this thread about why people enjoyed using Flames, all of which had to do with the mechanics of playing the game itself, that's just absurd.

And the objective may very well be to get the highest score possible. But that doesn't mean it's the only reason to play. I know I don't play Rock Band with an eye for getting the top leaderboard spots. But maybe I'm weird like that.

No, that's not weird at all. I don't actually care about getting the top leaderboard spots either. When it happens, or I get a really good ranking, I feel good about it. But I'm much more concerned with improving on my own personal scores. And when I can't even come close to one of my noob scores using a beginner-level combo even if I completely nail a frantic and difficult Jackpot/Flame run, it's incredibly disheartening. The incentive to use a far more challenging and enjoyable powerup combination has been entirely removed, for no good reason that anyone can logically explain or support.

Not sure why the argument has to be about your specific fun, though. Everybody else's is just as valid.

Where did I ever say that the argument is about MY fun? You're just putting words in my mouth. I've actually spent most of my time here asking how this makes the game more fun for ANYONE. I just fail to see how anybody else's fun would have been diminished by leaving the game as it was or returning it to its previous state now. People who weren't using Flames at all wouldn't be affected and people who didn't want to use Flames wouldn't be affected either.

[Epsilon82]

To play devil's advocate for HMX, I would guess they didn't want the top 4 scores on each leaderboard to look ridiculously daunting... even though with Pinball/Sync, the top 4 scores are exactly that. :X Maybe they wouldn't have found out Pinball/Sync was as/more broken had Flames not been nerfed? I dunno. *shrug*

Honestly, if they didn't understand the scoring dynamics of their own powerups well enough to be able to make the obvious prediction that Pinball/Sync would be utterly dominant after this change, they should have just left the game alone in the first place.

If, by my own logic, a majority of the people were not affected by the Flame nerf, then conversely, a majority of the people would not be affected by returning Flames to their original value.

Exactly right.

[bigmf]

With all these flowery skulls in this thread, It looks like one insane person arguing with himself.

[Hairlooksgreat]

This would also explain why certain genres and bands get ever-replenishing DLC releases. I read a Reddit thread on /r/RockBand just now about wanting more Radiohead while the Foo Fighters get yet another release... which brings me back to the 211k people who have played "These Days" on Blitz, while most of the other songs hover around 31k total players.

Welcome to marketing/economics in the year 2013.

All this tells me is that 180k people tried the free demo and didn't purchase the game.

[RyRobo]

In a thread where people have claimed that getting high scores is a very important thing to them? No, it isn't.

And the objective may very well be to get the highest score possible. But that doesn't mean it's the only reason to play. I know I don't play Rock Band with an eye for getting the top leaderboard spots. But maybe I'm weird like that.

Not sure why the argument has to be about your specific fun, though. Everybody else's is just as valid.

He called you ignorant and your 'response' was one that was clearly trying to paint the picture that you are unable to view the game from any perspective but your own. We are being considerate of other subsections of the Rock Band community, and the impact on those players has been discussed through and through this thread.

Many of the replies here have been talking about how this effects more than the hardcore user base, that's what started the whole 'statistics' debate, that because the forums aren't representative of the Rock Band community we speculated on what the changes were to those who aren't posting on the forums right now. The majority of the conclusion was that 'They probably didn't even notice'.

If you're fighting for a change Harmonix claims helps level the playing field for all types of gamers, why are you also putting your argument hand-in-hand with trying to alienate leaderboard chasers? Showing that you have no care for this high level play doesn't mean that the groups voice should be showered down on the trait of them simply being leaderboard chasers.

[LuigiHann]

I agree that this thread isn't a representative sample of the Blitz-playing population, but I also posit that this thread represents a fairly accurate sample of the population of people who would notice or care about the point values of power-ups.

That said, thinking for a minute about friend leaderboards, personal high score lists, and score wars, it's certainly possible that casual players will see some effects of this change, without really understanding what changed. I really can't picture a scenario where casual players benefit from the change in any way, except maybe in cases where they're in a score war against a friend who is good enough to use flame notes, and that friend is suddenly getting worse scores... but that again seems to imbalance the game rather than balance it.