Randomly Crap Out Your Opinions Thread

[Onslaught_fei]

1) Post-Hardcore existed in the 80s; alongside hardcore because as the name implied; it took hardcore and progressed it so far it was somewat unrecognizeable. Notice how post-rock does that to rock? Yeah, bad attempt to use post-hardcore on the post-hardcore fan.

Just like Numetal has done with hard rock/metal. Thanks for proving a point, as numetal and hard rock have co-existed and numetal has progressed to where it is somewhat unrecognizeable from its source style.

2) Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park began as rap-rock bands! RAP-ROCK. That means they take hip-hop's rapping and maybe some of it's other ensembles into a rock structure and base. Yeah, debunked you there.

Yet both utilize heavy metal guitar. Name me more rap rock bands beyond those 2, because as far as I can tell, its like picking apart the difference between Goregrind and Deathgrind.

3) Mushroomhead, Slipknot and KoRn have really minor and boy do I mean minor, when it comes to hip-hop; as a big hip-hop enthusiast I honestly can say this without much thought. Also; KoRn always wanted to be a Faith No More clone and the others were trying to... well, heck if I know what they were. But hip-hop wasn't a huge basis with them.

Really? I mean Korn had Ice Cube, Tre Hardson, and Cheech Marin rapping on their albums. Corey Taylor of Slipknot is practiclly rapping in songs like Purity.

4) DSO uses swing jazz in their progressive metal music, yet they aren't "jazz-metal" so that whole one influence makes a genre isn't a good base for your debate.

Progressive encompasses the usage of jazz by terminology. Bands like Cynic and Opeth have professed their love for jazz and their incorporation into their writing.

[Gowienczyk]

Yet both utilize heavy metal guitar. Name me more rap rock bands beyond those 2, because as far as I can tell, its like picking apart the difference between Goregrind and Deathgrind.

I yet to hear Iron Maiden, Axel Rudi Pell, etc. guitar tone/structure in Linkin Park, sorry. Other rap-rock/rapcore? Rage Against the Machine... I guess Hot Action Cop and a few others. It's not a very dominant or relevant genre.

Really? I mean Korn had Ice Cube, Tre Hardson, and Cheech Marin rapping on their albums. Corey Taylor of Slipknot is practiclly rapping in songs like Purity.

I don't remember a lot of songs that utilized this; unless it's used on a record as a whole it really isn't very determinative to the style, imo.

Just like Numetal has done with hard rock/metal. Thanks for proving a point, as numetal and hard rock have co-existed and numetal has progressed to where it is somewhat unrecognizeable from its source style.

Nu-Metal has not progressed hard rock. Hard Rock has not been artistically enlightened or pushed beyond the limits. All Nu-Metal did was help urbanize hard rock (which other bands outside the subculture had been doing since the late eighties).

Progressive encompasses the usage of jazz by terminology. Bands like Cynic and Opeth have professed their love for jazz and their incorporation into their writing.

Bah! Stop being you.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Can you two stop before this thread gets locked?

[Gowienczyk]

Can you two stop before this thread gets locked?

The debate isn't argumentative or immature so it won't.

Friendly Debate never hurt anybody.

[Onslaught_fei]

I yet to hear Iron Maiden, Axel Rudi Pell, etc. guitar tone/structure in Linkin Park, sorry. Other rap-rock/rapcore? Rage Against the Machine... I guess Hot Action Cop and a few others. It's not a very dominant or relevant genre.

Heavy Metal guitar is simply accomplished by downtuning and distortion. I mean, we can pick apart the difference between a death metal tone, power metal tone, or a groove metal tone but theyre all downtuned and distorted.

I don't remember a lot of songs that utilized this; unless it's used on a record as a whole it really isn't very determinative to the style, imo.

The first 3 Korn albums had lots of hip hop, as Davis has come to say that he was inspired by "NWA and Public Enemy" They have rap covers, scat vocals, guest rappers all mixed in with the groove metal tone.

Nu-Metal has not progressed hard rock. Hard Rock has not been artistically enlightened or pushed beyond the limits. All Nu-Metal did was help urbanize hard rock (which other bands outside the subculture had been doing since the late eighties).

I mean, really post-thrash dumbed thrash down and nuprog well... imo kinda dumbed down version of 70s progressive rock tbh. I think youre avoiding the point I was making.

Bah! Stop being you.

Ah but come on, I like keeping it interesting. Before you and a few others showed up it was quite boring and I had little to debate ;p

[Gowienczyk]

Blah! But debates give me headaches after awhile. Haha, but I can see where you are coming from and your counterpoints are lovely; and I'm glad I've spiced this dull forum up, then!

> Heavy Metal guitar is simply accomplished by downtuning and distortion. I mean, we can pick apart the difference between a death metal tone, power metal tone, or a groove metal tone but theyre all downtuned and distorted.

The variants of Post-Hardcore are all downtuned/distorted as well. But I really don't see the metal distortion in bands like Linkin Park (I can see it in bands like KoRn and Mudvayne, I guess.)

> I mean, really post-thrash dumbed thrash down and nuprog well... imo kinda dumbed down version of 70s progressive rock tbh. I think youre avoiding the point I was making.

Man, do I really hate the term nu-prog. Also, I don't know about this post-thrash business, unless you are referring to crossover thrash or groove thrash....

EDIT: Wooooo! 3K posts!

[Onslaught_fei]

Linkin Park: (Yes, there is DBZ AMVs) Give each clip 30 seconds and youll see what I mean by metal guitar tone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UilRCddbr3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3MZDZlghUw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKry3R8J2mQ

Post-thrash as in Pantera, Machine Head, Lamb of God, etc...

I mean, I honestly could be arguing why numetal is not a genre as well, I have no personal investment either way. Its a skill I learned in college: give me a subject and tell me to argue its points and Ill try my best. In the end I feel like Im only making a mockery of musical genres, as I always feel like I usually end up modifying what I actually feel. (Half the time I dont necessarily agree with what Im saying, tbh)

[Rockbandfan23467]

Post Thrash and Groove Metal are the same, more or less. Correct?

[Onslaught_fei]

Post Thrash and Groove Metal are the same, more or less. Correct?

Yeah, interchangable.

[instantdeath999]

Currently debating if I should read the last few pages...